Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Hopewell Tom on June 01, 2010, 12:05:00 PM
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Just in a thread on distance people will or won't shoot to on an animal. Lots of comments about getting close.
So, which is more impressive the long shot made or the successful close encounter ?
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Well for me, that depends on which direction the campfire smokes blowing!
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I think I am more impressed with an extremely close shot than an extremely long one. When someone tells of a three yard shot at an animal I can almost feel the adreneline of that type of encounter.
Often when I hear about an extremely long shot in the back of my mind I am wondering why the heck they took that shot in the first place?
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I think whip said it. On the practice range the long shots are fun and impresive. In the hunt I respect the close shots of a good hunter. I like Joe have heard stories and thought why would they do that in the first place.
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Why just enjoy one? Short/Long....I like em BOTH!!!
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I'm more impressed with a close shot. Long HUNTING shots are not what traditional bowhunting is about to me. Slam dunk shots or nothing is my motto. Of the last 15 or so deer I've killed, 7 yards was the furthest one.
I do enjoy shooting long distance on the practice range, however.
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I impressed myself in '08 when I passed up a shot at a magificent 8 point whitetail at 30+ yards on the ground. Hunkered down behind the tongue of a utility trailer the shot was way too iffy for this ole boy.
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I like them all, when I hear traditional archery I think of Howard Hill and others that made shots at 40 and 60 yards often. I am sure they missed often too but I also think people miss just as often from 10 - 20 yards. On TV the other day I saw a wheelie bow shooter get a bad gut shot at 25 yards; so a shot is a shot, if you can make it.
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I don't know, honestly. I tend to think that any trad harvest is pretty darn impressive. I do tend to think a stalking or stillhunting kill a little more highly than getting one from out of a blind or in a stand. Not that there's anything wrong with those.
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i have not killed a deer over 15 yds in about 6 years. i did miss one though at that range. I killed a deer at about 38yds 6 or 7 years ago. it was a good clean kill, but i realized that i want to get them as close as possible after that. i guess it is just a personal thing. I like shooting them a 3 or 4 yards just to know that I can get that close. I have absolutly no problem with someone shooting the long distances IF they are capable. If you can't shoot with confidence DO NOT SHOOT. That is my only rule.
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close for sure. I think the reason I olve hunting with trad gear is the thrill of up close and personal.
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The last year i shot a wheel bow which was 2 years ago i killed 9 deer and the longest shot was 43 yds and i spined a small 8.
The rest of my shots were 12 yds and under and that was one of the reasons i switched to trad.
I killed over 200 deer with a compound in the 24 years i was shooting a wheel bow and i have kept records of all my kills.
95% of those kills were under 15 yds and thats one of the reasons i switched to trad.
2 years ago i killed my biggest buck to date with a wheel bow and he was 8 yds from the base of my tree.
Man i hope i get a oppurtunity at a buck that big this year while shooting my widow or morrison.
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my longest shot to date was 28yds.and that was with trad bow.my logest with wheely was about 20..i just new id make a killing shot with trad gear..went 40 or 50 yds.and i had a complete pass threw
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All you have to do is look at my signature line below to see where I come down on that question.
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SHORT, hence the name.
The last hog I stalked, I got to within 5 feet of. She was asleep out in the open and I still didn't get a shot. I was so focused on her that I didn't see the other 5 standing to my right and when they left she seemed to start running before her feet were even underneath her.
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Originally posted by bornagainbowhunter:
If you can't shoot with confidence DO NOT SHOOT. That is my only rule.
This should be engraved in stone somewhere.
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The best one is the next one, hope it's close!!!
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Of the deer I've killed over the last 30 years with a longbow, only 3 were over 20 yards. Last year was one of them with a 9 pointer at 26 yards. Even with those longer ones my average is still less than 12 yards.
I like 'em close!
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Long or short, it really dosen't matter to me as long as it's an ethical shot your comfortable making.
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Making a long shot says how good of a shot you are. Making a close shot says how good of a hunter you are.
So I guess I'm more impressed by those who consitently kill animals at 15 yards or less.
Of course we should all aspire to be good at both.
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Could always get lucky I guess.
Bad shooter making a long shot or a bad hunter getting really close?
My problem with long shots is, Sometimes the shot looks perfect from 30 or 40 yards but when you walk up to the 3d target, it's clearly a wounding shot.
Since the question is what impresses me more, I say neither. What impresses me is a good shot!
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To those of you that say close...let me ask you something and you gotta answer honestly.
Are you all talking just about big game?
I think a ground hog killed at 45 yards is more fun that a ground hog at 4 yards....AND, can prove you are a better hunter by your shooting skills.
Would you be a better hunter if you could consistently provide food for your family at 30 yards as well as 15???
Like I said...ya gotta answer honesty.
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Originally posted by Terry Green:
Why just enjoy one? Short/Long....I like em BOTH!!!
:goldtooth:
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I see alot of dodging in this thread. I will come strait out and tell ya. My first traditional kill, was a whitetail at 25 yards. I knew that I would not miss(who among us actually takes a shot they think they will not make?), turns out it was a perfect quartering away shot, passed through the ribs but wasnt a complete pass through, it was a 40# recurve too.
That following season I shot at a dandy 8 point, 30 yards this time. There was a sapling blocking his front shoulder, I was so worried about hitting that sapling, that I nailed it :biglaugh:
Last winter I was about two inches from hitting a sitting rabbit at 60 yards. I had a sharp broadhead at the end of the arrow . . . so why not?
The lowest yardage I've killed a squirrel is 22 yards, for some reason(probably adrenaline) I miss the squirrels at less than 10 yards, and I get a lot of shots that close in the early part of the season, now granted they are close misses. But still . . .
Missed a turkey at 45 yards this fall . . . very close, I've seen folks on TV put in a shot a heck of a lot worse than my 45 yard one!!
Passed a 145 class buck at 40 yards this fall two days after the turkey!
There is a famous country song, and everyone on here has to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Sometimes I just feel in the zone especially when I have nailed some stumps before I get that 35 yard shot on that squirrel.
To me the most memorable are the ones that got away, I was less than ten yards away from a pope and young six point!! Probably by far the biggest 6 point I've ever seen, even missing those brows he would gross 135, and that wasnt the best part, not only was his rack that awesome chocolate color, but he probably weighed 200 pounds!!!! That was on a island on the potomac.
Anyway, all that said, I practice constantly, so I feel comforatable stretching it a bit, my set up is pretty good as far as FOC, and weight, so a winger is acceptable every now and then!
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Originally posted by Terry Green:
I think a ground hog killed at 45 yards is more fun that a ground hog at 4 yards....AND, can prove you are a better hunter by your shooting skills.
Not only fun but a heck of a impressive shot! ;)
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Terry - Yes, I guess I was considering big game. And yes, you would be a better hunter if you could provide food for your family at both 30 and 15 yards. If I saw you shoot a ground hog at 45 yards, I would be very impressed with your shooting ability, but I'd be even more impressed if you saw that same ground hog in an open field and managed to stalk up to 4 yards and shoot it. Like I said above, we should all aspire to be good at both.
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I'm impressed with a clean kill. Range is not really an issue. Long shot opportunities are rare where I hunt anyway. My longest so far has been 22 yards...shortest about 14. I tend to shoot the best from 15 to 25 yards for some reason. I've missed deer and turkeys under 10 yards :banghead: I don't know why because I practice from 5 to 25 yards. Still, I find myself most consistent even in practice between 15 and 20 yards.
If you make a long shot that you are comfortable with, not a poke and hope, then I'm okay with it. If you are close enough to hear their stomach growl when you shoot, I'm okay with that too. Both scenarios demonstrate skill. I don't see the problem. It's all good!
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My hunting partner uses shot distance to distinguish between a bowhunter and what he calls a "shootist". In his words, a bowhunter gets close. A shootist doesn't.
I've been shooting sticks for more than 50 years and have participated in hundreds of tournaments during that time. I can probably count on one hand the number of people who can shoot consistently beyond 20 yards, though most would take a shot at game beyond that range. They tend to remember the few times they've killed an animal and forget the misses and wounding.
Trad bows are short range weapons. (Not talking medeivel warfare here). I accept and embrace that fact. If I wanted to shoot critters at 30 or 40 yards or more, I'd shoot a mechanical arrow launcher. In sum, I'm impressed by the short shot because I have a pretty good idea as to how many critters have have paid the price for the few successes at long range .
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Ha Chris....some are still dodging! :biglaugh:
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The one that gets the job done!!
I don't stalk critters telling myself to get as close as possible, or to stop when I am close enough for a "grip, rip, and pray", I tell myself to get an arrow into its vitals and pack that critter to the truck for sausage and steaks in the freezer!
I have been too close on multiple bears where I was so jacked with adrenaline I can't even recall drawing (though I was one arrow down in my quiver), and I have made shots I possibly should have passed on.
I go hunting with the intent to kill my chosen animal, it is not the only thing I love about it (in fact some of my favorite hunting memories are ones where I didn't kill anything but time), but it ain't hunting if I am not trying to put a broadhead into an animal.
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If it was dangerous game from the ground, then I would be most definately impressed with a close shot.
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Boy do I have a lot of catching up to do to even have an opinion...I'm just hopeful to get a shot I feel comfortable with at any range...
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Short shots and heavy arrows is what I enjoy the most.
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Whatever is presented to me? sorry but take it as it comes as long as it is within my scope. I want them as close as I can get em and to me that is the best story to be heard.
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Hunting elk on the ground is different than hunting whitetail so my views are likely different. I like to get close but I would not pass up a good shot on an elk at 25 yards because I thought I might be able to get him at 15 yards. I will take the first comfortable shot I can get. I also use a rangefinder every chance I can. It is always good to feed the subconscious with accurate information.
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"To those of you that say close...let me ask you something and you gotta answer honestly.
Are you all talking just about big game?"
Good point, and yes I am. And for those who question ethics changing from small game to large.....I can't explain it, so I won't try, but a wounded rabbit bothers me less than a wounded deer.
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To each his own, for sure, but anything wounded is pain and suffering inflicted by a hunter not doing what he/she was required to do - provide the prey with as quick a death as possible. I've definitely changed as I've aged and feel I want to have respect for all life, regardless its' position on lifes' "totem pole".
I feel we OWE it to all animals to kill quickly and cleanly and doing anything less should bother us greatly.
The long shot attempted is OK as long as you'd do it to ANY animal, not just one that you feel is ok to go away and die slowly and painfully while you continued on your way, more upset with YOUR performance than its' agony.
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My hunting experience is limited to deer and a couple hogs, and of course local small game.
Looking back, it is always the extreme close encounters that leave me with the weakest knees, and the uncontrolled trembling. It is also the "slam dunk" opportunities that have left me with a dull broadhead and clean arrow more often that the longer shots.
I once put an arrow two feet over the back of a mature Michigan buck from a distance of five yards from a ground blind. It brought an end to a long stand off. I came home with arthritis and grey hair that evening.
Had that deer been fifteen yards away, the outcome MAY have been the same, but it wouldn`t have turned my hair grey.
Every situation is different, today the close shot mat be more impressive, but tommorrow may change EVERYTHING.
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Originally posted by Hopewell Tom:
The long shot attempted is OK as long as you'd do it to ANY animal, not just one that you feel is ok to go away and die slowly and painfully while you continued on your way, more upset with YOUR performance than its' agony.
I disagree.....TOTALLY with ANY ANIMAL.
"not just one that you feel is ok to go away and die slowly and painfully while you continued on your way" - "bottom of the totem pole"
I sure hope you weren't implying that's what I said...I hope you didn't try and put those words in my mouth.
With my comment on a ground hog...if I hit a Ground hog with a Bhead at 45 yards its going to die .....not so with 'just hitting' a deer at 45 with a bhead. Much larger margin of error.
Lets be carefully not to put words in people's mouth here(Gets posts and threads deleted).....and think about why some animals can be shot farther than others.....IF you can shoot accurately.
Some because they are bigger....such as I'd shoot an elk farther than a whitetail as the vitals are THREE times bigger....So, it might be MORE ethical to shoot an elk at 30 than a whitetail at 20 as you have increased the distance by 1/3rd but your vitals have TRIPLED. And some because they are smaller, and will most likely die from ANY hit.
Oh, and a 'real bowhunter' as Orion's buddy puts it should also be a 'shootist'....how else can he be a good bowhunter if he cant shoot accurately? A big part of being a good bowhunter IS being able to shoot. And I've met hand fulls of folks that can shoot good....and they are the best bowhunters I know.
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I was absolutely NOT trying to put words in anybodies mouth. I was concerned about a wounded rabbit not being as big a problem as a wounded deer.
You make a good point about animal/vital size and distance. Going afield and not being a good and confident shot really should go without saying. I'm sure it happens, but we owe it to ourselves and the animals we hunt to be the best shots possible. Each situation that we encounter, as others have mentioned, can create different results of shots taken or not. There seems to be "something" about the moment that says go or no.
Taking a long shot at any animal IS OK when done full of confidence and ability. I don't think anyone wants to be saying hopefully "let's see if I can hit that from here." Some of the posts have suggested that small game WOULD be attempted, but not large. Your point, says to me, just the opposite is true. Regardless the length of the shot, missing beats wounding or running off to die unfound, any day.
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Yep, a groundhog generally only gives you a upper torso shot, where it is all vitals.
Also in some areas the ground squirrels are plague carrying vermin and any opportunity to thin them is something to be taken advantage of, though a bow isn't the best method if that is the case...
Killing quickly and humanely is our intent always, but many I know aren't up at 0300 hiking straight up for two hours to get to a spot to glass so they can pass a shot within their range to try and "be a better hunter"...
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Would you rather have $10.00 or $100.00? For over 20 years bowhuntin' with a compound I don't remember shootin' an animial over 25 yards...most were at 20 or less...so I figure I can shoot trad gear at that range! Past 5 years of trad gear and I've never shoot over 20 yards. I kill 2-3 deer a year. I love the close shot! It let me know that I'm doin' all the things right to get the deer within that range!!! I just want to get a MOOSE (that I have tag for) or an ELK within that 20 yard range!!
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Good post Tom. That's what I was saying. I certianly am not advocating 'hale Mary's'
If you can't get close you aren't a good hunter....... If you can't shoot you aren't a good hunter. It takes both and I for one certianly enjoy the shot when everything is 'a go' both long and short. And, I really don't see a reason to only enjoy one or the other if both apply under the right circumstance.
Again, I know a LOT more than just a handful of good AND great hunters.
:campfire:
:campfire:
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In the two years of bowhunting under my belt, the one and only shot I have ever taken at game was under 10 yards at a gnarly old 9 point Whitetail buck in south TX. I was sitting in a bush with a small hole cut into it to allow my arrow to pass through, freezing my butt off for three days. I could count that old buck's eyelashes I was so close!
My wheelie-bow hunting buddy makes fun of me for having a slew of trad bows that I've never killed anything with. He also considers himself a "naturally excellent shot" (with a sighted compound using a mechanical release?) which I find particularly hilarious. Numerous times I have explained "stickbow close" to him and that is why I hunt with traditional equipment.
It must be a yin and yang thing that keeps us friends........I remember being 30 years old and thinking I knew it all too. At least he's funny.
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Ok i'am going to say shots on strictly whitetails cuz thats all i hunted with my bow here in Wis. I prefer the short shots, they provide the most adrenaline rush for me, and having everything fall in place and making the shot at mere paces from my tree made me feel like the ultimate predator.Shooting a ground hog at 45yards with trad gear AWESOME. shooting anything with TRAD gear at any yardage is awesome.
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There is just something about being well within a critters comfort zone!!!
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I think the longest shot I have taken on deer was 26 yards, and killed them with no problem. In africa, I took a few longer shots with success, simply because as Terry already put it, their vitals were bigger, and they were high percentage shots for me. But to be honest? I do wish I could accurately shoot whitetails at 30 yards, but I know I really can't, so I don't even try it. If I could...I would. I wan't to be able to do it, but not bad enough to make me want to shoot a compound. Let me put it this way. I am just as confident at 20 yards as I am at 10 yards. If I were just as confident at 30 yards, as I am at 20 yards, I would take the shot. But again...being truthful with myself, I know I simply am not confident shooting whitetails at 30 yards, so I refrain from those shots. I've passed up shots at a number of big whitetails in the 30 yard range, that I know many people would probably have flung an arrow at. So I guess I just kind of convinced myself once again that getting close is part of the fun!
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I am impressed with good shot placement,not how far or close the animal was.Bowhunting is about cutting an animal in the best place to kill and make recovery fast.Do that at any distance you want to.Double lungs and heart shots impress me.Arrows hanging out of an animal and talk of single bevels and high foc allowing kills under less than best situation don't do a thing for me shot from under the feet of 100yds away. :) jmho
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I respect the ability to shoot accurately at long distance.... but being about to take game at less than 10 yards on the ground is a sign of a hunter!
Let me restate that... providing food is a sign of a hunter. Being able to get that close is a sign of a predator :D
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Coincidentally, the day before yesterday I took my closest shot ever on a big black bear from a natural ground blind...5 feet.
I don't want to hijack this thread so that's all for now.
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I think a ground hog killed at 45 yards is more fun that a ground hog at 4 yards....AND, can prove you are a better hunter by your shooting skills.
For me personally a groundhog at 45 yards would be a luck shot. However I would be very impressed with a 4 yard shot after a 41 yard stalk though.
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reddogge, I totally agree with you.
I know bowhunters who are great shots on targets but do not have good hunting or bush skills. They are not very effective on most big game.
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I agree...that would be impressive....but I don't know any good/great bowhunters that can't do both.
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I suppose that in order to answer the question I'd have to know what constitutes close or long. I know a guy who considers 20 yards a long shot. To me, it's a lay-up.
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I`ve killed quite a few hogs and I`m no Mr Womack as far as keeping notes and such but I would guess my average shot on pork is under 10 yards.I love the stalk . When I get under 40 yards on pigs My heart starts to pound and it gets better as I get closer.I run off a lot of hogs that I probably should have shot at 20.As far as deer go, I know I won`t get super close if I`m on foot so I will shoot when it feels right and thats usually 30 or less.I try to set my stands for 15 yard shots when I`m in a tree .RC
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I will say if I were Elk hunting I would not hesitate to shoot at 40 yards.It would`nt be a shoot and hope shot either.RC
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One more time. I`m kinda "in to" this topic because of a conversation I had with a fellow today. Some stickbow "hunters" I know will use their equipment as a reason why they did`nt kill something. I`ve never done that. I feel my choice in weapon is very capable of getting it done and I will never blame a miss or lack of shooting on my choice of bow.All of the true Stickbow "killers" I know have confidence in their ability and in short...they can shoot long or short.I know one fella thats around 65 years old. He is a very good friend of mine and to my knowledge he has never won a 3d shoot but he has killed 100`s of deer and pigs. A total of probably 500 no joke.He`s confident on critters and ain`t afraid to shoot. He has more confidence in shooting than stalking and he`ll shoot usually once inside 30 yards.He looses very,very few animals. Folks like that ,They live stickbows and don`t do this to be cool but do it cause they live it.I`m done now.RC
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well said RC !
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I like this thread! This has always been something of general interest to me.
When I was younger(younger than young, lol), I always thought that 50 yards was close. And 20 yards, I can spit further. SO it is interesting to me how much my "depth perception" has changed. Now 20 yards is my "staple", and 30-35 is doable, 40 is marginal, one of those everything needs to be perfect situations, and even if everything is perfect I really can't see myself loosing an arrow on the whitetails I hunt(wirey).
Alright all that said, I have a question for you guys . . . All you fellers that "enjoy the stalk" you hunt flat terrain right?
The only reason I ask is because here in Washington county, Md the terrain is flat. Stalking is a joy, and getting 40 yards closer is not a problem. In fact I would say that on average 80% of the time I get a shot on a whitetail at an average distance of 25 yards. That is out of probably 200 days a field. The only reason I didn't kill any of those deer is because we didn't need any meat . . . Dad and I are the only ones who eat deer meat, and we only take what we use. So I let a lot of does and little bucks pass. The rule was it had to be a once in a lifetime buck, and we would squeeze it in the freezer.
A hundred miles west, it is a different story. I probably only spent 50 days in those woods this year. Out of those 50 days I can count the number of shots I was presented with on two hands. It is amazing to me how different distance is there. When I am in the deep woods 40 yards doesn't seem so far anymore. I actually shoot better as well. I take a little Rinehart ball with me to camp, and I shoot just like I normally would, probably a half hour a day. The ball is only 8 inches, and I was able to put my entire quiver on it(5 arrows) at 40 yards!!!
Anyway, all rambling aside, maybe this drastic difference in everyones opinion is due to the difference in terrain? Just speaking aloud . . .
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Close and personal has got my vote. :bigsmyl:
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from a stand you ca pretty much choose the range of your shots, most of mine are 15 at the most. 20 would be the max.