So I'm finally in the last stages of my first bow getting finished and am off to thinking about arrows. I'm planning on getting the cheapest decent carbons I can find (not sure what arrows those are yet...) and have been thinking about fletching them myself. I have a guy from work bringing in 2 or 3 tail fans from past turkeys that he doesn't want, a line out to some guys for wings if they get a turkey this year, and another buddy going to collect some more feathers from various birds he has on his farm.
With all that, I should be good on feathers, but someone told me synthetic's the way to go. He mentioned real feathers getting wet in the field can cause problems-never thought about that.
1. Am I dumb to think about putting real feathers on carbons instead of wood arrows? (Would like to do wood in the future, but wife is not going to be working soon, so money will be tight, don't have some of the tools, etc.)
2. Are there more problems with using real feather fletching while hunting instead of synthetic?
Thanks for the help.
Jeremy
Hey Jeremy,
The answer to your first question IMO is do what YOU think will work...If it doesn't work try something else. There are always people on here that are happy to help. (i haven't been here long but feel like part of a big family when I am here). SO to amswer the question are you DUMB!!? NOOOOO! Do what you want. It's your set-up.
The answer to queation #2 my answer is not that I've noticed. I've shot real and synthetic, but I still waterproof both...why because they are feathers and apt to not fly as great when wet. However, a quick fix for wet feathers is to get a can of the spray on waterproofer from Wally World, (it's in the hunting/fishing area) it has an orange lid. Lightly spray your feathers either prior to or after fletching, (I do it after fletching), it will help keep the feathers dry in most conditions.
I hope this helps and good luck in you hunting adventures.
Well,,,that depends a lot on weather your shooting off the shelf or off a rest.
If your shooting off the shelf,at this stage of your game your pretty much going to need feathers,,,,and the geting wet affecting your arrow flight is well over played anyway.
I just don't worry about shooting wet feathers,because my bow/arrow tune is well up to it at the ranges I hunt at,,between 0 and 30 odd yards.
If your shooting off a rest,plastic vanes will shoot as well as feathers,are often more quite in flight,and cost less.
I guess the cost of feathers in your case ain't going to be an issue though.
I shoot both off the shelf and with a rest,so I use both when it suits me.
I have shot vanes off the shelf and with cock vane in I get good shelf/strike plate clearance,but it's not something I would recommend to new archers,simply because it adds complications they don't need during that part of the learning curve.
Basicly, you can do anything you like with real feathers as their very forgiving.
Good luck.
Thanks for the help guys-Earthdog, once I have the finish on my bow, I have a bear hair rest I got from Bingham's that I plan on sticking to the shelf. Are you saying that with a shelf like that, plastic vanes work just as well?
Jeremy
Jeremy,
What I ment is that "they can" work as well,but you really need to know more about tuning than you may do at this stage.
When I shoot vanes off the shelf,I'm shooting arrows that are on the lighter side of perfect dianamic spine for my bow.
That provides the paradox needed for the cock vane set up facing in to clear the strike plate.
The Hen vanes clear without any issue at all because the paradox has already moved them well away from the shelf.
You can't really shoot vanes off the shelf with the conventional cock vane out,because the lower Hen will still hit your shelf reguardless of the amount of paradox.
I shoot AAE Vanes and still see a little contact with the strike plate,but not enough to cause any problems,,,,,a slightly stiffer arrow and it would be a problem.
All that is why I said I wouldn't recommend it to new archers.
Another reason is that your arrow orientation is always going to be critical,and the last thing you need is to have a good animal in range,do all the right things but then nock your arrow the wrong way round without realising it,and then hit the shelf causing a miss,or wounded animal.
Mate,you just don't need the hassles while your learning to shoot and tune a bow,so really "feathers are just easier all round at this stage.
Feathers!! I wouldn't even consider vanes on a traditional bow. An unnecessary complication, and if your arrows are properly matched to your bow, wet feathers are not a problem.
trad archery means using feathered arrows.
plastic vanes are inferior substitutes for feathers in every respect save one - water resistance.
if getting yer feathers wet is a big concern, you have two choices (and one of them is NOT to use plastic fletching) - treat the feathered fletches with a waterproofing agent or use natural turkey or goose feather fletches.
unlike processed commercial feathers, these natural feathers contain oils that really do shed water. after a 10 minute dunking in water, guess which feather is processed, which is natural ...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/wetarras.jpg)
i don't know if you can buy precut natural feathers. making your own fletches is too easy and a fun way to enhance your personal participation in trad archery/bowhunting.
buy a feather chopper. pick up FREE canada goose feathers during the may/june moulting season by visiting ponds, parks, lakes and golf courses. or buy full length natural turkey feathers. strip and chop yer own naturally waterproof fletching.
canada goose feather fletching (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000106)
making turkey feather fletches (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000111)
I would say stay away from plastic vanes for two reasons when shooting off the shelf. One it is not traditional. More importantly for accurate shooting. Plastic vanes do not shoot well off the shelf in most cases. If any part of a plastic fletch hits the shelf or cutout on the bow it will throw your arrow flight off.
Use natural feathers and have fun making your own fletchings.
In MY Opinion, NO Carbons when You can get Relatively Inexpensive Wood Arrow Shafts!! You made a Good Bow, why Skimp on the Arrows?? Wooden Arrow Shafts can get You Anywhere You want to Go,ex.Length,Weight,etc.
Use GOOD Feathers On GOOD ArrowShafts!! You wont be sorry!! To put the Time into Making Your Own Bow, which I assume You are Proud Of, Shoot Some Class Arrows Out of that Class Bow!! :readit: Good Luck To You!! :archer:
as it see it, the problem with woods is that a newbie will never realize whether the miss was the arrow or form. woodies just aren't that consistent or durable.
Rob, do you really belive that if you shoot vanes on your arrows you are not Traditional?
Clarification:
This may be just a matter of semantics, but wanted to be sure I'm understanding everything correctly. When you guys refer to using plastic vanes, I'm thinking you are talking about those solid plastic ones. Perhaps I'm mis-informed, but do they make synthetic feather fletching? I was at the archery shop the other day and the "feather" fletching on some of the carbons certainly didn't feel like real ones. Are those real ones that have been treated/colored like you said Rob? Or are they a manufactured type of plastic to mimic feathers? Sorry for the dumb question.
And Rob-thanks for the links on making fletchings. Hopefully they'll come in handy soon :) . Do turkey tail feathers (from the fan) have the same water resistent properties as the wings? Looks like I'm going to have plenty of those pretty soon.
Thanks again
Jeremy
Shakes-
Well, you assumed right-I'm REALLY proud of making a bow that actually works...so far :) . One of the best things about trad is all the stuff I can make myself. So far I made my bow, a leather arm guard (not great, but heck-I made it), got stuff for a quiver, and for a stringer. I've got a friend willing to show me sometime about knapping obsidian arrowheads which I'd LOVE to put on some good wood arrows. I'd like to be able to make my own wood arrows, but I don't have any of the tools for it and my friend has the stuff I can borrow to fletch in the meantime. So, hopefully someday I'll be making some great wood arrows, too. Thanks for the input
Jeremy
QuoteOriginally posted by DesertDude:
Rob, do you really belive that if you shoot vanes on your arrows you are not Traditional?
my definition of trad is 'stick and string', so yeah, spin wings, plastifletch and kurly vanes are trad ... but u won't find them on my roving and hunting arras. :D
Just messin with you...Board at work today. :biglaugh:
I shoot carbons and wouldn't even think of putting vanes on them. Not aware of any synthetic "feathers" but, there's stranger things out there.
Trad or not I like my vanes shot off an elevated rest, I do use feathers of of most of my bows but my go to bow has a flipper rest and I shoot vanes,when I get a pass through on a deer on a windy rainy day and my arrow ends up in the mud I just wash it off in the nearest creek or puddle touch up the head and it's good to go :thumbsup:
Plastic vanes will pretty much require the use of an elevated rest. If you want to shoot off the shelf, stick with feathers. I have heard of a plastic vane that is made to be like a feather, but I've never seen one. I've been bow hunting and shooting for MANY years and have never used or needed plastic. I like the feather powder for waterproofing.
fwiw, i've test flown spin wings and kurly vanes off a trad bow shelf rest with no ill issues - the nock will need some rotation tweaking, as will the nock point. still, to me, vanes and trad bows are like oil 'n' water, aesthetically speaking.
I've never heard of synthetic feather fletching. Anyone have a pic?...Van
don't have a pic, van, but it's been around for decades, looks kinda sorta like a feather.
I use 4" feathers on carbon shafts -- 28" arrows for 26" draw. I've tried some vaned arrows just for fun and was pleasantly surprised they shot very well off the velcro shelf with the index vane turned up. My arrows are 600 which are the lightest spine available in the Beeman MFX shafts. I dumped the vanes after the experiment because it just didn't seem right on my recurve. I don't hunt in the rain because of a personal ethic having to do with blood-trailing. Like others have said though, do what you like if you can make it work. I have a friendly little litmus test for you though -- let's say you shoot feathered and vaned arrows. Which arrows will you show up in public with at the traditional shoot? Peer pressure bites a lot of folks pretty hard. You might not go to 3-D shoots. But if you do and you take the vaned shafts ... if your form is terrific and your results great... some folks will go home and buy some vanes.
Rob..
Do the turkey feathers repel water as well as the goose? I would guess not.
Also, do the oils seem to rub off after a few weeks of shooting?
I've thought about using the goose feathers. One thing that worried me the most is the life of the feather. The goose feathers I tend to find are much more delicate than the truefights. What is your experience?
Thank you!
Thanks for all the good advice. Quick question on which feathers, though-do they have to be wing feathers? I've read folks using left or right wing feathers and needing to keep them consistend. I'll be getting tail fans from turkeys tomorrow-can they be used since they don't have the same 'curve' that the wing feathers do?
Jeremy
Tail feathers are left and right just like a wing feather. They can be split and used, but they are softer and will make more noise than a good primary wing feather. And they will not last as long.
QuoteOriginally posted by Zradix:
Rob..
Do the turkey feathers repel water as well as the goose? I would guess not.
actually, both are quite waterproof
Also, do the oils seem to rub off after a few weeks of shooting?
i've had natural turk and goose feathers on arrows that saw rain a year after fletching and shooting, and both repelled the water
I've thought about using the goose feathers. One thing that worried me the most is the life of the feather. The goose feathers I tend to find are much more delicate than the truefights. What is your experience?
i've had canada goose feathers on woodie shafts for years, with hundreds of shots logged, and they look just fine
Thank you!
yer welcome! :D
Thanks a lot Rob.
Feather Hunting Season It Is!!!!
I'm getting ready to make some arrows for my Son.
He's getting a bow for his Birthday this weekend.
The bow was passed to him from a Very Generous Family here on Tradgang.
Feather hunting with him sounds like time well spent.
Thanks :thumbsup:
Oh no the trad police are on duty today LOL!
Shoot what you want. To the original question both synthetic and natural will absorb water but natural will repel much better b/c of the oils. I have hunted int he rainw ith some turkey feathers and they held up nicely.
I have no problem with plastic vanes and if you plan on hunting in very wet/moist areas often I'd suggest a rest and plastic vanes. In the end we are trying to kill animals here not impress joe next door!
As for the police...if you didn't make your own hickory self bow, make your own string, widdle arrows, use a flint napped head you made yourself and hunt in your deer skin clothing well you aint traditional! Enjoy your scent lock, carbon arrows, and all natural traditional feathers...
I've shot vanes off the shelf from both recurves and longbows. Not a problem at all. The current vanes are soft plastic and flexible, not stiff like the vanes of old. This allows some forgiveness in case of riser contact. Tuning the arrow a tad weak and cock feather in normally works for me. You can get by with a slightly weaker shaft than with feathers because they always recover even when wet.
I have been using wild turkey feathers and recently switched to goose for my hunting feathers. I live where it rains a lot, particularly during late season. Turkey feathers hold up fairly well to the rain. The goose feather fletching don't react to being wet at all.
QuoteOriginally posted by Deadbolt:
Oh no the trad police are on duty today LOL!
...
As for the police...if you didn't make your own hickory self bow, make your own string, widdle arrows, use a flint napped head you made yourself and hunt in your deer skin clothing well you aint traditional! Enjoy your scent lock, carbon arrows, and all natural traditional feathers...
please, don't go there - there are no 'trad police'.
what's 'trad' for you is your call, not mine, and that's all that matters most.
and for me, i'll draw the line at nothing other than feathered fletches on hunting and roving arras. ymmv.
Feathers are my choice too. But I remember back in the Pre-Cambrian period, when I was a teenager, vanes are what I had. Mom bought me a set of matched silver Bear target arrows for my Ben Pearson Colt. Rubber vanes, and they flew so nice! I was using a Bear Weatherest, I think. Little plastic fin stuck out of the side plate for the arrow to sit on.
Killdeer
Deadbolt :clapper:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
QuoteOriginally posted by Deadbolt:
Oh no the trad police are on duty today LOL!
...
As for the police...if you didn't make your own hickory self bow, make your own string, widdle arrows, use a flint napped head you made yourself and hunt in your deer skin clothing well you aint traditional! Enjoy your scent lock, carbon arrows, and all natural traditional feathers...
please, don't go there - there are no 'trad police'.
what's 'trad' for you is your call, not mine, and that's all that matters most.
and for me, i'll draw the line at nothing other than feathered fletches on hunting and roving arras. ymmv. [/b]
I only walked through the door you opened Rob.
I dont force my morals, values, and opinions down anyones through nor should anyone else. Your comments come off very strong and as if you are saying that is the ONLY way. I have been around the block a few times and know how to read these posts but new comers take most peoples word for law so be carefull how you word things. Thats how garbage is spread.
I would agree that the alum arrows are more consistent and when learning, that means a lot. You are correct about artificial feathers vs the natural feathers vs the plastic vanes. Plastic vanes just don't do it on trad equiptment.
Beyond the dying and sometimes striping, I'm not sure how different the "artificial" feathers really are from natural.
They should perform pretty well for you
sam
QuoteOriginally posted by Deadbolt:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
QuoteOriginally posted by Deadbolt:
Oh no the trad police are on duty today LOL!
...
As for the police...if you didn't make your own hickory self bow, make your own string, widdle arrows, use a flint napped head you made yourself and hunt in your deer skin clothing well you aint traditional! Enjoy your scent lock, carbon arrows, and all natural traditional feathers...
please, don't go there - there are no 'trad police'.
what's 'trad' for you is your call, not mine, and that's all that matters most.
and for me, i'll draw the line at nothing other than feathered fletches on hunting and roving arras. ymmv. [/b]
I only walked through the door you opened Rob.
I dont force my morals, values, and opinions down anyones through nor should anyone else. Your comments come off very strong and as if you are saying that is the ONLY way. I have been around the block a few times and know how to read these posts but new comers take most peoples word for law so be carefull how you word things. Thats how garbage is spread. [/b]
what door got opened?
thomas, i dunno where yer coming from, but i don't see where anyone so far in this thread has espoused it's my way or the high way.
feather fletches aren't the only way for everyone to approach trad archery, just my way. i still use 1.5" kurly vanes on carbons with one of my longbows ... off the shelf ... for 'target archery'.
no preaching needed by anyone, surely not you or i.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
[QB] trad archery means using feathered arrows.
plastic vanes are inferior substitutes for feathers in every respect save one - water resistance.
if getting yer feathers wet is a big concern, you have two choices (and one of them is NOT to use plastic fletching) - treat the feathered fletches with a waterproofing agent or use natural turkey or goose feather fletches.
Rob someone could percieve that the wrong way...am I wrong? That was your post from page one...now you are back peddling on your comments.
When I returned to traditional archery I had aluminum arrows set up with vanes. They worked fine but the traditional urge kept tugging my sleeve.
Then 3 years ago, I found TradGang. With due respect, after a few drags on the carpet, couple of trips behind the woodshed by the mods and some members, you oughta see me now!!!! (http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z314/Bowferd/DSC02756.jpg)
Find what works and enjoy all of the valuable information made available. :archer2:
Nice looking cane......