Like Howard & Fred, does anyone do it the "Hard Way" anymore ,, No High Fences, No Ranches, No Bait Piles, No "My only private Land" Spot, ,,, just hunt Hard ,, the way it should be ?? Anyone ?? It's all I know, and Gratifying ...
I didn't know there was another way ?
Sure, I hunt public land and most of the time never get a deer, or see one. But I love being out there to try at least. I makes me feel good inside to hunt with my recurve and try, try, try! I do not have any private land to hunt on or anywhere special to go.
Some don't like him and I have a few reservations of my own about some of his shots and shot placement, but Tred Barta. I admire him for his unwillingness to hunt over bait piles, feeders, or even a ground blind. Though that has changed due to him being paralyzed now. His drive and determination was one of the things that drove me to take up traditional bowhunting over the compounds I owned.
Come to the Ohio Traditional Deer Hunt we have annually if you want to hunt the hard way. You need to understand everything about deer hunting/woodsmanship to get a deer out of there.
Don't get me wrong, the deer population in the area is VERY good, but you better know your basics to get at 'em. This is a big swath of public land. Read some maps, look for funnels etc.... or go home empty handed. We usually have a good time! Most of us ground hunt, but I am finally taking a climber this year
I have been thinking about that lately. . . there are other popular sites where "foodplots," "food attractants," etc. comprise 30%+ of the posts.
I am not really against plots etc. I really am NOT!! But- it sure seems that is becoming an entire way of hunting now; get deer to come to you on your private "habitat management."
I could be wrong and just getting older, but I wonder if there is something being lost in all of this.
... a good bow ...and a few arrow... and a shady spot in the woods is enough for me. If I put blood on the ground then its a great meal or two. "LESS IS MORE" !!! If you know what I mean...If not then I feel sorry for you ... good hunting my friends ...Jeff
QuoteOriginally posted by KSdan:
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I am not really against plots etc. I really am NOT!! But- it sure seems that is becoming an entire way of hunting now; get deer to come to you on your private "habitat management."
I could be wrong and just getting older, but I wonder if there is something being lost in all of this.
I hear you... I like food plots as they improve the carrying capacity on out timberland pine forests ... This means healthy does, healthy yearlings and healthier bucks...
But I hardly ever hunt a foodplot... Why? Where I have been the deer may use them, but I have always had better luck hunting the draws, the creek bottoms and the terrain funnels, escape corridors between the bedding areas and the food sources... FYI... The main food sources tend to be the mast crops... Foodplots pay dividends in the spring and late fall early winter it seems to me...
I have my own ground to hunt but I still think I do it the hard way. I hunted at least 50 days last year. Both the deer I shot were in sub zero temps. The day I shot my buck the wind was blowing around 40 miles an hour and it was -2, it was out of a tree stand. Just because you have private ground doesn't mean you don't do it the hard way.
The last 2 years on your antelope hunts we had to shovel a foot of snow so we could set our tents down. You learn real quick to put your next days clothes in the sleeping bag with ya.
All the suffering adds up to great memories.
when you do it the hard way your entire life its not an issue at all.i would never hunt a fenced in animal.i'll quit hunting first so my memories wouldnt be soured from it.tred will always be remembered for doing it the hard way.
Slasher- Do you really think we had a problem with carrying capacity prior to this food plot marketing and new hunting strategy (10-12 years now)? Is this the "real" reason people put in food plots?
Will this type of trend be good for the future of hunting? Will it be good for kid down the road? How about the historic reality that hunting was sustained by a rural/suburban middle to lower class family structure? Can the average family man really afford land, equipment, and food plots?? Tradition?? Conservation?? Sustainable? ???????? :confused:
Not trying to argue- just not convinced.
Dan in KS
I hunt all public land here in Mississippi.
I hunt about 90% of the time from the ground and most of that time is spot and stalk.(without much luck)
It's kinda tough and I get made fun of alot but it's a blast!! The thrill of trying to get close to an animal is as much of my hunt as an actual harvest. :)
On the ground still hunting or spot and stalk are the only ways I hunt. There is no other way for me.
Inside 20 yards, with two sticks and a string is "The Hard Way".
Doesn't matter if you are on the ground, in a stand, around corn or a mineral block, near a food plot, private land, public land, fence or no fence.
I like the "hard way" but I don't consider it the hard way. I have always hunted public land and find that it is most productive when you learn to hunt it right.
I hunt hunters. That may sound funny, but the average gun hunter walks into the woods at daylight or 10 minutes or so earlier. I have stands on funnels and escape routes leaving popular areas. I show up early and let hunters push deer over me.
I like to hunt draws, ridges, and all of the other stuff also, but in gun season my whole stratgey changes. I usually take 4 or 5 deer a year, it works.
If i wanted to shoot a fenced animal, I would go to my pasture and shoot a cow. That is not who I am.
Hey, Adam, good question. Some thoughtful responses. I am concerned that even in "traditional archery" circles, there is this trend to apply more and more technology to bows that are considered traditional just because they lack wheels, the latest and greatest camo, etc, etc.--anything else pretty much goes. Other than no wheels, what distinguishes our approach from that of the techno hunters? If wheels are the chief difference, then we are not really much different at all.
David, I hunt with a guy that hunts with a wheel bow. Can't say he doesn't do it the hard way. It's not easy keeping up with him on a 2 week hunt. I don't think the kind of bow you shoot has anything to do with doing it the hard way. It has to do with pushing yourself as far you can or a little further, I guess you would call it stubbornness. A lot of you might look down on me for saying this but I don't consider myself a Traditional archer I'm a bowhunter. If something would happen that I that I couldn't shoot my trad bows anymore I'd have no problem picking up a compound. I just read a article in Bugle magazine about the same thing.
I didn't know those other ways were called hunting. I thought that was called cheating
I've hunted nothing but public land for the last 30yrs or so. The land I hunt grows all natural deer...no baiting, supplements, food plots, etc.
Until the last few yrs. since I've been hunting Shawnee National Forest...lots of agriculture, but I don't hunt the edges I go real deep in the woods to get away from hunters. I hunt the thick bedding edges most of the time.
If it's brown it's down..so any old deer you kill has been shot at an hunted since it lost it's spots.
I just like to hunt these deer purely for the satisfaction I get on the few times I get lucky.
It'll be all homemade flintlocks and stobought recurve this yr.
Except for the public vs. private land I grew up hunting the way you describe. I grew up where the fences and baiting were illegal. That helped form my ethic, so I don't hunt those ways. I don't own the place I hunt, I hunt with permission from the farmer. As one who has hunted someone else's private land all my life I can attest it is not easy. I'm not talking about the hunting, I'm talking about gaining and just as importantly keeping the access. The care and feeding of one's landowner is a vital thing to maintain a place to hunt. It would be much easier for me to drive 40 miles down the road and hunt public land. I could go in by boat and avoid most of the public pressure. Most states in the eastern US are public land poor - we have only 5% public land in KY. If I lived in the west where 50-67% of the land is public I doubt I'd ever step foot on private land -- wouldn't need to. This year, after hunting the same place for about 9 years I had to lease the place I hunt. Some fellows from a body shop approached the landowner and offered to pay his property taxes. The landowner knew and trusted me but the money was appealing. So, rather than start from scratch (again) I ponied up $1,500 (I couldn't have done just a few years ago") to keep my spot. Of course someone who works hard, saves a long time, and then makes the sacrifices to buy his or her own hunting spot is also doing something quite difficult -- too hard for me.
I guess the 'hard way' is somehow in the mind of the hunter; my version goes as follows:
Elk- I hunt public land, alone. I use a 4 wheeler to get to access points: wilderness boundaries, roadless areas, or places where I don't want to be on one of the noisy things. All my hunting is on foot, and each year the mountains get steeper. I average several miles a day, hoofing it. Maybe that is why I am seldom bringing home elk meat, but that can also be a good thing, since when I get one, I have always packed them out on my back.
Antelope- Public land, spot and stalk. This is another good way to not have to pack one out.
Deer- I have a private land honey hole for whitetails, but hunt them from the ground. Nothing wrong with tree stands, I would just rather be on terra firma. When I hunt mulies, it is public land spot and stalk.
My own belief is that if you pay your dues long enough, success will happen. If hunting over a feeder is what you consider the hard way, I won't argue, but I have tried it, and it didn't turn my crank. If I ever head south for hogs, I may not be successful, but I will be spotting and stalking.
I can't help but wonder how many of you have Brittish accents.. :deadhorse:
Todd
My wife and myself bowhunt public land, some of the hardest hunting there is. No bait, fences, just out there enjoying the hunt.........James
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjqaKUwx2MY
Hard enough for ya :readit: :bigsmyl:
Private land hunts are an unfair advatage and exempt from hunting the hard way?????
The hard way? When I gave up a rifle and went to compound I thought that was hard! Now this coming season will be my first trad only season. Hard... heck yeah!!! I will hunt public land (11,000 acres of hardwood river bottoms) and private land, with an invite, usually 5 times per season. The private land has corn feeders and hang on stands. If I take my first traditional kill from here that will be finer than frog hair with me.
Just so I understand..... I work 300 days a year to have the money to make my land payments and taxes. About half my days off are spent working on my place BUT my deer don't count because I didn't hunt them on a free place they was given to me by the government? I must have woke up in the twilght zone
Don't sweat it fellas... We trashy folk are going to have to realize that there are folks about everywhere we will ever go that are always going to be better then us. That's all there is to it.
Even so, I wish with everything I have each and everyone of them the best hunting season ever!
Todd
I plan to hunt on my parents new property but i am not using any blind or stand and no baiting.
I want to do it the traditional way but i feel safer hunting the private land then public land since i am just starting out. I also do not know where the good places to hunt are on public land.
As far as food plots go i see there use and may make one to help care for the deer and help provide a good food source to help them grow nice and big. But i do not want one so i can sit at the edge and wait for them. I want to do more spot and stalk/still hunting then anything else.
wowowo . . . first things first I am pretty sure that even tho we live in the land of the free and the home of the brave that sign going into the public land says Pittman-Robertson on it . . .Nothing in life is free.
Secondly I dont think anyone is saying you private guys dont work for your deer . . . I think the main vibe is that we have to work to find our deer . . . could be wrong, that is just how I feel
I never thought a lot about hard are easy. I hunt the way that gives me the most enjoyment. Thats with a longbow anywhere I can. RC
:help: :rolleyes: Come on hunting season :thumbsup: To many of these cut down threads lately or could it just be the hot weather :laughing:
Personaly, I could care less were everybody hunts or what they hunt with just as long as there out there doing it. I hunt for my self and nobody else.
Tracy
"The hard way" there is nothing easy about hunting whitetail, be it from a tree or on the ground, i believe you have better chances from a tree, but you still have to find a good tree without getting busted. As long as you enjoy being outdoors and hunting with your bow, nothing else matters
Buff- I am ALL FOR a guy who can afford his own land and even put in food plots. I really am FOR IT. I LOVE your videos and even the game you have taken at feeders. Nothing "wrong" in my book. I also have benefited by the complete kindness of many a landowner! Freedom is a wonderful thing. . .
The question that I wrestle with is it seems to me that hunting is shifting from a community tradition of the common man for conservation and the land, to a privilege for the few- much like what happened in Europe.
Believe me- I feel blessed for my days in the sun. . . I just wonder about the coming generation as television and much of the marketing makes hunting look like a "sport" for the few who can afford it.
I could be wrong and just viewing it all from a clouded lens. I am just not sure the trend is going in a healthy direction.
The "hard way" just seems to me to be the historic traditional way that many of us grew up. It is conservation at its best. I just hope we don't now burn up/lose the benefits of that very conservation.
Just my 2C
Dan in KS
I guess it just depends on how and where you grew up. When I was a kid, deer hunting consisted of the whole family showing up at Grandpas house, turning the dogs loose and everyone hitting the brush with shotguns loaded with buck shoot. I was a teenager before I ever saw a rifle other than a .22 . Any legal deer was shot. It was all about the meat. No one ever gave3 a thought to making it "hard". My Dad almost laughed his self to death when I told him I wanted to try to kill a deer with a bow. Deer were meat back then nothing more
Is the cost...or better yet...what people are willing to pay for hunting any different than what has happened to every other recreational activity?
For example, when I see the baseball gear owned and venues played by the 10 year old next door compared to what I had playing ball, I just shake my head. And that boy is not unique by any means from what I see.
People are just willing to come up with the cash and they are not all "rich" people. Just people.
It doesn't matter what I think about how others hunt (or what they think about my hunting) I care about what works for me and what makes me feel worthy of the hunt. The only thing I can't tolerate is the breaking of game laws, whether one agrees with them or not. I've lost two private hunting spots due my intolerance of poaching. By the way, I wish there was a TV program that consisted of episodes where camera's followed some of the folks on this site on a hunt. That would be TV worth watching -- I'm so fed up with the shock and awe self-promoters on most of outdoor TV these days.
Buff- sounds similar to the way I grew up; family, harvest, getting some meat, using many different tools. . .
Custer- 1) exactly the point: Is this about recreation or conservation? 2) I did not intend to suggest anything negative about people being "rich." (As if having riches were bad!) A man who is given riches and wisdom is a blessed and wonderful thing. I personally have benefited from many friends who have been so blessed!!
However- I have talked to many young people getting into hunting who REALLY think they need to drop $1K (minimally) at Cableas or Bass Pro. They also think the only way to hunt is having private land and equipment to draw deer to their property. Just realize that for many of them their ONLY input on hunting is the new hunting television and websites. That is their frame of reference. I had one young such guy I took out who never had taken a deer but was "holding out" for a 150" deer. Good grief- where did he get that idea?!
Bowwild- I sort of know what you mean (I think!) But- I also think it DOES matter what is best for the community. This is not just about me- but living for something beyond me- like handing values and virtue to the next generation. That is what "tradition" is all about- the means/way a culture captures and passes on virtue and values. Without those traditions- what carries forth the virtue?
I just hope we don't lose the essence of what conservation is all about.
Dan
I find it interesting that Adam (the original poster) has not responded to our comments. Was he reeling us in, like they do on talk radio? Stir up the masses with an inflamatory comment or question, and sit back, put your feet up, and enjoy the commotion. I started hunting with a recurve in 1970, tried a compound in the late 80's, and moved back to traditional equipment in 2000. The "Traditional Way" or "Hard Way", as some would call it, is far more satisfying for me, and yes, more challenging, but it is definitely not for everyone. I live to get them close and to make a quick, clean kill. Some prefer the challenge of longer shots and the appeal of technology(compound shooters). I do not. Private land, public land, leased land, makes no difference, just hunt in a lawful manner. If you don't want to hunt over feed in Texas or hunt with a compound bow, don't do it. That is your perogative, but don't pass judgement or look down on those that do. I'm sorry, but that is "elitism" of the highest order. Get the most out of what you do and pass your wisdom and love for archery and bowhunting on to the next generation. If you havn't noticed, we are losing the war. Our numbers are dwindling. If we don't get away from the "my way is the only way" mentality, hunting, as we know it, will cease to exist. With that said, I'm going to go shoot a few arrows. Hunting season is just around the corner, and I've got some pre-season scouting to do as well. :banghead:
KSDan,
What I meant was that I don't take myself so seriously that I would publicly judge another's actions as long as they were legal. I certainly have very strong personal feelings on almost everything archery and conservation. I won't bore folks with a resume but suffice to say I've spent my adult life in conservation, bowhunter education, and now youth archery. I didn't mean to come across like I don't care what others do. I am small in stature and am simply allergic to high horses.
Certain things such as obeying game laws, taking ethical shots, working at recovery, projecting a tasteful image of the bowhunter in public, etc. are important and I agree we owe our "sport" the time it takes to pass the importance of these things on. What I'm not forceful about is judging another's choice to hunt with longbow, recurve, compound (notice I left one out), over bait (where legal), food plots, from trees, the ground, etc.
I agree with you, if we who were brought up in bowhunting and conservation aren't willing to provide guidance to those coming after, who will?
I listened to my newphew talking about hunting the other day. He sounded just like the self-proclaimed "pros" on the tv shows.
Love to hunt public, It's the only way that I can use my conoe and see some big woods.
By the way, if any of your are concerned about archery participation in the future... the tide is turning. The National Archery in the Schools Program is in its 9th year. Last year the Sporting Goods Manufacturing Association reported that archery participation grew 28 times faster in 2008 than in the previous 8 years combined! Through NASP 7.1 million students have been taught archery at their school by their NASP-certirfied teacher. LAst school alone 1.5 million kids went through the program. The program is now in more than 7,500 schools world-wide; 47 states, 4 provinces and 5 countries. In two weeks NEw Brunswick becomes province #5. On August 4th Washington DC school system joins NASP. By the way 56% of NASP teachers say NASP increases a student's interest in bowhunting -- 77% of NASP kids (grades 4-12) have never shot a bow before. NASP will be bigger than Little League baseball in less than 3 years. For more: www.archeryintheschools.com (http://www.archeryintheschools.com)
6,784 students participated in the NASP Nationals in Louisville, KY this past May.
Bowwild- good post. I would guess we agree.
Bill T- good post. Be careful though on passing judgment on those who you judge are passing judgment! Beware of the slippery slope. . . Have fun scouting and shooting :)
I find it interesting that bringing up the discussion about "foodplots" or "compounds vs. trad" seems to take on such a negative connotation. Seems to me it is just a campfire discussion with opinions about how we see things. . . robust debate is a good thing.
Dan
I live on 250 acres and own another 250 acres about 40 minutes away. Nothing came easy, I work on my land with a skidder and powersaw. Not a rich man, just a lucky man. Working a piece of land puts it IN your blood. I love stepping out my back door in the dark of morning and making my way along very familiar trails to sit and wait or still hunt when I've had enough of that.
No bait, no food plots, but I do know travel routes and good spots. Trouble is the deer don't help out much. Getting one on the ground IS the hard way.
Congrats to you Hopewell Tom. I've been in your province twice teaching teachers how to teach archery in schools. Yours was the first of five provinces in Canada to join the National Archery in the Schools Program. Your Dept. of Education runs the program.
Yes sir we do , me and my Dad like to go to Pongo national Wildlife Refuge once or twice a year and bleive me its hunting the hard way .
Hmmm,
This one raised a bunch of hackles. I really fail to see why. Your definition of the hard way is your reality. My definition of the hard way is mine.
I have heard whitetails are hard to hunt. For me Mulies and particularly Blacktails are much harder to hunt. Whitetails can be patterned much easier than the other two. Particularly around crops. That doesn't minimize the skill it takes to hunt them. It is just my view that they are easier to pattern and thus hunt and kill.
I am endlessly amazed at how some take a simple thread stating their view and others take it personally, then others take that personally and the whole thing ballons into your putting me down.
If you don't agree with it post your thoughts but don't take it personal. Frankly, why do you care if someone else "thinks" their way is harder.
I have lots of guys tell me how hard they work to get whitetails, mulies, black bear, elk, etc... every one of them will tell me it was harder than my hunts. I can quote big name hunters who call the west coast mountains where I hunt the hardest elk hunt in the west. I don't bother telling the guys chatting with me their wrong. I just smile, let them think what they want, and keep hunting in what for me is the only way I like to hunt. With a long stick, a sharp stick, and a string in thick brush and steep terrain.
Everything else, and everyone elses opinions don't influence my hunting, my ethics, or my thoughts. To be frank so long as I hunt within my states laws and my own ethics no on elses opinions matter. It is my way, no one else needs to follow my thoughts or beliefs or even agree with them.
To each their own method and manner of hunting within the laws where they hunt. I think we all need to be a bit less touchy and a bit more understanding of others views. America is the place where we all get to have those and for my part every individual is welcome to them. I simply refuse to waste my energy on being offended or frustrated with others when I can spend it being happy and getting ready for hunting season.
the only people that i know that hunts that way are the ones (myself included) that afford to go on guided hunt or hunt on land that you really dont have to hunt on. also i think it has alot to do with the way you where brought up or the way you where trained as a hunter. i dont think i would go on a guided hunt unless it was somewhere where you had to have one.
The "what is traditional" question has never been agreed on so now some want to define the "hard way"?
Sorry - my arm isn't long enough to reach my back for a good pat.
QuoteOriginally posted by AdamH:
Like Howard & Fred, does anyone do it the "Hard Way" anymore ,, No High Fences, No Ranches, No Bait Piles, No "My only private Land" Spot, ,,, just hunt Hard ,, the way it should be ?? Anyone ?? It's all I know, and Gratifying ...
It's funny how history get's changed over the years. Read some of Howard and Fred's writings and you'll see plenty of ranches, bait, and private land. You'll also see countless examples of both men using cutting edge technology for their times, especially by Fred.
QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
I never thought a lot about hard are easy. I hunt the way that gives me the most enjoyment. Thats with a longbow anywhere I can. RC
This statement I agree with whole heartedly!!!!
We have a man, a bowyer of some fame, here in southern michigan. He lives near and hunts a large tract of public land.
While others I know are whinning about the lack of deer and to many hunters on this same tract of public land, he kills some beautiful big bucks. It is about woodsmanship and skill and time spent in the woods :coffee:
Actually one of those "oldtimers" you mentioned use to take a pack string along with "extra" horses on some of his AK hunts for bear.... He had been known to kill a horse on occasion, and use it as a bear bait....
Gene
BUFF said: I didn't hunt them on a free place they was given to me by the government
The government don't give hard working taxpayers anything. We pay for it one way or the other.
The same could be said of food stamps..... OK I will admit I'm Jealous of the folks that live in Wyoming and don't have to lease or own a place to hunt :biglaugh:
at least until winter
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
QuoteOriginally posted by AdamH:
Like Howard & Fred, does anyone do it the "Hard Way" anymore ,, No High Fences, No Ranches, No Bait Piles, No "My only private Land" Spot, ,,, just hunt Hard ,, the way it should be ?? Anyone ?? It's all I know, and Gratifying ...
It's funny how history get's changed over the years. Read some of Howard and Fred's writings and you'll see plenty of ranches, bait, and private land. You'll also see countless examples of both men using cutting edge technology for their times, especially by Fred. [/b]
What Jason said.............
Unlike food stamps the majority of public hunting land is purchased from funds derived from hunting products. I think at present 11% taxes on all gun purchases and other related gear goes to buying and maintaining public land.
Jason / Terry - good job pointing out what all of us old timers knew! The original post made no sense to me at all - would not have responded except for the proper corrections offerred - Thanks <>< <---------------------<<<<<<
Honestly, this whitetail season was probably the hardest season I'll ever have simply because it was my first hunting season ever. Not just with a bow and I had no clue as to what I was doing at first.
I had only been shooting since May of 2009. Switched to a longbow in December. I hunted four different spots from October through December. Three of them totally unfamiliar public land areas where I pretty much had to walk until I found a funnel or an edge. I hunt on the ground from natural cover. I do not own a truck or anything resembling one so I can't get into most places without hiking and getting a deer home isn't fun.
Most of my hunting is done on cold December mornings as that seems to be the only time of year I can dedicate my weekends to hunting.
On the other hand, I work for a University that is located in a small town with a lot of river valleys and woodlands and was able to hunt on their lands from December 19th on while students were home for the holidays. There were only 9 other hunters and the area was large enough for us to avoid each other. Plus, the deer are hungry and not as pressured. That was the silver lining of my season and where I shot my first deer.
Prior to that one I had a couple of really nice chances on public land but it just wasn't right enough to shoot. This year I'll hit the woods with a season under my belt, more time spent at the range, and better areas to hunt.
I've decided to hunt with wooden arrows this year though.
If we are talking small game - I don't think you can get any harder than partridge or squirrels with a bow. I've yet to connect with either yet.
I hunt public land all of the time, and I do not have any private land to hunt on. Most of the time never get a deer, but, I do get to see my share and I love being out there in the fall to enjoy the land, the weather, and God's critters.
I like to hunt with my recurve and to know I have to get close to make a clean kill shot. I like to sharpen my own broadheads and to know that edge is as sharp as it can be and I put it there with my own hands.
I have never hunted over bait piles or feeders, unless you count that corner of that corn field ! OR that big oak !
Around my area of Wisconsin the public land hunt is harder if you want an area where there are not a lot of other hunters. But it is gratifying to put out that extra effort and get away from the others.
With the required efforts, the last couple of years I think my hunting skills have improved and lately I'm getting to get close to more and more deer - but in the last couple of years I'm also losing some of my urge to shoot them. This year I'm taking the digital SLR along for the fall hunt. Maybe I'll get to post some good pictures later this year on the site.
Chinook