There have been several topics relating to the minimum bow weight for Elk. I am more interested in minimum arrow speed than draw weight. I just shot a 600 grain arrow through the chrono with 60# at 28" recurve made by a very reputable bowyer and found out that my arrow is only going about 165 feet per second. My draw is a full 28" (maybe a little more -- I have measured several times) and was a little suprised that I wasnt getting a little more arrow speed. Arrow flight is very good and plan on using Abowyer Brown Bear broadhead.
Is this a normal arrow speed for 10 Grain per pound arrow?
Is this enough for Elk?
I have another bow by the same bowyer that is 53# @ 28" and it shot the same arrow 155 FPS.
Is this enough for Elk?
It will go through twice and half way to China before it stops if ya put it in the "pocket".
No need to worry...
My bull last year was shot with a arrow that was within a few grains of 600. Arrow speed was right at 170, using a 2 blade head. Dead centered a rib going in and stuckin far side rib. Still have some elk steaks left.
That's about right for most bows. A lot ot times people say they are getting 190 - 200 fps w a 10 gpp arrow. I have not seen that kind of speed with most bows. My MOAB shoots a 575 gr arrow about 168 -170 at 57#. What you have a perfectly adequate, especially considering the " Will 42# kill an elk?" threads
Shot a bull with a #50 BW with a 610 gr. with the El Grande Grizzly right bevel. Everything went thru but the feathers. Watched him fall! You have enough unless you hit the shoulder.
I shoot 161 fps, with my specs in my signature below, and I am at 48# draw weight with a relatively short draw length and an arrow weighing 555 grains for about 11.5 gpp. I am pleased with my speed and energy and how well it performs on deer. I blew through a doe at 23 yds last fall with the same arrow from a slower bow than the one I have now. I wouldn't hesitate to use your setup on elk.
My Elk hunting bow.
Just bought a new Chrony and Chronographed my MOAB I bought in Hawaii off my good buddy, tradgang member "Lonala" (Ron). This is now been confirmed by a second Chrony.
62" 58lb@28 and (I draw 29inchs)
Super Carbon shaft with 100gr insert, 175gr tip (550gr) = 196 fps
Super Carbon shaft with 100gr insert, 250gr tip (625gr) = 187 fps
I also tested my recurves and ACS CX carbon long bow and the MOAB killed them all. the other bows are a little lighter but comparing the numbers I would have to say that my plain jane model MOAB is as fast or faster as my as my Recurve and My fancy carbon bow even if they were the same wait. Long live the MOAB.... since I first picked it up in Hawaii, it's been my go to bow ever since. Can't say enough about these fine bows.
who cares about speed as long as the setup is tuned right and the broadhead is sharp, 60lbs is way more than enough w/10gr/lb,and 53lbs is plenty especialy if you shoot that 600gr arrow through it. that broadhead would deffinitly pass through that elk no prob.
My train of thought when it comes to heavy arrows/speed is this! Drive a corvette into a brick wall goin 120mph and itll stop dead in its tracks and blow to pieces...now do the same with a dumptruck at 75mph and itll go right through!
My signature says it all...you have plenty if you shoot them accurately!
"who cares about speed" are you Kidding!
Speed is an important part of the puzzle !
Give me two bows shooting the same 600grn arrow,
one bow shooting 160 fps
and the other shooting 190fps
I assure you the faster one will penetrate deeper every time.
I've seen a 600 grn arrow shot out of a 53lb recurve not penetrate , broad side on a moose moose. I believe it most likely hit a rib and just didn't get enough penetration to get both lungs. The recurve owner ordered a heavier set of limbs for his moose and elk hunting. Now, could this bow kill a moose or elk sure, just not on that day. The fact is the same heavy arrow travelling faster will increase penetration, and lesson the chance of having your arrow stopped by heavy muscle and bone.
For Hunting :Shoot heavy, arrows, out of the heaviest bow you can shoot accurately.
:coffee: Belly up to the bar folks. This might be awhile :)
Chances are that aside from bow design, the bow thatll shoot the same arrow faster is probably a heavier bow!!! Ive always shot bows in the #50-#55 range weather they were recurve, longbow or selfbow and never had any problem killing critters with arrows in the 10gpp area! Now when i went to a heavier arrow, 650+gr, 12-13gpp, out of those same bows the penetration increased dramatically! Bring that moose to my doorstep, and ill show ya somethin'!!!
well he just wants to kill an elk...not a moose. I think he'll be fine. an elk rib is a little smaller than a big ol moose. to each his own, this is a never ending subject
I hear you. I just switched out my 550 gr arrows.
I added 250grn tips instead of my 175s and My 58lb MOAB is now pushing my now 625gr. Super Carbons 183fps .
They fly like darts and hit the target like a truck!
I'm looking forward to putting them into a moose or elk this fall
If your not satisfied with the speed, maybe playin around with brace height(shortening it), you may eek a few more fps, but not much! Id take that setup with a razor sharp 2 bladed arrow thats properly tuned reagardless of speed hunting for elk anyday!
Its enough IMO. Hows that for simple?
sure dead is dead. With an inferior setup and the exact same shot the dead might not happen. High. er performance is not needed if an arrow goes between a rib or misses bone altogether. I've lived long enough and hunted enough to see the results of people using less than is needed. When hunting big game don't see what you can get by with. Use what will actually get the job done under the majority of circumstances with a decent shot placement and that you can shoot accurately and comfortably.
Will that bow with 165 fps and 600 gr arrow kill an elk was the question and is it sufficient? That is the implied question and the answer in my OPINION is yes.
I like the sounds of that Moabs performance. Once in a while the old pig finds an acorn.
God bless you all, Steve
Your good.
The "rule of thumb" I hear around here is at least 160fps at 600 grains w/ sharp two blade (no old woodsmans). Thats plenty to kill any legal critter in this state (and we have some moose). I have heard on other threads about a guy in Co that shoots elk at 140 something fps at 600grns and still drills em. Maybe that warm climate thins their skin. :) So You're fine. However do not underestimate the thick skin and toughness of their ribs. I have seen some bad results first hand and heard of many more from set ups that were slow, three blade, or light weight.
I bet your setup is whisper quiet. If you are happy with the trajectory and are shooting well, don't sweat it. You have plenty of punch.
I'm a firm believer that yes speed kills, but mass destroys. Pick the heaviest one (both bow and arrow) that you are most comfortable with, and go hunting.
It doesn't matter what we all think, what matters is that you honestly feel that what you have chosen will be the best set up to kill the animal for which it is intended.
QuoteOriginally posted by TexasTrad:
There have been several topics relating to the minimum bow weight for Elk. I am more interested in minimum arrow speed than draw weight. I just shot a 600 grain arrow through the chrono with 60# at 28" recurve made by a very reputable bowyer and found out that my arrow is only going about 165 feet per second. My draw is a full 28" (maybe a little more -- I have measured several times) and was a little suprised that I wasnt getting a little more arrow speed. Arrow flight is very good and plan on using Abowyer Brown Bear broadhead.
Is this a normal arrow speed for 10 Grain per pound arrow?
Is this enough for Elk?
I have another bow by the same bowyer that is 53# @ 28" and it shot the same arrow 155 FPS.
Is this enough for Elk?
I think both setup will work just find on Elk, I would worry about how sharp my broadheads are.
I understand where you are coming from on the speed thing. Due to a neck injury I have to shoot lighter poundages. I still shoot heavy arrows but choose bows that are known to be quick to help make up for the lower weight. (Morrison, Zipper, and Predator recurves)
I have seen it written that speed is unimportant and then in the next paragraph written that a 60 lb bow is needed for such and such game. Huh?
I am no elk expert but I would hunt them with that setup.
QuoteOriginally posted by jhg:
Its enough IMO. Hows that for simple?
My thoughts also. :campfire:
I got a complete pass through at 25 yds on a cow elk this last season using a 618-gr arrow, Silver Flame 210-gr broadhead, 19% FOC, using a 60#@28" recurve, drawing a tad over 28". Initial arrow speed is 163 fps.
I've shot through a chronograph at 20, 30, and 40 yds and the arrow speed is fairly constant in that range. There should be plenty of penetration at those distances based on the results with last season's cow elk.
sounds almost like a bunch of wheelies chating :biglaugh:
I was shooting my 48 lbs bow this year deer hunting i know deer r not that much of a challege but shooting a 620gr arrow and 48# i was able to break a rib going in and a leg going out it was a smaller mulie but i was shooting a four blade phantom so i know that worked against me having 4 blades vs. 2. either way it performed well and im sure the 320 grain up front had everything to do with it.
I like to picture as soon as your broadhead goes in that those 320gr up front start to pull the rest of the arrow rather than being pushed by a heavy shaft.
QuoteOriginally posted by TexasTrad:
There have been several topics relating to the minimum bow weight for Elk. I am more interested in minimum arrow speed than draw weight. I just shot a 600 grain arrow through the chrono with 60# at 28" recurve made by a very reputable bowyer and found out that my arrow is only going about 165 feet per second. My draw is a full 28" (maybe a little more -- I have measured several times) and was a little suprised that I wasnt getting a little more arrow speed. Arrow flight is very good and plan on using Abowyer Brown Bear broadhead.
Is this a normal arrow speed for 10 Grain per pound arrow?
Is this enough for Elk?
I have another bow by the same bowyer that is 53# @ 28" and it shot the same arrow 155 FPS.
Is this enough for Elk?
This setup gives you a 0,439 momentum :thumbsup: With a sharp BH this setup will blow straight thru any 4 legged animal walking the earth in the Western world!
Margly
165 and 600 grain, well heck yea it will do the job! Sharp broadhead and good shot placement with an arrow that flys straight.
You will be fine for elk. A well placed double lung will put em down in a hurry. I've shot them with 60# all natural bows that shot about that speed and had kills everyone with an exit wound.
BTW shooting through a chrono with fingers is not an easy thing. Most don't get the point over the shadow detector on both ends so the speeds come out crazy. Rusty had a radar gun that I like a lot better.
Mike
I don't get the speeds that some say they do but my bows shoot 10GPP arrows about 175 fps.I have only ever used this one chronograph so I often wonder if chronographs differ a lot?
The thing that really surprised me,was how close in speed several different make bows were of similar weight draws.This included custom bows,factory bows,both old and new.I got a new,50# bow the other day and predicted it would shoot a 650 gr arrow about 160 fps,based on other bows I have tested.On my first shot,it read 160 fps.
With my 50ish weight bows,a change in arrow weight of 100 grains,changes speed 10 fps.50 grains equals 5 fps.It has been pretty consistent.
I truly believe that your 60# bow with that arrow will do really well on elk.I also wouldn't be surprised if you shot it through another chronograph,that it may be going faster than that.Either way,I think you are good.
LOTS of big and bigger game than this was shot many many moons with bows INcapable of those speeds.
Worked then, works now.
I'd hunt Irish Elk with that set up (shooting properly)if there was any and a season.
*grin*
Doc Ashby did a "light bow (FAR lighter than yours) heavy arrow" actual penetration test on Cape Buffs is I recall the animal in question.....or something similar. Think the FPS was mentioned without going back to double check.
Worth a read and available on this same site.
Didnt luck into a live one but got to shoot a recently taken one (on a bet) on an Elk hunt once.
Several guys in "camp" (WHOLE nother story there). One got a 4x4 Bull. Looked like a pincushion. Five arrows. None half in.
Wheelie bow and replaceable blade pencil point heads.
I MIGHT HAVE mentioned the poor penetration and got challenged with my 52lb BW and 585 grainers with Eskimos.
End result was penetration through a entrance side rib, exiting the other side.....feathers buried, nock only visible. Knew it would be fine since had seen for years what they did on whitetail, being way more than needed.
Removed any doubts I, or anyone else had. Oh.....no clue on FPS........cause I dont care. No offense. Least of any consideration I've ever had.
Don't shoot BWidows anymore either.
My newest and most recent bows for hunting are over 50 yrs old......and I'd take one of em elk-ing in a heartbeat.
(Poor dang Elk)
Probably average lighter bows and heavier arrows now days.....just for the "halibut". Confidence kills.
God Bless
Shot a 800+lbs bull on a trot at 30yrds w/ a 65lbs @27'' bow and a 560gr 2 blade tipped arro.Went thru the rib side edge of the scapula and went thru the center of the opposite side rib .Bull went 50yrds and fell over.
Texastrad If you are shooting the Vyperkahn I sold to you?That's the bow i killed the bull above w/.
Huh?
I got my Bull with a self bow 57#@27" 680 gran arrow 20 yards complete pass thru, it shoot that arrow at about 149 fps. You got more than enough.
QuoteOriginally posted by TDHunter:
Long live the MOAB.... since I first picked it up in Hawaii, it's been my go to bow ever since. Can't say enough about these fine bows.
Yep. Thats what happens when you shoot a MOAB. I have 2, and another on order. Third one will be a takedown for elk hunting. Not decided what weight Im gonna order, but withthe chronic tendonitis in my bow are elbow, probably 55-58#.
I haven't put one thru an elk yet, but several deer and I say heck yeah, JMO
Before I owned a chrono, a bud at work brought one so I could test a test bow one rainy day. We set it up in the shop and shot thru it.
WOW, this bow was close to 200fps with a heavy arra. I had to call BS on it cause it didn't seem that fast.
Long story short, we rigged a light on it and sure nuff ,bout 30fps right off the top! :biglaugh:
Also for best results, build a shootin machine so you get exact draw length each time. I tend to overdraw to make it fast!They are easy to make,I have 40.00 in mine for the boat winch....
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/kennym/028.jpg)
Sorry, got off topic a bit!
QuoteOriginally posted by TexasTrad:
There have been several topics relating to the minimum bow weight for Elk. I am more interested in minimum arrow speed than draw weight. I just shot a 600 grain arrow through the chrono with 60# at 28" recurve made by a very reputable bowyer and found out that my arrow is only going about 165 feet per second. My draw is a full 28" (maybe a little more -- I have measured several times) and was a little suprised that I wasnt getting a little more arrow speed. Arrow flight is very good and plan on using Abowyer Brown Bear broadhead.
Is this a normal arrow speed for 10 Grain per pound arrow?
Is this enough for Elk?
I have another bow by the same bowyer that is 53# @ 28" and it shot the same arrow 155 FPS.
Is this enough for Elk?
A 600gr. arrow at "Only" 165fps???
Are you kidding me? That's some serious heat your packing in my book. Put that broadhead in the boiler room and Go get em! :thumbsup:
I realy don't care how fast my arrow is I just care how sharp my Broadhead is, and were I put the arrow,
I shoot 56# at my 31" draw and a 568 grain arrow at 185 fps.
Will your setup be less effective than mine? Not at all, 600 grains flying at 165 fps will put the hurt on any north american game animal.
I shoot #55@28" with a 680gr arrow and its not fast at all, havent shot it through a crono or anything, but id say its in the 160-170fps range! The true test for me is a penetration test of some source no matter how crude it is! I can blow my STOS tipped arrow through my tester that consists of old cedar shakes, carpet and cardboard! Thats where you can be certain you have a bonafide killer in your hands and boost confidence in your setup!
Seam's to me your :deadhorse:
I think that arrow would work fine. I shoot a 50# at my DL Sarrels Blueridge longbow and at just over 10gpp I get 170fps through the chronogrsph.
Bisch
At 600 grains, it just needs to get there.
Pardon my ignorance but what is a MOAB?
"Mother of all bows" Thunderstick MOAB
So that wheelie bow shooting a 400 grain arrow at 300fps is going to out penetrate my slowa** HH with a 620 arrow probably shooting around 160? I seriousely doubt it. If we were into speed then we would not shoot these bows.
Your set-up is more than enough. Sharpen that BH and place it in the boiler room.
BTW- For my advice services I charge 2-elk steaks. I'll send you a bill.
Here are some arrows I shot from my 60" 55@28.25" McCullough Griffin last fall:
680 gr arrow ............165 fps
635 gr arrow.............175 fps
585 gr Arrow.............185 fps
My Elk arrow is the 680gr it has 27% EFoC.
That 600gr you are using is good for elk.
Mike
I shot a very big bull elk. It turned at the shot and was hit just in front of one hind leg. the arrow went thru gut, liver, lung, rib and was stuck in the other shoulder. 680 grains at about 160 fps. I only pull 27".
You will get great penetration.