Trad Gang

Do you guys think we should draw a line in the sand and spell out exactly what Traditional Archery and the equipment used should be???
I know at this site that only traditional archery is allowed. But what is the def. of traditional archery. lighted knocks?, carbon arrows?, mech.BH ect.??
With most of our new comers coming from compounds I am just afraid that we will sooner or later end up just like the muzzle loader guys. With electric discharger and rifles that shoot just as well or better in some cases as center fired rifles with high powered scopes.That ain't muzzle loading??..
I believe that a line should be drawn.....If not??? What will Traditional Archery look like 25 yrs from now??? 50 yrs from now??? I think that our past will be watered down to the point nobody will know what it was really like?? Look at what we have already lost?? The old timers can tell you .... but they ain't going to be around for ever to tell someone..

You draw your own line every time you make a choice on your equipment and how you use it.Archery and bowhunting is not a team sport so you don't need to try and draw lines for others.  :D  

Traditional archery will always be exactly as you want it to be.It will never be lost or changed in any way unless you change it yourself.When things get change it is always because someone wants to change someone else ideas instead of honoring there own.  :)

Excluding is a slippery slope, no doubt.  Stand for something and not against everything.  Be an example for others when bowhunting and 3D shooting your traditional gear.  The market will dictate what happens.

That's tough.  Traditional is mostly mentality and partly equipment, I think.   I agree with James, it's what you feel it should be.  It's also going to change a lot based on what's available.  For a while traditional meant 100% wood (bow and arrows) because carbon wasn't an option.  Some still hold that opinion today.  But I shoot a custom bow and carbon arrows and I would fight tooth and nail and say I'm shooting traditional.  I think most would agree that, as a bare minimum, traditional equipment can be defined as a sightless, non-wheelie bow...any other criteria is up for grabs.

It's one of those things you can feel in your bones but can't really define.

James I totally (respectfully) disagree. We all like to think that we are all doing what they were doing back in the 40's , 50's, 60's , and even 70's. But we are not . As a race we always gravitate towards what is easier. Or in our minds works better. So we replace things alittle at a time until what we started with looks  and has a differant feel about it years down the road.
Just as an example. Our arrows. I think we all know we started out with wooden shafts. then we excepted the alum. ..... all the way up to the presant day super light , super stiff arrows with very small dia. ..What will we except next??? I think everytime we except the new and toss away the old we move farther from the past... Of what traditional Archeryu truely is.
What kinda arrows will they be shooting 50 yrs from now??? If we could look into the future would we agree that it is still traditional archery or has it changed and twisted into something else... a victome of political correctness.
As for it not being a team sport I do see us all as a kind of brother hood . With common ethics and likes and loves... Would a large group  of healthy guys really be welcome to ATAR shooting compounds?? I myself would feel like they were out of place...

All I am saying is you draw your own line about some thinks.Not matter what your perfect idea of defining traditional archery is there will be those that will agree with you and many others with a different idea.You can tell others how to think about such things.  :)

You can put rules in place at events like ATAR that limit who attends so yes if carrying a compound you would soon see you were out of place there.Funny but even those guys in there minds would be just as traditional as you and have many of the same values if there choice in bows did not make them outcasts.  ;)  

You can dictake rules,have laws changed ect but you simply can't say "traditional" is this because it is not the same for everyone.This stuff is just too personal to draw lines for anyone but yourself unless like your example of ATAR it is just ment to exclude others. jmho

Traditional bows to me are those that are not compounds.That is my idea of where the line lays and as far as I need to go with a definition.  :)

I shoot and hunt with a recurve - metal riser, rest, and carbon arrows for the most post. If someone thinks they are hurting my feelings by not allowing me in their "traditional" mindset/group, I chuckle and never miss them.

James I agree with you to a point.
But I just know years and years from now long after we have past ... There will be a group traditional bowhunters setting around camp. And One will say " I heard that they use to shoot wooden arrows. Even saw one once in a book."
Then there will be some kinda bet on it????

Dang,sorry about all my typos.The battery in this keyboard is about gone.  :(  

I love metal risered recurves.Carbon arrows is the best thing that ever happened to a bowhunter.Simmons is the best broadhead design ever made.Longbows only come in one piece and two piece bows.If it is a 3 piece it is really just a recurve.Osage is the best bow wood.B-50 is only good for sewing.Just some of the lines drawn in my mind.  :D  

Of course while I am typing this I am working at straightening out some shoot arrows from a rose bush I pruned last week.Going to shoot them from a osage sliver I turned into a bow of sorts.Might use a simmons on them and the bow will have a 6 strand d-97 string on it.Got some turkey wings in the freezer for when I need feathers.

You see why it would be hard for me to draw a line for someone else?I am the same and don't change the way I feel, act or think if I am shooting my metal risered bows with carbon arrows and lighted nocks or trying to get the kinks out of these shoots.How can I define any of this for someone else.  :biglaugh:

Short and to the point: No

No matter how traditional we think we are, these people have us beat hands down.    :cool:    They have generations of family members who have been hunting this way longer than I know of. I imagine there are no lines in the sand with these people, only food on the table.   :thumbsup:  


  (http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6343/pirahahunter3792136.jpg) (http://img824.imageshack.us/i/pirahahunter3792136.jpg/)

  (http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5088/pxhadzabe2003hunt053932.jpg) (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/pxhadzabe2003hunt053932.jpg/)

  (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2743/efebowman4017372.jpg) (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/efebowman4017372.jpg/)

I've been shooting trad bows since '95.  A LOT has changed since then, that's for sure.  For example, if a guy said he was shooting carbon arrows, he was tarred and feathered!  LOL!

QuoteOriginally posted by James on laptop:
You draw your own line every time you make a choice on your equipment and how you use it.Archery and bowhunting is not a team sport so you don't need to try and draw lines for others.   :D  

Traditional archery will always be exactly as you want it to be.It will never be lost or changed in any way unless you change it yourself.When things get change it is always because someone wants to change someone else ideas instead of honoring there own.   :)  

Well said James....   :deadhorse:

QuoteJames I agree with you to a point.
But I just know years and years from now long after we have past ... There will be a group traditional bowhunters setting around camp. And One will say " I heard that they use to shoot wooden arrows. Even saw one once in a book."
Then there will be some kinda bet on it????

Well there is one sure way to stop that from happening and you don't have to draw lines.You just make a line of your own to keep the fires burning when you are gone.   ;)  Maybe someone from your line will be at that camp fire to win the bet. There is only one sure way for traditional values to survive.The same as it always has.  :biglaugh:

  (http://funhunts.homestead.com/1funshoot09.jpg)

I agree with Arwin, when it comes down to it traditional will always be as it always has been.
A stick and string, with wood or reed arrows. Has been this way from the start and will still be that way in the end no matter what happens in between.

The only thing that will be different is those that choose to do things the easy way in between will have to relearn to shoot an actual bow if they want meat to eat. This is assuming that civilization as we know it comes to an end and man is forced to learn to live without mass production and other by products of civilization.

In this case a large portion of the population will perish because of the modern lazyman, do it the easy way, Govt take care of me, I'm for change mindset.

I see this as a good thing for the rest of us!    :archer:

I agree one needs to draw their own line in the sand and what's traditional to one fella won't be to the next, but I understand what String Cutter is saying.  Lighted nocks being shot from a traditional bow makes me wanna cringe (just my opinion).  But so did carbon arrows ten years ago.  Guess I learned to accept them.  All I know is that I'm starting to make my own cedar arrows again, after seven years of shooting aluminum.  Sure do like the smell of cedar!  And there will be no cap wraps or fletching tape on 'em either.  Glue and paint baby, glue and paint.

Like I said, one man's traditional won't meet the next guy's criteria.  To me, I think a guy's sense of ethics and morals should be more traditional than his equipment.  Some of my best friends shoot compounds and I would rather hunt with them than some of the fellas I know that shoot traditional.

Traditional Archery is about equipment. It changes over time.  1860's 1920's 1950's 1990's 2010's. I think the line in the sand moves periodically. That line is pushed by inventions/improvements for $$.


I'd rather hold my values as a Traditional Bowhunter than Traditional Archer. Those values should never change.

QuoteOriginally posted by James on laptop:
You draw your own line every time you make a choice on your equipment and how you use it.Archery and bowhunting is not a team sport so you don't need to try and draw lines for others.   :D  

Traditional archery will always be exactly as you want it to be.It will never be lost or changed in any way unless you change it yourself.When things get change it is always because someone wants to change someone else ideas instead of honoring there own.   :)  

Very well said. The only guys that are really worried about this stuff are the target shooters.
We'll always have some guys around that make their own wood bows and cane arrows. The history is there and the best part of bowhunting is; you can make it as hard or as easy as YOU choose.
Labels be damned.

Guys like Pearson, HIll and Bear were always trying to improve on their equipment...making bows faster and more accurate, using aluminum and fibergalss arrow, developing better braodheads.They even used phenolic and metal in their risers and developed take down bows. I think if you draw a line in the sand it would be a mistake and our small numbers would shrink even more. Who really needs another arguement about what traditional is or isn't. As long as you are shooting a bow without wheels, eccentrics, etc. then it is traditional to me. I don't even mind shooting with compound guys/gals as long as they are good people and ethical. I choose my equipment because it makes me a better shooter and the only line I draw is that I will shoot a recurve and on occaision a longbow. If it is made with super modern materials. so what? Like I said, Pearson, Bear, Groves, Lee and other were always trying to improve their bows. A few years ago I hurt my left eye....almost lost it. I have played around with the idea of a fixed sight but if I shoot enough I am usually good to go. But the idea keeps coming back to "haunt" me. If I decided to put a sight on my bow and it made a significant difference in my ability to kill an animal would I be less traditioal or just adapting to my injury?
Where would you draw the line? Probably not where I would.

right on joebuck

I think I've personally been from one end of the spectrum to the other. The difference is that I've not lost a thing by finding out what I like or dislike about all aspects of "my" traditional or "my" (not so much) bows and accessories.

Apparently "traditional" isn't defined by time but more by mind. The simplicity of archery can be defined by your attitude and approach.

I know for a fact that I felt as authentic as I could ever feel with my "Urban Survival bow" made by my own hands. I  set out to prove to myself that I could make a bow that I could kill stuff with even if faced with nothing to build a bow from other than what I could pick up in Westlakes Hardware. Two oak dowels, a section of pvc pipe and I had a longbow that I used to take game using it and some ramin wood arrows, also from Westlakes.

I knew Geronimo couldn't have done any better..lol He was a traditionalist too you know..lol

The real trick is that I never gave up anything. I still have all kinds of bows and all kinds of arrows.... I know the differences between them all plus the things that I love and hate about all of them.

Have a blessed day and try to save the baby when you throw out the bath water..lol

Remember nothing is lost by what you try, only what you fail to try or forget! IMHO

God bless,Mudd

I just reread your original post. I consider myself an old timer. All I can say is that because of imporvements in design and materialas I am still in the game at 66 and my wife can hunt with me with her DAS recurve because of the improved performance she gets from it. She doesn't need a compound to hunt with. And, as an old timer I can tell you that things were not always as good as we remember them being. The biggest change, sadly, has been in attitudes regarding equipment. Back in the day when someone came up with a new idea that made improvements in shooting no one said it wasn't traditional or unfair. Most of us tried new things, held on to the ones that worked for us and shot right alongside the others who adopted the new ideas. Because compound bows and inline muzzle loaders have evolved into what they are does not mean that recurves and longbows will become something different. If they become better because of research, new materials, etc. we all stand to gain.

And, again, as an oldtimer, some of the modern advances make it possible for those that need them to stay in the game, as I have already indicated. I am not at all interested in someone else, even if they call themselves "traditional" trying to limit my choices by offering up a definition of what I should or should not be shooting. My fish and game dept. sets the rules for the weapons I can hunt with and I abide by them but always with the recurve as my choice of weapons. It matters little what your bow and arrows are made of. When you draw back the string and release the arrow it is joyful and when I do that I am not at all thinking about what my equipment is made of or looks like. It is still what I know and what I can do that gets that arrow where I want it to go.

Assuming one is caucasian, if they want to go to the 20th century American roots, then their attire should often consist of a starched white buttondown shirt, silk tie and a smart fitted jacket, wool slacks and well oiled Russell boots and proper hat. Handkerchief tucked into suit jacket pocket is optional.

If one wishes to wear a wool Mackinaw, the original coats came only in blue. Plaid Mackinaw coats only came after the blue dye ran in short supply.

Of course, if one wishes to be a little more trad, they can reach back to the 18th century...

Eighteenth Century Revival

At the end of the eighteenth century archery became popular amongst the English gentry thanks to a fashion for the gothic, curious and medieval. Encouraged by Royal patronage and, later, the popularity of the work of Sir Walter Scott, archery societies were set up across the country, each with its own strict entry criteria, outlandish costumes and extravagant balls. The clubs were 'the drawing rooms of the great country houses placed outside' and thus came to play an important role in the social networks of local elites. As well as its emphasis on display and status, the sport was notable for its popularity with females. Young women could not only compete in the contests but retain and show off their 'feminine forms' whilst doing so. Thus archery came to act as a forum for introductions, flirtation and romance.

I hope everyone understands the point of the above. Defining beauty, explaining humor or religion is just as futile as defining traditional archery/hunting in a concrete way that everyone agree's upon.

I try not to cringe when I see these posts related to "what is...or what is not.....traditional".   :readit:  


Really guys......what's next......a "line in the sand" drawn between longbow shooters and recurve shooters?


You do what you do and use what you use.....hopefully because it pleases you and it's what you enjoy.     :readit:

OK enough    :deadhorse:

BTW....I fall in to the "B-50" crowd......I would never want to be caught associating with that D-97 crowd!    :nono:

There is no doubt that equipment improvements have been made.

The new materials I make strings from do not stretch anywhere near what they used to. I can send a carbon arrow careening through the trees, slapping and crashing it`s way to a stop, and NOT be surprised when I find it unharmed. My climbing treestand is as comfortable as a chair in my living room, and safety is vastly improved.
Through THIS internet forum, I have learned alot, saving possibly YEARS of trial and error.
Shooting and tuning skills, greatly improved.

I don`t look at these improvements as making things easier...just better. Carbon arrows alone make things better because they save me money with their durability. Translation...BETTER!

I`m not worried about our past being "watered down". It is alive and well. Everyday life is more challenging than ever, and in spite of this, people are making sure this "traditional" thing is remaining well taken care of.

"Lines.....we don't need no stinkin' lines".....  :archer2:

It isn't like compound bows with draw locks don't already exist. People choose traditional for it simplicity. How complex that simplicity becomes is up to the individual. The only place for "rules" to seperate one group of archers from another IMO is competition...and I believe that should be done with the following groups...

For "regular 3D" shoots...

1. Compounds "Open class" - anything goes except draw locks...as a bow should be drawn at the stake as is done in the field.

2. Compound "Hunter class" with limits on types of sights and stabilizers suitable for hunting. I don't know enough about such to define such classes. No draw locks.

3. Traditional "Open class" - olympic types of "traditional" bows w/ stabilizers or whatever else type of gadget one wishes to use. Perhaps a class with and another class without sights. (LBs or Recurves...w/ any type of arrow)

4. Traditional "Hunter Class" - LB's and Recurves. No sights or stabilizers. Bowquivers permitted. Any type of arrow. I believe modern longbows are able to shoot on an equal playing field as recurves.

5. Primitive class - non-glass/non-carbon bows with wood arrows. Even then, one isn't really "traditional" unless they also use either rawhide or sinew strings.

For "traditional only" shoots...

1. Traditional "Hunter Class" - LB's and Recurves. No sights or stabilizers. Bowquivers permitted. Any type of arrow. I believe modern longbows are able to shoot on an equal playing field as recurves...but should one wish to seperate LBs and recurves that too is fine as long as there is ALSO a "top shooter" designation.

2. Primitive class - non-glass/non-carbon bows with wood arrows. Even then, one isn't really "traditional" unless they also use either rawhide or sinew strings.

3. Youth - A. 11-15 & B. 10 and under.

That's just what I need.
Someone who wasn't even born when I started shooting to tell me whether I am traditional or not, when I am shooting a 1970 Grizzly with the sight I bought for it that same year.

Gimme a break.
Killdeer~ and I was in SUCH a good mood.  

I'm with Killdeer on this one.

The only good thing about guys that try to draw lines on what other people do is that they end up with one line - a circle around themselves.

That is generally best for everyone involved.

R

I find this all very, well..... I'll have me another cup of coffee.

Continue on...   :archer2:

Does anyone else find it amusing that we are discussing what should or should not be allowed in "traditional" archery over the internet?  Well, at least it's the "traditonal" internet; no blogs or tweets or IM's or Facebook Friends for us!

QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
We'll always have some guys around that make their own wood bows and cane arrows. The history is there and the best part of bowhunting is; you can make it as hard or as easy as YOU choose.
Labels be damned.

:thumbsup:

I'm with Bill.  No wheels.  Anything you want to use with that no wheeled bow is cool.  To me it's all about the bow.  Not the arrow or accessories...Van

Like some others have alluded to: traditional/traditions are either made by others and passed down or created by us and passed down. We as "traditional archers" have a responsibility :to the future generations to teach them what we have learned and enjoy so to hopefully enhance their lives and generations to come ,and to give them a certain sense of self and who we are and who they are . Where they come from. These are old school values and in a big way have been lost to the majority. It's a darn shame.  

Lines I think we need lots of lines: our history had lots of lines it kept us grounded and we knew where we stood we took pride in our selves and pride in who we were. As people of our community, church, schools, and any other organizations.
one big problem with the world today and in my opinion with this country today is we as a people have erased all the lines (yes some were bad)and in doing so we have lost all sense of who we are, our place in society and in life is in many cases undefined its all up to us be what u want but don't draw lines ." live and let die" mentality everyone is equal, don't judge , keep your opinions to your self ,if you see /hear something you don't like just walk/run away, change the channel, buy a new one don't fix it!!!!!=don't stand for anything, follow the easy non-confrontational path .I don't like something but what can I do about it. Follow the leader he must know what to do.

Sorry i'm ranting.


But anyway we need to be defined as a people, a community, we are traditional archers but we are few, weak and divided. I fear we are history, if we don't get our heads out of where the sun don't shine and become the brotherhood we claim to be and so desire to be. We need to have unity to survive we need to accept each other and teach the future we need lines and we need them now! We must choose and commit and BE who we claim to be, or we are dead to the future.

Hey do I have to hunt naked,or can i wear a loin cloth,if you wear pants,can we make a exception,for December....Dave Weiner

In regards to the original post, I don't think anything has been lost. Be it history, lore or whatever.

I still say "Traditional Archery" is in the heart of the hunter, not in their hand.

Some states that have "Traditional Archery Only" areas or hunts have a legal definition, but like most efforts to codefy a mostly emotional response to something, it falls short.

I have said it many times before. Traditional is, as Traditional does. Shooting a longbow or recurve doesn't make you a Traditional Archer, it makes you a traditional tackle owner. Being a Traditional Archer is about how you conduct yourself in the field, in public and at home.

OkKeith

please no loin cloths lmao

"Do you guys think we should draw a line in the sand..."

You go right ahead.  The problem with "lines in the sand" is they often turn into fault lines and before you know it, one side is an island.

Very interesting post, I see both sides on this one. I do feel the same way about the high tech muzzle loaders, in southern Michigan we have a no rifle rule for safety, but it is ok to use the new high tech muzzle loaders that are pretty much equal to a rifle ? I have had every trick wheelie and non wheelie bows made (even oneida's) changed bows every 2 years, sometimes yearly. Now I am shooting a longbow with cedar arrows and don't see any changes in my future. I started bowhunting in 1974 was practicing very seriously in 73 and couldn't wait to go hunting. Started with a used Pearson bought at a garage sale. But in reality, that was not traditional, I used aluminum arrows. A buddy tells me now I'm not traditional, I should be using stone broad heads, and just a stick, not a laminated bow. I'm confused on this one, I see both sides of this story.

I like the meaning of this day than the meaning of traditional archery, independance.I dont think it needs any defining.From what Ive seen from threads along this line, I think a lot of folks who want to define traditional want it to be defined to their liking.Youd be a whole lot more content if you come to your own definition and stick to that for yourself.We havent lost all that much in relation to traditional archery, you can still harvest your own staves, canes, sinew for strings and backings and knap your own points the way our predecessors did when there wasnt a choice. The technology is still there for the taking for anyone willing to learn and practice.Not trying to offend anyone and Im not taking offense to this post but these are my thoughts.

QuoteWe need to have unity to survive we need to accept each other and teach the future we need lines and we need them now! We must choose and commit and BE who we claim to be, or we are dead to the future.
 

Where are those lines?

Why can't we accept it all as Archery or Bowhunting, we'll have a better chance at preserving our sport this way, rather than being divided. There are many who would love for us to fight each other rather than them, them being Gov't regulations on what to use and how to use it. Traditional Archery is a form of Archery, Defend Archery and just enjoy your version of it and forget about everything else.

The only addition I have in my equipment today that I didn't have 46 years ago  ,when I bought my first bow hunting license, is now I shoot carbon arrows verus fiberglass.I don't need anybody drawing any lines for me.

Well the model T Ford isn't around anymore and most would say its a good thing. I don't know but I do know that man will always look for easier, "better" ways to do things and while I don't subscribe to that line of thinking others do and they are the majority and the way of the future. Just shoot what you like and let the others do what they want. Frank

QuoteI don't need anybody drawing any lines for me. [/QB]

Exactly. I get enough of that crap at work. When I go hunting or out in the backyard to shoot my bow, I dont care what the rest of the archery world shoots, and they shouldn't worry about the equipment I use.

Right on Killder . String Cutter all your bows are high tech. No self bow and do you use only stone tips ? bet your target tips are high carbon steal.Do you cut your fletchings out with a stone knife or do you buy them buy the bag pre cut and dyed. I do not think your Trad . This stuff should be fun. Use whats fun for you.

its all trad its alll either traditions from the past or traditions we are making for ourselves ...why is this so flippin difficult ? why do people have to get all damd defensive ? stop fighting eachother and start fighting with each other.this is the oldest and flippin stupidest arguement in the history of archery .!!! if your getting defensive your missing the big picture !!! if you want to be a loner than un plug and go play ball by yourself ! otherwise gust listen and think about how we can resolve this issue and how you can do your part.

Tradition - an inherited pattern of thought or action.

Picture a boy, his father just bought this weird bent piece of wood from the archery shop, his son is gleaming up at him.  The first recurve bought in this small farm town, the boy grows older, his dad taught him that this bent stick is more accurate with a metal pin as a sight, after all they survived on meat.  That boy shot his very own bent stick in front of his little boy.  The boy now a father himself teaches his boy that a bit of weight on the riser helps keep it steady.  The boys son provides a grandson.  The grandson learns from his father that it is much easier to carry arrows on a quiver that sticks to the bow.  Get the drift . . .

Man I must not be very traditional, I hunt from the ground with a 55# take down recurve with fiberglass in it, and carbon arrows with the latest in high carbon steel broadheads that were sharpened by the latest and greatest sharpener.  Not to mention the 15 extra pounds of camera gear on my back    :eek:  , or the video camera on the tripod next to me.  I don't care who you are filming yourself is just as hard if not harder than hunting with a longbow and wooden arrows.

I fletch my arrows while watching the television in a house that is climate controlled and with the aid of florescent bulbs.  I drive in a 2000 Ford F150 to my hunting destination after stopping at the gas station using a mechanical pump to get the gas from the well.  To perfect my form I used the aid of digital cameras and camcorders, and I bought my hunting license online.  To top it all off when I am successful on my hunts I not only take pictures with my digital camera, but I post a story about it on a traditional bowhunting website with the aid of a Dell computer with a 22 inch HD screen.

New advances in technologie are bad.  Look at what is has done to fly fishing, now everyone can do it    :biglaugh:  

Okay a line needs to be drawn, but not among us, I think we all know where to draw the line, and that line has no business between recurves/longbows, carbon/wood, b-50/d97, vanes/fletching, sight/sightless
   :deadhorse:

ifyouwant to getmad at me cause i told you to stop dumping your defensive crap and non helpfull posts than pm me all your angery vomit but lets try to focuse on positive thoughts on how to fix this family and its petty sybling rivalrie.so we can be a strong family withinfluence and traditions to pass down for generations to come.

String Cutter I say (with all respect) I think if you draw a line and push everyone out that shoots carbon shafts or modern recurves you may very well find yourself in 50 years with nobody to tell about "the good old days."  I think as a society humans are intelligent and will always be "tinkering" to make what we do easier or better.  I don't think shooting a carbon shafted arrow makes our sport less traditional, I think it makes us innovative. I bet if the gentlemen above shooting in the jungle had access to carbon arrows they would be shooting them.

a.c your right about that !!! i bet if you gave the american indians hybread bows and arrows with steel tips the would have kicked our azzes too .

no american Indians are in it for food, that is why they dont hunt with bows anymore!  They sure jumped on the use of the 30/30

I vote James Wrenn for President

Okay a line needs to be drawn, but not among us, I think we all know where to draw the line, and that line has no business between recurves/longbows, carbon/wood, b-50/d97, vanes/fletching, sight/sightless

amen to that brother
 :bigsmyl:    :thumbsup:    :campfire:

one needs to be first drawn between ourselves and the people who want to take our right to hunt and have our hunting equipt.away from us and generations to come

First rule of traditional archery:


Camp Fires Only,


NO INTERNET!!!!


...and no carbon...

  :laughing:

chris they used bow and arrow for hunting and warfair as well. we use it for hunting and fun but if i run out of ammo you better believe im grabbin by bow and quiver , if things continue on the path this country is on and things go "code brown".

sorry soilarch but campfires have carbon

I wish the term Traditional Archery would go away. Forty some years ago when I statrted it was called archery. They aren't doing anything different today than 40 some years ago.

I posted a rather lengthy answer to this same question a while ago. I thought I might recycle it since I still feel the same way about the subject.

I really don't think it is all that important that we agree on what "Traditional Archery" really is. I think we all already agree that it is important to us what ever it is.

Read it, don't read it. Agree, don't agree, makes me no never mind. I'm not gonna think less of someone because they don't agree with me on something as esoteric as a definition of "Traditional Archery".


MARCH 12, 2009-
Well... I suppose to define traditional it would be necessary to define a baseline of what we are trying to go back to, a standard for traditional. "Traditional" does mean, "long-established, or time-honored". What should be the representation of that standard? Should our standard be the American Indian? I don't think so, they (I include myself in that they) bailed on the bow and arrow as soon as firearms were available to them (us). Why? They worked better! There was no phony spiritual whohaw about the magic flight of the arrow. A rifle brought down game and enemies at a farther distance and with greater authority. This was important because survival was the name of the game, not lookin' good at the 3-D shoots.

How about the image of Ye Olden Archer? Again, this doesn't really work for me either. First there were crossbows and then matchlocks, and then wheel locks, and then flintlocks etc. etc. etc... These took the place of archery equipment in war fighting. Why? Again, they worked better at the job they were required to do. There were some who held to the use of archery equipment because it was a quiet way to kill the King's Deer without being caught.

I hate to say this (I really do but I gotta) TRADITIONAL IS AS TRADITIONAL DOES! The GPS is no more or less traditional than miracle fabric long-johns (I'm not going to do without those) or an illuminated dial watch. I believe "Traditional Hunting" is not what you hunt with; it's all about HOW you hunt with it. I have good friends who shoot compounds that are very traditional minded. My opinion is that traditional hunting equipment is a product of a traditional hunting mind set.

So, is a GPS traditional as far as archery goes? Sure. If that is what you need to be safe where you hunt and it allows you to go farther, trek deeper and hunt longer or harder... Get yourself one and use it. If my ancestors had access to a GPS in the 16th and 17th centuries while they roamed around in the swamps of Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama and Tennessee, I guarantee they would have used it. If sitting in a tree makes you more successful or is a better way for you to hunt, use it. Would Ye Olden Archer have sat in a tree stand? You bet. The Sheriff of Nottingham would never have seen what was coming.

Once more, this is my opinion. The reason traditional hunting is so difficult to define is that each of us has our own point of view defined by our own experience. How can someone who has never hunted in their life, coming from a family who never hunted have a hunting tradition at all? They would have to borrow one.

My personal tradition is to shoot recurves. It is what I grew up with, all I really knew until I got out in the world on my own. It fits the way I like to do things. It compliments my traditional nature. Picking up a long bow or a recurve (with or without sights) doesn't make you a traditional hunter. Hunting traditionally (regardless of equipment) does.

OkKeith

quote:

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Originally posted by Killdeer:
That's just what I need.
Someone who wasn't even born when I started shooting to tell me whether I am traditional or not, when I am shooting a 1970 Grizzly with the sight I bought for it that same year.

Gimme a break.
Killdeer~ and I was in SUCH a good mood.    :biglaugh: