Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: John Havard on May 04, 2010, 10:35:00 AM

Title: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 04, 2010, 10:35:00 AM
This has been in the works for quite a while now.  We've been wanting to offer a truly different product based on our proven design and this is it.  We're calling it the ACS-ACX (for All Carbon eXtreme).

It has a radically new carbon riser that is both EXTREMELY lightweight and EXTREMELY strong.  In precise flex tests this thing rivals our solid aluminum riser in terms of thousandths of an inch deflection but weighs about the same as a feather.  

Some companies offer a "carbon" riser but it's actually made of chopped-up carbon fibers bound together by a resin system.  With such a design you only get the strength of the resin along with being burdened by the heavy weight of the resin.  A poor excuse for something called a "carbon" riser.  As I've said plenty of times before, compromising on an easy and quick solution isn't in our genes.

This riser is both strong and lightweight because of the way it's constructed.  The internal skeleton of reinforced carbon is surrounded by a lightweight-but-strong foam.  All of that is shaped and then covered with a thick and strong shell of carbon.   The result is something completely unlike any 3PTD riser I've ever seen, held, shot, or owned in almost 50 years of playing with stickbows.  This design is totally new stuff and comes with three extraordinary benefits - light weight, warm feel in extremely cold weather, and unbelievable sound deadening.

This riser weighs only a few ounces.  For folks who've always loved the lightweight feel of a simple one-piece bow and therefore stayed away from a heavier 3PTD, this is definitely something to look at.  Or, for those hard-core backpack hunters who want to save weight in their equipment this feather-light riser will definitely not disappoint.   In cold weather the carbon shell feels warmer than wood when you grip it - a really nice feature for those of us who hunt in cold climates.  And finally, I cannot emphasize enough how incredibly quiet these bows are.  Our bows have always been very quiet, but the sound deadening qualities of the carbon skeleton with foam core and carbon shell must be heard to be believed.  I'd challenge you to find any high-performance bow anywhere that's as quiet as this one.

Now, to the limbs.  The ACX limbs still have wood core, but that's the only thing that's not carbon.  The limbs are still made with four layers of carbon (two on the back and two on the belly).  But the ACX takes things farther.  By using an all-carbon wedge, carbon butt cap overlays, and carbon tip overlays, the package becomes complete.  The carbon wedge is not only cool to look at, but it also lightens up the limbs (even more!) and also attenuates the harmonic vibrations that any limb set has after the shot.

The ACX riser can be used with our standard limbs ( but not with our new short 3PTD limbs), and the ACX limbs can be mounted on our current line of 14", 16", and 18" risers.  However, to recognize the full benefit of this new bow you should use them as a system.  I feel comfortable in saying that you will say something like "holy cow!" the first time you shoot an ACS-ACX.

For more info you can check out our website or call the shop.

Here are some photos:
 (http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/JCHavard/Stone1.jpg)
 (http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/JCHavard/Stone2.jpg)
 (http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/JCHavard/Stone3.jpg)
 (http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/JCHavard/Stone4.jpg)
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Emmons on May 04, 2010, 10:48:00 AM
Sweet bow!  Any plans to use foam core limbs?
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 04, 2010, 10:54:00 AM
We've tried and tested foam core in our limbs and have chosen to not use it or offer it.  Our limbs (because of the ACS design) already have very, very little core.  So any weight savings derived from the use of foam versus wood in the critical final few inches of limb length is minimal.  Plus (and maybe this is because of our limb design) the foam core limbs I've tested are quite a bit slower than the same limbs made with our wood core.  Since what we always try to offer is maximized performance and because foam core degraded performance we don't offer it.  I can assure you that we'd use it all the time if it made our bows perform better.

This is not to say that foam core might not make other bows better/faster/quieter.  But for us it didn't so that's why we don't offer it.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: JC on May 04, 2010, 11:04:00 AM
SHAZAM...Wow John, you guys went off the chart with that one! I'm honestly shocked you can do that riser for $575. Ya'll don't have any "trial" bows do you?    :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: JRY309 on May 04, 2010, 11:06:00 AM
That is pretty sweet looking,very nice!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 04, 2010, 11:22:00 AM
Hey Joe,

We'll probably have one or two for folks to shoot at both Compton as well as ETAR.

We'd be glad to make one for you!   :)
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: bmb on May 04, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
has anyone looked at the effects that uv has on carbon fiber. i know in working with it before that we would have to use a special uv clear coating. maybe it would have to sit in the sun always to have any effect? don't know but either way, AWESOME riser!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Bjorn on May 04, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
Damn! That's seductive!!  :help:    :archer2:
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: 2treks on May 04, 2010, 12:00:00 PM
THAT is COOL! Way to go John and Larry.
I will be sure to try and shoot it at Compton if you will let me.(I will beg if I have to.)
Thanks John. great job,as always
Chuck
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: JC on May 04, 2010, 12:27:00 PM
Sadly, I won't be at Compton and my play funds are in the negative. However, this riser is the first lately to make me actually consider adding something new to the stable...and that's saying something. Fantastic achievement though, continued congratulations for always pushing the envelope.

I also didn't see any pics of the new shorty 3ptd riser/limbs. Do those look different than the standard length models? Any plans to make the carbon riser/limb system in the shorty configuration?
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Steve O on May 04, 2010, 12:33:00 PM
John,

You and Larry are a treasure.  Nobody pushes the envelope like you guys. AND knowing how you test, test, test should gives guys confidence that these will last, last last.  Nice work!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: wingnut on May 04, 2010, 01:00:00 PM
Now that's just too cool!!

I know I'll sneak it out when no one is looking at Compton.  LOL

Mike
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Pat B. on May 04, 2010, 01:23:00 PM
Nice work, John..

Bet this will a top seller !
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Guss on May 04, 2010, 02:36:00 PM
Hey John, looks great!! Can we expect the carbon eXtreme riser with the recurve grip in the near future? If so... i'm gonna start saving !!
                   Thanks, Jr.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: vermonster13 on May 04, 2010, 02:42:00 PM
Neat!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Lost Creek Bows on May 04, 2010, 02:46:00 PM
Very nice, I bet its tough and very light. Nice work.  Chad
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Over&Under on May 04, 2010, 04:02:00 PM
Boy do I want one bad!!!!

Great looking bow John - Hats off to you guys!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: cacciatore on May 04, 2010, 04:37:00 PM
Holy cow!!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 04, 2010, 05:41:00 PM
I've been away from the computer for a while.  Now that I'm back I'll take a stab at answering the questions in the order they were posed.

Joe, the new short 3PTD models do indeed look different from our standard line of bows.  They are based on a 12" riser (new design) and use limbs that are shaped 3-dimensionally differently from our standard design - all intended to work together as a unit to maximize performance from a shorter package.  If we don't yet have any pics up on the website give Dan a call and he can probably send some to you.

Again Joe, regarding whether or not we'll have the short 3PTD in an ACX format.  The answer is (not to be coy) time will tell.  Getting to this point was quite expensive and very time consuming.  We chose this riser/limb combo because it is one of our most popular models.  If demand for this version of the ACX meets (and hopefully exceeds) our expectations then the next line of bows we'll consider offering in an ACX version will be the short 3PTD's.

Steve O., in your p.m. you asked essentially if we have conducted any impact tests to see how much blunt trauma the shell of the ACX riser could take.  The answer is no, we haven't.  However, the shell is pretty darned thick and not flimsy at all.  And given how strong and stiff the riser is I'd expect it to take a licking and keep on ticking.   It's worth noting that the skeleton surrounded by foam is PRECISELY sized so that the outer shell bonds to the skeleton as well as the foam.  The skeleton isn't floating around inside of the foam which in turn mates with the shell.  The entirety of the system integrates to make for one tough mutha.

Guss, I personally hope that demand for this riser offers us enough encouragement to move all the way through our line of risers to include the RC riser.  I have to admit that it's my personal favorite because it's based on a few risers that i carved for myself a long time ago.  If this one does okay and is as well received as I expect it to be then it would be quite reasonable to expect an RC version one day.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Ground Hunter on May 04, 2010, 06:06:00 PM
Great stuff John!!  H
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: bowfiend on May 04, 2010, 06:08:00 PM
Sweet looking get-up right there! How's the balance of the bow with the limbs outweighing the riser?

Awesome!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 04, 2010, 06:13:00 PM
Levi, the balance is other-worldly good.  Holding and carrying it places the balance right in the throat of the grip where it belongs.  It's an awfully sweet-feeling bow, both to hold and to shoot.  The ACS generally feels different to most folks who've shot a bunch of bows.  This one will take that different feeling a notch or two farther.  I can honestly say I've never shot any bow ever that feels like it, and I mean that in a good way!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Gil Verwey on May 04, 2010, 07:01:00 PM
John good luck with this new design. I am sure it will be quite a performer. If it performs as well as you and your staff stand behind your bows it can't loose. Your customer service can't be beat. You went way above and beyond for me on one of your bows. I know I won't forget it.

Good luck and thanks again.

Gil
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Gil Verwey on May 04, 2010, 07:19:00 PM
John is there going to be a chance in the future of using this type of riser in your one piece bows?

Thanks
Gil
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Hooked on May 04, 2010, 08:20:00 PM
That is cool!  Makes a guy wish he had more money!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: SHOOTO8S on May 04, 2010, 08:31:00 PM
Waay cool John ! I can testify as how how much noise and vibration carbon limb wedges soak up....mate them to a carbon riser...wow!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: katman on May 04, 2010, 08:31:00 PM
Sweet. Should do very well with light riser lovers. If it deadens the shot more than the original acs you won't know you loosed the arrow. I bet you guys never sleep at night, just lay in bed and brainstorm great ideas. Great job from a great folks.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Hopewell Tom on May 04, 2010, 08:46:00 PM
You know, I thought when I found this site that it would help in my decision making process for a new bow. I'm like a pinball now, what with everybody showing off their new bows from whatever maker (each one more beautiful than the last)and now this. I've been to the website quite a bit and read all of John's posts. Sounds like you guys really have things figured out.
Keep it up and I may never be able to decide!!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 04, 2010, 08:51:00 PM
Hey Rod,
One of these days I hope to sit down with you and do a little more brainstorming.  I think you'd like the combination offered by the ACX and options it presents for the future.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: DTD on May 04, 2010, 10:46:00 PM
John,

Is the new riser offered in a low wrist version or what options are available?

Thanks,

Doug
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: MarkE2006 on May 05, 2010, 12:30:00 AM
WOW!  That is really sweet.  Takin it to a whole new level again.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Woodduck on May 05, 2010, 01:00:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by DTD:
Is the new riser offered in a low wrist version or what options are available?...
Yeah, and why didn't you name it the ACX-ACE?  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 05, 2010, 07:45:00 AM
Doug, the version we decided to come out with is the lowest-wrist model we build.  It has a nice locator area in the throat of the grip but the grip is pretty "low".
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Cherokee Scout on May 05, 2010, 07:52:00 AM
I am an A&H fan, this riser is very interesting.
Any plans for high wrist style?
I love the grip on my Apogee.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 05, 2010, 08:18:00 AM
John, eventually we'll offer this ACX version in all of our risers depending on the reception this one receives.  Each version requires a lot of tooling, molds, time, and expense.  So moving on to the next model will be a function of how this is received by our customers.  As I mentioned earlier I can't wait until we start building this in the 16" RC version because that's my personal favorite.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Big Ed on May 05, 2010, 08:43:00 AM
Great to see you on here supporting your products. As money allows I would love to try one of your bows. Big Ed
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: redant 60/65 on May 05, 2010, 08:56:00 AM
To all the A&H guy's great looking bow  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Bob Morrison on May 05, 2010, 09:17:00 AM
John, I like it, this should do real good.

Bob
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: smiley on May 05, 2010, 09:31:00 AM
If you are bringing some to try out at compton's I hope you can include a lefty
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Txnrog on May 05, 2010, 04:43:00 PM
So what's the cost $$??
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 05, 2010, 06:00:00 PM
Txnrog, our website has all the details about cost.  This model is priced about $125 more than an exotic-wood bow.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Ground Hunter on May 05, 2010, 09:38:00 PM
Looks like another marvel in carbon from the Skunk Works.  H
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Steelhead on May 05, 2010, 10:00:00 PM
Very cool and innovative John!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: Cody Roiter on May 05, 2010, 10:18:00 PM
John that looks cool.. Thats on my bows to shoot at Comptons..............
Nice work..........
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: JohnV on May 06, 2010, 02:31:00 PM
Hi John,

How does the performance of the new ACX limbs compare to the original design limbs of the same lenght?

How does the performance of the new takedown shorty bow in 58-60" lengths compare to the original design bow with 62" limbs for someone with 28-29" draw.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: joevan125 on May 06, 2010, 02:52:00 PM
I was getting ready to order another ACS 14in low rist grip but now im confused about which one to order.

I really like the 14in riser i had before and the only reason i sold it was because i was going to order one with some skins and a little heavier.

Man am i confused now!!!!!
Title: Re: Introducing new bow - the ACS -All Carbon eXtreme (ACS-ACX)
Post by: John Havard on May 06, 2010, 04:57:00 PM
How does the performance of the new ACX limbs compare to the original design limbs of the same lenght?

How does the performance of the new takedown shorty bow in 58-60" lengths compare to the original design bow with 62" limbs for someone with 28-29" draw.

JohnV, the ACX limbs offer the same energy storage efficiency and the same dynamic efficiency, so they will shoot the same speed.  The difference is: a) lighter in weight because of the carbon wedge, and b) a bit quieter because of the carbon wedge.  Obviously the appearance is different too because of the carbon overlays.

The whole idea about the new short line of 3PTD's was to equal the performance of our best longer bows in a shorter package.   The short answer to your question is that a 58" or 60" new short 3PTD will store a bit more energy than the original 62" limbs on an original 14" riser and therefore will shoot a couple/three fps faster.

Joevan, I have a simple solution for you:  buy both risers (I know, easy for me to say right?).   :)