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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: ber643 on January 07, 2007, 09:52:00 PM

Title: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 07, 2007, 09:52:00 PM
Awhile back (before Christmas) I posted about Mike Brooks (a Retired Navy Corpsman) that saw my posts on here and got in touch when he found out we lived close to each other. He then came to our Christmas shoot and joined our club, and I found he is quite a bowyer (of self and lam wood bows). Also he makes and shoots CANE arrows. Now, I've been interested in, and trying to get to make some Cane arrows since last ('05) fall. Mike came over to my place to shoot last weekend, as we had hit it off at the Christmas shoot, very well. We then made arrangements for him to give me first hand "Guidance" (instead of just working on my own) to start my Cane arrows. I did the first straightening course today. Yippee! Now I will do two or three more courses (as needed) here at home, and then we'll get together again for the following steps. Here are some pics in Mike's very nice work shop where I was applying his lessons. After that I will make another post re a great space saving tip for bowyer/arrow makers work shops. (Or anyone else's for that matter - LOL)

Heat gun to the nodes.

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/CaneStraightening3.jpg)

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/CaneStraightening1.jpg)  

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/CaneStraightening2.jpg)  

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/CaneStraightening4.jpg)

Oh, this is not a teutorial (we've had very good ones from more competant folks), it's just proof that I actually am doing what I've said so many times I was going to do - finally  :D
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ncboman on January 07, 2007, 10:15:00 PM
Bernie, good to see you takin em up but it's no fair workin from such a nice countertop.

I can't even see mine.  :D
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Woodduck on January 07, 2007, 10:40:00 PM
Have fun Bernie. I know you are happy with that labor of love.

That's a nice uncluttered workspace he's maintaining. Be NEAT...

We're watching and want to see every step...

Folks from cold parts of the US, and elsewhere, notice the open window, here in NC, in January     :cool:
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: sticshooter on January 07, 2007, 10:44:00 PM
woodduck I seen the window. I also seen that Bern don't have much room left on that hat! To bad I had someting that might have looked nice on it. And how in the world does he keep that shop sooooo clean!<><
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 07, 2007, 10:45:00 PM
Mike (and most shop operators) realize that the most wasted space in shops is "Verticle Space". I was impressed with Mike's way of handling that shortcoming, and I felt it might help others. I took a set of pictures that are pretty self explanatory - but I will make some remarks anyway - (you know me -       :p     )

If you have a space problem - go vertical with Power tools you don't use all the time - these are mounted on pieces of (I think Mike called it, CA) Board and slid onto 2x2 braces.


     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/SavingSpace1.jpg)

Make one of your work benches with two layers of (CA?) board, and make a cutout in the top layer the same size as the base boards on your power tools.

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/SavingSpace2.jpg)

When you need to use a tool, remove the cutout, leaving a recessed area


     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/SavingSpace3.jpg)

Go get your weapon - er, tool of choice from the verticle storage bin

     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/SavingSpace4.jpg)

(Two more pics on next post.)
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 07, 2007, 10:52:00 PM
Set the tool (and it's attached base board)at the recessed area


 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/SavingSpace.jpg)

Drop the tool into the recess - and, "VIOLA!" now you have your tool securly mounted in a work bench with penty of work space. How neat is this? Thank you Mike!

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/SavingSpace6.jpg)
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 07, 2007, 11:09:00 PM
Hey, Alan (ncbowman) glade to hear from you. OK friends, I accused Mike of being a neat freak - he told me his wife was a neat freak - but that he wasn't. All I got to say is, I didn't see Susan working in that shop any, so you figure who's a what. (Sure was a pleasure working there though after my "glory hole" - and to think, I  used to be one of those "A place for everything, and everything in it's place" guys too    :D   .

Frank, That hat is pretty well "used up" but ya never know. (Maybe I could put it on my "Barb" Back Quiver, or the Lacota one she made for me   :)  )
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Pat B on January 07, 2007, 11:40:00 PM
Hey Bernie. No fair starting with already straight canes.
   I like Mike's idea for storage and the cutout in the work bench. That would give me more room for shavings, dust and other collectables.   LOL   Seriously I will follow his lead on this one. My shop is a serious disaster.
   Looking forward to seeing your finished cane arrows.    Pat
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Todd Weldon on January 08, 2007, 12:35:00 AM
Way to go Bernie,, I've been thinking about making some Cane arrows for awhile and just kept putting it off. Scared of the straightening process I guess. Anyway, I've just finished a dz and all I have left is putting on some Tru-Oil for a finish. Can't wait to start shooting them.

Todd
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 08, 2007, 07:20:00 AM
LOL - I hear ya, Pat. Honest, they were'nt straight but had been bundled for awhile. Part of them I got from Matt E in late '05 (Shhhh! I can't believe I've waited so long) and the rest I harvested close to my house (and did pick and choose when cutting them- LOL) early in '06 as I recall. Mike did say I had gathered some nice ones - of course he also said I had two or three that will be Allatl Darts too - that'll work.

It was neat how easy (and fun) the straightening is once you get past the initial dred of "starting", isn't it, Todd? With heat the Cane almost seems to turn to hard Rubber, and just slides in the direction you apply pressure. Stays there pretty quick too, even though still quite warm to the touch. (Me: "Ouch," "Ouch," "OUCH!" Mike: "Told ya it gets hot, Bernie.")

I've been lucky in that Mike has a slug of them made up, and I have been able to shoot his, all three times we've got together - along with shooting each others bows. The Cane arrows are a pleasure and a wonder to shoot, just as those in the know say they are. Mike also has some very nice (and varied wood and type) bows he's made. I even got up close and personal with a Penobscott Bow - and with Bulletwood (neat stuff), etc. He's working on a nice Horse Bow now, along with other projects. I'm gonna fix most of my Canes (about 18 in this batch) for target shooting but then I will pick the best ones to replace the points with "Stone Heads" on for next Deer season.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: x_count on January 08, 2007, 09:18:00 AM
Well Bernie and I certainly had a good time yesterday workin' canes.  Could have done more but we spent a little time jaw jackin' too.  :)   And I am not a neat freak, I didn't even vacuum the shop floor last night after we finished!
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: vermonster13 on January 08, 2007, 09:20:00 AM
Very nice
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: TexMex on January 08, 2007, 09:29:00 AM
Very nice, indeed!
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 08, 2007, 10:59:00 AM
I do remember, Nick, and BTW I showed my Osage and Purpleheart nock you made (on an arrow) to Mike and he was properly blown away - he knows craftsmanship and quality when he sees it (and I love to show that thing off).

LOL - x-count (that's Mike) we did have a good time - including lunch prepared by a pretty lady, friendship from a huge dog who took to me imediatly (normally doesn't accept strangers so redily, I'm told), got a new bow given to me for young shooters (like my neighbor's son), that just needs some finish sanding, nock groove work, and final finish. It is made from a Holly sapling and Mike knocked it out in 30 mins. Yesterday (after it had had drying time) he just touched up the tiller and draw a little with his favorite bow scraper - a huge Bowie Knife. (Those were the only shavings he would have needed to clean up -    :D   ) Actually we were going to eat lunch off the floor in the shop - but Susan wouldn't let us    ;)   . We both shot that little Holly bow (and Dano's Snakey Osage he made for me), with Cane arrows, of course. That is a sweet shooting little bow. I will get a pic of it, as I got it, and after I do the little bit I have to do. thank you so much for that too, Mike. Good friends (as we all know) are such a blessing.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: TimBow2 on January 08, 2007, 11:57:00 AM
Great idea.............
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ChuckC on January 08, 2007, 12:54:00 PM
Is there a link somewhere that instructs us what to look for in a natural shaft.  Which type cane, what to look for in individual shoots of cane, etc.  I am very interested but incredibly stupid in this area.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Pat B on January 08, 2007, 01:28:00 PM
Chuck, You probably don't have river cane in your area. Too cold. One thing you want with cane and hardwood shoots is at least 2nd year growth. Usually with cane, the paper like sheath at the nodes is either deteriorated or gone all together. With hardwood shoots they will have small branches where leaves were the first year. Also you will want to cut cane and hardwood bigger than you want for arrows. Both will shrink when dried and with hardwood when you remove the bark.
   Cane plant stakes from hardware stores, and discount stores works well for arrows and are cheap to buy.
   You should have redosier dogwood and gray dogwood growing in your area. They are shrub type dogwoods not a tree. Either of these make excellant arrows. Maybe even viburnum.     Pat
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 08, 2007, 03:45:00 PM
What Pat said (he really is quite well versed on plant life in regards to primitive shafts), but just for info purposes, from what has gone on in the past on here, if you put "cane", etc. in the search you should find many threads about them, some with pics (in case you take a trip further South). Also there is at least one guy, that sells them by mail order, that comes on here once in awhile. Mike and I were talking about that yesterday also.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ChuckC on January 08, 2007, 04:13:00 PM
Thank you, yes we have the Dogwoods by the truckload.  Need to go looking I guess.  Can I still harvest them this time of the year ?

Chuck.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Deerstalker on January 08, 2007, 04:33:00 PM
Is that Mike Brooks a semi famous muzzleloader builder as well?
Bryan
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Dano on January 08, 2007, 04:44:00 PM
I have been waiting for this moment patiently for at least 2 years maybe three. A fine start Brother B.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 08, 2007, 08:15:00 PM
I know, Dano, I'm such a slow starter, friend. As I just stated somewhere, I've had a love affair with Cane arrows ever since you sent me that one you made me 2 or 3 years ago. Mike is just beginning to realize what a blessing he is to me for this "Kick-start" -    ;)

Bryan, I don't believe so, as I know his wife likes to shoot MZ, and I mentioned I had a couple BP pistol I had built from kits, and he didn't say anything about it - and we were discussing our various "interests" at the time. On the other hand it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out he was, as he is a fairly modest guy, I think.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 08, 2007, 09:38:00 PM
Here is the "30 Minute" Holly Bow That Mike made and gave me for starting youngsters off. 61", 25# @ 24", and a sweet shooter. I will fine sand it, clean up the nock grooves, finish it, and fix a grip - show you those pics later.


  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/HollyUnstrung.jpg)

  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/HollyStrung.jpg)
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Pat B on January 08, 2007, 11:15:00 PM
Chuck, Now is the best time to harvest hardwood shoots and cane. I'm going out tomorrow to collect some sourwood shoots. Get shoots bigger than you think...even up to 1/2". They shrink when they dry and when you scrape the bark off. Cut then and bundle then together(I usually do 10 to 15 per bundle) and let them dry before you remove the bark or they will chech. After a month or so they should be ready to start. I use a thumb plane to reduce mine to where I like them and to reduce the spine and use the gas kitchen stove and olive oil to straighten them.   Pat
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: BamBooBender on January 09, 2007, 12:23:00 AM
Good for you sir!  :thumbsup:  I'm sure they'll come out great!
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 09, 2007, 09:17:00 AM
Thanks, it amazes me how good the shafts (Canes) look after just the first pass.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 10, 2007, 08:32:00 AM
I'm sanding on the little Holly bow now, in prep for finishing it, and will also be running more passes on straightening the Cane shafts - plus finishing about three that are ready for that too.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ChuckC on January 10, 2007, 09:19:00 AM
Thanks Pat.  This is gonna be fun!
ChuckC
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 13, 2007, 12:13:00 PM
Here is the little Holly Bow Mike made in 30 Mins., and gave to me to finish and use for youngsters, etc., starting out. I put a coat of Danish Oil on then drew on the Indian Symbols (Thunderbird for overall well-being and Gathered Tee Pees for community), a spray of Polyurathane over the symbols, topped with the second coat of Danish oil. After that, three coats of Tru-oil, fine (0000) steel wool between all coats. A Ferett Floppy rest and leather gripwrap. I also served the string and added fur strip silencers, as kids like the look of them. I use NZ wool yarn for my personal bows, but I also like the look of fur on wood bows. Just getting my feet wet - thanks for the bow and the opportunity, Mike.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/HollySymbols.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/Holly1.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/Holly2.jpg)

Of course the Full Draws are only full draw of the bow, about 24-27# @ 24" "Sloopy" and "Camo Dog" in the background for moral support -

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/Holly3.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/Holly4.jpg)
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Dano on January 13, 2007, 12:56:00 PM
Nice job Bro!! the kids will love shootin that baby.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Pat B on January 13, 2007, 09:29:00 PM
That's a great little bow, Bernie. I like making bows for kids. I usually donate a bow or set to the Carolina Traditional Archers each year for the state shoot raffle.  It's up to us to pass it on. Pat
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 14, 2007, 01:16:00 AM
You guys both got that right. Gotta get some dowel arrows ready for it also.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 22, 2007, 06:52:00 PM
All Righty then - here are my first three Cane Arrows. I shot them yesterday, when Mike came over to shoot, then finished them in the evening and this AM. Put The Rabbit Fur tracers on just a few minutes ago. They have wild Turkey fletchings that I stripped by hand and cut with a Vario Cutter. Because of the soft quill piece they didn't all cut real symetrical. However, they look fair on Cane and they flew well. I do think the next ones I do, I'll leave fletching full shape when I fletch and then trim to Indian shapes, by hand, for a more primative look.
The largest of the three arrows spined a little heavey for my bow (was rapping the shelf) but flew fine out of Mike's heavier weight bow - so I put a heavier tip on it and will try it again. One spines about 40-50, one 50-60 and the third pretty much at 70 but all shoot good, except for the one rapping which I hope is corrected now. If not I'll give it to Mike - LOL. Oh, after sanding nodes and shafts some, applied three coats of Tru-oil, with 0000 steel wool light buff between coats. I was wanting to get the first ones done, and forgot all about any decorations. As you can see I used Plastic nocks on these but will use self nocks on some, to be used for stone-head, hunting arrows. I also will bind some feathers leading ends, if not all, etc. One pic is against tile floor, the other against a rug - same arrows.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/CaneArras1.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/ber643/CaneArras2.jpg)
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Dano on January 22, 2007, 08:12:00 PM
Those are some great lookin arras Bernie. You can always add decoration.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: x_count on January 22, 2007, 08:32:00 PM
Yep, ole' Bernie is stung for sure now!  No going back once you get to shootin' cane.  And let me tell you he was shootin' them well too.  Even the stiff one was pretty much hitting where I THINK Bernie was shooting.   :D   If the spine doesn't soften up enough on it though I'll be a man about it and take it off  his hands.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 22, 2007, 08:41:00 PM
Thank you Dano - you are now witnessing the fruit of your seed - planted back when you sent me my first cane arrow - which I still have. Many others of our friends (Matt Edwards, Mickey Lotz, Calvin of Canada, Pat B of NC, and now Mike Brooks) have encoraged and informed me along the way (but I am a slow starter - LOL). I thank you all.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 22, 2007, 08:44:00 PM
LOL - yer all heart, Mike - Always did respect the "stuff" FMF Corpsmen are made of.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: x_count on January 22, 2007, 09:07:00 PM
I retired, I didn't say I was gonna quit takin' care of my Marines!!!
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 22, 2007, 10:01:00 PM
:thumbsup:  That'll work -   :clapper:
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 22, 2007, 10:03:00 PM
:thumbsup:  That'll work -   :clapper:
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: TimZeigler on January 23, 2007, 06:32:00 AM
Bernie,
Nice work on the arrows, they turned out great especially for your first 3.  I think I broke at least that many trying to straigten my first one out.  They are a blast to build especially the primitives.  Make sure you post some of your next ones with the self nocks and designs.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: 4runr on January 23, 2007, 07:36:00 AM
Lookin good Bernie!!
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Matt E on January 23, 2007, 07:50:00 AM
Bernie, your arrows are nice! You are way to talented!
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 23, 2007, 10:04:00 AM
Ha-ha, with a lot of help from my "friends" (like you), Matt. Thanks, Kenny and T, also. It's a start I hope to build on and soon have an arsenal of these arrows with the marvelous properties.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: shawnee on January 23, 2007, 11:12:00 AM
Bernie,

Those look great.  I have a few cane shafts that were given to me at MOJAM last summer.  I've been meaning to get them started, but have been putting it off.  I think you have inspired me to go ahead and start on them.  Maybe I can have some done by OJAM this March.

Hope they turn out as nice as yours.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 23, 2007, 12:49:00 PM
Thank you, Shawnee. I'm sure they will and you'll have fun in the process.
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: Linc on January 23, 2007, 06:40:00 PM
Dang Bernie.Thems some fine lookin arra's. Ya dun yo-self proud.  :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:    :notworthy:
Title: Re: Finally Started my Cane Arras (and saving shop space hint for you)
Post by: ber643 on January 23, 2007, 08:19:00 PM
Thanks, Linc, old buddy.