Who shoots the skinny carbons????? do they really make a difference???I know if the arrow is put in the write spot any one is good.But do skinny arrows give you a little edge????
I would like to think so. I have been shooting the Axis shafts for at least 3 years. They are durable and I do get pass throughs on a good majority of my shots.
ALDO
Skinny shaft = better penetration than thick shaft. It is a simple matter of friction. Lower surface area of the shaft = lower friction coefficient acting against the flesh or bone of the animal.
Huge difference? Read the Ashby Reports he covered the percentages of improvements with skinny shafts very thoroughly. There is an improvement in penetration of everything else the same arrows with one having a skinnier shaft.
I shot axis in my wheelie days and Just made up some with 4-4" fletch for my recurve, haven't killed anything with them with the trad set up, but they fly like a small dart. I hope they do as well with the new longbow I ordered as they did with the wheel-bow, penetration was unmatched, Period...
I used to trad hunt deer with 2314s(very large diameter) and I had trouble with penetration more times than not. I now use Beman MFX Classic skinny shafts and have not had trouble with penetration at all on deer, so far. I believe there is definitely an advantage by using skinny shafts. Just like what's already been said: less surface area=less friction=better penetration.
i wouldnt doubt that skinny carbons penetrate better...
but with any shaft including 23/64 woodies..a well placed arrow , flying true, with a sharp head..equals dead.
Find a arrow that flys true from your bow and work on shot placement.....
I shoot Beeman MFX Classics -- 600 out of 47# at 26 inch draw but 27.5 inches long. They fly great with 75 grain inserts and 100 grain broadheads (3-blade Montec and 2-blade Bear or Magnus Stingers). They are extremely durable except eventually, with tight groups I get some rubbed off finish on the sides of the shafts. I like the narrow because my centershot is maintained very well. I would buy these shafts again. I think Axis n-fused would be the same without the wood-grain finish. I'm about to try some Easton 1916 also --Legacy as soon as I can get uni-bushings and cut off the swaged nock end.
QuoteOriginally posted by jacobsladder:
i wouldnt doubt that skinny carbons penetrate better...
but with any shaft including 23/64 woodies..a well placed arrow , flying true, with a sharp head..equals dead.
Find a arrow that flys true from your bow and work on shot placement.....
and that's all she wrote! :thumbsup:
I shoot .600 Goldtips Entrada form my 38 lbs longbow. With a 125 grains tip and a 20 grains weight adapter they fly great.
But so do my 5/16 45-50 POC's with a 100 grains fieldtip.
My entrada's give me 9.6 grains/lbs, my POC's give 10.8 grains/lbs. Can see difference in speed, but NOT in penetration. The KE stays the same.
QuoteOriginally posted by 3Feathers:
Who shoots the skinny carbons????? do they really make a difference???I know if the arrow is put in the write spot any one is good.But do skinny arrows give you a little edge????
He already knows that "if they're put in the right spot that any of them are good".
He just is wondering if they might "give you a little edge".
And I say, yes, I believe they do.
QuoteOriginally posted by Flying Dutchman:
I shoot .600 Goldtips Entrada form my 38 lbs longbow. With a 125 grains tip and a 20 grains weight adapter they fly great.
But so do my 5/16 45-50 POC's with a 100 grains fieldtip.
My entrada's give me 9.6 grains/lbs, my POC's give 10.8 grains/lbs. Can see difference in speed, but NOT in penetration. The KE stays the same.
He's wondering about "skinny" carbons, and not just carbons in general. I believe that would include 9/32" diameter and smaller. So, KE isn't really an issue. It's more of a friction thing and how it relates to penetration when comparing large diameter verses small diameter.
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:
QuoteOriginally posted by Flying Dutchman:
I shoot .600 Goldtips Entrada form my 38 lbs longbow. With a 125 grains tip and a 20 grains weight adapter they fly great.
But so do my 5/16 45-50 POC's with a 100 grains fieldtip.
My entrada's give me 9.6 grains/lbs, my POC's give 10.8 grains/lbs. Can see difference in speed, but NOT in penetration. The KE stays the same.
He's wondering about "skinny" carbons, and not just carbons in general. I believe that would include 9/32" diameter and smaller. So, KE isn't really an issue. It's more of a friction thing and how it relates to penetration when comparing large diameter verses small diameter. [/b]
To inform you, Goldtip Ultralight Entrada's .600 have an o.d. of 0.280" which equals almost 9/32" (0,281")
So I think that GT Entrada's .600 are a "skinny carbon!"
Further I compared the penetration between the skinny GT's and a normal 5/16 shaft and I didn't notice much difference, thus answering the question of the poster.
With KE I mean that the GT's fly way faster, but their weight is less, so you end up with the same KE as with POC, which are heavier but fly slower. This explains the same penetration depth.
Flying Dutchman,
My mistake on the dia. of the GTs. Sorry.
I'm still curious as to how you compared the two as to the difference in penetration. In general, I can't imagine there would be no difference between a 9/32" shaft and say a 22/64" or even a 5/16" shaft.
I did a penetration comparison with my 2413's and axis in my glendel buck to prove it to a friend, I'm no expert but lets just say my friend now shoots axis arrows.
I have used axis 400's & now 5oo's for about seven years now. They most deftly have good penetration. And at 20 yards, it is possible to robin hood, I have done it three times in the past five years at 20 yards. And the one thing it has taught me, is the shaft does not come apart, it only spreads,
Carl
I haven't shot the real skinny carbons.I did shoot 11/32" diameter arrows for decades-wood,fiberglass and aluminum.I now shoot 5/16" carbons and have some 5/16" aluminums.There is a definite increase in penetration though I haven't measured the difference in just that change.
Dr Ashby says that the shaft should be at least 5% smaller than the ferrule diameter and that the average penetration gain,with that,is 10%.
I just settled on 5/16" because it is a little easier when fletching helical and there is such a wide assortment of inserts,nocks etc that fit them.I don't know how much better the skinny carbons would penetrate but I can't see a downside.I'm told that some of them are extremely tough.
@Ishootforthrills:
No probs here. As I am shooting 3D only, I am not interested in penetration (and I am speaking 3D shooting only here :) )I shoot on a ethafoampack. This damps/absorbs a LOT. That's why it lasts that long. Especially Ethafoam 600. I think that my arrows at a distance of 25 yards are half a feet deep in. If it is 0,5 feet or 0,55 feet (10% more), I wouldn'have noticed it. But I will measure it up these days, because I am curious myself by now.
Flying Dutchman,
Thanks for the reassurance, man. Sorry if I may have come across in an unmannerly way. I reread my post and I understand. I see where I may have gotten defensive.
Thanks for your patience. :)
In the meantime, I'm still sticking to my guns that skinny penetrates better. But, no offense intended towards anyone! :)
@Ishootforthrills:
Sometimes the written word seems a lot harder then the spoken word. I mean by that that pe tekst sometimes looks different and harsher then you really meant. I understand you only meant it well, so I really don't have any problems with it. I wouldn't belong on a forum if I would.
I shoot the axis-type arrows 99% of the time. I don't have any hard data or #'s or figures to quote...but I believe the skinny arrows might have an edge in penetration but not one I think I could measure. However, I am convinced they are tougher than standard shafts because of the thicker walls and that is more than enough reason for me to shoot them.
Since carbons became popular I think I have shot and hunted with most of them. I have settled on Axis or Beman MFX shafts. Before that I had been shooting AD and I have found, without exception, I get pass thrus on my big game kills unless I hit the offside shoulder. Never had penetration that good although Carbon Express shafts were very good to me and would be my second choice.