Does anyone else notice that there *seems* to be a lot more Hill-style bows in the over-60# range?
I'd really like to know why? I know my 62# predator is waaaaaaaaaaay smoother and easier to hold than my 63# R/D. (I know that can vary widely from bowyer to bowyer.)
Is it a smooooothness thing?
Is it 'cause Hill himself drew heavy weights?
Is it the rotation of the earth?
I'll stick my 3 cents in... and it's getting very hard to find those 3 cent pieces... 8^)
I shoot light Hills... any more, mostly very light, but back when I was collecting them (at one point I had over 30) I found many more heavies than in other bow brands. No scientific studies or surveys, but I came to two conclusions, which probably feed each other. I think the fact that Howard shot heavies for most of his life had an awful lot to do with influencing others, and probably still does. However, he had to drop the weight as he aged. I have one of the last bows he built for himself, and it's 50#.
The thing that feeds into this and becomes a chicken/egg issue is that the particular style really does like heavy arrows and they in turn respond well to more draw weight. So you have a situation in which guys who like heavy arrows for large game gravitate toward a bow design that shoots such arrows well... or vice versa.
Because of this, you find a lot of chatter on Hill threads about or from guys who shoot the heavy weights. Others read that and feel like, "I gotta try it..." And so it goes.
It always concerns me a bit because I believe that shooting really heavy bows over a period of years, quite possible when you're younger, carries a high potential price when you're older... You may have to give up archery before you want to if you make it into your late 60's or 70's. I never shot real heavy, only up into the 50's, but a few years back I had to start dropping weight and now, at 72, my regular bow is 22#. A good afternoon session with 30 to 35 can cause enough pain to cost me the ability to shoot the second day of a 3D. Shooting somewhat lighter as a regular thing and building weight before the hunting season is probably a better long term plan. Used to be, most shooters had two bows, one for competition season and one ten pounds heavier for hunting.
My 3 Cents.
First point: Right now only a few bowyers make really heavy bows. Craig Ekin at Howard Hill, Big Jim at Big Jim's Bow Company, Nathan Steele at Bama Bows, JD Lund at WhisperStick, and a few others....
(Feel free to mention more Bowyers, i.e. Jim at Rudder Bows - (English War Bows) and Jack B. Harrison - Hill Style Bows).
So, the math says that a lot of the Heavy Bows will be made at Howard Hill Archery. Craig will still make them up to 200#.
Second point: My ACS CX R/C 55# @ 28" is super fast, super smooth, super quiet, and has zero hand shock. So, yeah, other bow styles feel and act differently. But, it ain't a D Shaped Howard Hill either.
Honda makes some great road bikes but Harley Davidson is still a "Harley" and a Hill is a "Hill"
The picture I post below will show my "Low Brow Testosterone" driven sense of humor and my philosophy.
(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/HH%20Half%20Breed/CIMG5601.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/HH%20Half%20Breed/CIMG5607.jpg)
Because they are probably the smoothest "Heavy" bow out there. I just picked up a 75er, no problems drawing the bow to anchor, as all my other Hills, it is stupid quiet with the right arrow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Raging Water:
My 3 Cents.
First point: Right now only a few bowyers make really heavy bows. Craig Ekin at Howard Hill, Big Jim at Big Jim's Bow Company, Nathan Steele at Bama Bows, JD Lund at WhisperStick, and a few others....
(Feel free to mention more Bowyers, i.e. Jim at Rudder Bows - (English War Bows) and Jack B. Harrison - Hill Style Bows).
So, the math says that a lot of the Heavy Bows will be made at Howard Hill Archery. Craig will still make them up to 200#.
Second point: My ACS CX R/C 55# @ 28" is super fast, super smooth, super quiet, and has zero hand shock. So, yeah, other bow styles feel and act differently. But, it ain't a D Shaped Howard Hill either.
Honda makes some great road bikes but Harley Davidson is still a "Harley" and a Hill is a "Hill"
The picture I post below will show my "Low Brow Testosterone" driven sense of humor and my philosophy.
(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/HH%20Half%20Breed/CIMG5601.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/HH%20Half%20Breed/CIMG5607.jpg)
good analogy matt! you nailed it! few other heavy bowyers that i have owned....saxon 85#, leon stewart slammers up to 95#, john fazio God rest his soul up to 92#, cascade, up to 80#, fred anderson 82#, robertson, up to 115#, matlock up to 90#, fedora, up to 90#, elburg up to 105#, damon howatt, up to 100# (there was a 147#er floating around a few years back) saluki up to 88#, new whippenstick coming 80# new centaur coming 80#. black swan 85# we wallace 75#. great northerns up to 85#. have owned numerous bears and brownings and even old hoyts over 80# black widow up to 85#...i know im leaving some out but there are a few bowyers that will venture out into heavy waters!
Gosh wish I could remember the guys name I met at the Texas State Longbow Championship a few years ago. He was shooting a 90+ (I think 94) pound HH. He was a big ole boy. Anyway he claimed to have the largest collection of HH bows of 100#'s or more in the world. He said that HH would personally sign all 100# and over bows. He could have been BSing of course...Van
I find myself shooting my 70# Hill much more than my other bows. It just calls to me. Smooth, powerful - it feels like a bow should feel. H
I shot my 85# Half Breed today at a 3 D shoot.
30 Targets.
I did get tired about number 25 but it was also about 90 degrees today.
I could have shot my ACS CX R/C 55# at 28" and scored better.
But I loved shooting my heavy Hill.
This is a neat thread and shows that Hill style bows can be used by anyone and everyone. At one extreme we have Dick shooting 22# and at the other extreme is Matt shooting 85#. I'm right in the middle at 54#.
The 68"-70" Hill bows pull very smooth.I have handed a few of my 65-70# Hills to fellas and after they draw them they always ask if I'm sure of the weight.
I shot an 80# Jerry Hill Elite 69" for years. I've dropped a few pounds these days at age 52 - down to the 60-65# range now. Still don't want anything but Hill-style bows whatever the poundage. I've owned a few Hills by Craig, don't have one right now but probably will order a new one from him within the next year. Just ordered a new Bama Bow from Nate Steele today.
Wow, I'm no fan of the Hills, but comparing them to a Harley; now that's just harsh ;-)
It is possible to shoot with more control, even though one may have a slightly shorter draw, with the Hill shooting style than with a totally straight back draw with a recurve. The style takes away the need to rotate the torso during the swing draw. Thus keeping the stronger muscles in alignment and a large portion of the draw taken up by simply bringing up the bow, leaving only a few inches of draw to complete. That straight grip also allows one to put the meaty muscles into play earlier and since there is less need to hold on target forever with a bow that points easy, why not go for some poundage? Hill did it for speed, but the bow design and the form allowed him to do it. For those that pull the entire draw in a straight line this will not make sense, but for those that use the Hill style pulling a long draw in a straight line will always seem unhandy and off line and harder to do.
I agree Yankee. Comparing Hills to Harleys gives Hills a bad name! Pup
Having said that insult to Harley owners, I'm still thinking about a Hill. In my case though, the bow will be shorter than most Hills and only about 42#@25 inches.The thought won't go away, even though I also lust after a Baraga, a Sarrels and a Don Dow. Pup
JMHO- Hill bows are made almost indistructable and why wouldn't you put your trust in a bow like that if you plan to shoot it at a heavy weight.And at heavy weight they are as smooth as a babies back end.With all the EFOC and the quest that bigger works better
Matt, I like the analogy to the Harley as well. :bigsmyl:
I agree with Matt about Hills. I have a Black Widow that I shoot the tighest groups out of but my Hill is more forgiving. For some reason I am drawn to the Hills. If you get one, take the time to commit to learning how to shoot it. As for the heavy weight. I prefer to shoot all year around with what I plan on hunting with. It would be hard to go to a multi-day shoot such as ATAR with a heavy bow. I want a bow I can shoot all day with and still hunt in the fall.
I have a few Hill's that range from 60 to 90 pounds @ 28....
I used to have a 80# Mamba...It stacked like a bear the last inch and a half to 28. Shot a 80# hill most of last summer and with the extra 10 inches of bow length it was smooth all the way back. If you enjoy a heavier bow they are much more pleasurable to shoot.
Mine is only 60lb, but very smooth.
Frank
Just had to post pictures of my new-to-me Howard Hill Wesley Special "Standing Bear".
It has it all. It is 68" 80# at 28". Checkered Grip and Two Silver Inlays, a Standing Bear and the other is a Bear Paw. A previous owner put on the snake skins. I love the looks and feel of this bow.
If you had to put a price tag on this bow, to have it made now, it would be lots of $$$$.
(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Howard%20Hill%20Bows/CIMG6227.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Howard%20Hill%20Bows/CIMG6228.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Howard%20Hill%20Bows/CIMG6230.jpg)
(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Howard%20Hill%20Bows/CIMG6242.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Howard%20Hill%20Bows/CIMG6244.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Howard%20Hill%20Bows/CIMG6243.jpg)
Next to the "Standing Bear" are its Brothers. 66" 85# at 28" Half Breed and 62" 66# at 28" Black Badger.
(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Howard%20Hill%20Bows/CIMG6225.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Howard%20Hill%20Bows/CIMG6226.jpg)
My "new-to-me" Howard Hill Big 5 68" and 50@28 could be here today.
I am pumped about the prospect of getting "my heavy weight" in my hands.
This handle shape on this one is a little different, it's kind of like a wedge. I hope to get along with it without any modifications.
The 1st one I owned that had this same grip bothered me to the point that I ended up skiving a piece of leather and installing it over the the back of the handle then re-gripping it with some nice elk skin, it worked like a dream.
We old folks can call any bow we want heavy...lol
God bless,Mudd
Would love to argue w/Dick about HH bows. But, I can;t. He's forgot more than I'll ever know & I've shot heavy Hills for 33 years straight. Much admire & respect him. Let's hear from Marlon & Leo & we'll just about have a Hill heavyweight consensus. There's Matt & Justin too. Good to have you mixed in Longstick. CR shoots a mean Hill too. I love these threads!
thanks, Straightera 8^) Not sure I'm really that knowledgeable. I've just thought about it a lot. Of course, those thoughts are really just opinions...
Just to show I'm not above doing doing a heavier Hill style, I recently built a 57# forward riser Hill style (monstrous heavy for me) that came out real well. I can't shoot it of course, but the guy that got it loves it. I think he's chasing deer with it right now in Oregon.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h186/CaptainDick/orion63.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h186/CaptainDick/orion70.jpg)
It'd be great to hear from Leo on this. But, he rarely posts on TG POW WOW.
Marlon? You out there?
Matt
It arrived today and.. can you say "Sweet!"
I'm getting along with the wedge handle this time.
I put some snake skin pull-on's or pull ups on it. The black glass on front and back were just too shiny for me to take to the woods.
This coming week I'll pick up a can of Plasti-dip in the spray can and fix it.
God bless,Mudd
Hey Matt,
What's the riser wood in that Half Breed? Nice lookin' bows.
Cocobolo.
It has a rust colored leather grip underneath the Prince Tennis Racket grip.
I put the tennis racket grip on there because it was hotter than hell this summer and that worked pretty well with the sweaty hands.
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/Bama%20Hunter%20and%20HH%20Big%205/DSC00938.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/Bama%20Hunter%20and%20HH%20Big%205/DSC00935.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/mudd57/Bama%20Hunter%20and%20HH%20Big%205/DSC00937.jpg)