I was talking to a guy recently about hunting deer, and hogs. He said the hogs are getting so bad that they were damaging the woods and causing problems for deer and turkey. He said he kills every hog he sees and then leaves most of them on the ground where they were shot. He said he would never do this with a deer, he drags every deer out of the woods to be skinned and eaten. So,the question is, if you killed a hog, killed it a long way from your truck, up hills and down hills, would you leave it lay in the woods? Is killing of hogs really going to help the deer and turkey? No B.S., what would you really do?
Our place in central texas has been over run the last few years with hogs. For 20 years we never saw one, now they are everywhere. I think we see fewer deer and turkey but no statistics to back it up. I have not seen a qual in over a year.
We shoot them on sight and leave most, especially when it is hot. We clean a few in the fall/winter, but only need a few a year to eat.
I would take the meat, I prefer the meat over many other game.
if i cant eat it i dont shoot it except for targets as they aint live simple as that. :thumbsup:
No I would not leave it lay.
'' sometimes i wake up Grumpy;
other times i let her sleep"
This really made me laugh Jeff B. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
John, I hear down your way they are bad news and very destructive. I would not shoot anything and let it lay time to open up the season (year round) and thin them out.
DD
I just think I could not shoot it and leave it.
Rather than just shoot them and leave them, why not open the area to hunters who will use the meat?
BTW, I don't eat carp, so am I a hypocrite? Is a pig more worthy than a fish?
How about donating the meat to soup kitchens and homeless shelters if you have enough for your needs?
That way the hungry are fed and the herds are thinned down at the same time.
Kill them on sight...! I'm not sure about now but the MO dept. of Conservation used to tell us to shoot them on sight and bury them.. NOT to eat the meat...
There is no season on hogs in Texas. You can shoot as many as you want all year long, and even if you do, you won't put a dent in their population. They breed like rabbits - really MORE than rabbits. A sow can get pregnant well before her 1st birthday, and the gestation period is less than 4 months. They can and often have 3 litters per year. Winters aren't harsh down here, so they are multiplying exponentially.
They are extremely destructive. They tear up pastures, crops, fences, feeders, yards, flower beds, gardens, and everything else they come in contact with. They will eat anything, including fawns and even their own young. Deer don't hang around with hogs. No other animals will.
Hogs are not native game animals. They are feral pests. Sure, they are great fun to hunt, and they're excellent table fare as well. But unrestricted hunting hasn't slowed them down a bit. If everybody in Texas only killed as many hogs as they could eat, then we'd all have them breaking into our houses probably.
I'm generally an advocate of eating what you kill and not just shooting animals and letting them lay, but hogs qualify for a definite exception to that rule in my book. Coyotes and rattlesnakes do to, but those are other stories. :)
Donating the meat is great, but you do have to either process it yourself or pay to have it processed first. If you have a hog problem on your place, you are not going to be able to keep up doing either.
Many people trap them live and sell them for meat. There's a huge market for that, and thousands of hogs are trapped every year. And yet, there are more and more and more hogs every year.
Landowners that want to have hunters on their land have found that people will pay to hunt hogs, so the days of a guy allowing you and your buddies to come out and shoot hogs are pretty much over. The landowners that don't want lots of strangers hunting on their place typically trap them or let a trapper come in and trap them.
Reality is people do it, and worse.You have to have a decision made before you let go of that string.And Yes in my youth I have shot things that I couldn't eat and that I wouldn't eat(opossum,coon,coot).That doesn't make me a bad guy,yet now im wiser one.So I think before I shoot,And I hunt for an intended target and plan accordingly. :archer:
No problem leaving any nuisance animal where it falls.
Here's a couple of fairly recent articles from my hometown newspaper that describe the feral hog situation around here. It's really hard to imagine, I'm sure, if you don't have hogs in your neck of the woods.
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2009/apr/04/going-to-the-hogs/
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2010/feb/20/wild-hog-eradication-in-their-sights-n-farmers/
Bowhunters could never reduce the population of hogs.It takes trapping,dogs,guns and any other means to keep them in check when they infest an area.I do not kill for the sake of killing I try to eat everything I kill except old stinky boar hogs.We leave them in the woods for something else to eat and always take the sows.One question to the ones who abhor this.If you had a rat infestation in your house would you eat the ones you catch or despose of them.Same thing in my opinion.Kip
I don't see a problem with letting them lay as you described. If they're unprotected by the F&G department, then I see them as varmints, like groundhogs and coyotes are here. I don't mean to say let all of them lay but if you have meat in the freezer and don't know of anybody that would be willing to pack out the meat if you gave the hog to them, then I don't see that much of a problem with it. They're not native animals and they are competing with our native wildlife for food and habitat. If killing one means you have to eat it every time, then you won't kill as many as you would if you weren't gonna eat them. They need to be controlled/managed by hunting. Here in KY they are on the totally unprotected species list. We don't want them here! So, therefore, I wouldn't hesitate to kill one here if I ever saw one. I would probably eat it, but if they were plentiful here, I would hunt them and kill them just the same as I would coyotes and other varmints and leave them, as long as it's legal.
hog will and can out produce the humans there gestion is 3months 3 weeks 3 day and on average produce 10 to 15 piglets now i no not all of them make it but more make it than die i have family in south texas and it is family law on the ranch in the winter we keep em and in the summer let them lay but shoot every one you see they will end up like the snow geese up north eating them selfs out of there own habitat and migrating ant at the rate the reproduce they realy need thined out don't get me wrong if you shoot it you should do right by it and eat it but where do you draw the line on them cause they destoy every things habitat
I live in NJ and we now have a season for feral hogs in a couple areas. These hogs started in the southern states and have made it to NJ. They are fast breeders like some have mentioned and I agree with the folks who equate them to rats or other pests.
As for me, I would keep some, but if given the chance I would kill as many as possible and leave them for the scavengers.
pile em up!
A buddy of mine and I just killed a hog way back in the woods at BankHead last week. We were hunting the creek beds so at the bottom of the hills too. Temps were 90+. So as fast as we could, we did the gutless method and grabbed the shoulders,hind quarters and backstrap and thru it in a pack. Worked out good and the other 3 in the bunch are populating the area still. But we just had to worry about having a good time in the woods. Now on the other hand, if you are "trying to control" something on your property and it is just you.. well, you do what you have to do. It would be better to come up with ways to eliminate wasting the animal. It is like Predator Control. You can Trap or shoot the animal and leave it lay or you can skin it out, tan the fur, boil the skull, use the meat, taxidermy the whole animal. But there is not much support in the fur market these days so you have to make the decision to put up the fur for later or leave it lay. I am a firm believer of Predator Control doing what you have to do, so I guess it would be okay for Hogs too. Hopefully one of these guys that is having Hog problems will invite me over when they take over the land, my freezer needs filling!
A friend of mine bought a 700 acr farm in south Al and we always let them lay after we shot them.
A friend of ours that does a lot of work for us said please bring him all we could, said he liked them better than deer meat.
I sure hated leaving those hogs out in the woods but they are doing a ton of damage to his property.
Its a fine line between managing and wasting/disrespect...sometimes. I think this is one of those times.
We don't have pigs in my woods...YET. But I know this situation/dilemma well.
Eat all you can, donate what you can. After that, you hold a greater responsibility to the environment as a whole than you do a single species. It's part of that "dominion over animals" thing. It's a privilege AND a responsibility.
It gets emotional (for me at least) and often you have to see/experience the damage firsthand in order to justify "managing" instead of "harvesting"
My 02 cents, YMMV.
In Australia is is most common to not utilize feral pigs when shot especially in the northern areas of the country.
In Australia is is most common to not utilize feral pigs when shot especially in the northern areas of the country.
Regardless of what you chose to do with an animal once taken you are still taking a life regardless of weather its feral or not, their only trying to survive and all should be shown some respect.
Ain't got any hogs here close but the dnr tells us to shoot them all. I would keep as much as possible but like many here said you have to manage your environment.
If my area was overrun with them I would not have a problem with leaving them lay if necessary.
i know they are a nusence but if your not going to eat it dont kill it two words BUFFALO HUNTERS a waste is a waste and gives hunters a bad name now more than ever we need to make sure we live to a higher standard than our wasteful anti hunting co citizenry
Have dressed and eaten, or given away all I have killed, except one. Took a while to find him, in hot weather, and the blow flies and such got to him first.
If my ways and means of making a living were in question, I would probably take a different stand.
I see a very honest, and respectful, difference in Buffalo Hunters and what we are talking about here.
Buffalo where nearly exterminated because their hides were worth money...not because they were a nuisance, correct?
hard for me to give input on the hogs since I don't live in that country. However, I do see them as varmints and in my neck of the woods we usually leave varmints. If there is that many and they are a nuisance and interfering with other wildlife than I see the method behind the madness. Where I live we shoot yellow bellied marmots, foxes and coyotes and leave them lay unless we hand the hide. I don't see the dfference with hogs
We introduced them, we can take them out.
There are the people who live in places where feral hogs have all but taken over the land and they believe, as do I even though we don't have hogs in WA, that the pigs have to go. They take food, and habitat from native game animals and that is not good. Then there are the people who don't live in areas with hog problems and they are usually either on the fence or against letting them lay. Everyone is entitled to their own views on these types of situations and I am glad that this is 3 pages long and still a civil discussion among us traditional bowhunters. I was once a member on another large archery forum that was impossible to discuss anything without insults and rediculous bashing. Tradgang members are A+ in my book.
To compare shooting and letting feral pigs lay and the buffalo killing issue are two things not even in the same category as someone already posted. Buffalo were slaughtered for their hides which were worth big $$. Wild hogs are a nuisance animal and have to be treated as such. My parents and other family members own land in North Carolina and the hogs have absolutely butchered the land and the deer and turkey on that land have all gone somewhere else. Killing hogs and leaving them lay may not be comfortable to some and it is certainly not something that most people get any enjoyment out of. Sometimes doing the right thing, doesn't always fall into our comfort zones as individuals.
We have a fair number in California, and ranchers complain as always.
I'm an eat what you kill guy and never been in the 'too many hogs' situation myself so it is hard to comment objectively.
NBK, exactly!!! Don't compare hogs to coyote, ground hogs or especially buffelo (their American's), hogs are an invasive species that early Europeans brough here for easy food. I really do want to hunt them, and I want to eat them too but I don't blame and might even commend anyone that goes to all ends of the country to hunt down and kill hogs. I just wish I could join you.
To him they are considered a pest and as long as it is legal what can you say?Many value one animal much more than others as do game departments.I consider hogs as a great animal to hunt so would not just kill them because they might have some impact on deer or other animals.From what I have seen hunting in the south hogs,deer and turkeys do quite well in places and even if they did not I would rather cull the deer instead of the hogs. :)
imo, for the very most part, feral hogs are both destructive land and farm pests, and good eating table fare.
hogs absolutely need to be killed for population control, but they sure are a fine food source, too.
so, leave 'em dead in the field, or butcher for human consumption, it don't much matter to me ... turkey vultures and coyotes gotta live, too.
no matter what, pigs are GREAT HUNTING! :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by JEFF B:
if i cant eat it i dont shoot it except for targets as they aint live simple as that. :thumbsup:
Well spoken Jeff!
I have never hunted hogs, but have eaten quite a bit from freinds who have gotten them. I love domestic pork, but I like the wild/ferrel stuff even better.
I have never experienced the property damage and over population firsthand, but I would think if it is as bad as everyone says there would be all kinds of land owners/farmers begging hunters of all kinds to come on down and hunt as many as possible. Instead all I see is high dollar hog hunt packages being offered. I would love to hunt hogs some time, but I have a hard time shelling out money to hunt what most are considering a pest/varmit as though it were a sought after elk/bear/whitetail...etc hunt.
(quick note on farmers/ranchers)
We can't "beg hunters" because SADLY we all learned long ago that most hunters are a bigger nuisance than ANY animal.
Trash,
4-wheeler tracks,
griping and complaining like they have an actual *right* to be there,
only shooting bucks (for deer, when the condition is one doe for every buck),
crossing property lines and causing grief between the neighbors.............
No, making an open invitation to hunt on your land is a huge HUGE mistake for the exact same reason some landowners charge money:
Human Nature.
:D (I promise I don't hate all humans) :D
QuoteOriginally posted by Burnsie:
I have never hunted hogs, but have eaten quite a bit from freinds who have gotten them. I love domestic pork, but I like the wild/ferrel stuff even better.
I have never experienced the property damage and over population firsthand, but I would think if it is as bad as everyone says there would be all kinds of land owners/farmers begging hunters of all kinds to come on down and hunt as many as possible. Instead all I see is high dollar hog hunt packages being offered. I would love to hunt hogs some time, but I have a hard time shelling out money to hunt what most are considering a pest/varmit as though it were a sought after elk/bear/whitetail...etc hunt.
you WILL be invited by farmers to kill as many hogs as you can on their property. mostly, they want the hogs gone fast and turn to gun hunters. this is quite common down south. CAVEAT - assuming the farmers can trust hunters, and YOU!
so the onus is on all of us to locate farms and ask for hog hunting permission. somewhat straight forward and easy, right?
then you gotta get there, which for quite a few of us is outta state, and buy a hunting license - yep, even for varmint killin' you need a license.
then you gotta know something about the lay of the land, where to hunt, etc. - and that might be a tad hard to grasp inside of a 3 to 7 day hunt.
then ya gotta stay somewhere, eat, sleep, take care of hygiene, etc. with most hog hunts that i know of, your hunt fee dollars goes for almost all of those costs.
ain't no free lunch unless you kill it, cook it, prepare it and eat it yerself. :D
I haven't said much for a long time around here, but I'll chime in on this one. My in laws lived in the City of Houston and had to kill many as they were destroying their yard, fruit trees, etc. They simply could not fence them out to the best of their abilities. To those not from around here, it is a whole 'nother country.
In my job as an aquatic scientist for the state of Texas, we are currently weighing the input of the hog population as a (potentially) significant source of bacteria to our waterways...
Rob, understood, not looking for a free ride and I also understand opening up your land to every Tom-Dick & Harry that comes by is asking for even more trouble. My point is, I'd be willing to pay a land owner some sort of reasonable fee to access his land for the privilage to hunt and have an enjoyable time. But I don't want pay for some elaborate "hunt package" only to know that after I leave he is probably going to be out there taking out dozens of them with his rifle and leaving them lay because they are such "varmits/pests" JMO
Understood Burnsie. I'm about 4hr south of Champaign (sp?). Very near the Shawnee...rumors have been running the last 5 years or so...what I'm getting at is that you may not have to wait very long for "free" hog hunting. I truly wish that wasn't the case. Deer and Turkey hit our crops hard enough as it is, heck even the beavers are getting bad. 5 acres so far this year are lost from a single family's damming.
Burnsie Most of the hog problems are with real farmers not pay to hunt operation.They are working the crops and way too busy to try to show bowhunters where to go and worry about liabilty for someone to kill a few hogs.The farm we go through to get to our lease the hogs are coming to his fields from our woods so he could not let strangers go on our lease.Before he owned the land the previous farmer did have the lease for the woods.The hogs were eating everything so he hired some hog hunters with dogs and traps in about 4-5 months they took out live and dead right at 600 hogs which gave us some piece for a few years.Usually when they get too many they get cholera and die off adding other problems.I love to eat them and fun to hunt but they just have too much of a sex life for the rest of nature.Kip
I would have a hard time killing one and leave'n it!
Most of the folks from Texas said it right! Let's see..would you kill a "Yote" if it was killing your chickens or pets? Hoggs are fun to hunt and a great sport. They love to eat Turkey eggs, young turkey's in the nest, Quail and their eggs and young and YES when they have the chance young fawns!!! I have seen them destory a 100 ac field crop in one night! As for breeding, a rabbit can't hold a candle to them! We eat some of them, but most lay...good pickin's for the buzzards! ANOTHER GOOD WAY to look at is...the wolves in the North West...????
OK - had to go back and read the question. And there seem to be a couple of issues being discussed. 1 when managing land that is good habitat for turkeys and or deer - the hogs must be harvested at a rate of about 80% just to keep the hog numbers from increasing. Even higher would not wipe em out. 2 Hogs are most commonly NOT eaten in Australia as mentioned - but note that hogs in Australia feed on carcasses (hogs, cattle, etc) and most natives find this undesireable - not only that hogs hit rotting carcasses butw the usual amount of maggots. This is a far cry from taking a hog off an oak ridge mid fall typical southern state. 3 any hog harvested should be inspected for an overload of parasites, body weight, old wounds, body confirmation before eating the hog (we eat over 90% of the hogs we recover) but not all - whenever there is any doubt feed the coyotes and vultures 4 long distance recovery - for a good woodsman this is a easy - with a few cuts you can get both back legs and oth backstraps into a day pack and bring this out with you. We make great effort to reover and eat all wild hogs - but I do think responsible ethical woodsman could come to a different conclusion. No judgements from me on that. On my own leases and leases of friends we value hogs and might take offense at carelessly wounding or not making an effort to recover a hog.
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Too bad the there isn't some kinda of infrastructure or organized program to get all that meat laying out for the buzzards and yotes to those that are hungry. Would be a good source of protien/nutrition for those less fortunate. I wouldn't mind having a good pork loin or roast as part of my diet. It is amazing how much potential food (not just wild game) is wasted in or society every day, and then food pantries are continually asking for donations.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
... turkey vultures and coyotes gotta live, too.
no matter what, pigs are GREAT HUNTING! :thumbsup:
Right on both counts! From the statistics I have heard, there is no danger os us wiping out the US hog population in our lifetime.
I would keep the meat!!! I absolutely LOVE the way a wild hog taste with some dry rub and smoked whole for about 3or 4 hours!!
Down here in Louisiana, hogs can be a plague on a deer lease. They breed like rabbits and eat anything, even killing newborn deer at times. They are certainly tough on deer, and we treat them like varmints in cattle country. I would say that if they have overrun a lease and are being hunted for control, I would not skin and eat every hog that I shot. Do people worry about leaving gophers, woodchucks, coyotes, and other varmints? Not usually. If I were going out to hunt hogs with the same mindset as hunting deer, then yes, I would always take one out with me, but not when hunting them as pests.
I just read a post on a Fl. forum about too many hogs. The land owner said they were destroying his land and wanted to know if anyone knew a better way to get rid of them beside trapping and shooting on site. He said they were shooting them in the traps and piling them up to rot. Wanted to know if there was some kind of pois ion to use on them. However he didn't want anyone on his land to help out.
Seems most of the people who wouldn't leave them lay are from an area where hogs aren't too plentiful. If hogs didn't taste good but were still a nuisance this wouldn't be an issue. You would shoot them and leave it be. I don't eat coyotes when they get after a calf, wild dogs when they start killing deer on the ranch, coons when they start making a mess of the garden, or European starlings.
There difference between the previously mention animals (except the Starling) is that they are native. I will shoot all the hogs I can. Personally, I leave the big ones and keep the small ones. There are enough out there to be picky.
Oh I was definitely raised to eat and use what you kill, but I was also raised to be a part of nature and a steward. It is my role to help right the balance, which means dead hogs.
I would gladly give anyone hog meat that wanted it. Some of it isn't safe though.
I imagine one could eat a coyote, if you wanted to bad enough. Or maybe a starling or an English sparrow or other unprotected species. Or how about a Norway/Black rat? They're probably all edible. You don't hear many complaints about leaving them lay after shooting or trapping one though do ya? I see no difference with non-native hogs either. IF you wanna eat them, then by all means do so, but don't say anything about the people who choose to leave them lay. Unless, of course, you eat all the coyotes, mice, rats, snakes and everything else you kill in addition to the feral pigs as well.
Could not leave it.
How about ole brown mud carp? Who shoots them and eats them too? Not many I bet.
Our hunting rights, in part, remain due to hunters being effective game managers.
When populations are out of control, we need to do our part even if we deem it to be a little unethical. As long as we continue to be a productive game management tool, together as hunters, we may continue to enjoy the experience of the great outdoors.
Personally, I don't care to harvest an animal then let it lay, however if it serves a larger cause and may serve to protect our future as hunters, then I will swallow my medicine and shoot.
I can`t imagine letting pork chops go to waste.
Oh... Hogs DEFINITELY drive off deer. I'm not sure about turkey. Two places that I go for hogs use to be great deer hunting. Since the hogs started doubling and tripling in number the deer are getting rare.
There is a big deal going on about asian carp too. They thrive in our waters and take up food and resources for other native species. I wouldn't let one of those back into the water if caught.
There is no justification needed for leaving one lay. If my freezer was full and I didn't know anyone who wanted it I would still shoot it for protection of habitat. If I'm deer hunting and see a hog i shoot the hog, if I'm squirrel hunting and see a hog i shoot the hog. If I was fishing and saw one I would at least give him a dirty look
These are a destructive, invasive, species. I dont think this is even a sporting or hunting issue. They should be controlled. They dont belong. They are now being seen and ocasionally shot in Pennsylvania. The Pa game commision seems genuinely concerned about their move here. Id utilize all i could as food but at the same time would never badmouth someone for leaving one lay in the name of control. I think the last sentence in the post above by Friend hits the nail absolutely square on the head.
i was raised with the understanding that if you end somethings life you use it.this excluded varmits.although wild hogs are good eating i'm sure, they breed so fast you'd never kill them all if you only took what you needed for eating.therefore i feel letting them lay is putting them in the varmit category and is necessary to preserve other wildlife.there have been numerous lakes killed off to rid them of one invasive species.this is just to put things back to where they are supposed to be.sometimes you just have to swallow your own morals for the greater good of all.
Leave those good eating porkchops where they lay.NO WAY.I would be headed to the store to buy some onions,garlic and bell pepper to go with them.LOL
We love to eat down here in cajun land.
QuoteOriginally posted by NC BowBender:
How about donating the meat to soup kitchens and homeless shelters if you have enough for your needs?
That way the hungry are fed and the herds are thinned down at the same time.
Yes! When I've only hunted hogs I was told the locals would eat what I didn't want. I do see the point here though of the hogs being considered as a varmint so I'm not quite sitting in judgment in this case.
coyotes have to eat too!
if i cant eat it i dont shoot it except for targets as they aint live simple as that.
Jeff B..You the MAN.
When I start to see this
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/Trail%20cams/IM000150.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/Trail%20cams/IM000118.jpg)
and not this
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/Trail%20cams/CDY_0010.jpg)
I know I have a problem.
I have no problem going in with a 12 guage and reducing the population. I don't consider it hunting but game management. Hogs taken this way end up in the bone dump to feed the bears, vultures, panther, bob cats and yotes.
I was going to say the same thing about soup kitchens? that might be a way for the meat to be used.
I have no problem shootin em and lettin em lay if I could not find some way for the meat. Like is said carp are not eaten (some do! yuk) BUT if a soup kitchen agreed to take care of em I would rather do that route.
I thnk they would be very hard on quail and turkey populations as they are nest raiders. Deer?????? not sure about that one although they are competition.
J
I will add we do not have em here as of yet. While I think it would be awesome to have some more yr round local big game animal - farmers and the such might disagree.
Populations have to be controlled and on a critter that breeds as they do you have to face the fact that buzzards and the like have to eat too.
"Buzzards gotta eat same as worms" couldn't help myself.
J
Soup kitchens and other such organizations may have health code requirements that could exclude accepting wild swine.
Don't know what special precautions etc such meat has, am just tossing this out there.
It may not be as simple as donating venison from a licensed processor.
90 degree day, nuisance animal control........coyotes are going to eat well.
I'd like to take a big boar with a bow, but I wouldn't have a problem hosing as many as I could with a rifle.
Yup, raised pigs as a kid on grandparents farm. Cattle too. I like cattle, hate pigs.
Kill 'em all, let Mohammed sort them out (non PC but I thought that kind of funny.....admins, delete if you want :-)
i dont believe in killing an animal for any reason and leaving it to lay. there are too many people who would take the animal to eat. in NJ, my properties require me (by owner)to shoot a certain amount of deer for management purposes which results in too many for me to eat. i make arrangements before i hunt to give the deer away or give to the needy.
Speaking for myself alone, I wouldn't have a problem killing a destructive animal, but I wouldn't waste it if edible. Plenty of hungry people around and the critters will be more than happy with the gutpile.
I think a lot depends on the situation and also what the landowner wants. Hogs are seeming to become a very win/lose situation. They are spreading very fast and far & wide, at least according to DNR acounts and the news. They are great fun to hunt, but do a huge amount of damage. Damage which is likely wau more than we can easily see. They root up everything that they can, they eat everything in front of them. We have no idea what their interaction is with small animals such as fawns, nests, etc.
If everything is OK, landowners agree, etc etc.. I am thnking that they are no different than a carp. I could shoot and leave if that is the only way.
I wonder though. . is there a way to convert them to meat for someone ? Hogs have some issues that deer do not and may not be easily allowed (by law) for "meat for the hungry".
ChuckC
Left unchecked hogs, like most any other animal, can't start to cause damage. I don't have a problem with a land owner killing off hogs to manage his property.
I have family in south Mississippi and they have started having problems with hogs getting in their fields, they do more "property damage" than "crop" damage. They shoot everyone they see, process what they need for family, give away what they can, and leave the rest to lay.
Tried letting other people hunt their property to help kill off more, but like most privileges they were soon abused so they stopped letting other hunt.
Hogs have been here in the North Georgia Mountains for years, there are pockets of areas where they are starting to damage land. You can shoot them year round on private land, and on Government land anytime there is a season open. I'd like to see that changes to year round on Government land also.
You southern boys might not want to kill off all the hogs. It might be the only "industry" you guys have left after this whole oil mess!?!?!? I personally leave groundhogs lie most of the time. I see no difference in leaving hogs lie. Well the only difference is that hogs taste better . . . so I've heard. I know that the big groundhogs do not taste good, so I always let them lie, but occasionally I will take off the hide to make leather. Just use what you can.
For the folks that say, if I kill it I have to eat it - Do ya eat mice you kill out the mousetrap? not to be nitpickin but alot say if I take a life of an animal I was taught to eat it, to anything else is wrong. Does the size of the animal matter with that taught moral? one life more valuable than another. Agan not being critical but think about it.
I did not think about the health code! LOL I enforce the fire code - guess I shouldn't discriminate! They very well might not accept wild swine at a soup kitchen.
If I lived where there was an over abundance of hogs, and my freezer had all I wanted, and if nobody else I knew wanted them, I'd have no problem shooting them and leaving them lay as long as it was legal.
I don't have a problem with leaving em laying. They are a major problem in my part of Arkansas.
HOGS are some of the best eating meat...would never just leave them on the ground. even if you dont eat them they can be donated to food banks, etc.
never waste wildlife... in many states its a crime.
:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:
That's why they are not classified in some areas as "game animals".
Not a crime then to just leave them for on the spot fertilizer.
Just because something isn't utilized by higher ups in the chain, that doesn't mean there is waste.
Nothing in nature is wasted.
People who don't live in Texas probably don't understand just how bad the feral hog problem is here. Before I moved here I would never shoot anything I didn't intend to eat. Hogs here are the exception. They're are as bad as rats in the city. we keep the small ones and as many as we need and leave the rest. It's not uncommon to see them laying on the side of a county road or drapped over a fence. BTW, y'all can't believe how quickly the buzzards and yotes get rid of a dead pig. (nut)
I would not shoot and leave any animal with that intent in mind. With that I also understand the problem they cause with regards to food supply to other animals. If the area in question is that bad I would try to organize a hunt that would take as many animals as allowed and arrange the donation of the meat to a shelter or poor people in the community.
It depends on the pig. He'd have to be one real charming pig. He'd have to be at least ten times more charming than that Arnold on Green Acres.
Couldn't help myself.
Hogs are very destructive of habitat and extremely prolific. The are considered a nuisance most places they exist and highly illegal to move around (stock) in many states.
I'm not a hog hunter. However, I hunted hogs as a guest on a ranch in Texas and it was great fun. I shot a solid black, long haired boar that weighted (according to my host) 225 pounds. He had beautiful big tusks that protruded well outside his month - more dangerous looking to me than the black bears I've killed. My host advised me against eating the hog because it was a boar, which surprised me. I didn't know this before I killed it. But I allowed him to drag the hog to a dump. It seemed like a terrific waste. I suppose the advice against eating this boar was "hogwash" (pun intended.
I'd hunt them again if I had the opportunity but I'd make arrangements to butcher and eat any I killed.
I say, Pile em Up.... eat what you want...leave the others to rest. Those piggys demolished my food plots last year :mad:
I am a little surprised with some of the answers. I will say at least they are honest answers and a man or woman can never be ill judged for telling the truth. I do wonder how we sometimes make judgements about compound hunters that we see on the hunting programs. We judge them for all the graphic shots and the fact they use terms like management deer or hog. The fact they shoot bear over baits or deer over food plots and wait in a tree for the deer to pass to at least 50-60yds. We call these things unethical or not hunting. We have a precious resource in our wildlife and while we still have the ability to go out and hunt these creatures God has placed here for us, we need to use good judgement. We never know who may just look for these kinds of statements to use against us. Killing animals for no other reason than to kill is what they will say. I think we all owe it to ourselves to cherish what we have and keep our right to hunt as we find in this day and time our freedoms are being taken slowly but surely. Just a thought.
I'll kill every one I see and not feel bad about it. I usually dress out the first one or two of the season and let the rest lay. I don't feel bad about it for a second. You wouldn't either if you live here and knew the truth.
Besides, they don't go to waste....there are too many coyotes and other hogs that eat the meat in one night. Rarely do you see much left over for the vultures.
I realize it may be different in other parts of the country, but with all the private land in TX, we're asked to kill them on site.
Game warden around here tell us on the WMA, shoot all you see and if you dont want them leave them. You are right they are the most destructive animals on the planet. They are a blast to hunt, but once you have them on your property you are not going to get rid of them. Down here, we hunt them, trap them, and hunt them with dogs year around and you only hope to keep the population from growing any larger than it was last year. They breed faster than rabbits.
I myself would take the loins and both hams and leave the rest. I hate to waste any meat but if there are that many and my freezer is bulging than I would leave some but take the choice cuts. It is a personal choice and I do not feel any answer is wrong! Shawn
SC,
The anti hunting folks don't care if you hunt varmints or game animals with the utmost of ethics.
They don't want you killing anything, and blasting feral swine and leaving them to lay offers them no springboard.
IMHO, most of the non hunting folks are in this group: If they don't see it, or have to pay for it, they are not against it.
They know to some extent how the world works, are content to let it work as it must without their being forced to take notice of any details.
Read: Don't gut shoot one and have it flounder in their backyard, squeeling, while they're trying to watch Oprah in the sunroom.
They'll have to put down the junk food and get up, draw the blinds. Might miss a Dr. Oz or Dr. Phil statement, and that would honk them off!
we have alot of ground hogs where i live, ya know what if i shoot one i eat it. i have a hard time not consuming what i harvest, i have eaten carp muskrat, beaver,and coon. if you look up some old recipes from grannys cook book you will find not much they didnt eat back then, to each his own but i would drag and eat if it were me.
No thanks.
I'm not keen on ingesting copper fragments from my Nosler 70gr BT's.
Feral hogs taste nothing like the pork you purchase in a store. I kill them ...no way I would eat those nasty critters.Most buzzards wouldn't eat a feral hog.
I don't believe in killing for the sake of killing, but the hogs are not native species and are ruining the ecosystem. If you cannot use the meat I think it is OK to kill them and leave the carcass if it does not cause a problem. In some places these animals are no more than vermin.
The guys who aren't anywhere close to a hog problem are the ones who say if you aren't going to eat it, don't kill it. If they had hogs running amuck all over their hunting grounds and plowing up their soybean fields they would change their tune Tout Suite!
Hogs are an infestation just like rats, sewer rats, garbage rats, swamp rats, and nutria. They need to be exterminated or they will ruin all the good hunting property everywhere eventually.
If you sent somebody into your house to exterminate a rat infestation, would you tell the exterminator to save them all so you could have a barbeque?? I think not.
Besides, you are only suppose to eat them in the winter because they carry parasites in their blood. In the summer the parasites are more prevelant than in the winter.
But that doesn't stop them from breeding and over populating, so the numbers still need to be controlled all year long.
Shoot them and leave them for the coyotes and possums, they gotta eat too!
I've eaten wild hog and I'd rather boil my hunting boots and eat them! We don't have wild hogs where I'm at yet, but if the numbers aren't controlled it won't be long and they will be here too. I don't want that.
We didn't have any armadillos here either until about 10 years ago and now they are everywhere. I kill those garden destroying pests every chance I get too, but I dang sure wouldn't eat one!
They carry Leprosy.......eeeewwww!
guys i was also raised to eat what i shoot, but i don't have hogs where i hunt, thought i would like it but after listening to you all, i think not. there all kinds of trad shoots across the country, why can't someone have one where there are hogs, i don't know! like a bass tournament,a pay back for the biggest, most, largest sow, largest boar, most boars, and the biggest prize most sows. and make money for charity or a needy family and food in there freezer. thats what i would call a 3D coarse. the last day let the people that are ok with killing and leaving them, go and do so. it would make a dent in the population for the one willing to give it a chance. you could have a hunt for compounds and crossbow shooters also. there are some that would say it won't make a dent in them, but every bit helps, and helps everything have a better chance to grow.
Most ferals we shoot here are left.
After 7 pages with the majority saying "let them lay", "they are an infestation", "coyotes need to eat too"....etc etc. I am even more convinced that I will not be paying good money for a hog hunt.
Many have used the analogy of killing and not eating rats as the same thing as letting hogs lay. I don't see many places offering high dollar rat hunts though.
Tough question and probably no universal 'right' answer, especially to the ethical side of the question. The physical aspect of it seems an easier path.
We don't have hogs here so I can't even begin to imagine what herds of pigs chewing on everything in sight is really like. But I CAN imagine the mess of leaving bunches of dead pigs to rot on the ground, in high heat, near waterways, in areas used by people. Aside from the 'carnage/aesthetic' factor that's a very excellent way to spread/invite disease or surface/groundwater contamination far in excess of what mouse, rat or other pick-a-varmint control programs would generally cause. Aren't we talking about large numbers of animals that can go up to 400# here? That's a whole different ball game than your average rodent or coyote problem, if not in sheer numbers than at least in carcass biomass.
Leaving the landowner end of the pig management problem to the landowners and their respective state pest control programs (which begs the question of what is the state doing about it...another discussion topic I suppose) I'd agree that the best HUNTING management tool would be to require HUNTERS who kill pigs to either use the meat themselves, donate it to local or state-sponsored food banks (especially those that do the butchering themselves), remove it to ag compost sites where proper carcass disposal (burning or burying livestock) is available (maybe it's not..?), or as a last resort bury it on-site with landowner permission. Seems to me that leaving pig carcasses to rot out in the open simply adds to the nuisance problem that you were trying to address in the first place, yes?
QuoteOriginally posted by TSP:
Tough question and probably no universal 'right' answer, especially to the ethical side of the question. The physical aspect of it seems an easier path.
We don't have hogs here so I can't even begin to imagine what herds of pigs chewing on everything in sight is really like. But I CAN imagine the mess of leaving bunches of dead pigs to rot on the ground, in high heat, near waterways, in areas used by people. Aside from the 'carnage/aesthetic' factor that's a very excellent way to spread/invite disease or surface/groundwater contamination far in excess of what mouse, rat or other pick-a-varmint control programs would generally cause. Aren't we talking about large numbers of animals that can go up to 400# here? That's a whole different ball game than your average rodent or coyote problem, if not in sheer numbers than at least in carcass biomass.
Leaving the landowner end of the pig management problem to the landowners and their respective state pest control programs (which begs the question of what is the state doing about it...another discussion topic I suppose) I'd agree that the best HUNTING management tool would be to require HUNTERS who kill pigs to either use the meat themselves, donate it to local or state-sponsored food banks (especially those that do the butchering themselves), remove it to ag compost sites where proper carcass disposal (burning or burying livestock) is available (maybe it's not..?), or as a last resort bury it on-site with landowner permission. Seems to me that leaving pig carcasses to rot out in the open simply adds to the nuisance problem that you were trying to address in the first place, yes?
I can's speak for everyone, but in Texas the carcass will be gone in a day or two. Coyotes are everywhere and so are bobcats and all the other hogs that didn't get shot. They'll finish off a pile of carcasses in short order. Besides, we also have fire ants, beetles, vultures, opossums, coons, and foxes to pick up the scraps. In fact, the local rancher asked us to dispose of our carcasses in his stock tanks so the fish and turtles would have something to eat.
As I understand it from those that have land in Texas, the smaller pigs are good eating. But, they worry a little about what they can get into. Being hog farmers themselves, they know that a pig on the loose will eat just about anything and everything. If they have nothing bad to eat there is little worry, but what about if they find poisoned, plagued or rabid critters to eat. There is a possibility that some contagions and toxins can be transmitted to the the handlers and even the eaters of the wild pork. It is all about the environment that they live in, from what I understand.
From what I've read feral hogs are a perplexing issue, but what is clear, love 'em or hate 'em, they are not easily managed and can quickly overwhelm an ecosystem.
I certainly don't like the idea of shoot them and leave them, but honestly in rural southern areas overrun with them there really isn't another viable solution short of letting disease do it which could threaten native wildlife and domesticated animals. Not to mention still leaves carcasses all over the place only these are diseased.
Donations are not "free". someone has to pay the processor if you can find one willing to do it. In low population density areas there isn't enough 'wealth' for that. besides I would bet many of the poor in those areas already take hogs for food.
Transporting them to more populated areas isn't economical and is frought with health issues.
So for now it seems those who have them manage the best they can and those of us who want to hunt them and don't have them pay to get access to them. Sad situation, but one that is what it is and isn't likely to change.
:(
sorry, felt the need to summarize the issue
They are a feral pest and should be shot....You decide whether to use the meat or not. If it a young sow say 150# or even 200# I will keep the meat but otherwise kill them and leave them. It is said you have to kill 70% of the population every year just to keep the numbers the same. Hunting alone will not do that you have to trap and other methods. Be relentless.
Personal Opinion for Me is This: They are like the Oriental Carp that are Destroying Our Local Rivers and Lakes, almost as Far as The Great Lakes soon!! Croak the Critter and Let it Lay. SOMETHING will eat it, even if its its Own Piglets!! :archer:
Shakes.602 you are correct as far as I'm concerned...do what you have to do.
Now I will say this I have a many a wild hog and they are not bad eating but they need to be smaller sows no boars.
They are damaging invasive species just like Asian Carp are invasives in rivers.
You're doing the native species, and the native plant life a big favor by killing hogs.
They don't belong here.
What you decide to do after your "pruning" is up to you.
The question for those who say "don't shoot what you won't eat", I ask, do you ever shoot rough fish like carp or gar? If so, I assume you eat or at least clean to give away every last one?
Here in the Chesapeake Bay tributaries we now have snakeheads breeding (thanks to people releasing them from home aquariums or flushing them)...won't be long before they start decimating local game fish. These damn things can practically live in mud and or flop across roads and fields looking for more water.
I've heard this before and you can do what you like but I think you're insane to leave a hog then drag a deer
I've had Midwestern corn fed or bean fed deer that was as good as hog but woods and scrub brush deer meat doesn't hold a candle to hog done right!!!
And a 225 lb boar eats just fine if you take care of it
Sean the best meat is shoulders- for BBQ- not as much there but it's goooood!
Why not take the meat and give it to the local food bank? There are needy people who would love to have that meat. Leaving meat lay to rot is a tragedy when there are people who are starving in the world. We have Hunters for the Hungry here. When hunters donate meat to the needy, it really opens a lot of eyes to the good that hunting is---can can be more.
Here in Texas...hogs are trouble. So I guess I fall in the "leave 'em" category. But personally, I like the "footballs" (small ones) they are very tender. Anything around 150 to 200 pounds and higher I leave. Which, there are way too many of. Just last year I dropped three that were well over 250 pounds and pushing 300 to 325. Meat on those pigs is no good. IMHO.
In Louisiana, you can hunt hogs at night most of the year. People here will usually keep and eat the small ones or sows, and won't eat a boar - they are nasty.
I do a lot of coon hunting, and the majority of those are left. If there is someone around who wants them to eat, I will take them some. But I don't eat them.
However, I go coon hunting on lots of very nice private lands, and the people are glad to see me and the dogs coming. With little to no fur market, coons are a varmint in lots of places. If no one hunts them they get bold. They get overpopulated and spread distemper. They are hard on wild bird populations etc.
Coon hunting with dogs can be a lot of work, and keeping just two dogs costs time and money, but I do get to make a lot of deer hunts because of getting to know people by helping them with their coon problem. And where I live, almost every deer lease has a coon problem. I really don't have time to go everywhere people ask me to.
Hogs are ten thousand times worse of a problem, and if you need to process every one killed, there is no way to kill enough of them.
I haven't seen anyone offering paid hog hunts, but I sure as heck wouldn't pay to hunt feral hogs.
I won't kill a game animal unless someone can use it. Now if a game animal becomes a pest and needs to be killed then I'll find a person that can use the meat. I've not had much trouble giving away fresh killed game.
Keep in mind what the original post stated.......you kill the hog a long way from your truck, in a steep ravine, tough to get it out. Would you still drag it out just to give it away?
In keeping with the original question, if I killed a hog I would drag it out. I do not shoot game animals unless I will eat them or have someone lined up to give the meat to.
They ARE NOT game animals here in Tx. No closed season. They're like big rodents.As one of the boys above said the little ones are darn good eating. The big board aren't worth touching.(nut)
I've been hunting hogs since the early 90's. I've only left one on the ground for the coyotes and he weighed in excess of 300 pounds. I mean really big. The rancher had told us to shoot every hog we saw and leave'um be, unless we wanted the meat. They were destroying his fence and creating havoc on the ranch. I smelled this big boy before I saw him. He came out at dark thirty and I was a long way and three cross fences from the truck. When the smoke cleared, he was dead and I had a heck of a time just rolling him over. I opened up the body cavity and left him for the "yotes". The next weekend I went back to the same spot and there was no sign of that bad boy. I mean not a hair. Felt bad at the time about leaving him on the ground, but after seeing the damage they do every year on Texas ranches I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. Course that is only the big boys. The rest are coming home to momma.
First let me say I have not read all the posts on here, second I would like to express my support of scientific game management versus management by polls or by emotion.
This is more of an emotional issue for most of the folks who dont face the destruction and over population of hogs in their hunting grounds and farms. The people who get to see first hand how these animals breed and adapt to hunting pressure and eventually destroy the habitat are more likely to take a practical approach to the problem.
The feral hogs we are talking about are not native species, they are either put there by man or they have escaped mans enclosures to become feral. Either way they are competing with native game species for limited resources. It is not a matter of opinion in the game management community that hogs will expand and over run the environments they are currently in, it is a matter of time. This is a "Coming to a forest near you" situation, and they aint coming to play nice!
Although they might provide a challenging hunting opportunity and be respected as a game species they have the capacity to do way too much damage to the environment to let them multiply without controls. In the case of hogs they can breed faster than "hunting" and "consumption" can control them and if we dont control them they will negatively impact everything else they encounter. Destroying the land, competing with native species to the point of driving them out or severely limiting their numbers. All of that being said I say use what ever methods work best to limit the negative impact of this invasive species, if that means shooting them and letting them lay so be it.
Mind you I would never suggest this for any species that lived in balance with its environment but drastic situations sometimes call for drastic measures and the wanton waste of animals is certianly drastic in my opinion. The potential for disasterous results if hogs are left unchecked puts this issue outside of normal protocol.
It seems that there is a bit of misunderstanding about what is and what is not wildlife or a game animal. Hogs are not game animals and are not native wildlife. The same rules of engagment do not apply.
I would never waste a deer if I could help it. I make every effort available to me to recover them.
I would gleefully machine gun as many feral swine as I could and feel like I did the world a favor when I was done (or out of ammo).
This is a perspective from a farm boy that grew up raising them on dirt. (As opposed to confinement hogs, which are even more despicable).
But..., I'll help you drag yours out if you really feel your ethics demand that you eat it.
I shoot everyone I can, on my property. Small pigs and sows go in the freezer or to friends who want them. The rest get the backstraps pulled and left.
For all of you that say "Just give it to the food bank". Ever pull up to a food bank with a hog carcass and ask them where they want it? If it's not wrapped and frozen, they won't take it. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not near rich enough to pay for all that processing, and I sure don't have the time or willingness to do it myself.
Tried that "here's your hog" thing with friends/aquaintances that said "Oh you hunt, sure would like to have some of that hog meat". Again, if it's not wrapped and frozen, they don't know what to do with it.
LD
I live and hunt where hogs have had a foothold for five hundred years....so I think I can say I have at least as much experience with them as most on here....
The advantage we have is a 10-11 month growing season... but they are as heavy here as anywhere in the country, believe me.
You cannot give wild swine to the food bank- don't even try. But what you can do is talk to your pastor- tell him what's going on- and I'm betting a dollar to a donut that he knows of private soup kitchens, families in need, etc that every time you go hunting he could have someone there to drag it out and take care of it-pronto.
The hunter who can provide protein to those in need is a Prince indeed! I know- the urban deer group I started has supplied over 1500 deer to the food bank systems and believe me- we got some serious thank you letters.
Don't dare let that hog meat go to waste without making a grand effort to get it used by someone- especially in our current economic climate.
Emotional? I'd say its a 'social' issue, not emotional.
I don't care if they're native or feral- or domestic- actually I'd rather eat feral than domestic any day with our current commercial meat industry practices. I'm betting most people across the country are the same.
Shoot everyone you see and leave them lying where they fell. You're still not going to reduce the numbers unless you shoot a lot out of a helicopter ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiHmYsyVniE )on a regular basis or some other very effective method(trapping and hunting won't cut it). As far as them affecting the native game, of course they do. Every place large or small has a carrying capacity (the amount of game the place can support). Every hog on a place reduces the amount of resources that the native game will have therefore reducing the amount of native game the land can support. Same with cows but the serve a purpose.
Two thoughts:
1. How long does it take for a species to become native? As Ray says, hogs have been here since the Spanish came in the 1500's so it's hard to argue persuasively that they aren't native. I'm pretty sure my family hasn't been here that long.
2. I'm with Ray. I can't in good conscience kill something edible and leave it while there are hungry people who could use it.