I would like to know what is the fastest recurve on the market today and the FPS it is.God Bless!!!Joey
The one on the fastest jet. :readit: IBO or AMO or what rating system? Black Swan says 206-208 fps. Belcher has a video of one @250fps with VERY light arrows.
It all depends on the weight of the arrow of course, but both the Habu Vyperkahn and the Black Douglas super swift triple carbon with Hex V limbs do deliver speeds in the high end.
fps I don't know!
Margly
FPS isn't everything. You can't miss fast enough to win.
Guy
I don't know the answer to your question but I am curious as to why you're interested in knowing that information.
Please don't take my question in a negative way because it is a good question but I've always wondered the "why" of it's importance to folks.
This is the 1st time that it's been asked this clearly and succinctly.
Thank you in advance.
God bless,Mudd
Speed is a nebulous factor involving the cast of a bow, arrow weight, arrow tuning, and feather lenght, height and fletch angle. Kind of hard to throw out raw numbers as they don't mean much.
This bow, right here, is one of the fastest. It is the Border Black Douglas Swift. This one has the HEX 4 Limbs. It is a rocket launcher!
(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Border%20Swift/IMG_461016-08-51.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Border%20Swift/IMG_460216-08-45.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Border%20Swift/IMG_4601.jpg)
The one with the lighest arrow. :archer2:
Check out the Pirates of Archery Site.
They have some pretty telling figures when it comes to speed, all bows shooting the same GPP arrows.
I will say speed really is some what of a ghost in the darkness. Folks spend time chasing numbers that are just that numbers.
Mudd,Iam not a speed freak or anything,I was at a shoot the other day and a fellow said he had a recurve that would shoot 240FPS,I cant remember what the bow was,I just thought that was allfull fast.No Sir I shoot #35 and #40 1960 Kodiak Special,and have taken mature deer with both.If there is a bow that shoots that fast I just might buy one,of course I might shoot it a little high.God Bless!Joey
one of the guys shooting at a local tournament missed his target and threw his bow, it went pretty fast.lol
Keep it coming guys this is getting interesting.God Bless!!
youve seen me shoot bornagainbowhunter
I sure would like some numbers guys.God Bless!!!Joey
If you can get your hands on a Jack Howard Gamemaster Jet you would have one of the quickest bow Ive seen in 28 yrs.
Pitsley Predator, A&H(Adcock)ACS-CX, Black Swan, Morrison,Zipper, Border, etc etc, the ones at the top are all so close in speed the differences will make just about none in the real world.
i do know .there are several recurves out there that shoot over 200fps but,im sure they are also shooting a light gpp arrow. that just makes no sence to me . if you want a speed demon just go buy a late model compound .i hear some are shooting over 400fps ,many are over 300fps .but none are faster than the speed of sound . so whats the point with the extreeme speed mindset?
i just dont get the point.
:knothead: :banghead: :deadhorse:
than again if you want to compaire speed at 10gpp than im more interested synce id actually hunt with the setup as long as its quiet.velosity times mass means penitration to me hence hunting applicable.
It really depends on who you ask, how it was tested, etc. A friend of mine once got 232 fps out of a longbow--with super light arrows, drawn to 29", and an excellent release.
There's gobs of ways of fudging the numbers, and people will do that for the simple sake of "bragging rights" to the "fastest". Chrony's are about as reliable as scales too--if they haven't been professionally checked and calibrated, the reading is questionable.
Nock fit, arrow spine, string construction, serving length, silencers, release (fingers, release aid, Hooter Shooter), draw length, arrow weight, tuning, brace height (drop the brace to 5" and shoot with a Hooter Shooter--you'll get impressive speed, but nobody would ever get real world speeds to compare), etc. etc. etc. all come into play. You can get speeds from a "test" that nobody will ever get close to in the real world, if you want to play that game. You can set one bow up to be the fastest, then you can set it up differently and make it a lot slower than another.
Seems that someone put up a pretty good reward a while back, if anyone could provide solid proof of a bow shooting at least 200 fps, pulled to 28", with 10 gpp arrow weight. I'm pretty sure nobody ever collected on that reward.
I've seen/heard gobs of claims, but haven't seen 200 fps @ 28"/10 gpp yet, and I haven't even heard it from a source that I know is credible.
Belcher bows recurve
5 gpp...350grain arrow out of a 70 lb recurve
255fps.
There are probably any number of high performance bows that could achieve those speeds with that light of an arrow but to what purpose?
The Question is not about the need for speed,Its what is the fastest bow on the market today.God Bless!!!Joey
QuoteOriginally posted by owlbait:
Black Swan says 206-208 fps.
Do you happen to know if that's on their new ILF limbs?
well I think their is hunting speed (practical) and range speed. I think of it in these terms. think of a racecar 150mph all day long but effected by the slightest thing and boom crashes. F-250 going 65mph takes a whole lot of variables and remains controlable. slower hunting speed = a Highly controlable flight. Where pushing the limits of given equipment are more subject to erratic flight.
The top bows are within a few FPS of each other. Look at Blackie's list and the tests in TBM; ignore the claims by the bowyer.
Why is speed important? Because speed translates to a flatter trajectory, making it easier to shoot instinctively.
Jack Howard advertised his Jets to be the fastest bows ever made, or your money back.
I am a big believer in Jack Howard bows.
I would take all of my Howards with draw weights of 49, 51, 54, 56, and 57 pounds to local shoots and issue the "Jack Howard Challenge"
A shooter would shoot three of his arrows through my Crony and get his average speed. Then he would shoot those same three arrows from my bow with the closest weight (or exact) through the Crony and take the average speed to see if his bow was as fast as my Howards, pound for pound.
The only bow that ever beat my Howards for speed was a Border Black Douglas owned by Keener from SC.
So, Raging Water, I can support your poistion...but it was just a tad faster.
If you ever find a bow faster than a Jack Howard or a Border Black Douglas, grab it.
Okay I have numbers for Pittsley's Predator recurve as reported by Blacky Schwarz in the "Bow Review" section of "Traditional Bowhunter" magazine from the April/May issue of 2006:
Draw Weight: 50.5 lbs. @ 28"
Arrow Weight: 454 grains
Arrow Speed: 198 fps with mechanical release
Arrow Speed: 193 fps with finger release
These speeds are from using arrows weighing 9 grains per pound(gpp) of draw weight. IBO speeds are rated at 5 gpp and 30" draw length. I wouldn't consider using an IBO speed test with trad equipment as it may jeopardize the bow and the safety of the shooter.
Adding two more inches of draw length to Blacky's test parameters would yield a substantial increase in speed but still be safe to shoot.
C'mon guys, there's nothing wrong with a fast bow as long as you can shoot it accurately and get it quiet. A fast bow equals an efficient bow and also means you can shoot it with less draw weight and use heavy arrows and still get plenty of penetration.
Ron Pittsley's Predator recurve was the fastest bow tested by Blacky up to that date as reported in that issue of Traditional Bowhunter mag.
:) :thumbsup:
QuoteSeems that someone put up a pretty good reward a while back, if anyone could provide solid proof of a bow shooting at least 200 fps, pulled to 28", with 10 gpp arrow weight. I'm pretty sure nobody ever collected on that reward.
I'm with LBR. I want to see the bow that will do this. Of course it can't break after the first shot and it should be reasonably shootable :bigsmyl: ...Van
I understand that Hootie is simply asking an academic question. Of course any speed comparison should have some standards: arrow weight should be reasonable and the same from bow to bow. Of course draw weight and draw length are also important. I have no idea the FPS of my set-up with any of my bows. My best friend was impressed (I take it for granted) with the apparent speed my Pittsley Predator Anniversary shoots. This friend used to be a very avid and successful IBO recurve archer (Champ many times -- some of you on here would probably remember him.) So his being impressed, impressed me. I don't know if it (the Predator)is faster than my Bear TDs, Blacktail, Fox, Widow, etc. I do know that it seems to be the easiest of my bows for me to shoot consistently. I'm also curious about this topic and have been thinking about buying a Chrony. This will just be for fun though because there are so many things more important than speed. Speed with accuracy is worthless. Speed without quiet is ineffective. Any advice out there re: brands and model of Chrony?
Thanks
I meant speed withOUT accuracy is worthless. Sorry.
That's pretty good, thanks for the information. I would guess that the bows were real close in speed although within a few FPS. I know you already know this but I will say it anyway, like most of us at trad gang as if by reading the first bit of this post suggest. Speed is not of much importance to most trad shooters, but on the other hand like Papalapin has mentioned speed is a factor in the makeup of a bow. When I looked for my first recurve I will admit speed was one of my questions when looking for and buying my traditional bow. Now to answer your question on my bow, a Schafer silvertip three peace take down made by Dave Windower. It is FF I shoot EFOC arrows and a 28.3/8 inch arrow, 63 lbs @ 27" arrow weight 718 Grain.
A friend from a local archery shop all wheelies in his store, wanted to see my bow. I was shooting the indoor range at his store; he was impressed with the accuracy and speed of the bow. He asked if I would shoot the bow and send an arrow through his speed trap, I have to admit converting from a wheel bow myself, I was a little curious. Three shots three separate times a total of nine shots averaged out to 189 FPS. I don't know if that is fast for a recurve, for me it does not matter. I would think all traditional bows are pretty close to that some above some under. For me it will do, we look for all kind of ways to improve our shooting, I would think speed is probably one of the last factors in the equation, of course I am not a trained structural engineer or speed demon,
Just a guy who loves my bow the rising sun, this bow will be handed down to my son when I am ready for my new bow and its name will be the setting sun, I already know that. For some reason I do not think the first question out of my sons mouth will be dad how fast is it. Good luck in your quest.
Bruce :dunno:
Okay, so now you know which bows are the speed demons.
Question is, which one fits you best?
That, my friend, is a fun and exciting journey.
Have FUN!
Why, whenever this subject, (which I believe to be an important subject) why does it bring about so many negative replies? As someone stated before, that flatter the trajectory, the better the accuracy (distance estimates). I guess I don't follow the logic of a person who would force the arguement against that?? Of course, consideration would have to be met with several other factors such as bow noise, ease of draw, etc, etc. But, why someone has to rain on someone's parade when this subject is brought up just baffle's me.
This is an interesting and somewhat "tickleish" topic, depending on which side of the speed fence you stand. Speed to me is a relative "non-issue". My bows cast an arrow fast enough suit me that a deer is not going to elude me at my self appointed 20-22 yard distance.....with 7-10 yards being even better. I have no earthly idea what my arrow speeds are at the 12 grain per pound arrow set up I'm currently using. Yet I'm constantly running into fellow trad shooters who are obsessed with 3 more feet per second. I know that this is not what was originally posted about, but I just ignore the speed demons when the speed banter fires up at a shoot, show me how well you shoot, then we'll talk....
Posting speeds without gpp of arrow weight and draw length are meaningless. My understanding is the fastest bow Norb has put thru his standardized, long accepted tests is a Fedora recurve.
HHmmmmm......I myself have never ran into any trad shooters who were obsessed with gaining 3 more fps, as was stated. I have, more often than not, ran across wheelie bow shooters who were extremely obsessed with a couple of fps gain at any cost.
I'll say it again. A bow that is capable of launching an arrow at high speed is an efficient bow in design and therefore has good cast. If that bow is sound in craftsmanship, quality, and durability then what does it hurt that it shoots with great speed? If you can get it to shoot quietly, usually with a couple of string silencers, then that speed can equate to better penetration on game with a relatively heavy arrow. And also, you can get away with shooting that fast bow at less poundage and it still be very adequate for hunting. Less draw weight usually means better form and generally easier to shoot accurately.
A big factor on speed opinion is in tuning. A pefectly tuned bow, with the best set of arrows for it, will produce top performance for that bow. It will effect speed, clean release, quietness, arrow flight, and other factors.
Many guys put a lot of time and effort into tuning their bows to that exact "sweet spot".
This can be effected by the bow string material, construction, number of strands, string lenth (fistmele), nocking point, finger placement style, and many othr factors.
These guys take a lot of pride in the effort they go through to get their setup as perfect as they can, and this is understandible.
This has to be coordinated with all the factors of their perfectly matched set of arrows. Arrow length, weight, and spine; fletching factors, point weight, etc.
With all that said, it all goes out the window if they can't shoot accurately and consistantly.
There is an old saying from the days of traditional tournaments. "The bow is not as important as the man behind the bow"
So, it is not so much that guys are negative about speed. They just my have other factors involved that are more importand to them in attaining the accuracy they strive for.
If you really want to start a heated topic, ask what is the "Best bow in the world" and see where that goes.
Although there will be many opinions, we all know it is the "Jack Howard Gamemaster Jet" :bigsmyl:
I would think that with the new foam cores, carbon cores, foam carbon cores, that we are going to see some bows with impressive speed in the not too distant future.
My take on it is that extra speed can mean flatter trajectory which will aid in instinctive shooting, and also help to compensate for small yardage estimation errors for gap shooters.
That being said, I probably shoot one of the slowest recurves on the market, the Samick Sage. It is cheap, about $120 from 3Rivers, loud unless you upgrade to a fast flight string and whiskers,put some rubber pads between the limb and riser, shoot arrows that are 11.3 gpp, and not very visually appealing when compared to some of the works of art that are out there today. But it is all I have to shoot and all I could afford, and I am thankful to be able to enjoy it.
If it were faster, I am sure I would be shooting more accurately at different distances, but learning the trajectory and finding the sweet spot has been fun, and in the end, that is why I love traditional bows and everything that comes with it.
I am not sure what curve is the fastest.Thier are certainly quite a few that are at the high end of the spectrum and within a few ft per second of each other.
Alot of folks on here have these fast bows with excellant efficiency.
Most of these these bows are not loud and they dont lack in the accuracy department either when set up properly.
When these fast bow threads come up and they come up about every month.Folks always say give me quiet and accurate.As if fast bows were inherintly loud and inaccurate.Just not true at all.I have had quite a few fast bows that were faster than average and shot plenty quiet and accurate.You can shoot a heavier arrow if you want to slow them down a bit.
Which is what I do.Not to slow them down.But I like the momentum I get from a heavier arrow for hunting and they still fly fast with that high effeciency bow.
I do have slower bows that I love as well as the smokers to be fair.Its not all about speed.But theirs nothing wrong with a fast bow with good all around performance.
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
Okay I have numbers for Pittsley's Predator recurve as reported by Blacky Schwarz in the "Bow Review" section of "Traditional Bowhunter" magazine from the April/May issue of 2006:
Draw Weight: 50.5 lbs. @ 28"
Arrow Weight: 454 grains
Arrow Speed: 198 fps with mechanical release
Arrow Speed: 193 fps with finger release
These speeds are from using arrows weighing 9 grains per pound(gpp) of draw weight. IBO speeds are rated at 5 gpp and 30" draw length. I wouldn't consider using an IBO speed test with trad equipment as it may jeopardize the bow and the safety of the shooter.
Adding two more inches of draw length to Blacky's test parameters would yield a substantial increase in speed but still be safe to shoot.
C'mon guys, there's nothing wrong with a fast bow as long as you can shoot it accurately and get it quiet. A fast bow equals an efficient bow and also means you can shoot it with less draw weight and use heavy arrows and still get plenty of penetration.
Ron Pittsley's Predator recurve was the fastest bow tested by Blacky up to that date as reported in that issue of Traditional Bowhunter mag.
:) :thumbsup:
These are about the exact same results I got from my 50 lb Predator with a similar arrow setup. So, I would think its a good test and their bows are consistent. So, if thats what you were looking for comparing apples to apples and not a a super light arrow and high poundage. My Predators are extremely accurate and none of the deer that have been in their way heard anything before the arrow went through them.
My metal riser ILF with Winex limbs will shoot a light arrow about 220 fps. Tuned the way I like it is about 208 fps.I like the ILF's with metal risers because I think they can take the stress of lighter arrows much better.
There are competition shooters that have shot untold number of arrows in the 5-6 gpp range from ILF's.
I like a light fast arrow for 3D and one a little heavier to hunt.
Wrong sight for speed!! Who cares it is accuracy that counts.
Bowmarks your on the money WHO CARES this is trad equipment . :nono:
Pretty sure I've never heard any of the better shooters or hunters I know (and I've known a few) talk about needing the fastest bow made to get the job done. Another thing I've noticed they have in common--they can take most any bow, shoot it a few times, and do just fine with it.
Nothing wrong with a fast bow, if you can hit what you are aiming at and it doesn't blow up on you the first time it's pulled to 28". It looks good on paper, but I'm not convinced there's enough speed difference in most to make a real difference in yardage estimation--seen it too many times, done it too many times when shooting different bows at the same tournament. Some days I shoot the faster bow better, some days it's the slower one.
At any rate, it should be made clear that a few extra fps is no substitute for practice, tuning, good instruction, etc.
A good archer can take a 150 fps selfbow and shoot it well. A good hunter can take that same bow and make meat with it. The fastest bow in the world (pick one) won't make a lousy shooter accurate, or a lousy hunter deadly.
Need proof? Watch some old clips of Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, Howard Hill, the Wilheim brothers...they shot what would be considered slugs by today's standards...and who can begin to shoot as well as they did?
My fastest is an "Early" Morrison T/D 62" 62# bamboo core R/C limbs... I realize this is a bit on the light side at 6.9 ggp however I get a constant 220 fps with it shooting 29 1/2 GT 5575's with 145 up front.
When hunting season arrives I jump up to 230gn [with steel inserts] single bevels or 250gn 1 1/4" VPA screw-in's. This brings the wt up to the 530gn range which I use in which ever bow I choose to hunt with that day... I have never cronoed this set up :confused: :archer2:
Gene
I'll say it again. A bow that is capable of launching an arrow at high speed is an efficient bow in design and therefore has good cast. If that bow is sound in craftsmanship, quality, and durability then what does it hurt that it shoots with great speed? If you can get it to shoot quietly, usually with a couple of string silencers, then that speed can equate to better penetration on game with a relatively heavy arrow. And also, you can get away with shooting that fast bow at less poundage and it still be very adequate for hunting. Less draw weight usually means better form and generally easier to shoot accurately.
Fedora says his bows were proven to be the fastest, but my Morrison Shawnee, and my Shafer Silvertip are rocket launchers. I believe I saw in a test that the wheel bows obtain their speed from an arrow in the 5ppg range, and we should not shoot something that light in our trad bows.
I found in the past that a 47# Bear had no problem shooting through a deer at 20 yards, and it was probably in the 170 fps range.
The original question was about the fastest bow...not about whether it was good or bad. Many of the points made are good ones but the fellow still would like to know about the fastest bow. I've been shooting since the early 50's and even way back then most guys appreciated a fast bow. Groves and the Red Wing Hunter were very popular for that simple reason.
Here is what I think about fast bows. RH Clark is pretty much in the same boat I am. With advent of the ILF recurve limb being brought into the hunting scene you will be hard pressed to find bows that are as fast and accurate. They are very efficient weapons in all catagories. Since they can shoot very light arrows without damaging the limbs some speeds that have been reported are remarkable. Now, if such speed is necessary or desisreable in a hunting situation is up for debate because personal factors come into play. For example, when my wife wanted to bow hunt I went on the hun for the best bow for her. Long story short....I got her a DAS bow with ILF limbs. She can shoot a 45# @ 26" bow comfortably and I make her arrows about 500 grains (they just came out that way once I got them to be shooting properly). I can't tell you numbers but with the WIN&WIN carbon foam limbs she shoots she gets remarkable speed and performance and a very stable and efficient bow. It allows her to hunt without even to have to consider using a compound, and as I have commented on this site more than once, she consistently shoots thru bear and deer with four blade heads. IMO, speed and efficiency are very important if you want to pack enough punch to hunt with confidence when you have to shoot a lighter weight bow with a short draw.
In summary, you can play with many of the new ILF limbs and risers and depending on the arrow you shoot you can achieve some speeds that are just phenomenal.
For what it is worth,I shoot a 21"Dalaa with Dalaa carbon foam recurve limbs (45#) and stock 8125 endlss string.Chroned (average of 6) at 192 fps @ 28" draw and 9 gpbp arrow finger release, I use a 8.7gpbp arrow (for conpetition) which is perfectly tuned and get 195 fps with this settup, I consistenly out penetrate other heavier bows with light or heavy arrows, and (much to my surprise)I shoot it accurately ! Works for me. Cheers Pete.
Slow hit or fast miss?
How bout a fast hit.
You can count on one hand the fps difference in most of the top bows available so picking one you like and can shoot best is a better usage of your time.:)The difference in speed between the slowest bow and fastest bow that is legal hunting weight will never make an difference in killing.It will also make no difference doing anything most of us use a bow for once you get used to the bow.I am all for fast bows but know it really is not much difference in any of them once setup the way I want to use them.jmo
QuoteOriginally posted by K. Mogensen:
Slow hit or fast miss?
Slow miss or fast hit - makes as much sense.
And neither addresses the original question.
Okay, what's the fastest bow on the market? I have no idea. Speed's nice but not neccessary. If you want to shoot something fast, buy a compound or a cross bow. I've just always summed it up as Slow hit or Fast miss but you guys shot holes through that un.
I'd rather have a slow bow that I can shoot accurately than a fast bow that I can't, but that's already been said...
At 20 yards what is the real difference in drop between a fast and not so fast arrow ?
ChuckC
QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Carlsen:
The original question was about the fastest bow...not about whether it was good or bad.
Exactly! I don't know why folks get so offended when someone wants to talk about speed as they apply to trad bows :dunno:
QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Carlsen:
The original question was about the fastest bow...not about whether it was good or bad.
Exactly! I don't know why folks get so offended when someone wants to talk about speed as they apply to trad bows :knothead: :help:
Officially tested at 10 gpi , 28 in mechanical draw, mechanical release was Centaur at 201fps.Several other bows are right there including Ken Roloffs , Whippenstick and Sasquatch and Eaglewing./Ach under same test conditions was 191 fps.Check out the WTT threads for controlled, accurate , equal testing, For recutves , my Eaglewing Talon and the Border Hex 5 would do the trick , Both close in design , Hex 5 is an ILF top mount and Eaglewing is back mounted , both tight recurves with static tips.
Okay, I am not a speed freak, but if someone wants to get some extra speed have at it. HOWEVER . . .
With speed comes noise. The speed of sounds is roughly 1500 fps, so even the fastest compounds of today still cannot outrun a deers reflexes. The only benefit to speed is trajectory. Generally speaking flatter trajectory makes it easier to shoot at longer ranges, but if the bow is noisy again . . .
All I'm saying is that if your goal is hunting, I would much rather find the quietest bow vs the fastest one. I think it is funny when my wheelie buddies obsess over speed and forget about the simple effective bow and arrow combinations(ie arrow weight) just to make up some ground as far as speed goes.
I am not saying that is your goal, its probably just a question of curiosity, I'm just throwin some knowledge at ya :)
One of the reasons the reflex/deflex longbows are so popular is because their design inherently invites speed into the equation. When bowhunters talk about them shooting like recurves, the discussion is really almost always about the speed they gain over the old style Hill type longbows. I don't know anyone who ever sold or traded a bow because it was too fast. On the other hand I know of more than a few that did get rid of bows because they were disappointed in the speed. That's a fact!
As to the fastest bow....I just got a set of 57# Border HEX 5 limbs for my DAS riser. It is the fastest bow I have ever shot. It is also one of the most accurate...but the speed is there is spades and it is faster, I think, than my 60# Winex limbs with the same arrows. I don't know if Border makes THE fastest bows but they are right up there with the best of them.
I'd bet that every guy on here that is saying speed don't matter is hunting Whitetail from a stand and shooting 15 yards max. They are right, speed doesn't matter to them. 20 FPS at 15 yards is about 2 inches in drop, not enough to matter. Any one want to guess what 20 FPS at 30 yards is, it matters. Everyone needs to get off their high horse when someone asks about speed.
Like some say here, when all is equal. why wouldn't you want a better performing bow.
Just because someone is asking what's the fastest bow, you all instantly think he going to shoot 7 GPP. He could be shooting 12 GPP and still wants to know what the fastest bow is.
QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:
QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Carlsen:
The original question was about the fastest bow...not about whether it was good or bad.
Exactly! I don't know why folks get so offended when someone wants to talk about speed as they apply to trad bows :dunno: [/b]
Because the silent implication in a question like that is that speed is necessary to kill game. That was my interpretation when I posted earlier in the thread.
I apologize that I did not treat this as a simple question devoid of any agenda. Useless posts when someone is seeking a particular answer is a pet peeve of mine and I fell right into the trap.
Guy
QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Carlsen:
The original question was about the fastest bow...not about whether it was good or bad.
Exactly! I don't know why folks get so offended when someone wants to talk about speed as they apply to trad bows :archer2:
I don't know what is the fastest bow? But I do know the Brown Recluse Carbon Spider and Seminole Chief should be in the top 10 list.
I shoot a fast bow but I don't shoot fast arrows!
I have a relatively short draw length and I only shoot 48# at my 26.75" draw. So, with my "handicap" I like shooting an efficient bow. My Pittsley Predator serves that purpose very well, but I still choose to shoot a fairly heavy arrow at 11.5 grains per pound(gpp). The combination of short draw length, moderate to low draw weight, and heavy arrow, brings my speed down to only 161 fps. But, a less efficient bow would have me shooting much less speed and therefore more of a rainbow trajectory than I already have. I have a fast shooting bow but I use it to launch a slower, heavier arrow resulting in a reduced arrow speed, yielding better penetration on game.
Mine of course! :bigsmyl:
Personally, I could care less. My Brack Quest is a fast bow but I shoot heavy arrows so speed is not important to me. I want a bow that will cast a heavy arrow efficently.
I'm sold that I've found the holy grail of bows for me! I'm shooting a Border BD triple carbon spine riser and Hex-5W limbs. This bow has no hand shock, is ultra smooth on draw and is easy to shoot accurately. It seems fast enough for me, don't have a crono, but it's obviously a fast bow!
I thought that A@H claimed that there bows would shoot faster than any other bow made because of the design.
I have owned one and have another one comming and i have to say that they are very fast bows.
Speed does not have to be a bad thing.It should be just one of many criteria for judging a bow but I don't think we need to totally dismiss speed just because we shoot a trad bow.
All else being equal including noise,take two identical bows.Both exactly the same but one will shoot the same arrow 10 fps faster.How many would pick the slower bow just because they were doing things the "TRAD" way?
My point is that with some of the designs and materials today we don't necessarly have to give up anything to have a more efficient and yes,"FASTER" bow.
It seems to me whenever a thread involving anything about the improved performance of bows comes up there has to be such a negative fuss about it. If you aren't interested in it simply move on to the next thread! There are a LOT of us here who enjoy learning about the new technology and appreciate the info and I personally don't want people like me to not post their questions or tips out of fear of getting bashed by the Herd for not being trad. Some one posted who cares about speed. This is trad. What does that mean? In order to be trad you can't stay tuned to current advances? Trying to be a gentleman but SHEESH!
QuoteOne of the reasons the reflex/deflex longbows are so popular is because their design inherently invites speed into the equation. When bowhunters talk about them shooting like recurves, the discussion is really almost always about the speed they gain over the old style Hill type longbows.
You've talked to different people than I have, and I am one of those guys that much more prefers a deflex/reflex longbow over a straight or reflex design.
The simple reason for me is the lack of handshock vs. the others. The selfbow I built is also deflex/reflex, and for the same reason. It's no speed demon, but it doesn't kick my arm out of socket either. That's the overwhelming reason the people I've talked with shoot deflex/reflex longbows...and selfbows.
QuoteBecause the silent implication in a question like that is that speed is necessary to kill game.
Bingo. Nothing wrong with a faster bow, but it's been misused and abused as much in this side of the sport as the other--you've "got" to have this or that or the other, else you just aren't an ethical hunter and you'll never kill anything and you'll never hit a target past 15 yds, etc. etc. etc. IMO it's become little more than a selling point and a quest for bragging rights.
Someone who can't hit a barn from the inside can still brag about owning the fastest, most expesive, hardest to get, etc.--and there will be people who are impressed by it.
I've shot quite a few of the bows purported to be among the fastest, as speed used to be one of my top priorities when looking for a bow...now I mainly look at the design of the bow as it relates to stability and a forgiving shot...I also try to look for info on the smoothness of draw and low hand shock.
The fastest bows I've shot, at least to my perception, have been a Turkey Creek Double Carbon longbow (no longer advisable to buy one new), a DAS Master with Samick Extreme limbs (just a bit faster than Winex), and a Border recurve with Hex4 limbs (Hex5 would be even faster). That being said, my Schafer Silvertip was very close in speed, and my favorite shooter amongst the wood-riser bows. Honestly, the top recurves and D/R longbows out there don't have a huge difference in speed between them, so it really comes down to other variables, IMO, including which bow fits you best as an individual.
Craig
I sure like the speed of both my NEW Shrew Classic Hunter 56" longbow and my NEW Cari-bow Wolverine 58" longbow- these both toss an arrow at warp speed but do so in a stealthy, unassuming manner. Light and no hand shock at all PERIOD!!! Hard to put either down after you shoot a few arrows thru them. Andrew
Anything Greg Coffee builds works for mEEEEEE :)mark #78
I would like to thank everyone for there imput,again all the bows I own are 40 to 50 years old,I really like the Kodiak specials 1960 models,mabey because I shoot them the best,now I do have a good idea on some fast bows if I choose to get one,now who has a BBD for sale I want one.God Bless you all!!!Joey
The Border Hex-5's have ruined me, all my other bows are for sale! just don't have time for them anymore. You'll like one if you try it!!! I will say at first I wasn't sure about it, but once I got it set up and tuned properly it's all I shoot! Best of luck
ishoot4thrills. At my 26 inch draw you seem to be shooting spears to me!
Hootie,
Thanks for asking the question. Sorry I couldn't add two cents about what I know about fast bows because I haven't chronographed any of mine. Some of the folks provided very specific information that was at least interesting. Others reinforced the importance of things other than speed which I'm sure you already know and didn't ask about, but we just can't help ourselves. Certain topics just send some of back to the basic truths of archery. Maybe we'd hate for a newbie to peruse such a post and misread your interest and think that speed was the only or most important thing to successful and enjoyable bowhunting?
For me, and I'm a bit ashamed to admit being so shallow, but the appearance of a terrific custom bow fires me up. I love the beauty of some of these wood combinations even though the quarry I devote 25% of my archery time (Hunting season) doesn't give a toot about it. If it weren't for fine looking custom recurves, I wouldn't be back in traditional. In my defense I assume these top custom beauties to be good shooters or you folks (long-time traditional buyers) would have put them out of business long ago. Frankly, I hope I outgrow this aesthetics-driven interest soon because it is getting expensive. My lovely wife trumped one of my bows-on-order with a new frig today! When I order a new bow she smiles and says ...ka ching -- then I simply mentally double what I just spent.
I think the OP would have gotten some better responses if he simply asked what bow was most efficient.
If I'm shooting a 700 gr arrow at 50 lbs @28, I'd like to know if the bow was able to efficiently transfer it's energy into the arrow - resulting in more speed. It's certainly a more important consideration than what accent wood I'm going to have put into the riser (which many agonize over). It also says something for the bowyer's ability to design and produce an efficient bow.
Quoted by Bowwild: " Maybe we'd hate for a newbie to pursue such a post and misread your interest and think that speed was the only or most important thing to successful and enjoyable bowhunting?"
Although I admit I do love a highly efficient, yet accurate capable bow, you have raised an interesting truth and awareness to this subject. We must also be careful and emphasize that we are not recommending everyone has to have the fastest bow on the market to be a successful bowhunter. So, please don't misunderstand some of our desires to shoot efficient bow designs and translate it into being the most important thing when considering a new bow. But it sure doesn't hurt anything if it so happens that the bow you end up happy with is also very fast too!
QuoteOriginally posted by hootie c:
I sure would like some numbers guys.God Bless!!!Joey
Then you need to define EXACT criteria. pull weight/arrow weight/pull length/ arrow length....yada,yada
All you'll end up with is numbers. Arrow speed is for compounds, usually expressed in feet per second. A fast BOW is one that allows you to get off a quick, accurate shot.
This is an easy one, Matthew (raging water) has the fastest bow ever made because it's something like 200@28 probably shoot'n 350 fps with a 2000 grain arrow :archer2:
QuoteOriginally posted by John Nail:
QuoteOriginally posted by hootie c:
I sure would like some numbers guys.God Bless!!!Joey
Arrow speed is for compounds, usually expressed in feet per second. [/b]
:biglaugh: :laughing: Give me a break man! Arrow speed is for compounds??
QuoteOriginally posted by Danny Rowan:
Personally, I could care less. My Brack Quest is a fast bow but I shoot heavy arrows so speed is not important to me. I want a bow that will cast a heavy arrow efficently.
???? Well, that doesn't make sense at all. In your case, speed should be very important to you, if you are shooting heavy arrows.
QuoteArrow speed is for compounds
Never heard anyone say I would have bought that recurve, but it just seemed to fast :) Frequent descriptions of favorite bows include quick, really slings an arrow, hard hitting and so on - all are speed(efficiency) related.
Arrow speed with matching criteria does give you an accurate indication of the most powerful, or effecient, or whatever you want to call it. It is one of the few characteristics that can be measured easily.
Guys spend hours trying to maximize their arrow setup (efoc, bevels, sharpness, footings, etc.) to gain every bit of proformance. If having the deadliest setup possible is your goal, how can speed (with set criteria) not be important or at least a consideration?
My Border is just freaky fast, dead in the hand, and super quiet. However, it is a high wrist and I am a low wrist guy so.........
I just sold my Border Black Douglas Swift. It sold in a matter of hours. That was fast!
QuoteIt is one of the few characteristics that can be measured easily.
That's where the rub comes in. Sure, anyone can fling a few arrows and get chrony readings--but there's a whole lot more to it if you want accurate and equal comparisons.
As I noted earlier, there's a ton of different things you can do to "make" a bow shoot faster (or slower)--for "test" purposes at least. There's also things that a lot of people don't think about, or check.
Some things that have to be taken into consideration...
brace height- string material-strand count- serving length and size-nock fit-release-draw weight-arrow weight-arrow tuning-silencers-draw length-release-chrony calibration-bow tuning
I'm probably leaving out a bunch.
Speed/performance/whatever can be checked properly, or it can be checked easily--but not both. That's why there will likely never be a consensus on what bow is "THE" fastest. It's a trick question.
QuoteIf having the deadliest setup possible is your goal, how can speed (with set criteria) not be important or at least a consideration?
Ask someone who hunts with a selfbow. Or, think about what your answer would be if your buddy that only uses a compound or a rifle were to ask you a similar question.
I couldn't tell you how many fps my selfbows will shoot an arrow, but I can tell you they will easily put an arrow through a deer. I can tell you I have used them to out-shoot a ton of shooters who had bows that were obviously faster, and I've been out-shot by archers using bows that were obviously slower than mine. I know hunters that kill more game than I do with their slower bows also.
I don't mean that as a smart-aleck answer, but rather an honest answer to your question.
I'm a hunter, and I like to shoot in tournaments. I know I don't shoot the fastest bows on the market (especially my selfbows). I can honestly say I cannot think of one instance where that has ever cost me an animal or one point on the target range.
My old red wing still gets 180fps with a 500 grn arrow . I like a fast shooter for what I hunt .Shooting a white tail standing still under a tree stand at ten feet might not matter, shooting a incoming coyote it matters.
I think thier will be those few times over the course of a lifetime when you hunt alot that that little bit of extra momentum imparted to the arrow from a very effecient bow may make the difference between the recovery of an animal or one lost to the thickets.Especially if you are shooting lighter weight bows or have a shorter draw and shoot lighter weight bows.
The devils in the details and hunting like many things in life is a game of inches.Just a little extra penetration after centering a rib on the way in and out may allow an arrow to poke out the other side just enough to give a good enough blood trail to enable you a better chance to recover game.Or possibly an excellant blood trail when otherwise it may be marginal to near non exsistant.
I have had this happen a few times and was glad under those circumstances that I was shooting a bow that was very effecient and I feel helped me get maximum pentration and allowed me to barely pop an arrow out the bottom of the brisket of a nice whitetail where all the ribs comes together.I honestly dont think a less effecient bow would have got the same results and would have made for less of a chance of the recovery of the animal in thick cover.
Just for the record I do have bows that are somewhat slower to moderate speed and some that are what would be considered at the upper end.Thier is about a 15 ft. per second difference between the less high performace ones and the ones that are at the upper end at 10 grains per pound.I typically use an 8 or 10 strand astroflight string or 6 or 8 strand 450 or 12 strand 8125 on these bows.
I am not shooting very heavy bows.50 to 55#s at 30 inches draw.I have been hunting with bows with a little more umph to them the last few years.
I have hunted alot with mild R and D longbows in the past.I was shooting around 65 to 70 #s at 30 inches with them and was very successful with them.With the lighter weights I shoot now I do prefer as much speed I can get from a quiet and stable shooting bow thats well tuned with carbon arrows and around 11 to 12 grains per pound and 200 to 250 grain grains up front.I like a 2 blade head or 4 blade with low profile bleeders like the stingers
Its lethal.I like my setup and am confident in it.Too each his own.
So did anyone figure out who makes the fastest recurve?Its blowin in the wind.
Back before this website was even started, we had long sessions about bow speed. It was a "compound mentality" and was discussed to death. Sure, everyone wants an efficient bow. Who wants to pull 50lbs and 45lbs performance? Guys used to post they were getting 200 fps with brand X. It got to be ridiculous. I posted this challenge:
"If you have a recurve that will consistently post 200 fps pulling 28" with an arrow that weighs 10grs. per pound, through my Oehler chronograph, I will give $1000 for it"
That was back when $1K was unheard of for a bow. I never had to pay it.
My point is, if you're concerned about speed, you're not concentrating on accuracy. Accuracy kills.
Most good modern designs will shoot around 170/180 with a 10gr/lb arrow. You can't go wrong with most name brands. What you're really paying for, is cosmetics.
My 2 cents worth.
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
...
C'mon guys, there's nothing wrong with a fast bow as long as you can shoot it accurately and get it quiet....
This thread has gone far beyond Hootie's "just for fun" question. Of couse that's ok. There are ways to really speed up the stick bow. You need a pile of cables, some wheels, at least one cam, you know where I'm heading. Of course I'm just having a bit of fun here but as a retired wildlife director I'm reminded of some of the regulatory discussions involving muzzleloading rifles as the smokepole has evolved (in some versions it doesn't even "smoke" anymore). I used to always caution these muzzleloader developers that if they try real hard they'll succeed in reinventing the centerfire rifle.
Personally, if someone said such and such a recurve was the fastest I would be curious but cautious. I would first want to know what so many have stated above -- the set-up and criterial for such a claim. Then I'd expect the bow to be noisy, harsh to shoot, and ugly. However, if one of the beauties I own turned out to be the "Fastest" I'd be tickled pink! A good friend of mine just deveoped a new bow. I saw it for the first time yesterday. I have huge respect for this friend and his archey know-how. However, I wouldn't use the bow if it were given to me because it doesn't satisfy my aesthetic. I hope others don't share my bias because I wish the bowyer and the bow well.
Lots of opinions here and not a lot of answers. There are no real answers for very good reasons.
Anyone can lay claim to the fastest bow. Until you set the bows up side by side with identical set ups no one will ever know. Plus you would have to shoot them out of a hooter shooter or other machine for consistancy.
Even worse is that three different bows from the same manufacturer with identical specs will shoot different speeds. With the possible exception of the aluminum riser / carbon limb combos where it is a lot easier to use consistant materials. There are to many variables in wood and glass bows for even identical bows to to shoot the same speeds across three or four identical bows.
Shooter4Christ - It is not shallow to shoot gorgeous bows. It is personal preference. I happen to have a pair of beauties I shoot. I am making a self bow this weekend to deer hunt with it won't be gorgeous.
I take the shoot whatever you want stance on trad equipment. If you are a speed guy, shop, shoot different bows, and buy as many as you like. If you don't like that theme to your "trad" archery then buy what you want and like. As long as it doesn't have wheels, stabilizers, etc... Then it fits the "trad" bill for me.
I do not discriminate against any trad bow for any reason. Hill, R/D longbow, recurve. I will shoot them all and smile while I am doing it.
I think many of us get hung up in our own perceptions of what is "trad" and forget that perceptions ( ours ) are only our reality and do not apply to anyone else. Others perceptions are their reality.
"Back before this website was even started, we had long sessions about bow speed. It was a "compound mentality" and was discussed to death. Sure, everyone wants an efficient bow. Who wants to pull 50lbs and 45lbs performance? Guys used to post they were getting 200 fps with brand X. It got to be ridiculous. I posted this challenge:
"If you have a recurve that will consistently post 200 fps pulling 28" with an arrow that weighs 10grs. per pound, through my Oehler chronograph, I will give $1000 for it"
That was back when $1K was unheard of for a bow. I never had to pay it.
My point is, if you're concerned about speed, you're not concentrating on accuracy. Accuracy kills.
Most good modern designs will shoot around 170/180 with a 10gr/lb arrow. You can't go wrong with most name brands. What you're really paying for, is cosmetics.
My 2 cents worth." John Nail
I kept thinking I wanted to post my thoughts on this, but John went ahead and pretty much covered any points I wanted to make.
QuoteOriginally posted by John Nail:
My point is, if you're concerned about speed, you're not concentrating on accuracy. Accuracy kills.
I am certainly not a speed guy and couldn't tell you what any of my 20+ trad bows have shot with a given arrow weight. However, some of these types of statements are very cliche. They are not only over used, they are often not completely correct.
It's quite possible for humans to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. We can also choose to put together the most accurate setup possible and still look for a very efficient bow beforehand. Also, accuracy kills nothing without any speed. It takes both to be successful. As hunters, we get to decide what proportion of each we want to apply towards our setups.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Carlsen:
One of the reasons the reflex/deflex longbows are so popular is because their design inherently invites speed into the equation.
Why would a reflex/deflex have more speed then a Hill style longbow that has a heavy deflex, which used to be a very popular option. You get all th eenergy with a couple inches of deflex with none of the take away of the reflex.
Just curious...
R/D longbows use the same basic design as a recurve with less radical curves in the limbs. There is more area under the energy curve for an R/D longbow than a D shape. The R/D shape allows for higher energy storage and release over the limbs travel distance.
Essentially the reflex / deflex segments of the limbs store and release energy more efficiently during different segments of the firing stroke of the limb.
Bob Lee is preety darn fast, but Chastain Wapiti is hands down faster. Wish I had a Predator to compare.
Wapiti and Predator designs are very similiar with the Wapiti more radical in design. I would love to try both out side by side.
QuoteOriginally posted by Str8Arrow:
QuoteOriginally posted by John Nail:
My point is, if you're concerned about speed, you're not concentrating on accuracy. Accuracy kills.
It's quite possible for humans to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. We can also choose to put together the most accurate setup possible and still look for a very efficient bow beforehand. Also, accuracy kills nothing without any speed. It takes both to be successful. As hunters, we get to decide what proportion of each we want to apply towards our setups. [/b]
Taken out of context. I stated that most modern designs would shoot at least 170fps with a hunting setup. Versus what? Nobody does 200fps yet-with the same hunting setup. I am not good at math, but maybe one of the whizz-kids here can tell us the flight time difference 20fps would make at 25 yards?
Not trying to argue, just trying to point out the difference in modern bows is very slight, at least as far as hunting use goes.
I haven't done the math yet, but being an engineer and having worked with these types of things often enough, I can say that the difference in flight time is neglibible. As in small fractions of a second at 25 yards. The impact point difference will also be small enough that only the very best shots will see much of a difference. Most of us simple don't shoot well enough to know that the overall group is hitting 1/2 + inches lower at 25 yards.
Hootie: The definitive answer to your question (after sifting through all the responses in this thread) as to the fastest recurve out there -- "WE DON'T KNOW." :deadhorse:
QuoteOriginally posted by John Nail:
I am not good at math, but maybe one of the whizz-kids here can tell us the flight time difference 20fps would make at 25 yards?
Not trying to argue, just trying to point out the difference in modern bows is very slight, at least as far as hunting use goes.
I agree with this statement. I'm not trying to make it out to be a critical decision, but why knock someone who wants an efficient design on a bow they may pay many hundreds of dollars for? So what if they they spend a few minutes trying to make a good decision in this area? It certainly does not affect other decisions designed to increase accuracy.
I think my average shot on a deer must be in the 8-10 yards range. Accuracy just isn't a huge issue at these distances, yet if the deer moves, then penetration may be as important in some situations. A slightly more efficient bow, may give just enough extra to get to some vitals.
I think the people who are a bit misguided are the ones trying to shoot 5-6 gpp, not the ones who simply want their 800 grain arrow to fly a bit faster than it does in some inefficient designs.
fastest recurve out there depends on how it is setup and who is doing the shooting.Spend a little time watching different guys shoot through a crony sometime.There is much more difference between what most can get from 2 shots as there is in the speed between the top ten fast bows made.Most every test shows a couple or 3 fps difference in the fast ones and it is not uncommon to see as much as 10fps difference if you ask the average guy to shoot two shots through a crony with his bow.If you want a fast bow just buy one.It will be as fast as any other you could have bought as long as you are doing the shooting. ;)
I would pick Border for a recurve...if I liked the way they felt and shot.It would be fast.
As STR8arrow said,accuracy kills nothing without any speed. My curve shoots 195 fps. That's great for a deer at 20 yards, plenty fast enough. But ask me that same question after I spend all day calling coyotes. By the time my arrow gets down range 20 yards or so, the yotes are 2-3 yards away from where they were before. Jumping the string. Very frustrating. This has happened numorous times. I think its a great question. All I know is I don't have the fastest bow.
I owned a chronograph for years that was used mostly for evaluating rifle loads. For awhile I chrono'ed my bows as well as anyone else's that I happened to be shooting with. Most all bows of the same weight range were similar in speed, some a little faster like the Adcock ACS I had at that time. None were enough faster to make any appreciable difference in a hunting situation.
I sold the chrono. I decided that if the bow shot well for me and looked pretty fast, that's good 'nuff.
My shootingstinks,
Thanks for the insight about the chrono. If I acquired one it would be for fun and curiousity. I don't think I would use it to evaluate my bows. However, I do tend to pick up bells and whistles that I don't need and soon lay to the side.
Well, this has been an interesting thread. Just like the "old days", except everyone has been much more courteous. Ended the same also--we can't agree. I suppose that's a good thing.
Just read a post by Igvivian. Long story short..he picked up an "Addiction" bow, shot it and bought it. He had this to say." The bow I tried shot smooth and fast, and felt great in the hand! I was hooked...."
I have rarely read any threads about guys getting new bows and being "amazed" by the speed. If you read thru very many of the posts on this site and others about new bows acqusitions speed of the bow is one of the qualities that is almost always mentioned. I'm not saying speed is good or bad...but it is a big factor in what people find appealing in a bow and many of us look for it.
In the old days it was difficult to make a fast bow and maintain stability. Read some older articles about bow performance and often the "trade offs" to get a fast bow were mentioned and they were not always the most accurate bows back then, but there were exceptions. Today with better and more advanced materials, designs, etc. getting speed and accuracy does not present the problems it used to. We are fortunate that we live today where you can buy a bow the is fast or slow and is still a great shooter. I still maintain that regardless of the qualities you may seek in a bow (or arrow) accuracy and straight shooting trump everything. But, fortunately, we can now have both if we want it or need it.
For me, speed does matter and again, for me, here's why:
1 fps equals 4 grains of arrow weight
2 fps equals 1 pound of draw weight
3 fps equals 1" of draw
So when I have a bow that performs better I can increase my arrow weight, decrease my draw weight, or accommodate a shorter draw.
Now for some numbers that was the original question:
64" ACS CX
49@28"
417 grain arrow 192 FPS
554 grain arrow 173 FPS
625 grain arrow 164 FPS
QuoteOriginally posted by S. Fillmore:
As STR8arrow said,accuracy kills nothing without any speed. My curve shoots 195 fps. That's great for a deer at 20 yards, plenty fast enough. But ask me that same question after I spend all day calling coyotes. By the time my arrow gets down range 20 yards or so, the yotes are 2-3 yards away from where they were before. Jumping the string. Very frustrating. This has happened numorous times. I think its a great question. All I know is I don't have the fastest bow.
GIVE UP ON SPEED. No one is never EVER going to get fast enough to outrun a coyotes reflexes with a bow. The speed of sound is 1500 fps as I stated in my first post. The only way anyone is going to combat string jump or anything animal reflex related is by focusing on sound. Having a fast bow is nothing if it is noisy. If you have the slowest bow in the world but it is also the quietest bow in the world and you are accurate with it then there is nothing that you cannot kill. Even the fastest compounds of today are not fast enough to outrun a regular humans reflexes, they surely cannot outrun a animals.
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Shelton:
GIVE UP ON SPEED. No one is never EVER going to get fast enough to outrun a coyotes reflexes with a bow. The speed of sound is 1500 fps as I stated in my first post.
I think the biggest reason trad shooters want more efficient bows isn't to overcome the reaction time of an animal. It's to flatten the trajectory of their arrow (especially heavy arrows) and to increase the momentum of their arrows (especially those with low draw weight).
By the way, the speed of sound is a hair over 1100/ft/sec at sea level and decreases substantially with altitude. Over 68 degrees, it will increase a bit and will decrease a bit at lower temps. Your figure is actually around 36% faster than it really is.
My 60# Martin Vision will go 217 with a carbon arrow.It is a RD longbow though.
The ad for the brown recluse shows a readout of 214.
QuoteOriginally posted by Str8Arrow:
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Shelton:
GIVE UP ON SPEED. No one is never EVER going to get fast enough to outrun a coyotes reflexes with a bow. The speed of sound is 1500 fps as I stated in my first post.
I think the biggest reason trad shooters want more efficient bows isn't to overcome the reaction time of an animal. It's to flatten the trajectory of their arrow (especially heavy arrows) and to increase the momentum of their arrows (especially those with low draw weight).
By the way, the speed of sound is a hair over 1100/ft/sec at sea level and decreases substantially with altitude. Over 68 degrees, it will increase a bit and will decrease a bit at lower temps. Your figure is actually around 36% faster than it really is. [/b]
I agree that a lot of shooters are looking for faster bows to compensate for rainbow trajectory's. But it seems to me that more and more of the archers around me are trying to claim that there bow is fast enough to avoid string jump. I like my bow as fast as it can be because of trajectory. But I am by no means a speed freak.
I have a compound buddy that actually said to me last week that his new bicycle was fast enough that he didn't have to worry about string jump. And he was not kidding, he actually meant it. Maybe it is something to do with that crowd but they say some of the darnedest things because that is either what the dealer said or what they heard on tv.
And sorry about the slighty off stat, been a year since I've had physics, you are right, 1100 fps for sound. :biglaugh: Either way still a long way to go before the arrow gets there first . . .
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
I'll say it again. A bow that is capable of launching an arrow at high speed is an efficient bow in design and therefore has good cast. If that bow is sound in craftsmanship, quality, and durability then what does it hurt that it shoots with great speed? If you can get it to shoot quietly, usually with a couple of string silencers, then that speed can equate to better penetration on game with a relatively heavy arrow. And also, you can get away with shooting that fast bow at less poundage and it still be very adequate for hunting. Less draw weight usually means better form and generally easier to shoot accurately.
I agree 101%. If you've never encountered a "string jumping" animal you'll probably not understand the need for speed. I took a shot at a common duiker about 3 weeks ago, it was standing about 12 meters from me, feeding peacefully. My bow is VERY quiet and I fired a "perfect" shot...the duiker ran off a few meters, turned and doubled back ...BEFORE the arrow reached its original position! It crossed the arrows path TWICE and still was faster. Duiker, impala and warthog will all dodge an arrow as if its barely moving...
So for me quietis KING, and accuracy is obviously important...BUT, that said...I LIKE a faster bow... Sometimes it makes the difference
I once had a friend who shot a bunch of stuff with a Black Widow. One day he shot at a deer that jumped the string and he missed. He vowed that would never happen again. He went out and bough the fastest compound he could find. Long story short....with his new compound, sights, release (all the bells and whistles including super fast light weight arrows) he had a nice 6 point feeding about 15 yards away in an apple orchard. The deer was totally unalarmed and when Mark released his arrow he was surprised to it sticking in the ground after it went over the buck's back because the buck jumped the string.
The lesson is simple, speed is not going to make up for an animal's reflexes and anyone who thinks otherwise just has not hunted for too long. I look for speed in a bow because I shoot b better and also because it allows me to shoot heavier arrows thru critters more easily than bows that have less of what we used to call "cast". I see this particularly in my wife's situation where she shoots only 45# at 26" but the cast of her bow allows her to shoot a very flat arrow and she can shoot 500 grains, with much more retained energy than others shooting the same weight with lighter arrows and slower speeds and it allows her to get pass thrus with multiple blade heads. Essentially I am saying and supporting what Lefty said.
A friend of mine has 2 of Jack's gamemaster jets. I know one is still new in the box, at least it was the last time I saw it. They are very fast bows. He has a bad arm and very seldom shoots anymore. He was the man to beat at the shoots. Shoots guns the same way.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rusty in Fla.:
My 60# Martin Vision will go 217 with a carbon arrow.It is a RD longbow though.
The ad for the brown recluse shows a readout of 214.
The numbers mean nothing with gpp of arrow weight and drawlength.
AMO Standards?????
I always get a charge out of the "fast is good but accuracy is better" thing. Like you can only have one or the other.
No bow is any more or any less "accurate" than another. All things being equal, if you do the same thing every time, your arrow is going to do the same thing every time.
Accuracy falls on the shooter and his/her ability to do the same thing every time. Certian styles of bows make this easier to do for certain individuals, but that is still not a bow issue, it's a shooter issue.
Under controlled conditions, every bow is just as accurate as the next, regardless of the speed.
Turkeys, you're making too much sense. :thumbsup:
Turkeys....I agree with you, especially with your caveat that "certain styles of bows make this easier...." I have bows that allow me to set my bowhand a variety of different ways if I'm careless. I have another couple of bows that are much more difficult to "grip" differently. Of course this is just one example of how the bow design, condition, etc. can make it more or less difficult to replicate form, shot execution, and follow-through from shot to shot.
Yep, some bows are designed in such a way that it makes it more difficult for the shooter to mess up a shot but when all is said and done, it's the shooter that either messes it up or not.
The bow itself is as accurate as the shooter allows it to be...or not. Speed has nothing to do with it.
Think about this for a minute. Let's assume I have a bow, say a Black Widow, that fits me like a glove, the grip is perfect, brace height is just where I want it, draws smooth and I am accurate as can be with it. I mean I can absolutely drive tacks with this thing. I'm shooting an arrow that is 10 gpp at 183 fps. Let me take the same bow, same grip, same brace height, same string, silencers, everything is the same except for the fact that I am now using an arrow that is 8 gpp and traveling at 206 fps. Will this bow all of a sudden become inaccurate now that it's "fast?"
It's going to do what it's going to do, fast, slow or somewhere in between...unless of course I screw it up.
Turkeys: Based on what you are saying, then, it doesn't matter what bow a guy shoots. I, or anyone else, can pick up any bow and it will shoot equally well as any other bow. For some reason that does not coincide with my experiences nor does it make any sense, then, that any bowyer would want to experiment and see if he can make his bows better shooters. I have shot bows that, for me, were totally too sensitive and inconsistent. Not all bows are created equal although most high quality bows today are all very similar in many respects. I do agree wholeheartedly with you that accuracy trumps everything. But, given the choice, I would prefer a fast accurate arrow rather than a slow accurate arrow.
I like fast bows. But I also like to shoot in the 170's fps. it's just what I'm used to. So for me a fast bow gives me two great benefits; a heavier arrow...good for penetration. a lighter drawing bow...good for my beat up shoulder.
now that right there is a win/win situation :thumbsup:
As an arrow gets faster, the design of the broadhead and overall arrow flight is more critical and "finicky". We all want #1 accuracy.... due to : good arrow flight , hense well tuned, heavy arrows which equalls momentum on the arrow . Heavy arrows also quiet the bow. again another desired characteristic.
What we all want is quite simply a forgiving bow that has good cast, that feels good in the hand and we shoot accurately at hunting weight.
Some of you have convinced me - I'm going to Denton to find the slowest bow I can. Apparently they never miss and practicaly shoot themselves. :D
Good one Steve :biglaugh: ...Van
"As an arrow gets faster, the design of the broadhead and overall arrow flight is more critical and "finicky".
No stick bow is fast enough to make one iota of difference in this regard if the arrow spine is correct and the head spins true. My wheelie bow will shoot magnus, razorcaps, stos, and eclipse heads at 270fps with remarkable accuracy to 80 yds. My stickbows, well thats all up to me and they only shoot in the 180's.
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
Some of you have convinced me - I'm going to Denton to find the slowest bow I can. Apparently they never miss and practicaly shoot themselves. :D
:coffee: :archer2:
I recently had a very reputable bowyer tell me the fastest bows out there now are the R/D longbows. I would like to here some feedback on that. I had always assumed ( I know Iknow ) that a recurve would hold that place.
I just got a 80's Damon Howatt Hunter Recurve today (new to me)
It is 62" 90# at 28", who knows? It might be fast?
(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/90%20LBS%20Howatt/IMG00135-20100715-2356.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/90%20LBS%20Howatt/100_9857.jpg)
"Turkeys: Based on what you are saying, then, it doesn't matter what bow a guy shoots. I, or anyone else, can pick up any bow and it will shoot equally well as any other bow."
No, that's not actually what I said. You may want to go back and re-read my posts.
Whats the topic again?
Ill start.... Im shooting a 51 lbs @ 28 shooting 172 fps my arrow scales 532 gr. Im curious about others.
Mine is in my signature below.