i have only shot a hill bow a handfull of times and just cant get past the grip. i like a high wrist, recurve grip.
i ordered a cheetah today and decided on the locator grip which i was advised to get since i like the recurve grips. i also asked if i could get the grip smaller in circumfrence so i can get my hands around it.
i have always seemed to get a lot of handshock due to the way i hold the bows. i just dont feel comfortable with all the weight that low in my palm...feels like the top limb is gonna come back and pop me in the head.
i was also told by another well respected shooter that many go with the dished grip and not many went for the locator.
i ws torn, but still had the locator on my mind and went with it. reckon i should have went with a dished??? i am second-guessing now.
They need to be heeled.
From the ones I have seen the locator is not very pronounced and is not too different from a slight dish. Either way if you hold it like a high grip recurve your going to get shocked! Shooting the Hill bow requires a dedication to the bow and the style - it's not for everyone, but those of us that have taken the journey seriously have ended up loving them above all others. I personally like the straight best with the Shultz style slight dish coming in a close second - didn't like the locator much at all but there are those who do. It will probably serve you well coming from a recurve just remember to get that heel down even with the locator grip and you'll be fine!
Ken
i didnt see very much noticeable difference in the gips by the pics on the site. is it really that much difference in the locator and the dished?
Even the locator grip on a Howard Hill bow is a low wrist grip - still very different than the grip on most recurves. I hope you aren't disapointed when you get it. But give it an honest try and you might find you like it.
My new-to-me HH Tembo has a sight locator grip. It's the 1st HH style bow with this style grip I've shot. It doesn't seem to be a problem.
I asked for a straight Hill style grip on my Mohawk Classic but also asked that the palm side not to be as narrow as the one other Hill Big 5 I use to own.
I can't detect much if any hand shock in this one.
It's 70" and 42@28 but shoots way faster than its weight.
I had to really work at it to not shoot over my target at 20 plus yards the 1st few shots because I had told myself that I needed to remember that it was afterall only 42#...lol
I'm learning to be in love all over again..lol
God bless,Mudd
Stone Knife is right, they do want heel pressure. I've had something over 30 Hills and made 20 Hill styles. I started with the locator but it tends to move your hand pressure up. I quickly learned to much prefer the straight grip. I now make all my bows with only the straight grip. Hills are wonderful bows... a challenge that is worth it if you meet them on their terms.
When I first started shooting trad again 5 years ago I bought a used martin Savannah and shot that for a while, it had a grip that I more use to. Then I saw an ad from Howard Hill Archery and for some reason I had to have one, I never saw one first hand let alone had the chance to shoot one. I debated on what grip to get I second and third guessed what I wanted, finally deciding on a straight grip. I ordered the bow and it came about four weeks later, I strung it up and shot it :scared: I thought my fillings were going to fall out from the hand shock. I thought to myself what the heck did I get myself into now. It was at that point I made the decision to learn how to shoot the bow properly, that began my journey with a Hill. For a while that is all I shot I have strayed away some but keep going back to to my Big Five. When you get it the bow will teach you how it wants to be held if you pay attention and learn you will love it like no other. If you try to force it to adjust to your style it will scold you like no other bow can.
I have a Jerry Hill with a dished grip, just some heel pressure like Stoneknife said and you should be fine. It might take a bit to get familiar with but give it a fair shot and you'll learn to like it.
I love mystraight grip Wesley Special. No shock at all, and very smooth and quiet.
QuoteOriginally posted by Stone Knife:
When you get it the bow will teach you how it wants to be held if you pay attention and learn you will love it like no other. If you try to force it to adjust to your style it will scold you like no other bow can.
I couldn't agree more!
i sure hate to send him another e-mail tonight, but i may go with the dished....it actually looks more like some kind of locator
how is the riser cut on these bows? i shot almost vertical and may need a touch more towards center cut.,......that possible?
If you go with the straight it can be modified to any of the other two later. Mine has just enough shelf on it to accommodate a 11/32 arrow but i like 5/16 to gt me closer to center.
I have a sweet shooting Wesley Special with a straight grip. The first time I shot it it jumped out of my hand....since then it's become my number 1. I shoot it low wrist even thought I shoot my recurves high, straight wrist ala Asbel. Same goes for a Cheetah I just picked up. Both fine, fine shooters, accurate and quiet.
Craig likes to make his customers happy, and will gladly change the grip on the order for you. Don't wait too long though, he builds them fast.
gonna call him tomorrow at lunch...bout 9 there.
i dont want to bother him too much bout it.
may see if he can cut the riser out a touch more since i shoot more vertical than canted..i think they have a narrow shelf from what i remember
Some guys love longbows others don't. It sounds like you may not like a longbow. It also sounds like you are trying to turn a longbow into a recurve. You said you only shot a Hill a number of times and can't get past the grip, but you ordered a new one. Why not just stick with the recurve. There is nothing wrong with that.
"i have only shot a hill bow a handfull of times and just cant get past the grip. i like a high wrist, recurve grip.
i ordered a cheetah today and decided on the locator grip which i was advised to get since i like the recurve grips. i also asked if i could get the grip smaller in circumfrence so i can get my hands around it."
Good luck
Gil
I agree with Gil. None of the grips on a Hill come remotely close to being high wrist, not even medium wrist. If you shoot it high wrist, it won't make any difference which grip you get because you'll only be using the top one inch of it. It is possible to shoot a Hill high wrist, of course, but it's not designed to be shot that way. Good luck in whatever you decide.
Well, as you can see from the replies, you will be required to make a commitment to learning to shoot your Hill. The upside is that from day 1, I was totally in love. Absolutely the most fun bow I have ever shot and I'm having a ball learning to shoot it. I have a dished grip Cheetah, love it. I'm so accurate with this bow that I get ooohs & aahs from my wife when we shoot! I had to get her a Hill Bobcat, she loves it. We both also have recurves and hybrid longbows.
We have great fun shooting all kinds of bows...
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=089322
I think TJ is ordering the bow because he smoked at the Howard Hill shoot in Alabama and actually won it. He ain`t a beginner.RC
That's right....Congrats on the win TJ. That was some fine shooting under pressure!
Hill bows just can't be shot high wrist like a recurve--if you do that you will get hand shock. They are designed to be shot heel of the hand down--low wrist. You can't make a recurve out of one. That's why there are so many hybrids--the idea of a longbow with the traits and grip of a recurve.
The whole Hill riser is so much narrower than on recurves or hybrids that you don't want to get too close to center or you might remove too much wood for safety. Fortunately, The Hill design seems to favor a narrow shelf. I have ordered a couple of my Hills with no shelf at all and once arrows are matched, they shoot off the hand just as well as any other bow. I make about 1/3 of my bows ambidextrous, i.e. with no shelf. Lefties often find that they can shoot a buddie's Hill fine off the hand with a softer spined arrow.
i sent an e_mail to mr. craig and gonna hopefully change to the dished grip. i think i can adjust to it...i will find a way to shoot with it for sure. i have always wanted one and now is my chance, but never felt like i could grip it like it should be..again, now is my chance for that.
Dick I admire how you lead by example! That's one of the main reason that when you speak I have the same faith as stock buyers have in EF Hutton.
I mean I believe that you've done or tried it and while my experience might end up being different than yours I trust your findings to be very helpful to me in my journey.
Now if I can just figure out how to explain how I want the part of my handle area that fits into the wed of my hand just a scosh/skosh(whatever)
wider than I've experienced on standard straight gripped Hills...lol
God bless,Mudd
well i changed the grip to dished and didnt mention the riser..sont want to aggrevate a busy man too much. i am sure it is a great bow and i will give it all i got when i get it!
cant wait either...got 2 on the way now!!! time isnt moving fast enuff....
nother qiestion...these bows ff compatible?? waht string comes on them? i have read/heard of improvements by changing the strings.
Lay off the coffee your spelling is getten worst than mine...LOL Ask them what they recommend for strings when you get close to getting them.
TJ, if you don't like it, there will be a line of folks willing to take it off your hands. What length/weight did you order?
Congrats on the good showing at Tannehill! You make us GA boys proud.
Fountain, yes, you can use FF strings on them, although Craig has a hunch it shortens the life of his bows, but just a hunch.
Me, I'm a cautious stick-in-the-mud, and just shoot Dacron strings on my Hill. It works and feels fine, and the arrows still hit the pigs hard.
QuoteOriginally posted by fountain:
well i changed the grip to dished and didnt mention the riser..sont want to aggrevate a busy man too much.
I don't think you can aggrevate Craig actually, I ask him hundreds of questions in email each week and he patiently answers each, even to the point of giving away trade secrets. He is all about customer service, even if you just buy bamboo and glass from him.
definately dont want to damage it in any way or even take the risk..thats what is so great about the net...if i dont know the answer.. i can always count on fellow trad gangers coming to my help!! thanks for all the info guys...still learning bout hill bows.
apex i got 66"..57, 58, 59....anything in that range @ 28, 3rd lam of boo added. horn tips and ebony riser and juniper lams with dished grip...like RC's new bow pretty much.
That sounds amazing!!! the juniper is so pretty.
I have Wesley Special, I don't notice any hand shock, not sure what grip it is either.
What is low & high wrist anyway???
You're gonna' love that stick!
High wrist is when the web of your hand is leaning into a locator or recurve style grip. Low wrist is when you hand the whole meat of your hand on the grip, like on a Hill style bow. Heeling I think it is called.
The reason why holding Hills a certain way is so important is that it affects the bow alignment during the draw, which in turn affects 'hand shock'. The bow limbs, string and angle of the draw hand should all be lined up before shooting, with the eye over the arrow. Alignment starts with the hand on the grip and the better you set the grip the less chance of torquing the bow and so the less vibration at release, even with lighter arrows. Solid hand contact on the grip is an important and GOOD thing for Hills, as long as the contact allows the riser to stay controlled and in-line though the release. Gripping the bow the 'right' way changes a little from shooter to shooter because every person is physically different, but the alignment concept always applies. So, although 'handshock' is potentially greater for Hills because of their lower mass in the riser and higher mass in the limbs, it can be minimized by holding the bow the proper way.
Hills aren't for everyone but when (if) you finally find a grip angle that works for you they are about the 'most funnest' bow you can shoot. And I say that having owned (and still do own) many of the 'preferred' models both longbow and recurve (Widows, Morrisons, Pronghorns, Shrews/Griffins, 21st Century, Thunderhorn, lots more). Hills will either grow on you to the point of addiction or make you wish you stayed with that cute n' comfy little recurve that 'handshocks' something like a mouse fart on a marshmallow. Comfy yes, but also just a little boring. If you do try a Hill and decide you don't like it you can always sell it. But, you might want to keep it awhile and experiment with that grip style recommended by Hill shooters. Sometimes the 'Hey, that's fun!" lightbulb pops on later than sooner.
TJ -
You're gonna like the dished grip. Just get the heel of your bow hand down on the grip and don't try to choke the life out the handle with the rest of your hand. :saywhat:
That 66" Cheetah with the extra lam of bamboo will give it a smoother feel and probably add about 2 to 3 FPS. I've two Cheetahs and enjoy shooting them both. Although I'm leaning to favoring the 68" 60# 28" over the 66" 57# @ 28" TD. Due to the length, the 68" (to me)seems to have an easier feel than the 66". I've just twisted up a new Dacron string and replaced the FF I had on the 68" Cheetah. The jury is still out on my preference of FF vs. Dacron. Both are nice. Craig will supply a Dacron with the bow, unless you specify FF. The 66" TD has been with Craig for the last 10 days getting a new coat of paint and a fancy stitched black ostrich leather grip. Looking forward to getting it back. So are my other two Wesley Specials. They said it was lonely on the bow rack. :D
Check this out. It will give you some info on the proper grip. (Thanks to Capt. Dick)
http://www.howardhillshooters.com/hillgrip/hillgrip.html