Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: DeerSpotter on June 25, 2010, 09:46:00 PM

Title: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: DeerSpotter on June 25, 2010, 09:46:00 PM
I had a bow made, it was in march, and I had two other bows made by a different Bowyer, he gave me the limb tips I wanted, burned in an image on each side of the riser like I wanted, and the weight came out perfectly, matter of fact, this Bowyer made two bows to get the one I wanted right before he even showed me the finished bow.  To say the least I'm very happy with the bows he made for me.

But I want to know if I have an attitude, and I should just get over it, or is there a "cure" for what I'm about to show you.

I had a Bowyer send me a photo of sheep horn, it looked great I liked it, and it looked good this is the same photo I was sent.  I know that sheep horn can vary.

  (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/BowNow/jpg.jpg)  


This is what was sent to me on the bow, quite the difference.  Matter of fact it's the opposite, and my attitude is I can't stand the white limb tips.

  (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/BowNow/IMG_2731.jpg)

  (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/BowNow/IMG_2742.jpg)  


I will give you a little bit info, the bow it has fabulous woods in it, the workmanship is superb, but I can tell it is 1 1/2 to 2 LB. More than what it says it is, that's OK,

My question is can anything be done to get rid of the white on sheep horn, to be fair to the Bowyer, he has offered to take the bow back and redo it.BUT I like the looks and the feel of the bow.  Am I gonna have to get over it, and chill.

It is the most I have ever spend for a bow.  I was so mad I want to send it back and get my money back.  I have had two others tell me that I should, but apparently the Bowyer wants to make the bow over.  So if I'm stuck with it, because I like the wood, can I do anything about the white tips.

Keep it clean, and on the subject.  But please, tell it to me straight !

Carl
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: LeverActionman on June 25, 2010, 09:52:00 PM
Looks like the horn in the first pic might be stained you might be able to sand through finish and stain and refinish.If you are happy with the way it performs animals are not really gonna notice the tips.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Jim Picarelli on June 25, 2010, 09:52:00 PM
Personally,I think it looks great. I had 2 bows with sheephorn tips that were light like that...one rough and one smooth. But you're the one who has to decide what to do
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Kip on June 25, 2010, 10:09:00 PM
The color comes from nature not his problem in my opinion.Maybe all he had was some white ones at the time.I like them also but your call you are the customer.Kip
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Ron+dog on June 25, 2010, 10:15:00 PM
awesome bow if it shoots well id get over the SLIGHT color variation but thats just me i own old beat up bows that are exelent shooters thats whats important to me that being said its your bow if its not what you want and the bowyer said he will make it right you payed for it you should get what you want IT IS A DARN NICE LOOKING BOW THINK ABOUT IT
 :campfire:
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Gil on June 25, 2010, 10:42:00 PM
I think the difference in the pics is because of the shot angle,flash and the quality of the camera used.i would easily get over it if it feels so good to shoot, if it doesn't, thats another story.For the amount of time and hardwork the bowyer spent making this bow,i would just forget about the slight difference in tip overlay color and enjoy the bow for what it is, a pretty bow that shoots well,and besides, im sure the white sheepshorn would "age" and probably darken with time.But its totally your call in the end.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Lee Robinson . on June 25, 2010, 11:04:00 PM
I too have never liked bright colors on a bow. If you are happy with the bow, and only disapointed with the tip color, just send the bow back to the bowyer and ask him to sand those tips off and put some more tip overlays on of something more suitable to your liking. It is an easy fix. That said, I think you should be willing to pay for the shipping both ways and possibly some "refinishing time" if you did request horn tip overlays. Just an idea.

I have never ordered horn tips on a bow because I don't like white and because I fear horn being more prone to cracking than a synthetic tip overlay. I could be wrong on that though...but I know micata as well as some types of glass are simply very tough...and I do NOT like "bow tip protectors" as they can interfere with arrow flight.

It appears as if the horn tips in the first bow are really thin and almost "transparent" while being overlays on top of a darker wood overlay that is underneith the horn. It seems as if the horn on your bow may be of similar color but thicker and maybe showing less of the wood underneith??? But from pictures it is hard to tell.

I don't think the tips should justify a refund since they are easily replacable, especially since the bowyer is willing to fix it. Now, as said earlier, if the bow wasn't crafted well or didn't shoot well that would be another issue entirely...and IMO would justify a refund. That doesn't seem to be the case here though.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Robertfishes on June 25, 2010, 11:15:00 PM
they look very nice to me, enjoy your bow.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Robertfishes on June 26, 2010, 12:10:00 AM
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Grey Taylor on June 26, 2010, 12:42:00 AM
I'm curious about if you told the bowyer that you wanted sheep horn overlays but that they couldn't be white? Just as with wood, there is obviously going to be variation from one piece of horn to another.
If not, then you've got an exceptional bowyer if he's willing to take that one back and either make a new bow for you or re-work that one.
As for the weight, many bowyers I've seen say if the bow falls within a certain range of the desired pull, then it's good to go. Even with the amount of money spent I'd say that 1.5 to 2 pounds is pretty close to the money. Bowmaking isn't rocket science.

Guy
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: COMPOUNDLESS IN CONCRETE on June 26, 2010, 02:18:00 AM
The cool thing about wood laminations, horn overlays and snakeskin veneers is there is never two the same.  I would keep it.  But the decision is ultimately yours to make.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Bjorn on June 26, 2010, 03:24:00 AM
I sent a bow back for a refund once-cosmetically it was very different from what I had asked for, and the bowyer was very understanding.
If you are unhappy with your creation then send it back and get what will do it for you-as I read the story your bowyer is willing to 'make it right'.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: James on laptop on June 26, 2010, 04:20:00 AM
The guy built two bows to get the bow you wanted.Now because the horn does not look exactly like those in a picture you are unhappy.I say it is just you.  :nono:  

Natural materials don't always look the same.You should have used phenolic instead of the horn and the color would have been the same every time.If I could not live with it I would just grind it off and replace it myself but would not bother the bowyer about it.jmho
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Hopewell Tom on June 26, 2010, 06:44:00 AM
It's tough. IMO you have to like/love your gear. It's funny/sad/frustrating how some "little thing" can play on your mind. Bow can feel good in the hand, shoot fantastic, BUT those tips... It's strange how we almost always end up focusing on the negative(to us at least).
Send the bow back to the guy, get the tips changed to your liking, pay the extra(or some of it) and get on with liking/loving this bow.
I THINK that's what I'd do...
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 26, 2010, 07:44:00 AM
limb tips are relatively easy to change - send it back, get what you want.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Jim Wright on June 26, 2010, 08:01:00 AM
To me, the Sheep Horn in the pictures seems to closely resemble SHEEP HORN! It looks very much like the Sheep Horn tip and riser face overlays on one of my favorite bows. You state that you can tell the bow is 1 1/2 to 2 lbs. heavier than marked but that much variation in the spring scales normally used to measure draw wt. would not be surprising. You also mention the bow has "fabulous" woods and the workmanship is "superb". What's really not to like?
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: kat on June 26, 2010, 08:52:00 AM
Limb tip colors can vary quite a bit.  Perhaps you didn't have a good understanding of this up front.  Not really the bowyer's fault.  The bow otherwise looks great, the craftsmanship is great, and you like the way it shoots. I think you are being a little over critical.
That being said; if you want the limb tips changed, my feeling is that you should Pay him to have it changed to your liking.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Bowwild on June 26, 2010, 09:46:00 AM
I would also be very attracted to ship horn limb tip overlays -- my favorite beast. I would expect the horn material to be very light--that would be a more nature tone than the darker color especially once the horn material is cleaned.  Frankly, I like the lighter tone because it is obviously something different and custom.  I did ask a couple bowyers about putting such overlays on bows they are making for  me and they discouraged me from doing it -- less stable than the wood and fiberglass materials they work with.   This is a highly personal decision that only you can make. If I were you I'd cherish the feel and the woods which are most important in that order (to me). Then I'd accept that the horn tips are very natural colored and let em grow on me.  By the way, not everyone weights a bow according to AMO standards.  The bow weight should be weighed (using very accurate digital scales --$150 from Easton Technical Products)1.75 inches towards the bow's back from the pivot point of the bow's grip. Most, like me measure draw weight from the very back of the bow (opposite the face of the bow).  Most of my bows are 1-2 pounds different from what the bowyer scribed on the riser or limbs.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Apex Predator on June 26, 2010, 10:00:00 AM
That last tip photo shows one of the prettiest I have ever seen.  I would be very happy.  I think the second one looks more like sheep horn than the first.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: drewsbow on June 26, 2010, 10:23:00 AM
I would say you asked for sheep horn and got it so don't complain , and if he made two bows to get you what you want ? Come on now thats sheep is what you asked for.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: LimbLover on June 26, 2010, 05:57:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by drewsbow:
I would say you asked for sheep horn and got it so don't complain , and if he made two bows to get you what you want ? Come on now thats sheep is what you asked for.
Ditto. Horn does vary but I think that is what is the coolest about using it.

A similar situation happened to me. I requested horn on a bow and the bowyer said he had ordered a hunk of beautiful caramel covered horn that would look great on the bow. When he began the shaping process it turned black - which matched my limbs perfectly but wasn't the beautiful caramel that we expected. I wonder if something similar happened to yours.

He offered to take it back but it wasn't his fault in my opinion.

FYI, I like the white, but I also know how one little thing on a bow can bother you. If its not what you want I would send it back but you should cover the shipping IMO as he will most likely be donating his time.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: wingnut on June 26, 2010, 06:09:00 PM
Sheephorn runs from black to white and everything in between.  If you ordered sheephorn and that's what you got. . .well.

If you want it changed, pay the bowyer to change it.  

Mike
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: DeerSpotter on June 26, 2010, 10:08:00 PM
Thanks guys ,

I don't want to send the bow back because I really like the wood ,I will get over it .

But let me clarify one thing which probably wasn't too clear in the beginning ,I had three bows made by two different bowyers the one that made two bows to get the one right ,Is a very particular ,And fussy Bowyer .Very talented and I've been very satisfied with the two bows that he's made .  Those two bows will never leave my rack .

As for the sheep horn ,I got over it today .After reading all of your postings ,The woods that he used in the bow, Are really great looking And I would imagine through time The whiteness of the horns will tone down some .I also gave him an example of the wood that I wanted in the bow,And he did exactly what I wanted ,I think the big thing was I was surprised that the tips were white.I wasn't told so what did surprise me .  

And that was my first response to him "that the deer don't care what tips look like" .

And I appreciate the frankness of everyone on this site . I don't know if anybody noticed or not but all of you talk to me like it was eye to eye, And that's what's great about this site

Thanks again

Carl
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: mooseman76 on June 26, 2010, 10:21:00 PM
Well, lets see the rest of the bow  :)   The tips look great, I agree with the above posts that your tips look even better than the first pic.  Hope that you are truly satisfied with it.  Looks great to me...Mike
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: DeerSpotter on June 26, 2010, 10:38:00 PM
The limbs are made a zebra wood .
Here's some photos    (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/BowNow/IMG_whip2.jpg)

  (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/BowNow/IMG_2739.jpg)

  (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/BowNow/IMG_2734.jpg)

  (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/BowNow/IMG_2728.jpg)
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: DeerSpotter on June 26, 2010, 10:46:00 PM
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/BowNow/IMG_2744.jpg)

The flash on the camera makes it look more red that it is.

The stats are

62" 43# @ 29" But it feels more like 45#

I haven't scaled it yet .

I just recently had a bow made That is

62" 36# @ 29"

I really like that one for my practicing on my form . Now I have a problem. I'm starting to accumulate bows that I can't see letting go of I've added 3 to my rack in The last two months .

I got to slowdown. I can only shoot one at a time right !


Carl
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: drewsbow on June 26, 2010, 11:18:00 PM
Holy cow , now that I see the rest of the bow those tips just won't do. Please put that up for sale right away and let me know when you do , specs are right up my alley . Very nice bow. :0)
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Hopewell Tom on June 27, 2010, 07:57:00 AM
Beautiful. I like the specs, too. I'm looking to get into the mid 40's poundage wise as well. I thought I was a short bow fanatic, but maybe 62-64" is good.(I can hear it now, 62-64" IS short!) The decisions only get harder as one sees the beauty/quality from so many good boyers.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: mooseman76 on June 27, 2010, 08:43:00 AM
Very nice.  That cocobolo is fantastic.  That sure is a good lookin bow you got there...Mike
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: Curveman on June 27, 2010, 08:52:00 AM
I actually saw the pictures before I saw the complaint and liked the second photo/tips much better! I love the "imperfections" of natural materials. The Navajo Indians deliberately leave imperfections in their stitching to "honor the creative spirit" (or something like that).

I can empathize with your feelings when a bow didn't come in as you expected however: I ordered a bow once that came with the wrong tips, left my name off it, had either the wrong wood or a poor choice of riser woods (a light shade probably of the dark Indonesian rosewood I wanted), and didn't have a stripe I thought it was supposed to come with. I sent it back ($$) but it got stuck in Customs and it came back. The bowyer, who'd already been VERY generous, took even more money off! It had sat on my shelf for a year all told but once I felt "stuck" with it and began shooting it a lot it has become my "go-to" bow and I took a very nice bear with it last summer! I had thought of getting that "perfect woods" bow like my recurve one day, but I have found that it's how the bow shoots and the memories it makes that make the bow special.
Title: Re: Need Opinions on Limb Tips (Pics)
Post by: DeerSpotter on June 27, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
Thanks Steven ,

Sometimes We all tend to focus on what we
"Don't have " And it destroys what we do have  right in our hand . I've already sent an e-mail to the bowyer ,Telling him I don't want to change a thing on the woods or make a different bow .

And you're right ,when I draw this bow back smooth comes to mind every time .I'll probably nickname it

"Killer with white eyes "

You know the old saying

"If you can see the whites of their eyes it's too late "

So I'll just see if it can take down a deer or two.


Thanks mike ,The photos really don't do it justice .

And both of the bowyers tried to get me to go to 64 " But they both also agreed that 62 " would work very well also.

And actually I measured it yesterday strung And it comes out to 60 3/4 , It will be perfect for shooting in the double bull ,And the zebra wood limbs have always been concealable in the forest.

Sometimes it's hard to get that 10 year old kid back into you , were you accepted anything that was in your hand and would use What was available and be happy that you had it.

But I think I was like that yesterday ,Because I took a walk on the old forest were the Birch  trees were anywhere from 10 inches to 12 inches thick ,granted not all of them that way,And some of the oak trees were as thick as two my body standing face to face .It had never been selective cut .Its 40 acres ,and after Wednesday of this coming week,It will be my private hunting grounds .

The beauty and splendor of the woods have a way of making you forget,

About the little things.

Carl