Trad Gang

This will be my first season hunting trad, so forgive me if rangefinder is a dirty word here.  I'm a decent judge of distance,, but I'm new to this and really don't want to wound an Elk because of my inexperience.  I'm pretty comfortable shooting out to 25yds but we all know how distance changes out in the field, and I'm worried that I might be off by 5-10 yards in my guessing and wound an animal.  I'm currently looking online but would rather purchase one on tradgang, and I noticed that there are not allowed to be sold.  Again, forgive me if this is the equivalent of soliciting a prostitute in church.. but for my first season I think I might need one,, a rangefinder not a prostitute    :)  
Give me your take, and if you know a good place to get one used and cheap (again, only rangefinders please).
Thanks
Josh

i use one alot. you never can be too prepared. i just have a simple bushnell yardage pro. but i had to buy mine at a local shop....dont think you'll see them on here. either way you are taking a good step in ensuring the most humane kill on the game your after.

yes. . .

OK just teasing

You know. .  many folks worry too much about what is trad and what is bad.  Play the game and get used to what you are doing.  If you think you need a rangefinder, well, get one and use it for a bit.  Terry's rules I guess are that you can't sell one here.  His game, his rules, we are guests.

If you are truly gonna keep your shots tight,  like 20-25 yards or less, you will find that after not so long, you won't mistake by so much that it matters.  Then start leaving it at home or give it to one of your buddies that needs it.

I have used one before and I personally think that by the time I use it the deer is already gone.

I personally advise you to put that money into arrows and just go stump shooting a bunch before season.  Before you know it, you  "won't need no stinkin rangefinder" !

Later
ChuckC

hey  josh if you think you are going to miss or wound get closer ya dont need a range finder unless ya use a wheel bow.  :biglaugh:    :archer2:    :archer2:

Shooting instinctively, you really do not need to worry about yard like you would with a compound that has sights.  If 25 yds and under is your max comfort zone shoot at that distance so you brain does all the calculations.  One good practice method is to get the yardage out of your mind and walk up and down from your target and randomly shoot.  Only shoot one arrow at each area then move to a different location.  After awhile, it will become automatic.  Also, take a walk in the woods with your bow and stump shoot at anything that looks interesting...a pine cone, stump, clod of dirt what ever.  Doing this will in grain those distance into the computer and before you know it it becomes second nature.  Just like throwing a baseball.

Mike

In my opinion, if you use a range finder you will be missing out on one of the greatest advantages as well as a major point of traditional bowhunting.

Give yourself the chance to learn! Stump shoot! Hunt small game!
Limit yourself to very close shots during your first season!

You will not regret it.

I have never used a range finder and I never will.

If it makes you feel more comfortable go ahead and get one. I would bet you can find a used one fairly cheap. Don't worry about what other people think, if you think it will help make a clean shot on a animal it's worth having. I don't use one but I can't see where it's any less traditional than talking and learning about trad stuff on the computer. Use it as a learning aid and then you can get rid of it.

Great decision to switch over to traditional this year! When I shot wheels I shot instinctively then so I have never used a range finder. If you feel like packing one with you this year then do it.

Like ChuckC said, stump shooting is probably the best thing that any of us can do to help us for shooting at game. I always pack a judo or two with me when elk hunting. On the hike back to the truck me and my uncle make it a competition and shoot our way out of the woods. This has helped us a lot and is a bunch of fun.

Good luck this September.

Confidence in your shot is the key!  You shouldn't let go of the string unless you feel certain you are going to hit what you are aiming at. I get my confidence by carrying two carbon (not wood or aluminum) arrows with big rubber blunts, that I have ground to somewhat of a point, (a big ole fat rubber blunt changes your sight picture too much from a broadhead) and constantly shooting during my elk hunts.  If you feel you need the range finder to ensure confidence then by all means use one.  I would suggest borrowing one and go roving.  Shoot one arrow without the range finder and then use the range finder for a repeat shot.  I think you will find the range finder unnecessary in short order for 25 yds and less.  Knowing your point on impact distance has always been a usefull reference for me, but I use the end of my arrow as a reference in aiming.  I suspect you may also be using a reference for aiming if you think a range finder will improve your accuracy.  There is no right or wrong way, but having a known reference to get you focused in a pressure situation has always helped me.  I simplify it in three easy steps. # 1. Hit my anchor.  # 2. Bear down & dial in the sight picture # 3. Let 'r rip
Happy Hunting

Buy what you want. Do what you want.
Doesn't get more traditional than that.
If you're worried about what people think keep it under your hat.

I guess rangefinders are a no no on this site.
They are fine in my book. Darn good tool sometimes.
Sometimes it's better to ask forgiveness than permission. lol    :rolleyes:

You do what you have to in order to feel comfortable and confident.

Do yourself a favor though and try not to get stuck to it or crippled by it.

I know some people who "believe" that they cannot shoot without first ranging the intended target. NOTE: most of these people dont get many animals of win many shoots.

Learn your bow and you for the best results.

There are some gap or split vision shooters that do well with them thoough.

An extremely valuable tool.  I have been in a lot of situations and terrain both hunting and 3D shooting where my subconcious has been completely deceived.  

There are optical illusions that can completely throw the shot off.  If I have to opportunity to add that little bit of information into the equation, I will do it every time.  

Shooting split-vision, I may get more benefit from knowing the range than someone that truly shoots instinctive.  But if anyone is going to shoot from 25-40 yards, there are definate benefits from knowing the range.

Thanks for the input.  At a 3d shoot a few weeks ago I was shooting at an Elk target and between me and the target was a dip in the terrain that you couldn't see until you walked up to it. When taking the shot It looked like 25 yards, and all of the other shooters also thought it was 25. Add 10.  If it were a real elk 5 of 6 six guys who have been doing this for a long time would have wounded the elk.  This was the shot that made me think it might not be a bad idea.  I wouldn't use the rangefinder very much, but in certain difficult situations to judge I thought it might not be a bad idea.  
Thanks for the tips on practicing, I'm pretty much doing all I can to get ready.  Also, I'm shooting "instinctive"
I can't tell you where, but the last few years I've been hunting a monster elk with a compound. (Ok its in Idaho). I think the mojo of switching to a stick should bring him down this year,, just not sure if a rangefinder would decrease my mojo. :)

oxnam, you posted what I was thinking while I was writing.. he's a witch burn him.
thanks

Mojo is yours my friend and yours alone. Nothing can take it from you unless you let it.

What you experienced is exactly why a range finder is beneficial.  Most of the guys that took that shot were seeing the same thing.  Use it when you can but don't screw up a close encounter reaching for the rangefinder instead of the string.

No one has ever accused me of being a witch but don't make me start casting spells around here    ;)  
Where are you at in Idaho?

I have three new trad shooters on a steep learning curve.  I gave them my old Bushnell rangefinder with the following instructions.  Take it stump shooting.  Look at the stump and shoot it instinctive.  Then range the stump, pine cone, etc.....  This will help you understand what 10, 20, and 30 yards look like in varied field conditions.  Once you get comfortable with those distances put the rangefinder away and just shoot.

They can be an invaluable tool or they can be a crutch.  Which one it is for you is totally up to you and how you use it.

If you feel you need one then use one.

Thanks again folks
Oxnam, I'm in Boise, and I hunt up near council. How bout you? I just checked out your new site, can't say I'm ready to shoot birds yet but sounds like fun. Is it hard to use a rangefinder on birds.. just kidding.

Throw it away 95% of the time elk hunting things happen to fast you will never get a chance to use it unless you water hole hunt which I wont . I have seen guys try to use them elk was at 35yd by the time he gets his arrow nocked and bow up the elk is at 20yd

Yes.

I agree elk whiperer, can't use them in action.  I was more thinking of ranging some trees around me to be able to guess better when the action starts. Also, so that I don't have to hike my scent around where the elk may come in, in order to accurately pace out a difficult terrain to judge.

IMHO if you need a range finder to get the distance your to far away to begin with.Get estimated size of the bulls and cut out an elk from cardboard and shoot at it at 20-25yrds and you will mentally know when its to far.Use your riser as a measuring stick,from the rest to on the ground(at the animals feet) to the top of the back and make a mental mark (or a pencil mark).So when you see one(put the rest on the feet), If the back is lower than your mark then he's to far,above the mark he is closer than 25.

Use one--I've been doing this "trad archery" thing since the time that was the only kind of archery we had!  I got a neat Nikon laser range finder to help me just survey my hunting area to get an idea of the lay of the land, so to speak.  By all means, stop worrying about whether something is "traditional" or not.  Back in the day, we never worried about that stuff at all.    I am so weary of that inane argument about wether this or that is "trad".

neat idea ipcjon2, I think I will try that even if I do get a rangefinder.
Thanks

Range finders are not allowed at 3-Ds.  There is a reason for this.  If you have a sighting system based on range then it would be an unfair advantage to those that don't.  You will score  higher. If you are not an instinctive shooter but have a precise aiming system then it would make sense to me to have a range finder for hunting.  Even with a sight if you shoot at a target that you think is 25 yards and it is actually 28 yards you have just missed the vitals and hopefully missed completely with our relatively slow trad equipment.  Josh makes a good point...Van

I've never used a range finder, even during the many yrs I shot wheel bows. I just don't think in terms of how many yards when I'm shooting or practicing.

One wouldn't do me any good now anyway...because from what I read the best way to use it is to range spots in advance and there's no way I could remember the distances.

Whats a rangefinder? Frank

Thanks Van,
Back to one of my original questions, does anyone know where I could find one for between 50 to 100 dollars.  My wife just got new shoes, and that's my price range. I don't care if it's beat to hell and prehistoric as long as it can get me a range within a yard or so. I'm even checking out the ones used in construction to measure, since I don't really need one to tell me anything past 60yds (not that I would shoot that far but just so I knew how much closer I needed to get)
Thanks
Josh

A rangefinder can also do more than just range. If hunting on the ground in a "natural" ground blind, fumbling with binoculars to look at deer at moderate distances can be tough, with a nocked bow across your knees and while trying to keep movement at a minimum.

Think of a rangefinder as a good monocular. And since there are no good quality monoculars out there for hunting, a 4, 6 or 8x monocular in the way of a one handed rangefinder is a bonus.

If you don't care what kind of deer you shoot, then it really doesn't matter. But if you want to look at a browsing deer at 40-800 yards to determine if it's a button buck, if you planned on killing a female deer, or if you have some standard where you pass yearling bucks, the "monocular" aspect of the 4-6x rangefinder, while using only one hand, can come in handy.

Yup. I carry one often when I'm hunting big woods because the optics in my Leica are great and it's a lot lighter than binoculars. 8X Leica - even with the small glass - is clear as can be. In this sense, I don't "range" stuff but I do carry one.

I love mine.  Yes I started using it for my compound, but I almost never used it to range an animal for a shot.  I used it for gun hunting in the same way, to set my shooting range with muzzleloaders and shotguns.  I use it to get a feel for the area.  Typically now with a trad bow I range my area from a stand to set a max. perimeter.  Then I only shoot inside that area.  I have always had a harder time judging range from a tree vs. on the ground.

I also use it for rifle shooting particularly with shooting long range with rim fire.  I even use it to set a shooting area for water fowling or to help set decoys.  Distance can look a lot different on the water or in areas that are a lot different to what you are used to.  I use it often to just range stuff when I am out walking to train my brain.  I have even used it to measure distances like safety zones to stay legal hunting around houses.  I have also used it for work to take rough measurements over longer distances on construction sites.  

I don't see much of a need for it shooting on the ground inside 25 yd. with trad bow because I don't gap.  However, when I am out over 25 yd. shooting targets I do start to split vision shoot, and I do know what my gap looks like at 30 yd. and over even though I don't really think about the gap measurement.  If I know I am at 35 yd. I can shoot a lot more accurately than just by shooting instinctive.  Being able to estimate distance accurately really comes in handy when you get to the longer shots.  

I also use it as a monocular as mojo stated.  I don't carry binoculars when I hunt deer.  I would if I was out west or something and scouting and area or planning a stalk, but for stand and heavy cover hunting all I need is a few X magnification to get a little better look some times.

Trust your brain, the more you shoot - the more reliable it judges distance. You simply pick a spot and forget about the rest.

Hey, Josh-

I'll try and answer your "where to buy" question.

I got mine from a friend who has all the coolest stuff, including rangefinders.  He had a newer one and was looking to off load his old one-and there I was  :) .  That was back when I was only rifle hunting, but if I were you, I'd maybe check some of the sites out there with classifieds, etc.  Also, might get lucky in the newspaper classifieds.  Might be a reach, but I'd also probably give Cabela's and Sportsman's a call just to ask if they have any re-furbished ones or know anyone looking to sell a used one?  Sierra Trading Post also seems to have a lot of "seconds", including binoculars-not sure if they have rangefinders, though.  Try and hit up anyone you work with or know who hunts or has gear for it-you might get lucky with them.  Good luck.

Jeremy

I began using one 5-6 years ago while compound hunting. Because my effective distance was twice what I am with traditional.  I mainly use the rangefinder to check distances to landmarks from my stand before critters appear -- this is instead of the old-style pacing around the area and stinking it up. It is a confidence builder. It was also a really good way to keep my distance ability sharp by testing myself. I had not been planning to use the range finder with my recurve because the distance of 20 yards and under is all I'll shoot and I've shot enough arrows that my bowarm "knows" the elevation at this and less distance.  There is an interesting distinction in my thinking regarding distance and traditional hunting. Too me the strongest motivation to use a rangefinder is different. I would want to make sure I didn't get fooled into trying a shot that was too far with my recurve. With the compound I simply needed to know where to set my single pin.  I certainly don't think you are less a bowhunter (traditional or otherwise) if you choose to use the rangefinder -- and anyway, what I think about you or anyone else might be a "fun fact" but it is irrelevant.

You already own the most effective range finder you can get, it's between you ears! You just need to unlock and trust it! to do this stumpshooting is a great tool like others have said! you'll be suprised how fast your brain will pic this stuff up! another great tool is go to a local 3d shoot that has an elk target and hang back to shoot there when nobody is around and shoot from various distances to get a feel for the size of the critter, an elk at 40 yards may make you feel it is closer if your are used to shooting at deer size critters!  It won't take as long as you think to unlease your built in rangefinder! Another great tool if you have room to shoot is with a golf ball(plastic pratice balls work great), toss it out and shoot with a judo or blunt at various distances! then when your hunting vision that golf ball where you want to hit on your elk!  I believe that if you factor in say a range finder you are drawing away from the simplisty of your hunt, it is just one more thing to distract you when you need to be focused on the task at hand!(picking your spot, making the shot)  Just my two cents! whatever you decide, good luck!!