I made an 8 strand DF 97 string with 6 strands of B50 padding the loops for my VyperKahn and it was a bit on the noisy side. I got some 450+ and made another string with 6 strands of 450+ and 8 strands of B50 padding the loops and it is much quieter.
Have you TGers had the same the same experience... or what is your favorite string material for the quietest strings.
I have. My 450+ 6 strand strings are quieter, less handshock and faster. I love em.
I have found a padded loop 450+ is quieter on some of my bows then D97,but some bows are not.I find that some bows may like a different string.I changed to a padded loop 8125 on my Hill and it is quieter then D97 and 450+ on that bow.
450+ is the best string I have used.
I've been touting the 450+ strings on here for years, now suddenly people are "discovering" it.. :)
Ron, the next bow I am going make a 450+ string for is my Super Shrew. I tried a DF 97 on it and it is very noisy. I had a topic in here a few weeks ago about strings for the Shrew and was advised by numerous people the 450+ was the one to use.
I also noticed it didn't stretch much after shooting it on my VyperKahn. The brace only dropped a little bit.
I am pretty new to all this. Will 450+ work well on a recurve?
It should be fine on a recurve also.
Ron I always thought you supplied 450+ on your Shrew bows. I know they were skinny strings. I had a thread on another Trad site about 450+. I was getting bashed until you stepped in and said you had advocated them for years. It was amazing how they all shut up after that.
Jim I have heard a lot of good things about the Shrew and Griffin, I never heard of any being noisy. I used the 450+ on a bow that was very noisy and it helped me. I also use cat whiskers which seem to work the best for me on noisy bows. I was surprised how much different the bow felt with the string on after the shot as well.
Gil
QuoteRon I always thought you supplied 450+ on your Shrew bows. I know they were skinny strings.
Yes the Shrew longbows and recurves both come with 450+ strings on them, I also have them in stock for those that need them. As of late we've been adding 2 strands of B-50 to the 6 strands of 450+ for an even quieter string without sacrificing performance.
Gil, it was quiet with the string that came with it. Very quiet. I bought it used here on Trad Gang recently. I don't know what kind of string it had when I bought it. The string was getting kind of worn, so I made a padded loop DF 97 string and thats when it got noisy. At that point I bought some 450+ to try. I was pleasantly suprised how much quieter my VyperKahn was. I use cat whiskers on it. I am going to make one for the Shrew next.
I was at a club shoot a few weeks ago right after I had the new 450+ string for the Habu. I told Bjorn about it. I believe, if I remember right that he said he has made some very quiet strings with 8125. I hav'nt tried that material.
Ron,
First I wanted to say I learned a lot from you on Masters of the Bare Bow 1. Does your company make strings for longer bows then you make? I have a 70" Hill style and would like to try one or two of those strings.
I used to shoot 8125 10 strand padded loop stings. I liked the 450+ better. I think the speed was better on the 6 strand 450+ and it made the bow feel as though it had less handshock, plus being very quiet.
I don't remember my 8125 strings being loud, but I switched to 450+ for all my bows and haven't shot any other kind for a long time. At one time I did a lot shooting through a chrono and was very impressed with the added speed I got from the 6 strand 450+ string. Most of my bows are 60# and I recieved a big boost if I remember right.
I also made a padded loop endless 6 strand 450+ string and it was quiet and fast. I have found endless loop to generally be a little loud, but the 450+ wasn't.
Have fun
Gil
Hmmmmm... Ron, are you saying you add 2 strands of B-50 to the actual string - not just the loops? In other words, is this an 8 strand string with 2 of them B-50 and the rest 450+?
I have been tempted to mix string materials but have never taken the plunge.
450+ is a great material. Dan Quillian endorsed it since its birth in the early 90's.
I picked up a sample in 93 at the trade show in Louisville and have shot it on my Bob Lee and Selfbows since.
Lot of good materials on the market. Different blends, just merchandising in my oppinion.
Shawn, alot of folks mix and match. If your making your own, give it a try.
QuoteHmmmmm... Ron, are you saying you add 2 strands of B-50 to the actual string - not just the loops? In other words, is this an 8 strand string with 2 of them B-50 and the rest 450+?
Yes.
That's cool. I have been using TS1+ and will pick up some 450+ to experiment with. I like TS but find that the extreme small diameter makes it difficult to get a good nock fit with 8 strands even with thick halo serving. Thanks for the quick answer Ron.
I had the same problem with 8125 being to thin in the serving area. I cut a thin strip of masking tape and wrap the string and serve over it. I haven't had a problem so far.
Our strings are double served on the top half.
I made MANY 450+ strings for Dan Quillian that he resold or put on his bows. I did a lot of testing with it myself and found dynaflight97 out performed it. On a FEW bows 450+ is quieter, but on most there isn't much difference. I personally would never mix materials. Even when I made Dan's strings, I didn't even use dacron in the loops. I used all 450+ and padded with 450+ only after having Dan approved it. I told him I was uncomfortable using dacron in the string because over time the tougher 450+ or dynaflight97 would still be doing all the work while the dacron is just a filler. He said that he only used Dacron in the loops instead of using the same materials because it was cheaper. The cost for a couple of feet of 450+ or dynaflight97 is neglegiable...cents.
I certainly wouldn't use dacron as a filler in the entire string. No offense to Ron, I respect his knowledge, but my experience tells me the dacron would stretch and the 450+ wouldn't...and in the end the dacron will at best do nothing that using all 450+ wouldn't do, and at worst will end up "looping around" the 450+ like a rope around a pole making for an asymmetrical string. It just isn't worth saving a few cents IMO. If you want 450+, use it without mixing it. If you want dynaflight, use that without mixing it. If you want dacron, use it without mixing it. I have made far too many strings to count and tested them far too much to disagree with my findings when comparing dacron, 450+, ff, and dynaflight.
Dacron is the slowest, then 450+, then ff, and dynaflight the fastest.
All are quiet on a quiet bow...but on a noisy bow dacron will be the quietest and ff will be the noisiest. 450+ is a tiny bit quieter than dynaflight, and dynaflight is quieter than ff.
Dacron resignates too much for me. I personally would never keep a bow that couldn't use a high performance string, even if that meant modifying the tips myself.
My favorite string to date of the materials listed above is a 3 ply 12 strand dynaflight97 string made from 3 bundles with 4 strands each...with the loops padded with an extra strand of dynaflight97 bringing the strand count in the loops up to a total of 15 strands...just requiring the addition of 1 strand per group. On a recurve, I might would pad with 2 additional strands per group, bringing the loop count up to a total of 18 strands of dynaflight. Serving only requires a few strands to be added between the bundles...mixed into the individual bundle groups by unstringing the bow and untwisting the bundles in the area of the string that the serving will lay over and then twisting this area back up so the "inlays" are smooth and the serving does not create a "bump" as adding it to the final string would do.
12 strands of dynaflight is quiet on all bows I would personally keep. If it won't shoot that quietly, I personally wouldn't keep the bow unless it was only for target shooting...but that's me. It is also the fastest I have tested while maintaining stability. I personally believe that when one goes to the extremely light weight strings, one starts to get less consistency in performance. Consistency = accuracy.
The strings we use on the Shrew bows are the best for OUR bows...if they weren't we wouldn't be using them. Over the many years that the Shrews have been made we've tried/tested every other kind of string material available. D97 is a close 2nd but for my money the 450+ can't be beat on our bows.
There are many bows being made today and I don't care how similar some of them are in appearance they are NOT the same. They do not they FEEL the same nor do they SOUND the same... even if they may have the same string on them.
Many of the bows today are using carbon and foam in the limb, our bows included. This can bump up performance in a bow but can also cause a little more noise.
We want a hunting bow to be fast and stable but it also needs to be as quiet as possible
The 2 strands of B-50 we've been using in our 450+ strings serve as a "damper" and tends to quiet the string, almost like a built in string silencer. The 450+ supports the B-50 and keeps the dacron from stretching which is what dacron wants to do. If performance is minimized by adding the 2 strands of B-50 in the strings it is not noticeable.
We've been using this "blend" in our strings for some time now with nothing but positive results.
I'm not saying that this is what everyone should be using on other bows, but it works for our bows and we will continue to use it until something better comes along.
I wouldn't use anything but the strings Ron provides for the Shrew bows I own. i've been using Ron's strings since I got my first Super Shrew in 1999 and the bow is very quiet. It's a nice benefit when the bowyer does the test work for you and all you have to do is set the final nock and brace height then enjoy shooting.
Good info. I plan to make some 452x strings, which are the same as 450+ but 1/2 the diamater. Anyone use this stuff? I plan to start with a 10 strand (= 5 strand 450+) endless loop.
Being involved with archery for over 50 years I've tried many things to make me a better archer and bowhunter. Living here in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan there weren't any archery shops so you learned to make it yourself. I've been making strings for almost 45 years and for Ron LaClair the last 3 years. When we came up with mixing B-50 and 450+ I said, "why not". Randy Gustafson of Northwoods Wilderness Outfitters and I experimented with different string materials (He's got about 10 Shrews) and found 6 strands, 450+ 2 strands, B-50 padded to 14 strands worked the best for every Shrew we tried. People are asking does it work on recurves--YES--I've had one on my Marriah Thermal for 2 years now and looks as good as the day I put it on. Does it come unraveled NO!!
B-50 will stretch as far as the 450+ will allow it. All I know is it works on the Shrew's. Give it a try you might get your bow to shoot as good as a Shrew, well then again maybe not!!
Where would a longbow shooter get such a string? I have a 70" 63# Hill style and want to get rid of my "beaver balls".
CJC is a sponsor on this site. I have bought 6 strand 450+ flemish strings for my longbows from him and they were good quality strings.
Ron LaClair also stated he has some in stock. I don't know if they are only made to lengths that the Shrew is, but you can send him a PM too. He is also a sponsor of on this site.
Gil
Not to change the subject, but can anyone tell me the difference tween 450+ and 450X? Soemone sent me a string with 450X on it... ?
452X is basically a thinner version of 450+. 450+ is 70/30 SK75 Dyneema and Vectran, 452X is 67/33.
Chad
Very interesting info here. I to have made strings for 20+ years and I'm always open to learn something new. I'm using TS1+ right now, I find it creeps alot then settles in. Thanks again for all this info.......
Mark
452x is the newer version of 450, but it's 1/2 the diameter. It's also less fuzzy. I like the idea of having more strands for a skinny string. Anyone ever try this?
Thanks, Someone made me a 452X with like 12 vs. 8 in other stuff... and it is still pretty skinny. Just breaking it in... :)
I have made a new 450+ string for my Super Shrew to replace the noisy DF 97 string with B50 padded loops I had made.
Six strands of 450+ and six strands of 450+ padding the loops. Very quiet and fast. It really zings an Easton Axis 500.
I'm really starting to like this 450+....
Jim
Does anyone else notice that 450+ tends to "bleed" the color alot. I have black and red and the black tends to get messy.
I have green and tan 450+ and have noticed a slight bleeding of color. I have noticed it more with DF 97 and B50. I think most bowstring material bleeds some. Jim
Rufus,
You can get you a rag and wipe off the excess wax, which will help prevent the bleeding. When you wipe, keep turning the rag to use a clean area to prevent the bleeding. Once you get the excess off, it should be fine.
Lee, Thanks for the info. I'll give that a try.
I could not get over how quiet Mason's new Shrew CH carbon foam bow was at Compton with NO silencers. Other carbon bows have a man made, " tink " sound to me. Not really the volume of the sound, just the high pitch metallic like man made sound that I know will turn a deer wrongside out at the shot.
I have not been a fan of 450+ in the past, had several strings come apart on my Shrews. However, after listening to Ron and how quiet Mason's bow is I am ordering me a few new strings from Ron and trying them again. I can see where the two strands of B50 would help dampen sound and also probably change the pitch of the sound to a lower octave ? By the time we add some silencers and another 100 grains of weight to Mason's arrow he is going to have a deer reaper for sure ! JMHO
I'm shooting a McCullough Griffin and it has a 6 strand 450+ w/ padded loops. I believe John uses 6 strands od Dacron in the loops.
The Griffin is extremely quite provided you use a heavy enough arrow. I've noticed that if the arrow is less than 10 GPP the bow is a little louder. Once I popped over 10 GPP+ it really got quite. I'm shooting a 12.6 GPP arrow in this 53lb bow and it is whisper quite. This is with No Sting Silenters!
Mike
Yep, arrow weight is a HUGE factor Mike ! One day in our local shop I was shooting my Shrew Scout Recurve and snuck in one of my buddies 390gr arrows with my quiver full. I was shooting arrows one after another and everyone in the shop was minding their own business, shopping and working on bows. When I let that 390gr arrow fly EVERYONE turned and looked my way ! I definitely prefer at least 10GPP or sometimes even more. Most of my hunting arrows are 550-600grains. And yes, my buddy started shooting heavier arrows after that day too ! Too make our bows as quiet as possible we have to experiment with not only strings but all the other stuff as well. I am a fan of the skinny string theory for sure. JMHO
nocams
I have noticed too that my heavier arrows are quieter. I shoot 460 grain 2016's on my Vyperkahn and Super Shrew. I recently got some 410 grain Easton Axis arrows. There is a very noticable diference in the noise. Those Axis arrows are louder for sure.
So what's the difference between 452 and Excel. I'm trying a 3 bundle 16 strand Excel with 20 strands in the loops. Like it so far. Was using 10 strand 450+. Liked it too. I really can't tell any difference. Both work fine...Van
Mike Treadway has been using B-50 mixed with fast flyte for over 10 years. It definatly makes a lower pitched thump.
I like and use 450+,some of my bows are quieter with a padded loop 450+.And some are quieter with a padded loop 8125 and some are with D97.Every bow seems to like something different.
I've tried alot of combos on my Shrews. i like the 450+ the best. harry
I like the D-97 string, the only part I don't like is the dye coming off the string, on my fingers. I switched to a Astro Flight 12 strand string last year and I love it as of now. I just orderd 450 plus, so I'm going to give it a try when it gets here. I'm just not into the super skinny 6 or 8 stand strings of any material, they may be better, but not interested as of now, who knows I might change my mind. Chad
Does someone have a count of how many strands of the 450+ with the added 2 strands of B-50 for the different bow poundage?
Good thread, I always go with the bowyer who builds the bow, and I'm sure experiments to find the optimal combination.
I know another bowyer who for his bows, does a mix of Dacron/Fast Flight. Nice strings and on "his" bow design performs well.
The great thing about these bowyers that spend the time and experiement so I don't have to go through a bunch of strings to find the right combo.
"Thanks Ron".... :thumbsup:
Just a note--some bowyers do, some don't.
I have copies of warranties that state one bowyer will void the warranty on his bows if you use a flemish string, or a dacron string (that's not a typo). Another says "flemish strings are less accurate, and can be dangerous". Yet another blamed a twisted limb on a new longbow (which rendered the bow useless) on the string he supplied with the bow (and will not replace the bow).
In my experience it's rare to run across a bow that "likes" one material over another. It can happen, but not usually. The big differences I've seen are string construction and tuning (or lack thereof), including silencer placement.
There are "band-aids" you can use on a string, just like putting 6" high-back feathers on an arrow to get better flight. It's not fixing the problem, just covering it up.
I would NEVER mix dacron and dynaflight. Dacron simply stretches way too much and the dynaflight will be doing all the work...while the dacron added weight to the string for no reason other than maybe working as a siliencer (if your lucky). In fact, even when I padd my loops I don't use dacron. Nothing wrong with it in the loops I guess, but your only talking about saving a cent using dacron in the loops over using the same materials...so I just pad with the same stuff I am making. This also prevents the tougher dynaflight from cutting through the padding. I am not saying that happens with dacron, I am just saying it can't happen when all the strands are from the same materials.