Trad Gang

I read a post regarding the hunting of geese (and other waterfowl) with archery equipment.

I submitted a question to the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife.
Here is the response:


Konrad,

This doesn't sound too crazy, it's a question we get more than you would think. Yes you
can hunt waterfowl with archery equipment, no tag required. You would need a small game license and duck stamp. Here is a link to our archery regulations as they pertain to hunting big game   http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch/Vi...3133348&p=1   please review before going afield. Since the archery restrictions are put together for big game only, we go under the assumption that you can use whatever broad-heads you want when hunting for small game.

Hope this helps,

Cody
Wildlife Program

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I think perhaps a turkey ground blind would work well for geese on the ground???
K

Nice to see another Konrad with a "K". Good luck on geese.

KB

I have some hopes of trying for geese with my bow this fall. I've only goose and duck hunted once before in my entire life and it was with a shotgun. I found it hard to give full attention to why I was in the duck blind because I kept thinking about the huge deer tracks I saw walking into the place...lol

God bless,Mudd

I killed a goose with a bow the only time I drew a tag in Tennessee. Set up on the edge of a cornfield they were feeding in. Wasn't much to it really and honestly, I didn't like the meat.

Ducks are another matter. I stll won't shoot a duck on the water, bow or no bow. It just doesn't seem right to me. We made a TV show with Archie Pillips once, years ago, shooting ducks with a longbow. I'll bet I shot 100 arrows and killed two ducks! Now THAT was alot of fun although it did start to get frustrating near the end of theday 8-(

If my mind serves me well, it must be pretty tough. I was guiding Byran Ferguson goose hunting back in the 80's and he missed all three attempts.

Shoot them on the water when you can.  You don't wait for a deer to run to shoot it with your bow.  The key is to make a clean shot.  I like to use Guillotine type heads and aim for the neck behind the head.

Yeah shoot em on the water. It doesn't matter HOW you get as long as you get 'em.......the easiset way to get a turkey is to shoot him on the roost. If you can find a bear still in his den you can shoot down into the hole, you can't miss that way.

 :(

I've been thinking about this very thing for the last few years as the Geese flying over here has increased noticeably in the last few years. No water here, just farm fields. My thought was about one of those "lying down" blinds, only home made. Or perhaps like Mudds bow mount turkey blind. Shots to take place as they come in to land. Be fun to try and so close to home.
Two problems as I see it now from the above posts - Taste of meat, but may NOT be a concern if Biggie and Byron had so much trouble hitting them! Hitting them being my second concern. Actually that's probably my first concern.

Biggie, How about if you're in the bush, you really feel like eating meat, and the duck is pretty far and he's swimming...but swimming fast...Guilty! LOL

Biggie....as long as it's legal,ethical doesn't matter?...Come on, give me a break.

:)

I didn't put a smiley face after that one cause I wasn't laughing when I posted it.......

You're right. No smiley face, I see the sarcasm now.

We eat, and serve (~400), lots of goose breast every year.  Never had any complaints  :)   The rest typically goes into a stock pot, but the breasts are grilled or smoked to medium.

As for shooting ducks and geese on the water (playing devil's advocate), it's still a challenge to sneak up in bow range and it's a small target at 15+ yards.  How's that any different than shooting them while on the ground or shooting a thunder chicken out of a blind?

I have bow-killed pheasant while running instead of flying and snuck up on bedded deer... I kind of see it in the same light.

Ben Pearson's video shows him pass shooting ducks with a bow, fairly successfully, too.  I would be worried about my dog retrieving birds with the potential of a broadhead still in it.

I grew up on a farm just off the Upper Chesapeake Bay in MD.  Two bowhunting buddies and I decided to try for the geese that were using our winter wheat fields.  Came up with this plan.  We made up 30-40 decoys out of discarded mushroom boxes and head/necks we cut out of plywood...painted black and gray with spray paint.  One guy worked at a chemical plant, and "appropriated" several white jumpsuits.  Then we waited for a good snow.  Got one that dumped a good 4-5" overnight, and was still snowing pretty good in the a.m.  We set the dekes, two of us got into the white jumpsuits, sitting right in the middle of the decoys.  The third wore a dark set of coveralls.  The geese would come off the Bay  about a mile downwind; when we saw them, we started calling, while the guy in the dark coveralls stood in the decoy set flapping his arms until the flock turned toward the farm. He then got under a white blanket. It was still snowing pretty hard, with the wind whipping pretty good towards the incoming geese.  Those things set right into the decoy spread....never saw us.  The shots were actually pretty easy; when they set their wings, they were practically hovering...probably a 15-20 yard shot at an almost motionless target.  We were all shooting Bear Grizzlys with Razorheads (Hey, it was the 70's...who didn't?)  At the time, the limit was 2 geese/day; we took our limit that morning, and to this day, just about the most fun I've had with a bow in my hand.

QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:

Ducks are another matter. I stll won't shoot a duck on the water, bow or no bow. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Not trying to say anyone should or shouldn't....I'm just saying it doesn't seem right TO ME. Ya'll have at it!

Paradocs, I know what you are talking about. I belonged to a hunting club ,when I lived in MD.,that had a lease outside of Chestertown and we used basically the same method except we stayed to the edge with the wind at our backs. I really did enjoy those days and enjoyed many a goose dinner!  :archer:

This is something I have always had lots of fun with.  I started hunting waterfowl with my bow that very first year as a traditional bowhunter.  I would camo up every evening about a hour before dark when I came home from school.  And go lay in the corn feild.  No blind, no decoys, just a goose call, a half dozen arrows and a silly kid laying on his back in the feild.  The bow was by my side, and I would just lay there and wait.  Wouldnt be 20 mins later and a flock of regulars would start the process.  Their was and still is to this day a local flock of ducks that would come off the creeks and ponds and sleep in the corn field at night.  They would range from groups of 50-200 ducks at a time.  I would wear my netting mask backwards to cover my eyes and wait for them to land close to where I was laying.  This field is about 15 acres, so narrowing it down to about 2 acres, that still doesn't get me within the magical 15 yard range.  I was never hunting for guts or glory, just some meat   :archer: .  I had eaten duck once before and absolutely loved it.  So I was determined to get one.  I think the closest shot I got was about 35 yards.  I was more than capable of making a shot like that.  But it just never happened, more often than not I would be shooting in some of the weirdest positions ever, not once did I get a good solid "normal" position, not even a kneeling one.  So that probably is why I never connected.  

Time went on and I learned about this "mysterious" code of ethics towards waterfowl.  So I have not shot at waterfowl on the ground since.  But I pose a question to all that think shooting a duck on the ground is unethical-  Do you guys think that a native American would have passed up a duck because it was sitting on the ground?  If you want the meat, you want the meat.  Thats like passing up a doe because the shot was too close?  Seriously, lol!!!

Now on to the main topic, I have shot at probably over 24 different geese.  Each and every time they were not locked up, mainly because I have no decoys.  They were just flying over my head.  So that would probably be why I cannot kill one with my bow, lol.  I am almost 99% sure that if I can get them to lock up on me, and glide in I will kill one.  I shoot aerial all the time, so that is defiantly not a problem.  I think it is finally time to get some shell decoys for the field, but man are they expensive, lol

Native Americans? You mean the same guys who ran herds of buffalo off of cliffs? The same people who killed Jeremiah Johnsons wife and kid?

Nah, they wouldn't have passed up a duck that was sitting on the ground. Don't you think it's a little different when you are in survival mode?

Listen we are not in any position to question some of the wrongdoings of the Native American people, after all think about that big old ugly black spot in our american history.  How can you say something about native Americans running buffalo off cliffs when it was the white man that almost wiped them off the face of this earth?  I bet the Native Americans went down and got everything from those buffalo at the bottom of the cliffs when they were done?!

Alright now that I pissed you off . . . why does everyone say it is unethical to shoot ducks on the ground, or shoot a turkey on their roost?  100% of the time the answer is because its unethical.  Nobody knows why it is unethical it just is.  Call me crazy but I just ain't the type of person who goes with the flow, someone says something that just doesn't make sense, I will question it.

All that said, I still won't shoot ducks or geese on the ground, or shoot turkeys on their roost-cause its unethical,lol

and to answer your question yes it is different since we aren't in survival mode.  But hunting for meat is still hunting for meat weather you need it or not.

OK back when I took groups swan hunting I think we averaged about ONE (in the air) hit & kill per 75 shots taken. This was at decoying birds - not pass shooting. My groups did have both types of guys - "only in the air" - and some who were good with shooting them "after they landed". Several years we did this - highest success was 80% tags filled - lowest was 30% tags filled - and amazingly we ended with 100% recovered - none lost birds - so I quit!!! HA
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ps: Biggie - you are so misunderstood ?!?!?!?
Dude I MISS you - 2 weeks till blackberries are BOOMIN!
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Chris...hang in there, you have a tough life ahead of you. I don't think anybody here is pissed off besides you.

Cory my man!! Gotta get together!!

I think I'm with Biggie on this one.  Spent a lot of time hunting geese with a scattergun and it just doesn't feel right to shoot em on the ground.  I really don't care if someone else wants too though.

Now turkeys on a roost.  Chris check the game laws, here in texas that's a hanging offense.

Now if it's illegal, it is sure as heck is unethical.

Mike

I think a lot of the "shooting on the ground" thing has to do with when one took up hunting.  Someone who has just taken up hunting, no matter their age, probably won't be a very good wing shot.  They'll waste a lot of ammo and never cut a feather.  Out of shear desperation, they'll ground swat them.  As they get better they ar more likely to improve their shooting and, as they take more birds on the wing, they'll shoot fewer on the ground.  I was 30 years old before I hunted from a blind or over decoys-all our shooting was pass shooting.  I was brought up that you don't shoot quail on the ground, ducks on the water, does (they were illegal when I was growing up), piglets that are less than half the height of their moms, turkey off the roost, armadillo, and no shooting into a squirrels nest.  I grew up in Florida and shot only 2 armadillo (caught and released a lot more), we ate both of them.  I still prefer pass shooting waterfowl.  I still follow those guidelines, except that now I do shoot does-every chance I get.  They're not better or worse than anyone else's hunting rules, just the way I was brought up.  Just like using a flyrod, it ain't for everybody.   I'd rather catch 1 fish with a flyrod, than 10 with a spinning rig and livebait.  Garden fodder or corn for trout isn't wrong, it's just not for me.

QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Shelton:
All that said, I still won't shoot ducks or geese on the ground, or shoot turkeys on their roost-cause its unethical,lol

Let me quote myself   :p     :readit:

I'm with Biggie but not for the reasons given, ie: unethical or illegal.  I'm an old duck and goose hunter from way back but with the scattergun.  The reasoning for not shooting them on the water was it produced a tremendous amount of cripples.  A duck rides very low in the water (3/4 of him is underwater) as do any waterfowl and basically you're hoping for a few pellets in the head so we just didn't do it.  Much more effective to shoot at the exposed breast and wings of a locked up decoying duck.

My other reason is is just isn't sporting and real sportsmen I know don't do it, period.

QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Chris...hang in there, you have a tough life ahead of you. I don't think anybody here is pissed off besides you.

Wow, I can honestly say I am not pissed at all.  Some respect may have been lost, but I'm still not pissed.  

I still don't get something . . . if all the shotgun talk is removed, since we all know that it is definitely unethical to shoot at anything on water with a boom stick.  I cant think of anyone that can put in a more humane shot in the air vs on the ground???  

 I still laugh when folks wait till the bird is just about to touch the ground to shoot at it.  What is the difference?

Anyway, I'm done with this convo, apparently I have to go prepare for my tough life  

First, and foremost to Konrad, yes, the blind thing would be one way to do it! I remember seeing the boys of Double Bull Blind use this set-up in a residential area, no guns, on Canadians! I would also say, Thanks to Cody for the kind reply he gave you!

As for Ducks on the water with the bow, if you won't, then you haven't, and you don't know!

It ain't "shootin fish in a barrel", and I'll be %^$&, if I do Bowhuntin Easy!

Oh, and speaking of fish, bowishing carp during the spawn, Like shooting Buicks, in a Bucket!   :biglaugh:

I once pass shot a duck with my bow on the second try (shall we say I got "lucky"?).
I have shot both ducks and geese with scatter gun in the air (on the ground is just not done in my home state of Texas) and I still go with that philosophy.

That all being said, today I would take a walking goose with a bow.
I've tried sneaking up on groups of those guys on foot and talk about a lot of eyes!
Therein lies the rub...getting close enough.
Yep, I would say on the ground is fair game with the bow.

QuoteI still laugh when folks wait till the bird is just about to touch the ground to shoot at it. What is the difference?
 

Read my post before yours.  Higher percentage shot.  Those folded up wings can stop shot at longer ranges whereas the exposed breast and wing bones are very vulnerable.  If a duck or goose lands we flush it and then shoot.  And besides.....very unsportsmanlike.  It just isn't done in most circles I know.

reddogge I am not questioning why it is bad to shoot one on the ground with a shotgun, I did read your post, but I said get rid of all the shotgun stuff, I am only talking about with a bow!!!!

Yes, I also understand with a gun, Reddogge. Just like the fellas I know, who jump shoot them in the drainage ditches and puddles around here.

Not my kind of fun!

Have you shot at a Wood Duck, on the water, in a rural creek? Where about a dozen, or so others are swimming around.

Their, predators, Coopers Hawks, Redtail Hawks, Great Horned Owls, Coyotes, Fox, House, Ferral Cats. Welcome to my hunting Paradise!

You know how a Texas Deer "ducks" an arrow?  :help:

When i was younger I hunted ducks and geese a lot with a longbow.  It seems to me there are situations that shooting on the water is about the same as shooting a rabbit.  Is it unethical to shoot a sitting rabbit?  Now if it is one of those dock friendly ducks that has no fear of humans on the shore it is another matter, but if it some hunter savvy bluewinged teal, you just blink twice and they gone.  i shot at a passing group of mallards with a tail wind, I gave them about a forty foot lead.  Not enough, next pass more, still not enough.  On the third pass I did not shoot, they turned and came into the wind and locked their wings less than twenty yards in front of me.  They were virtually standing still when I shot, one dead mallard. I have had better luck stalking feeding geese, they usually fly right you think you can get by with ground swatting one, so those were only a few feet off the ground and not moving too fast either.  Pass shooting at geese can be fun, but pick a large empty plowed field to land your arrows in, and don't count on hitting any.  The spring season is much better for goose hunting than in the fall, from what I have seen.  There are more around and they can be decoyed a little easier.

Once, in the misspent days of my youth, I shot a mallard while it was asleep, head tucked. Broad daylight, but he must have had a rough night. I was young, inexperienced, and hungry for duck blood. It was my first mallard drake. Just had to have those curled tail feathers for my hat. Ahhh, the foibles of youth.

I don't do that sort of thing any more... too old and experienced now, and I satisfied that blood lust long ago. I think it's called maturing.

...wonder is the indians in the old days waited for'm to fly ???????  I bet there bellys said ...no !!!!

I love shooting at flying ducks and geese with my longbow. And my Indian wife, children, relatives and friends enjoy watching me try. It is amusing. LOL

My hunting has little to do with getting meat and much more about the challenge.  Hunting ducks and geese with a shotgun can be difficult and unproductive and are a formidible challenge even with multiple shots and patterns.  So when it comes to bows, I don't think it is unethical to pursue them on the ground/water with a bow.  I think even sitting, they challenge a bowhunters stalking and shooting abilities.  

I personally find it much more satisfying to try and connect with them in flight.  The precision and luck required to connect is so much fun.  It make me feel like a kid again just flinging arrows.  I am not concerned about shot placement or form and just clipping feathers and coming close provide fond memories.  I especially like that even inexperienced archers can have a lot of fun and be surprisingly good.  It's up to you if you want to hunt them on the ground or in the air, but either way I want to see pictures.    ;)

I love the varying thoughts in this thread.  

I have to say that scatter gunning a duck on the water is like shooting a fish in a barrel.  Stalking one on the water with a bow and shooting it successfully is a lot harder than many may think. The ethics of shotgunning have nothing at all to do with the ethics of archery.  I can't see how you can say, shoot a sitting rabbit, or make a noise to stop a deer and shoot it while standing still and then call shooting a goose on the ground unethical.  They are the exact same thing.  I don't shoot turkeys off their roost, but I sure do love to shoot them standing still with their heads extended just like the geese I hunt.  Again, it is the same exact thing.  Who here would shoot at a flying turkey.  If not, why not?  You would do it on a goose?

I live in a highly populated area.  Every year there are pictures of ducks and geese flying around with arrows in them on the Evening News.  This presents all archery hunters in a horrible light.  Shooting them in the air with a bow leaves plenty of them wounded and that my friends is considered unethical by everyone who sees those wounded animals on TV.  It also fuels the Anti's war chest and troop count.  I shoot them in the air and on the ground / water.  Nothing unethical or unsporting about it in my book.  Stalking them is tough.  Using the turkey guillotine broad heads and aiming right below the head pretty much ensures an immediate kill and no bird flying around with an arrow thru it.  Hunting ethics requires me to make the most humane kill I can.  I owe it to every animal I aim at to optimize the percentage of instant kills I can make.  That to me far supercedes a shotgunners ethics that bleed over in some cases to traditional archery practice.  I have a lot better chance of that on a goose on the ground.  

I love the challenge of aerial shooting.  I enjoy watching the arrow flying to meet the goose, I even enjoy watching it miss and sail off into oblivion from where I will try and retrieve it.

I shot at a flying turkey once.  It was almost a helluva shot!!!    :D

True that Molson.  I would love to see some video of a aerial Turkey kill.

Try shooting at a duck shooting the rapids while you are shooting the rapids on the other side of the stream in a canoe with your moose-weight bow nearly horizontal!

Again we need video, that would be a great video segment!

I myself have taken geese, turkey and pheasants with my longbow. most of the geese and pheasants were on the fly, but if I'm able to call in a bird, and it lands in the decoys, that's my bird.  I have even taken the tail feathers off of a flying teal.  That is the closest I have been to an arrowed duck.

Never bowhunted waterfowl but will this fall with my new canoe.I plan to call geese in close to islands and then have at em from a makeshift blind.Ill be using wood arrows in the hopes that theyll be easy to find on misses.I have seen videos of people shooting at ducks with longbows and I couldnt get the grin off my face.Now if I could just get my bud to let me bring a longbow on his duckboat in the late season Ill take some passing shots.Hes got the mentality of a subsistence hunter and has a hardtime giving critters a much better than average chance.

I am going to try and shoot some geese this year.I will shoot them on the ground or on the water however.Too many cows in the pasture to be flinging arrows in the air.They are taking over around my sisters farm so we hope to kill some of them and the cows can't take well to shotgun blast. :)

I hope they are good to eat but I have never tried one.I enjoy shooting eating animals more than just doing pest control. :)

If you use carbons over the water, THEY FLOAT.  It made retrieving them much more pleasant.  And with all the weight up front, the fletchings stick up making it that much easier to retrieve.

QuoteOriginally posted by James Wrenn:
 

I hope they are good to eat but I have never tried one.I enjoy shooting eating animals more than just doing pest control.  :)  

Treat them like you would a steak.  I have even corned it, much like you would a corned beef, and when I took it into the chef at work, he couldn't believe it was goose.  He swore it was beef.  So he proceded to make me up the best "Canadian Ruben" I have ever had.