I notice on the Howard Hill Achery website that what they call the "normal" limb tip has no tip overlay. They also sell both B-50 & FastFlight strings. I'm curious if the tip overlay is recommended for use of FF string. The website doesn't say, or I can't find it. I like the looks of a Hill style longbow without the tip overlays. Just seems more authentic looking to me, I guess. Also, I've seen some older Hill-style bows with a short reverse tapered strip of fiberglass laminated between the inner lams of the limb tips. Would this be considered adequate limb tip reinforcement for use of FF string? Thanks in advance for your input.
Yep. The limb tip wedges are adequate to handler fast flite strings. Of course, limb tip overlays add even more strength, but they're probably overkill. One caveat. The fast flite type strings I've received with some of the new Hills I ordered did not have padded loops. A 10-12 strand string without padded loops can cut into the string groove fairly quickly and saw off the tip. I make my own strings so quickly replaced those that came with the bows with my own. In HH Archer's defense, I didn't ask for padded loops. Just assumed they would be. If you decide to go with a fast flite material string, ask for padded loops.
HH Bows are great with B50. I've got 3 - 55, 60 and 70 pound - B50 great I'm getting no handshock. You really will not get much from FF with a Hill style bow IMO. Call and talk to Craig - he build them - get it from the MAN. Don't get the idea I'm into only slow bows. I run Widows and ACS-CX with D97. It is just the Hills are an older design - B50 is fine. H
Ground: There's no doubt that Hills do well with B-50, but they do even better with something like D-97. The latter reduces limb vibration and gives a few more fps. I've talked with Craig about strings (every time I buy another bow). His preference is dacron, though I think it's based more on keeping the tradition than performance. There isn't a big difference, but there is a difference. Hills are certainly strong enough to handle the fast flite stuff. Whatever floats your boat, Clint. Good luck.
I like to shoot D97 on my Hill's,the bow just feels better and I feel quieter then with B50.I've shot B50 on my Hill's also and they did fine bare with no silencers,but add some silencers and the handshock greatly increased.Now D97 the bow feels great and add a pair of whoolie wisps and it is quieter and just plain shoots better in my opinion.
Thanks for your input, guys. I've been shooting r/d longbows with non-stretch FF strings for quite a few years, and lately D97. It's not so much a speed thing with me. It just seems like non-stretch strings are more durable and the brace height doesn't bounce up and down so much. If I were into speed, I'd be switching to a recurve. If I get a staight limbed longbow and it's recommended for B50, that's what I'll use. I do think the limb wedges look cooler than tip overlays on a Hill style longbows. Cedar arrows also look cooler, but I don't know if I'm ready to make that leap yet.
I just re-read my last post & realized what I said about brace height might be confusing. I'm not talking about the string vibrating up & down. I'm just saying that the brace height of a B50 string is prone to change, so you have to keep checking it more than a FF string.
I use FF on my Hill, just feels better to me.
Nothing but FF on all of mine except for the Miller all bamboo.
I have shot both the D97 and B50 strings on my Dave Miller Old Tom, I am sticking with the D97. Not because it is faster, which I believe it is, but because the bow is smoother and quieter with it.
It is a noticeable difference, and the fact that after an initial break in you can set your brace height and it pretty much stays right there is great too. Less to worry about.
fastflight helps alot with handshock.
B50 for my 2 Hills, never a problem.
Well, maybe I'm just fortunate, but I never have trouble with brace height changing on my B50 strings. After making one I leave the bow strung a couple of hours, make a final adjustment, and that's it--once the stretch gets out of them they stay right there. I think B50 is just easier on the bow and gives me plenty of performance. It also seems to have a softer feel on my fingers--may be just my imagination but it feels that way.
B-50 on my Hills, never tried anything else, have been happy with it and never felt the need to try something different. Interesting information though.
Clint,
From my experience here is what you get from using no stretch strings on a HH bow: (1) a few more feet per second, not much. (2) The smaller diameter the string (ie: 10-12 strands or less) doesnt provide much in speed but it does place more stress on the arrow since it is lighter and, therefor, will cause you to have to increase your spine weight in the arrows you use. In affect, you can use this as a tuning method depending on what arrows you have or that you want to shoot. My personal belief is that it makes the bow more efficient when shooting heavier arrows (ie: using a smaller diameter no stretch string). Have fun with it no matter what.
anyone try a skinny ultra cam string on a Hill?
it has made some average shooting bows good shooters for me lately and i am gonna try some Hills i like the lower strait grips! thanks Ralph
I'm about to try one on mine.
I just got a new Northern Mist Shelton and it came with a 9 strand D97 string.
I'm not quite sure what that has to do with a HH bow built by Craig Elkin?
Yeah, guess that was a little vague :( . The point I should have made is that NM bows are Hill style bows that used to come with dacron strings but now Steve ships them with very skinny D97 strings. I have been a dacron-on-Hill bows guy for a long time, but the D97 rocks on the Shelton. Gonna try one on my Hills if I can get my hands on another soon...Dave
Ok - cool! David my take is this, and I've talked to Craig. I tried D97 on my Hill's and they are all 70 inchers. The advantage was a maximum of about 2fps gain. Some difference in feel. "Handshock" - I really can't say, I don't have it with B50. I have a lot of bows. Some are high vels. like the ASC-CX and Widows. I use D97 on them. The older style Hill bows, I run B50. I don't need to juice up a Hill for power, I'll just take the ACS. Then again, if I want power out of a Hill, I have a 70#er that will zip a heavy arrow with the best of them. If I had only one bow (God forbid) and it was a Hill bow and I needed all the power I could get, I'd run D97 during a hunt and put the B50 back on for the off season. What's funny is that with the highly efficient bows I have, I find myself shooting the 70# Hill bow about 3 times as much as the others. They take some work to shoot - but that's what I like about it. I think that making a commitment to a Hill bow is like buying a black powder rifle - you have to "enjoy" the limitations. H
I have a half breed model that was from a Craig Ekin blank, it is tillered so that it functions very well at my shorter draw. I was told by Craig that the fast flight may shorten the life of the bow. i put a padded fast flight on it, there may be a little less vibration and maybe a couple of feet per second more, but not enough to tell by shooting it. I put the dacron back on it, since it is more than fast enough and does not really have any real hand shock for anyway. On a shorter Hill it did make a little more of a difference.
OK, since we've opened the string issue up I would like some opinions about something that I experienced recently. I decided to make another dacron string to replace the one that came on my Hill Wesley Special. When I put it on the bow, there was considerably more recoil (hand shock) in the bow than I had ever experienced--normally a very pleasant bow. When I went back to the old string it was sweet and gentle again. I called Craig and asked if by any chance the original was Fastflite--he said not unless I ordered it that way. He wasn't sure why I had that happen either, so I am open to ideas.....anybody want to take a stab at it :confused: ........Dave
Hmmm.... I'm assuming you kept the brace height the same. Same number of strands? Twisted substantially tighter? Maybe a different brand of string? Those are the only things that come to mind that would be likely to make a difference.
The best string type really just depends on the specific bow.
I almost always get a better feel out of my own dacrons. I tie them with three skeins and get them much tighter in the loops and ends than commercial strings. I try to avoid having to put excessive turns in the completed strings, ten to fifteen is my average.
David -
What weight arrows were/are you shooting with the Hill? The dacron will not transfer as much energy from the limbs to the arrow as a FF or D-97 will, so the excess energy will naturally stay with the bow resulting in a different feel when shot.
Those long slender deep cored Hill limbs will store up "tons" of energy. It has to go somewhere when shot. If not transferred to the arrow.........
:archer2:
I shoot Dacron on my Hill(s), and have enjoyed good performance through goats and pigs.
Hello, Clint
I am a Hill bow shooter and have always used dacron B-50 - one bow, a Big Five does not have a tip overlay and A Wesley Special I have, does. As far as the dacron goes, I will not get an overlay on a next HH, if that occurs, and am quite satisfied with the overall performance with dacron.
Ric, I shoot the same arrows (cedars usually about 525 grns.) but I'm talking about two different strings that are BOTH dacron but feel very different. Same bow, same arrows, same string material--never had such a different feel from what is basically the identical set-up....Dave
David, after I make a string, I leave the bow strung overnight to let it fully settle in. Then retwist to brace of 6.5 on my 70inchers. H
David Mithchell, just read this post, and like
Dick asks. String overly twisted?
I've shot alot of Hill Bows, High performance or Dacron, too much twists will kill the integrity!
I prefer High performance materails for Heavy, hunting, arrows! Close shooting, quicker stabalizing arrow, and quieter, with no string silencers.
A string with too much twist, will stretch a whole lot more than a properly made one. Plus wasted material, to make.
If this is the case, try shortening up an inch or so on the next one.
Hills are great! Good shootin,
Steve
Nope...not too much twist and I do leave the bow strung overnight to allow for stretch. I am not a novice at this string making thing as I have done it for years. this particular time it puzzled me. Just sort of mystery to me. Thanks for the suggestions, guys.....Dave
Dave I have had the same thing happen.After the string got shot in good it seemed to settle down.Maybe the nock fit was wrong or something on the new one that plucked the string more but I sure could not see any difference looking at them. Same material,serving ect but one was well shot and the other just twisted up.I stretch my strings well before putting them on and leave glass bows strung a day or two so it really won't much difference in the twist. :confused:
Dave, I understand, but leaving braced overnight, is not the same as shooting. There's a whole lot of shock on the string, when shot, then braced!
If not sure, make another string, and see. Your original has how many shots thru it?
I'm sure you make a good string, but as James states, give it a chance, or shot, in this case!