I read the infamous thread by Biggie the other day and even made a comment or two. Soon after, Thursday to be exact, we made a trip to the zoo in Columbus Ohio. They have a new exhibit called The Polar Frontier which houses caribou, arctic fox, polar bears and alaskan brown bears.
Now on to my point. While looking at the two rather large alaskan browns a misinformed as I now like to refer to him as made the comment that "some people hunt these just for a furry rug." Rather than start the debate and surely losing confrontation I pretended to ignore his comment and slink off to the next exhibit. For once my wife was proud of me for not opening my mouth. But I have to ask, did I do the right thing? I feel as though I missed an opportunity to properly educate someone as to the importance of hunting?
IMO, it would have been pretty difficult to change their mind. I'm like you..better to keep my mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.
you can't argue some people into wisdom.
" I doubt it, as the saying goes" It's like teaching a pig to sing.... Wastes your time and only annoys the pig"
It all depends on the time and place. The thing is, yes, there are people who would shoot a bear just for the rug. In that, the guy isn't 100% wrong. But if he had said all hunters were like that, then yes, I would have said something. Remarks from people that can go either way, I don't usually challenge them. They might just be opposed to trophy hunters. And that's fine with me; I see their point there. But there's a world of difference between someone who eats what they shoot (bears can be eaten, after all) and someone doing it just to cross off a line on his SuperWhackaSlamMasterBangBoom World O' Huntin' Trophy Miser checklist. I've known people who made remarks like that guy but totally understand people who hunt deer and eat those deer.
There are people who are getting a very warped idea of what hunting is. We can thank the hunting rags and gun rags for that. Look at the covers of those magazines sometime and put yourself into the mindset of someone who's gathering information on which to base an opinion. Those peoples' minds can be changed.
Then there are people who are going to be against hunting no matter what. "Oh, what's that? You're an Inuit hunting for meat? Tough. You'll have to grow carrots." Those peoples' minds cannot be changed, because they are firmly entrenched in DogmaLand and have bought E tickets for every ride in the place.
There are times and places for discussing things. The fact is, the guy who hunted the bear for a "furry rug" probably contributed more to the preservation of the bears than the guy who made the comment. But it would take more time and understanding than most people have or are willing to spend when they're looking at an exhibit at the zoo.
Yup.
You did the right thing, especially in a public place, full of animals no less. He surely would have gotten loud and used the setting to make himself seem the Hero. I've found that I can generally tell within seconds if a person is at all open to debate, or just so locked into a position it's just useless. I was driving a very nice older woman to a dentist appt. last week thru some country and I mentioned a Bear sighting right near us recently, and a reference to hunting. She went off on a rant about how people are a scourge on the planet, and any animal is better than humans etc. It was quite shocking, and more of what I'd expect from a product of our current educational system. I smoothly turned the conversation in another direction. No point talking to that one. On the other hand I was driving a gentleman to the Airport recently, a man from one of our affluent suburban areas. I pointed out some wildlife and made a subtle reference to bowhunting. Well, it turns out his town is presently debating allowing bowhunting as the Deer herd is out of control. He was clueless, but very open minded. I explained the difference between gun and bowhunting. methods of bowhunting, and even how an arrow/broadhead kills. The other side even had the folks there believing arrows would be shot skyward, and ricochets would have arrows flying all over the neighborhood. As usual the truth never works well for the other side. Anyway, when we finished he said I had convinced him to vote for it, and the clincher was the concern and respect for the animals that came out in my speaking. They had convinced many of these people that we are just mindless killers. I felt good about that one. You were wise to hold back on that one. Gotta Pick your Fights.
I personally would have pointed out the cruelty of plucking animals from their habitat and locking them up in exhibits so people can gawk at them. I would have asked him how he felt about that.
Then had he pointed out the conservation efforts of zoos (of course most of the animals you mention are not endangered) I would have used that as a opening to point out how hunters are some of the most important conservationists...etc.
I would say you did the right thing hard to win. I got an Email last week from a buddy about a bumpper sticker his brother seen out west.(Hunters you should be ashamed of yourselfs killing live animals for the meat , why don't you go to the grocery store and buy your meat where nothing gets killed) :dunno: :dunno:
As Tsalagi pointed out I wasn't sure if by some people the guy meant all hunters or some hunters. So it was a statement that could have went either way.
Bowmarks, I actually have a newspaper clipping of that exact statement saved on my computer.
Bowmarks posted about this bumper sticker:
"(Hunters you should be ashamed of yourselfs killing live animals for the meat , why don't you go to the grocery store and buy your meat where nothing gets killed)"
Maybe they think the animals die of natural causes and then they're turned into meat. "Welp, Junior, Ol' Persnickity had a nice life and lived to a grand ol' age. Went out to feed 'im today, and he'd done passed away in his sleep. Called up the hot dog people and they come out to get him. The shoe people come out to get his hide. I reckon in a week, we'll be wearing Ol' Persnickity and we'll be seeing him at the county fair over yonder to the corn dog stand. Hope they have them jalapeno poppers again this year..."
You did the right thing.
I guess all that really matters is...Do you think you did what was right? It sounds like your answer is yes, and for the most part, everyone here would have done the same thing.
The fella was right.How many people hunt them for the table? He may have been a dyed in the wool hunter who just didnt like the idea of killing a brownie for a rug.I would love to hunt one and if I ever do which is unlikely due to finances I doubt Id eat much of it.
Few discussions of this sort would end up good when you are in a zoo.
The only living Grizzly I have ever seen was in a cage at a county fair. His cage was inside a tent, and he would push his head into the roof of his cage so he could peer through the opening in the canvas behind him for a glimpse of the outside.
The most cruel thing I`ve ever seen.
My wife had seen him first and tried to talk me out of going to see him.
People look at a "furry rug" as something cruel, but accept an animal such as a grizzly in a ten by ten cage as being ok. Nothing to discuss, because there is no basis for logic.
You did fine. SOME hunters do just kill for the heck of it. He didn't say all. Beyond that, he was there with his family(I assume) and that is not the time for such discussions unless He persues it.
He was right, some people do kill bears just for the rug
Others kill bears for the rug + the challenge
Others kills bears for the rug + the challenge + the meat
And so on and so forth.
The reasons we pursue game are different for each person, and within animal classes. Don't assume that the reason you hunt/harvest/kill is the same reason someone else hunts/harvest/kills.
It would be difficult to let it go, but if there were other people around, especially if the fellow had family with him, you did the right thing. A man will sometimes go to crazy lengths to save face in front of the wife and kids.
I know that if my family had been with me and they knew I heard the uniformed generalization they would say uh-oh and pray I would let it go. However, I would have likely countered that most hunters care for and support wildlife far more than those who put it in this cage.
A friend of a friend (both hunters) asked me about a certain kind of shoulder-mounted arrow-shooting contraption in a fast-food restaurant this past February....he should have known better and in fact I think he did.
I would have given them a friendly smile and said "not these ones".
Then, depending on how they reacted, I might have added something along these lines "we have a lot of bears where I live and the people really like the meat".
But, only you know the situation you were in.
You did the right thing but, like you, it would be REALLY hard not to say anything.
I've had unpleasant discussions out in the public defending hunting, it's not pretty.
Ignorant people will always assume they know more than you, especially in public where their "wisdom" can be displayed. :banghead:
you did the right thing.
Yeah I've had to do the same thing. It's tough to swallow..Live to fight another day. Good job on keeping your cool..
It really depends on how well you think you could have represented your view. I believe most people aren't able to debate a point well, regardless of the point. It's best they avoid it.
It is very difficult to ad lib a debate. Some truly talented people can do it. Most of us can't.
i believe you would have just wasted precious time with your family, and passing on to them the truth about our beloved sport.
QuoteOriginally posted by BOWMARKS:
I would say you did the right thing hard to win. I got an Email last week from a buddy about a bumpper sticker his brother seen out west.(Hunters you should be ashamed of yourselfs killing live animals for the meat , why don't you go to the grocery store and buy your meat where nothing gets killed) :dunno: :dunno:
Scary part is these same clueless people vote.....
yes and no, the place for the debate should be correct or would be surrounded by liberal's and stoned out of the place. As, already said, his statement was all false. However, likely is not eduated on what all it takes just to have the oppurtunity to get the "Rug". Few years ago, I was at a zoo, and we was looking at some white tail deer and a lady made a similar comment. I stood next to her and her husband and asked what she meant by her statement? She said that alot of people go out and just shoot one on the weekend and take the skin and leave the rest. I asked where they was from and if they hunted or did any outdoor activities, then asked how she knows this is true? They were from northern illinois, and had read an account in a newspaper of them catching a guy, Poaching. I then explained in calm manner that yes, it is unfortantly true some people do still poach and explained the differance between poaching and legally hunting. We went and got a coffee and ended up sitting and discussing hunting for awhile and though not expet, and told them. I explained that I had been bowhunting whitetails for 25 years and some of my experiances, good and bad with the game and hunters, the history, the challange we face in trying to harvest the game, and that most hunters aren't Rambo out there killing everything. I threw out the usual stats of auto accidents, the trial made on trying to eliminate hunting and mangaement. After what I couldn't believe 2 hours, I had made two new friends and they became more informed and educated. matter of fact this last year her and her husband came down and went out with me hunting. They had a good time and really got to feel the primal instinct in us all as we had four different deer come up within 30 yards of us (I purposely set my blind up to I couldn't get a shot and not ruin the area for me, for there experiance). Afterward, they said how much fun they had and the rush they felt in seeing the deer and asked why I didn't take one. I then explained my ethics and limited range and they both was really glad and happy at the expericance. few weeks went by and they emailed me about perhaps trying to hunt this coming year. It can happen, As the campaign slogan said we can change, not in that way, but we can change there mentality. Not all of them, but like they crept in the media and politics, we can do it one at a time. When I have these debates with them, I always ask, where do you get your info? where you from? What do you base it on? Do you do any outdoor activity? These few questions seem's to give me the tools to lever them into understanding the total impact good ethical hunters have not only on the game, but envirorment, economics and way of life.
Early in my career I helped landowners improve their property for wildlife. From time to time a landowner supposed there wasn't any wildlife on the farm because 'the hunters had killed it all.' I always got a kick out of touring the property with the landowner and showing them animals or sign of same (tracks, nests, rubs, -- you know the drill). Some landowners don't even get out on their property, especially in the wilder corners.
I remember a telephone call I received once. The caller complained about all the poachers (poachers and hunters are the same to many non-hunters) dumping deer along the roadside. I asked the caller why she thought these were poached deer. She said it was obvious because the heads were missing from the deer. Of course I explained to the caller that these deer were road-kills and that the heads had been removed (whether legal or not) by folks who wanted to keep the antlers.