I am in college and have shot bows my entire life. I now comfortably shoot a 64# Bowtech Destroyer compound @28". I briefly shot a 50#@28 bear montana last weekend at cabelas and it seemed pretty comfortable.
I am looking to get into traditional archery and would like to buy a quality bow up front. I have read some things about the virtues of starting with a low draw weight. So my questions are:
What draw weight would you recommend? I would like to buy one bow and keep it for awhile and eventually hunt with it.
My actual draw length seems to be about 27.5 inches what length bow should I consider? I am fond of reflex/deflex longbows. Also what arrow length?
Are there any bows that you would recommend.
I apologize for another newbie post but I have really been struggling with the draw weight question and would love some help!
I would say nothing over 45#,lots of good bows on the classifieds,try to shoot as many as you can before buying.Bob Lee makes a great bow,Black widow,ACS,the list is long.
Welcome and good luck on your trad adventure. I'm new here, too and I second carpenter's remarks on shooting whatever you can get your hands on. I read a recent thread about folks favorite bows and it was a really long and varied list. It seems that most people have unique enough bodies, draws, hands, etc. that one bow would be great for them, but might not be comfortable at all for you. If possible try shooting some bows with different styles of risers as well as different components. I shot a friend's bow that has bamboo core laminations and wow was it smooth.
Best of luck
Jeremy
Personaly I wouldn't go over 45lb for a first stringbow,reguardless of what one shoots in a compound.
For the average deer sized critter 45lb has plenty of what you need.
I also wouldn't recommend trying to buy your first bow with the idea of making it a long term thing.
The reasons for that is that once you get more into this thing,your unlikely to be satisfied with your first bow for to long,and tastes do change a lot for some people as they both get better themselves and develope the "I wants" for other bows.
Totaly personal thing of course,but some of us have that "I want" thing real bad.
All the best,
ED.
I tend to agree with the others as far as sticking with your first bow. However alot of us would probably be better off if we would. We may shoot better and it deffinitely wouldn't cost us as much.
As for draw weight you are probably alright with a 50 lber. If you're only pulling around 27" that makes it roughly a 47 lber. As for arrow length several things come into play when deciding that. Style of shooting, draw weight and other things determine your arrow lentgh and spine.
Now to answer your main question if I could have only one bow it would be a Crow Creek Black Feather by Elmor Patten. I can say that though because several bows have made their way through my hands. I still own others also but every Crow Creek from now on that finds it's way to my home will stay here.
Welcome to the traditional side of archery. Stick with it and I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
Paul<><
Thanks for the help, I've been looking pretty hard at a martin savannah either a 45# or 50#. Seems like they can be had for under 300 and are a quality bow that shouldn't be too hard to offload later if need be.
What do you guys think in the used sub 300 range?
Set up your compound to shoot w/ fingers!
Practice w/ that and you trad bow.You will find the transition from release shooting to fingers a lot easier.
Nothing wrong with the Montana for your 1st bow, that's what I started with and really like it. Its quiet and packs a punch! I personally found it quieter and much less hand shock than the Savanah.
my opinions ...
read THIS (http://www.tradgang.com/docs/newbies.html) first.
it's *always* best to seek local one-on-one help with a knowledgeable trad archer/bowhunter.
if you want to learn, or be more proficient shooting trad, put the compound away and don't use it all.
for a newbie adult male, 45# holding weight stickbow tops - you want to learn form, and the low holding weight will always be helpful even after getting a higher weight bow. unless there were physical issues, i would advise going less than a 40# holding weight as too light a weight can introduce string release problems.
the arrow is more important than the bow - read that again. arrow selection needn't be all that critical, go with carbons or alums and stay far away from woodies.
enjoy the journey. :wavey:
anything in texas can be had with 45lbs. i shoot 46 just to be safe
Definitely do the classifieds for your first bow... i bought new my first time and have sold and traded 3 or 4 times until i found exactly what I wanted. If I wouldn't have bought new to begin with I wouldn't have lost any money in the trades or sells.
So find a 45 lbs bow that interests you, buy it as you learn more and try more sell it ( usually for close to the same price), buy something else used to try, and eventually you will end up with a bow that fits or you know what you want to get custom made.
Oh yeah, don't get too caught up in the whole try every bow thing. Yeah its fun to shoot every bow and there are hundreds to try but really and truly its the shooter that matters. Find one thats comfortable and aesthetically appealing to you and BAM! fling some arrows.
From reading a lot of well known archers comments & my own experience in the draw weight & bow length catagory, I would suggest the bow weight be no more than 40-45 pounds & the longest bow that you can get because for a new person in Traditional shooting & shooting with fingers the lighter bow weight will help in form training & the longer bow will reduce possible string pinch which can deter some new shooters.
I would suggest the first bow be a used bow because as the new archer progresses & becomes more proficient & their needs change the less cost of a used bow will help in getting used to shooting & what not, the person can then see what their next bow should be based on thier requirements or wants.
I still have my old 45* Bear Grizzly {cir. 72'} that my grandfather bought for me in 1981, I always seem to go back to her.
I agree with most said here. I would NOT go over 45# for first bow. I would NOT buy a new bow. You will go through a few, and your shootin' will change. What you think you like now, you may not care for after shootin' Trad a few months.
There's plenty of good bows out there. I got back into Trad shootin' after pickin' up an old Shakespeare 45# recurve for $75. Still have it, still like it, but it has been turned into my fishin' bow.
Start cheap, try alot, and have fun. That's what it's all about. :goldtooth:
40-45
Are you guys talking 45# @ 28? I believe my draw is about 27 inches (28 on compound) so would a 50@28 be close to 45 @27 and therefore be acceptable?
Get yourself something of moderate price used in 50#@28 and you'll pull 47#@27, get it set up right with some carbon and work on form. Try to get with somebody that knows what they are doing to help you. Try to go to some of the big shoots and check out the vendor booths and along the way look at and shoot as many different bows as you can, Over time you will figure out which way you want to go with higher end equipment. Keep the original bow and use it for fishing
bearsniper. 50#@28 would be about 47-48#@27. There's a good chance you might lose more than an inch of draw length moving from a compound to a stickbow, particularly a longbow that has a fairly straight grip.
QuoteOriginally posted by bearsniper:
Are you guys talking 45# @ 28? I believe my draw is about 27 inches (28 on compound) so would a 50@28 be close to 45 @27 and therefore be acceptable?
i'm
always talking
HOLDING WEIGHT at yer draw length - arrow length don't matter one bit.
I'm pretty new so take what I say with a grain of salt. I to shot compounds,72# and started with a 55# bear recurve. I had a 29"draw and had my elbow bent, now I shoot a 53# longbow with a 28" draw(and thats what I draw with it) Don't think your any less of a man cause you draw 45# not 64#. If I found this site before I bought my first recurve it would have been shooting a 45# bow and I would of worked my butt off withh my form , now I have to retrain myself on form and release. These guys know what you need take it all in. and thank them in the morning....my 2cents
David Sent you a PM - you might want to post over on Texasbowhunter.com - bet you can find somebody to shoot with or a trad shoot within reasonable distance to check out a number of bows. Don't have to go the custom route first go round - but there are some good options for used customs that are affordable.
As far as weight - I just started a couple months ago, and my draw length actually increased from what it was with a compound once someone worked with me on my form. I bought a #49 bow @ 28, and am getting aout 51-52 out of it. Stepping up to 55 or so for my next one.
just to add - finding someone to shoot with that knows what they are doing early on is a huge plus - I had someone helping me with my form from the moment I got into the shop - really helped advance my abilities without having to relearn a bunch of stuff.
Everyone has their own strengths, I would never suggest a poundage to anyone. I would suggest that you do your home work, learn what your form will be, how strong you need to be with what you decide, and what you like the most before breaking the bank. After all that, I would like to add that if you find a used 45 pound Bear Grizzly in good shape you cannot go wrong. They are fast, accurate, fit most people and forgiving.
QuoteOriginally posted by Txnrog:
just to add - finding someone to shoot with that knows what they are doing early on is a huge plus - I had someone helping me with my form from the moment I got into the shop - really helped advance my abilities without having to relearn a bunch of stuff.
this is worth bringing up yet again - a newbie will save countless hours and dollars by getting valid help from the get-go ... and avoid bad habits that might be hard to break later on.
QuoteOriginally posted by Txnrog:
David Sent you a PM - you might want to post over on Texasbowhunter.com - bet you can find somebody to shoot with or a trad shoot within reasonable distance to check out a number of bows. Don't have to go the custom route first go round - but there are some good options for used customs that are affordable.
As far as weight - I just started a couple months ago, and my draw length actually increased from what it was with a compound once someone worked with me on my form. I bought a #49 bow @ 28, and am getting aout 51-52 out of it. Stepping up to 55 or so for my next one.
I started just this last month with a 45 lb. recuve and have seen my draw lenght increase 1/2 in. I'm suprised how different the form is between a compound and a recurve.
bearsniper. The fellows here are very consistent in their recommendations and I would agree. I've recently come back to recurves after a 35-year trip with compounds, which I have no ill-feelings about. I'm a recurve fan. I used to shoot 76# compounds and now (because I still shoot a compound every 2-3 days and my recurves every day)my compound is 63#'s. I'm a form freak and it is extremely important that you be under-bowed before over-bowed. I'm amazed at the positive difference in just 3-4 pounds lighter draw weight. My 2nd recurve was a new Predator with 59# limbs -- too heavy for me! Now I stick to 49-52 pound (at 28") which makes 45-48 pounds for my 26" draw. A buddy of mine has been shooting longbows for 2 years. His LBs are 43 pounds. He shoots through deer and turkeys quite effectively. If your bow is too heavy the first thing you'll have trouble with is maintaining vertical form. Leaning towards the arrow does nothing but shorten your draw. Next you'll have difficulty establishing a solid anchor from which to "pull-through" the shot. Then, and this is too often-overlooked, you'll have trouble with the bow arm being active through the shot, towards the target rather than collasping toward you. That last one is the most difficult for me to master (a soft bow arm). Also, if you go lighter than you think you want, you'll have an eaiser time moving it to all the fellows who didn't ask the questions you are asking and bought one that is too heavy. Oh, those college shoulders are tough as nails now. YOu can keep em in good shape by warming up, cooling down, and by not being over-bowed.
First of all, I really appreciate all of the great advice given. Unfortunately, I didn't heed it as much as I should have-I can just see some of you guys adding another tally to the chalkboard.
I just ordered a 50# martin savannah, to be completely honest, I think I fell into the trap of wanting a bow I could keep for a pretty long time and being a macho 20 year old figured I could "handle it." Perhaps my only rational thought was, that my shorter 27ish draw length (measured by holding a stick to my sternum and reaching out) should make it around a 45 or 46#. I guess the idea of having a weaker bow just really bothered me-stupid I know.
So now I humbly come before you asking what to do now, the bow is in the mail and so obviously I haven't shot it yet. I have not gotten arrows yet but was looking at the gold tip traditional 3555 at about 29."
Any help, chastisement, reassurance, or honest recommendations as to my next steps would be appreciated. I realize that it may pay off more to go out and get a cheapie 40# fiberglass or something than to plagued by a life of bad form, if that is really a necessity.
I realize I may have made a mistake, I would just like to help mitigating the damage.
bearsniper,
I don't think you've made a mistake. Yea, you could have started with a 45 pounder and been shooting 42-43 but your 50# bow should pull 47-47.5 pounds at your 27 inch draw length. If you find you struggle maintaining form while drawing and shooting this bow, do you like you mentioned above and pick-up or borrow a lighter one to learn with. I'm going to recommend you spend $20 (I don't make a penny off this recommendation) and buy a DVD called "Beyond NASP". It authoried by Tim Strickland who has coached many US Olympic archers to all the medal metals. This DVD covers bow selection (compounds, recurves, and longbow). It covers mental aspects of archery, coaching, etc. The most important thing on the video is a very detailed section about "Eleven Steps to ARchery Success". Tim has a life-time (after returning from NAM) of recurve experience at very high (record setting and hunting) levels and uses this DVD to put it down. You can get the DVD by going to: www.nasparchery.com (http://www.nasparchery.com) You will be contributing $7.50 to NASP when you make the purchase. YOu'll also learn about the most important practice device an archer can make out of .50 worth of string -- the String Bow. Finally, you should be very careful about the advice you receive about how to shoot. I'm a form freak. Many will say "shoot however you want to - what works for you". You might luck into the correct way to shoot but I doubt it. Also, and I would never name names, you won't find 1 in 10 (unfortunately this is more like 1 in 1,000) who have been exposed to and mastered the correct process. I feel for some of the guys I meet on the Traditional Courses at "fun 3-D shoots". These guys are often veterans who have loved archery their entire lives. Many of these guys have given so much back to archery, they deserve nothing but positive experiences in archery. However, too many of them have horrendous form flaws, and they know it. They short draw, they have dead releases, their bow arms collaspe...and they simply start thinking about hunting their arrow before they even step to the shooting stake. These fellows can't even enjoy a perfect result in the target or the flurry of compliments from their peers when the hit the 10 because they know it was an accident that will be difficult to repeat. It is SOOOO much easier to learn right than fix things later. One last piece of advice, think only positive thoughts when evaluating your shot or the result. Sounds easy huh! How many guys mutter things like -- I didn't come to anchor, I shot too quuick, I collasped the bow arm, I jerked, etc. These are all wrong thoughts. Think about and say the wrong things and that's how you'll shoot. If the coach tells the lineman "Do not jump offsides" guess what the line man is thinkin about before the ball is hiked? How many guys shrug or drop their shoulders after a poor result. How many shake their heads or worse? Learn to know what a properly executed shot FEELS like and go for that feel every time. When a shot didn't feel right (didn't reach anchor for example) think "Next time I need to...." Focus on what you need to do rather than what you did wrong. Sorry about this long post but this is serious business.
more often than not, the listed weights on most stickbows is incorrect, some are off by as much as 4#, particularly with the larger commercial manufacturers. there was a stretch of time where martin stickbows were typically heavier than the listed weight ... sometimes i wonder if that wasn't done on purpose.
recently, a well known bowyer retested a bunch of his finished bows with a high quality digital scale and found his spring scale was showing an average of 1.4# higher for his bows.
so what does a true 50# stickbow actually feel like @ 28" draw? depends. line up 8 or 10 true 50#/28" bows and do the testing - some will just feel lighter and smoother than others. stickbow design, materials and craftsmanship plays as much a role as the draw weight.
for a newbie, finding a bow that's low enuf in weight to make the newbie job easier, yet high enuf in weight to offer a good release, would be a great, though perhaps difficult, goal.
Thanks Bowwild, I will have to check out that DVD I just ordered "Mastering the Barebow" vol I and II so hopefully that will get me going, seemed like a good program.
Also, having done some olympic style pistol shooting I am all too familiar with the importance of the mental game, I think it is the most difficult thing about individual sports and shooting in general.
bearsniper,
The pistol shooting experience will be good for you. Tim Strickland says competitive pistol shooting lead him to many of his proven theories about shooting a bow. Good luck with it. Remeber to get that rhomboid on the draw hand side moving to execute the release and then let the hand naturally, and very quickly "paint the face" under the ear so that the thumb of the drawing hand ends up on or near the shoulder after the shot.