Ok guys, i want a full explanation of how to use the KME to sharpen the Grizzly! I may get some of them to try this year as they now offer them in left bevel and i shoot left wing feathers religiously! I want to know what Diamond hone is used, everything...
Go to Kustom King website they have a video for knife and broadhead sharpeners click on KME.Aloha Ron
Hi Travis,
The first point I'd like to make clear is that both our sharpeners (knife or BHD) are honing tools, not grinding tools, and an "out of the pack" Grizzly is far from ready to be honed. The only stone I've ever seen that was up to the task ...had a motor hooked up to it. You'll need to file them before either sharpener will work. Some guys skip the file and use 80 grit wet/dry automotive sandpaper on a piece of plate glass to set the bevels but, even this is pretty labor intensive. If you're even decent with a file, then that's the way to go. Once the bevels have been set either sharpener will work to get them tuned.
The first thing you'll need is a radius tooth body file (8-9 tpi) or the sandpaper and glass. I'm sure there will be more questions so let's start there.
Ron
Ron,I recently got a DMT Diasharp hone,3"X8",XX coarse,120 mesh and use it with the KME broadhead sharpener.It rips.It establishes that bevel pretty fast,then I go to 220 grit sandpaper and work on through to 2000 grit.
After doing the first one,I decided to back off on the 120 mesh diamond hone just before I got a burr.By the time I got the 120 scratches out of the first one and finished it,I lost 14 grs.The second one,I stopped with the 120 short of getting a burr and by the time I got the 120 scratches out,the burr was there.The second Grizzly only lost 3 grs.
I get a much more consistent edge by using the hone rather than a file.I just am not consistent enough with the file and that cause to much time evening things up when I switch to the KME.Once the 120 diamond hone gets that bevel,each successive grit only takes a few strokes and it goes very fast.
The finished edge is dead flat and true,the full length, and you can see your reflection in it.To resharpen one that has been shot,should take a bare minimum of work as the KME broadhead sharpener should put it right back on the stone exactly at the right angle.
Ron,
What do you mean by "setting the bevel"? I thought he new Grizzly's were already at the optimum 25 degrees?
I just bought one of your knife sharpeners and am not having much luck with the Grizzly. Maybe this is why?
I'm with BearBaiter, looking for a detailed start to finish process for getting these "scary sharp". Thanks!
The (12) Grizzly 160gr. broadheads I just purchased from Braveheart Archery had the 25-degree bevel. You can visually see the difference from the previous models manufactured.
I have the deluxe sharpening kit from KME...I just haven't worked on the final edge yet.
The bevel is close to 25 degrees but it isn't ground all the way to the fine edge.You have to take the entire surface of the bevel in a little more till the sharp edge is there.It is hust too much work to do by a regular stone.The bevel is a lot better than the old ones but the edge isn't there yet.
Thanks JimB. While I have sharpened a few on the machine, I haven't got chance to sharpen any of the new Grizzlies by hand yet but, that's what I had heard...better than they used to be but still tough.
I have one of the DMT XX-Coarse diamond hones too and with the older grizzlies it still took me a very long time to get the bevels set.
My wife just got one of the new HD Flip video cameras and a real start to finish "How to" is gonna require some video. Gimme a couple days to figure this new camera out and I'll try to shoot a step by step for everyone this weekend.
Ron
That would be awesome. Thanks Ron!!!
A video would be great- I have had good success with the A&H heads with the KME system.
Bill
Ron, Any update on your instructional video? Thanks!
Yea Butchie,
We shot the intro and file work but I'm pulling my hair out trying to get it uploaded/saved/edited. Dang computers!!! :help: Thanks,
Ron
I have a question. Why do you fellas buy an unfinished broadhead to begin with?
I WILL NOT EVER BY ANY GRIZZLY BROADHEADS AGAIN...!!!!...It is like buying a unpainted car...A gun without ammo..I finally got mine sharp enough to hunt with...Too many other broadheads that are sharp enough out of the box..or you can get sharp in 10 minutes with just a couple of stones,,,
No doubt about it that Grizzlies out of the package are a pain in the neck to sharpen. But....when you do get one sharpened correctly.....it's done. If it gets dull all it takes is a little touch up like any other BH but way better.
I sharpen all my own broadheads. I would sharpen them even if they came sharp from the factory. You must touch up your heads during the hunt to keep that perfect edge. Anyone who doesn't check and touch up their heads doesn't understand sharp. When you carry around your arrows in any kind of quiver for a few days things happen. Gary
I can't wait to see video of getting grizzlies super sharp. I'm sure that we will be able to translate the coming knowledge to work with other sharpening systems.
Here's a link to an earlier thread that shows a jig for setting the bevel. I can't imagine anything easier and it will be quick, too.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=060487#000000
Finishing the edge from here will be easy.
Trad-man, personally, I see no purpose for a hunt ready broadhead. Broadheads need to be shot before being hunted with and are going to need to be sharpened after that. For the mfg to sharpen the broadhead costs his time and my money and is a waste of both. JMHO
We all look at things from our own perspectives. Sharpening broadheads is a fundamental part of my hunt prep and means as much to me as choosing my own stand/hunt site and making my own arrows. It is a part of the journey. The more of myself that goes into my hunt, the more personal confidence and satisfaction I receive from it. Sagebrush and I think a lot alike.
Rick
I don't mine sharping stuff,mater of fact I like doing it,just do not like the exra work with a grizzly head...figured out you need a second bevel on them made a diffrence..we need the sharpested head possible when hunting .I make my own broadhead covers to keep them sharp when in quiver..SOME GUYS JUST NEED A EASIER WAY ...
Ron and JimB,
You both mentioned using sand paper to hone grizzlies. I have a KME broadhead sharpener, but none of my whetstones are wide enough to handle the long grizzlies. Extra wide whetstones are pretty expensive, so the idea of using sandpaper sounds attractive (cheaper) to me. I have two questions:
Ron - Why the need for a piece of plate glass?
JimB - Do you use other grits between 220 and 2000?
Thanks!
P.S. - Ron, still hoping to see your video.
boog21,
The plate glass is used because it's a flat surface. I stopped at a local glass place and asked for a 12x12 square and they looked around for a scrap piece - no charge.
I started using this system to get my Grizzly bevel correct. I start with 100 grit and progress to 180, 320 and finish with 600. I know I could get a better mirror finish with finer but 600 is good enough for me. Works good.
Boog,
Yea me too. I just found out that my brother in law has done some youtube videos so I'm gonna see if he can do the shoot and help me download/edit/publish it. I haven't forgot about it, I just don't know how to do the techie stuff. It's driving me nuts too!
We use a piece of plate glass under the sandpaper because you need a perfectly flat surface to work on and if you soak a piece of wet/dry sandpaper in the sink for a couple minutes, the water makes the paper stick to the glass without needing to use glue. As for grits, start very coarse like 80 grit. Stay with the coarsest paper till you raise a burr. Then you can quickly progress though as many more grits as you like or need. I'll typicaly use 80, 120, 220, 320, 600, 1000, 1500. Then make sure the broadhead and sharpener are completely dry and strop both sides of the blade a piece of cardboard, about 15 passes per side or till you the burr is totally gone.
These pics were sent to me by Bill Howland of Brackenbury Custom Bows. Bill uses the sandpaper/glass technique exclusivly and goes to at least 2000 grit and sometimes 3000.
(http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/KMEsharp/BillHGrizz1.jpg) (http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo352/KMEsharp/BillHGrizz2.jpg)
Ron
Oh yea, If you're even decent with a file, using a good radius tooth body file is still a much faster way to get the bevels set. Then go to the stones or wet/dry sandpaper to finish up.
Ron
QuoteOriginally posted by JimB:
The bevel is close to 25 degrees but it isn't ground all the way to the fine edge.You have to take the entire surface of the bevel in a little more till the sharp edge is there....The bevel is a lot better than the old ones but the edge isn't there yet.
There it is, JimB's got it dead on.
Get the bevel, get the burr, work the burr 'just off', then strop.
I spoke with Ron just a few days back and he stated a file is needed
to remove the rest of the metal
to establish the burr, while maintaining
the bevel (or creating your own degree bevel).
That said, I just received some 200 grain El Grandes, they look
like they're
almost there with an edge, not quite, but close.
Supposedly much better than the older ones, so that's good news.
Those old Bear Razorheads and Wensel Woodsman heads look better everyday. Razorsharp in a couple of minutes and kill everything I have an opportunity to shoot. Love my KME and have no problem sharpening knives and broadheads to shave.
Not trying to discourage the use of the KME system, as it is one fine piece of sharpening equipment. BUT, it seems to me that most folks here are making the proverbial "Grizzly" mountain out of a mole hill. It appears to me the folks that have trouble with the file is they simply cannot hold the file straight. They keep "resetting" the angle with every stroke of the file. Before long the only thing they have accomplished is taking 3/32" of metal off one one side and having NO edge.
I place my 13" coarse tooth (8 teeth per inch) file flat in a vice and stroke the Griz the full length of the file. Usually by the 5th or 6th stroke the angle is set. Then all it takes is a few more strokes with an 8" fine toothed Mill Bastard to achieve a fine wire edge (about the size of a hair). A couple of very light strokes and and the wire edge comes off. A few strops on a piece of leather and the edge is hair popping sharp. It's just that simple folks. I fail to see the reason for packing all that "stuff" when you go hunting.
hey Sharpster Ron,
with the sandpaper and KME jig, are you push, push pulling or just dragging back like the cardboard stropping ?
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=060487#000000
I built this jig but I use a file instead of the sander, takes about 2 minutes per head to set the bevel. After that I just use my wheels to get the burr off and I'm good to go.
boog21,sorry,I missed your question.I have large 220 and 325 grit diamond stones so I go from there to 400,600,1000,1500,2000.Any hard ,flat and true surface should work but I lay my paper on the 3"x8" diamond hone,which basically is a 3/8" thick steel bar.
I have used crocus cloth after the 2000 and also cardboard stropping.2000 grit is mighty fine.It sounds like a lot of steps but keep in mind that after the bevel is well established,it only takes several strokes with each successive grit and that goes very quickly.The KME,keeping that constant angle,takes all the fight out of it.
I just picked up some sand paper and a piece of glass to give another try with the Grizzly El Grandes.....
Here's the results:
IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!
I started with 60 grit and the KME broadhead sharpener... I use a marker to make sure its even...
I dont count strokes i just go until all marker is worn off..
ill do this about 4 time with 60grit, no oil or water, pushing not pulling motion...
Then before i finish with 60grit I flip it over and pull lightly about 7-8 times to get the bevel off. Dont do it too much or you will round it off.... Trust me!!! When you touch the blade you are gonna feel it....
Then I go to 150 grit... same as above....
Then Course stone, Medium/Course, Fine, then cardboard....
On the stones Im using oil....
As you go finer and finer use less and less preasure...My test for sharpness is I run it across my nail if it shaves my nail im good.... And the best thing is when I look at the edge its even and factory looking...
One side from start to finish will take about 20m. Dont be too concerned about having a shaving edge with the 60grit, then just keep going, you will feel the difference with each progression.
Ron has invested more time and patience with me than most parents would (and he's a kid compared to me)and the one thing that he's hammered into my thick, German head is that you don't quit on the most coarse grit you're using until you raise that wire on the opposing side...full length.
Then you start to polish and remove the wire edge.
If it's not pretty darned near super sharp on the coarsest grit, it won't get any sharper, just more finely polished.
Of course, I mentally questioned that and prolonged both my tutelage and learning curve! :(
:deadhorse: and thanks to mods for adding that GUE, cause it fits being hard headed perfectly!