What is bowhunters parradox? We discuss. :dunno:
I am not sure what you are asking for here. The archers paradox is basic. It will happen iif the spine fits your bow the paradox is even. If the spine is to stiff or to week then it will push away from the bow or bend around it.
It is arrow flight is not an effect on it.
Zeno\\'s Paradox of the Arrow (http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/ZenoArrow.html)
i think this answers your question(s) perfectly (tongue in cheek of course) :saywhat:
Maybe so but doesn't the bowhunters parradox affect wheather or not the arrow hits the target straight, or at a weird angle?
The paradox effects the arrow. Your tunning affects how the arrow strikes the target.
I think you mean the Archer's Pradox.
Overcoming, or rather, matching the deflection of the arrow to the amount of Paradox exerted upon it is paramount to good arrow flight. If you have too much flex in the shaft, the Paradox is magnified & creates poor arrow flight, possibly even breaking the arrow. Too little flex & the arrow cannot flex enough to compensate for the uneven accelleration of the rear of the arrow trying to overtake the front, caused by the string deflection coming off your fingers, also creating poor arrow flight.
In essence, the Archer's Paradox is EVERYTHING to do with arrow flight.
You may want to try doing a few searches on You Tube. There are some spectacular super slow-mo videos that show exactly what happens whenyou drop the string.
I have seen a few of those videos and thank for correcting me on that. I finished Ed Ashbys study and it looked like he had really found a good way for best penetration. 12 years of combined work is a long time. I finished tuning my bow not to long ago. its an acs adcock 64'' longbow. it took me a long time to figure out what was wrong, figured id see what this whole parradox thing was about.
Just for clarification, what an arrow shaft does upon release is "oscillate" or "flex."
"Archer's Paradox" refers to the question as to why an arrow would hit a target when, from all appearances when placed on the bow, it should strike to one side or the other.
Arrows don't "paradox" nor are they "in paradox."
Archers parradox decides what angle the arrow hits the desired target. Is that correct? Because that is what i have found in tuning my bow unless the parradox wasnt the problem
in tuning your bows you have found knowingly or not that the arrow spine when not harmonicly matched to your bow and you causes the arrow to hit at a different angle. As stated before Paradox is the question. It is in refferance to the flexing of the arrow in flight. The spine of your arrow when matched to your bow will creat a perfect ocilatioin that will strike the target true.
Yes i have found that. Right now my bow works good with a little bit of a weaker spine
This poll is gunna be intrestin cause of the conflicting advice. oh well i will be here just in case anyone needs me
More arrow flight info (http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/FlexFletchArrowFlight.shtml)
And here is some more info that isn't "tongue in cheek".
Turkeys Fear Me has the correct definition of Archer's paradox and related terms. I'm surprised by the amount of misinformation/lack of understanding on this topic. :)
I don't think that this topic is talked about very much. Actually most of the bow hunters i know dont know what it is
thx for the info rastaman. what kinda bow you shoot
Here is the Wiki explanation of Archer's Paradox.
Click the link below
Archer\\'s Paradox. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer%5C%5C's_paradox)
I'm a bit confused here also. :confused:
The paradox is extremely important when clearing the riser of the bow. If an incorrect spine is used, then there will be flight issues. An arrow must be spined correctly to oscillate at just the right frequency to "bend around" the bow.
doesnt the parradox have to do with the way the arrow hits also? and norseman u cant click on your link for whatever reason
Fixed the link...sorry.
Sent you a pm Clint!
Thanks ratsman. norseman im guessing u lik the vikings
pm sent back at cha
Axis......I don't LIK the vikings.....that would likely get ones tongue taken off....LOL....sorry had to do that.
My heritage is Norwegian.
Norseman: the link still doesn't work for me.
BobCo: Don't know what you mean in your first sentence, but the rest of what you say is correct.
First, lets look at the definition of a paradox. Webster's Collegiate Dictionary defines paradox as "contrary to expectation." Archer's paradox is a term coined back in the day when most bows were self-bows and not cut to center or past center. Thus, when an arrow was placed on the shelf, if there was one, the arrow pointed way to the left for a right handed shooter, to the right for a left handed shooter. Looking at the arrow on the bow, the "expectation" was that the arrow would shoot way to the left (or right for a left handed shooter). However, when the arrow was shot, it hit the target straight in front of the shooter, "contrary to expectation." It was, in fact an archer's paradox. Why did it go straight when it appeared it would go to the left. The reason the arrow flies straight out of the bow (In fact, it actually occilates as it passes the riser and as it moves downrange.) is that it is spined correctly for the bow, enabling it to bend around the riser and right itself as it travels downrange. Thus, the concept of archer's paradox is related to matching arrow spine to the bow, but they're not the same thing. Hope this helps. :archer2:
Haha sorry bout that norseman. Orion your explanation is very helpful. ps what kind of bow do you shoot your self and when did some of the first known longbows come into existence? just wondering if youd happen to know
http://www.archeryweb.com/archery/paradox.htm
Thanks for fixing the link Robert
Yep, Bobco. That's it. Definition is in the first line. Thought it might have been Elmer who labeled it, but wasn't sure.
Axis. No idea when first longbows came into existence, at least 10,000 years ago, probably more. I've been shooting sticks for more than 50 years. I shoot everything -- self-bows, longbows, hybrids, recurves.
are there many hybrids on the market?
yes
which ones are you crazyiest about? if you get what i mean
Cari-bow Peregrine without any doubt..... read Pete Ward's review... http://peteward.com/test.Perigrine.html
i hav heard a lot of guys talk about these cari bows but i havnt seen one or herd of them until today
Archers paradox: the fishtailing or oscillation of the arrow when leaving the bow. Has of course a lot to do with how much center-cut a bow is. How more centercut, the less spine sensitive a bow is. You want after release the arrow to flex enough not to hit the riser, but not so much that yu get a poor , erratic arrow-flight.
In theory, when you are way under-spined, an wooden arrow might just break due to this paradox.
By bare-shafting or papertuning you can get the proper spine-value and solve this paradox. Stu Miller will get you in the ballpark.
i bareshaft and also paper tune my arrows i hav the right combo on my bow the bowhunters parradox was the problem that kept me from figuring out the proble until i realized thats what it was. so i decided to learn more about it
ttt
ttt
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/kyTJ/Colorado%202008/CJL_9092-2640.jpg)
Great pic TJ. I'll have to do this to see how far my hand comes away from my face...? It is amazing how much an arrow, that we feel is stiff, flexes as it leaves the bow and in flight.
Yeah Snag, I never even realized I did that until I saw the photos. I did know however I was a terrible shot and after this I knew one of the reasons.
I have some more photos at home that the camera caught the arrow wrapping around my riser that are really cool looking. That was a 500 spined GT 3555 arrow shaft.
The other part of archer's paradox, which you can see if you look closely at TJ's excellent picture, is that the bow hand moves slightly to the right when the arrow is shot (for a RH shooter), from the initial pressure of the arrow against the strike-plate. This is another reason the arrow flies toward the target even though it is pointed to the left of the target at full draw.
This effect is noticed when shooting an arrow from a shooting machine that doesn't allow the bow hand to move to the right, which causes the arrows to impact to the left.
QuoteOriginally posted by Orion:
BobCo: Don't know what you mean in your first sentence, but the rest of what you say is correct.
You mean the part of me being confused...??? :D
Below is a good illustration:
(http://www.meta-synthesis.com/archery/paradox1.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by Axis Hunter:
i hav heard a lot of guys talk about these cari bows but i havnt seen one or herd of them until today
Do a search on Cari-bow Peregrine here, and you can read all about it! :)
BobCo
Being an NAA Level 2 instructor have you ever seen Werner Beiter's video The Way to the Center? There is a mis-conception that the arrow has one node or bend in it as the arrow moves around the arrow shelf on the bow. The Beiter video takes advantage of newer high speed video equipment that shows that the arrow has several nodes in it all the way to the target (an arrow looks like a snake as it progresses all the way to the target). The arrow never becomes straight. The first time I saw the video I was shocked! The other thing to take note of, if you get to see the video is how much the handle section of the bow flexes (both recurves and compounds). The Beiter web site is an interesting place to look around. Beiter caters to Olympic program shooting.
Bobco: I was referring to your second sentence. "The paradox is extremely important when clearing the riser of the bow."
The illustration you provide shows that the arrow bends around the riser and continues to occilate as it travels down range. However, the term to describe that phenomenon is not paradox, but arrow occilation or bending of the arrow. Substitute either of those words for the word paradox in your sentence, and it is accurate. Archer's paradox is a result contrary to expectation. You obviously get it because you subsequently provided the link to Elmer's definition of paradox, the guy who coined the term. However, a lot of folks continue to use the word paradox to mean arrow occilation/bending, even after your post. That's not what paradox/archer's paradox is. :deadhorse:
a bowhunters paradox >>>------> Pope & Ashby
In BobCo's illustration, it shows that the string travels along the centershot line after it is released. Actually, this is not the case. When the string rolls off the fingers, it immediately travels sharply to the left (right hand shooter). This is what starts the oscillation in the first place.