Trad Gang

In early prep for my planned elk hunt. Have the location, ordered topos. But then was thinking bout meat preservation.

    I know what some of you guys are thinking..... See one then shoot one 1st.

   My question is;
                 After quartering meat, pulling out tenderloins, Im reading that you would next put meat in cheese cloth bags and hang em. How long would the meat stay in that condition? Ill be hunting Co in Sept, so temps, from what Ive seen are 50 to 70+. I would def have to make more than 1 trip so that seems like at least a couple of hours sitting.

    Any deer ive shot have always been on ice in 2hours. Between time if quartering and packing the elk ,that seems to be much longer.

    Also, do most of you guys just use a external pack frame and pull the pack off to load meat out?

    I know these questions may seem stupid but it would just kill me to shoot a nice elk then have the meat waste.

If promptly field dressed and hung in the shade, it should be good for a week if the temps stay under 60.  Bets are off if you exceed either of those limits.

It sounds like you will be much quicker in getting the elk cooled, so it should be good.

Dave - some thoughts...

Your questions are not stupid - great questions - something we all need to keep in mind.

On occaision, I've stopped hunting and hunted back closer to the truck when it suddenly occured to me "no way can I get an elk out of here without losing meat".  CO in early September can get into the 90's.  Something I always keep in mind is how to keep the meat relatively cool if I kill an elk.  I have always used my back to get my elk out so, yes, it can take a while.  I bone out the meat and put it in cotton bags NOT cheesecloth.  Flies will lay their eggs right through cheesecloth.  I have a bunch of cotton pillowcases I use.  I carry enough in my pack while hunting to bag up an elk.  Hang the bags in a low, shady place - along a creek would be great.  I hunt with a packframe with small pack attached so I can pack the first load out immediately.  Get that load to truck and on ice, strip pack frame down and head back to elk - repeat, repeat...

Enjoy your hunt - take care  -  Charlie

Alot of this depends upon temps obviously but I think everyone will agree that cleaning and skinning quickly are the key. Openining up the larger areas (like the hip sockets and shoulder) if your only going to quarter to make sure they cool quickly is also key. I usually carry a large can of black pepper to spread over the quarters or the boned meet in the event flies become a problem. That trick works well for flies. Good luck and have fun.

Dave-

What Charlie said!!  Just remember that the most important step to getting that meat cooled off is getting the hide off the critter!  I once shot a spike bull (my first trad kill) about half hour befor dark.  I skinned it out to the base of the head and got the meat off one side and hung up in a tree in heavy duty game bags, the other side was skinned out but left on the carcass, was already quite late and had a substantial hike out.  The temps dropped to upper 30's or low 40's that night.  When I returned early the next morning and commenced the butchering I decided to skin up the head a little further just to see how much difference there was in meat temp (hide on vs. hide off) much to my amazement I only went up 1 inch and the meat was warm, I mean warm to the touch still!  So get that hide off at all cost, even if late in the evening, or night.

Good luck to you, and shoot strait!

Travis

The neck is very thick and holds heat.  Get it boned out quickly also.

Colorado day time temps CAN be extremely warm the first half of September.  I am talking about 8,000 to 10,000 feet elevation.  The sun is REALLY hot, so shade is a requirement.  

I bone out the meat so I can carry fewer packs.  If I am camping with friends at the trail head we actually bring a smaller chest freezer and gas generator.  If not,  I had always brought heavy guage plastic bags, big ones.  I can always place the game bag of meat into the bag and submerge in the stream that is right there.  

I would NOT put warm meat into the plastic bags without the stream addition.  Hanging in the shade is good,  hanging them in the shade just off the moving water of a stream is even cooler.

I have no idea how long the meat is god for.  Too many variables.
ChuckC

Yep, separate that neck from the rest as soon as possible.

Dave,

I totally agree with the previous posts that getting the hide off is the number 1 priority.  On the first trip out we usually carry a front with the bone in and as much strap and scrap as we can get in our daypacks (in game bags).  I use to tie the rest on a frame pack boned out or bone in, but I really prefer to just bone it all out and drop it right in the bag on a frame pack.  For me it is simpler, puts the weight low, and balances better.  If you are going to hang the quarters in the shade and it is pretty warm, you can partially separate the muscle groups to help with circulation.  I would still keep them in bags to keep the fly exposure to a minimum.

I have to agree.I think it is one of the most pertinent questions ever asked on here.Everyone wants to know how to kill an elk,what broadhead,what bow weight-on and on.

When you get a huge game animal on the ground,it is a big job and a big responsiblity.I don't mean to scare you,though.It can be done and probably quicker than you think.The advice above should get you there.

Last Fall,I put a moose on the ground just at dark and had to cut it up by myself,in the dark.It was a little awkward but I got it done in about 2-3 hours.There were no trees close enough to tie off to so I had to get a leg on my shoulder in order to get under it when severing.Once 2 quarters and the head were removed,I was able to roll it to the other side.The long legs gave me enough leverage to do that.

I will add one bit of caution,put safety at the forefront of your thoughts.You will be working with razor sharp knives,under awkward conditions and positions and you will be far from help.You may be in a hurry or stressed.Slow down and pay attention to what you are doing.At no time take a knife stroke in the direction of any body part.It is easy to forget.Especially not your opposite hand,wrist and your inner thighs.

Accidents happen and they can be fatal.Razor sharp knives are important and you want a sharpener too.Just don't use them on yourself.

I like a sturdy frame pack but it doesn't have to be.I keep the frame pack and heavy duty game bags at the truck.If you have some sort of pack with you hunting,that you could get one quarter in,pack that back to the truck and the next trip in,take frame pack etc..Plan on about 5 trips for 4 quarters and head.A saw that will let you cut the antlers loose from the rest of the head will be worth it's weight in gold.

I know some young,tough guys that can bone out an elk and 2 guys can get it out in one trip.Those loads are over 100 lbs each,in rough terrain and usually at high elevation.Not many can do that and you may not be used to the terrain and altitude.

Elk hunting is a physical deal,traveling the country and packing the meat out.Get in shape for it and pace yourself.Also check game regs.There may be rules about leaving proof of sex attached etc that may change how you cut an animal up and what you leave or take.

It is a very responsible hunter that studies this issue well ahead of the hunt.I'm impressed.Good luck and take a lot of pictures.

Dave,

Very good question.  Sure wish I would have asked the same thing before I learned a lesson the hard way on that very subject.  My buddy shot a bull about 4 in the afternoon in late August in CO. Being whitetail hunters from back east we assumed we should gut the elk and then hike back the 3 miles to the truck to line up horses for the next morning.  We even went as far as piling some limbs on the bull and some sweated up clothing to keep away bears until we returned.  When we got back to the trailhead to line up the horses we told the guy what we had done with the elk. He explained to us that an elk hide retains way more heat than a deer and that when we returned in the morning the elk would likely be spoiled.  Especially with all the stuff we piled on it as that would restrict air flow into the carcass.  So at 9pm we hiked back up the mountain to quarter and hang the bull.  Until we got back to the trailhead it was 3am.  

I now carry enough game bags and rope to finish the job on the spot.

Treat the game bags with citric acid. It works.

Joshua

Our bowhunt for elk starts in august and getting an elk cooled off is very important and most times is a hard battle to do so. There is some great advise above on getting them skinned and hung. There are alot of old ways of keeping your meat cool once quartered up. If you harvest your elk in the evening you have a big advantage because of the night time temps. Some nights are still too warm and extra care is needed. One thing I do if possible is soak the quarters in a creek to get the base temp down them hang in canvas bags to dry out. The canvas bags can be soak also in water and will work like a swamp cooler through evaperation. That works good during the day time,even a water bottle poured over the canvas can do wonders. If you have ever used the old canvas water bags it is amazing how cold the water can be in them on a 100 degree day,it will freeze your teeth. Hang the quarters at night once cooled then you can store the quarters during the day in old sleeping bags in the shade if it gets too warm. Most times once cooled and hung overnight they can be kept for a week if watched. Another thing to do if the day time temps are warming up is to dig a 4x4x4 pit with a blanket over the top and store the quarters during the day. It is best to let the quarter hang at night to air out and so it will not mold. The pit will keep ice in a cooler for a week no problem,great for base camps. If the night time temps stay down and the days are cool you will not need to use pit or sleeping bags. I have seen 90 degree nights when elk hunting and somtimes its a race to town for ice and a big cooler. I know a guy who uses a power inverter on his truck and take a freezer big enough for quarters. The old saying of the work begins after the kill really applys to elk for sure,it always a battle. Don't shoot one if you can't get it out and cooled off by yourself,you can easly get to far back in. Maybe even consider having a pack guide(or friends) on speed dail if you plan on being in real remote country. Once we killed three elk in two days in warm weather and my buddy that had just got back for boot camp thought he was going too die. They were only 3 miles in,so be prepared. Good luck and I hope this helps some.

Here is some very good information on taking care of elk and statistics.

http://ces.uwyo.edu/PUBS/B594R.pdf  

Make sure to read the section on how long it takes to cool out meat.  If I recall correctly, at 38 degrees in a cooler, it took the skinned round temperature 15 hours to drop to 50 degrees.

"Make sure the internal temperature of the lean is cooled to 40 degrees Fahrenheit or below within 24 hours. This will often require cooling facilities"

Maybe plan on how you will get them out! I have a few buddies of whom im goin to CO with this year that live for that backcountry hunting where they never see another boot track, much less another hunter! They go back so far that they ran into a guy with horses, and he bout fell off his horse when they told em they walked in! They like to plan on taking the route back to the truck that involves the most available water sources! They quarter their game, cover, hang in shade, return to camp to get packframes, return to meat, debone, and begin their trek out! When they reach a stream they cache the game bags in a light plastic covering and place in the water! The mountain stream water will delay any spoilage as it cools the meat well! The bags are very lightweight, and usually stay at camp until their needed! As far as flys go, lemon juice/water mix works, as does pepper, or you could try a new product thats out there that is a spray bottle type device that you add water to and spray meat with to deter flys! Its safe for the meat apparently, id probably just spray the outside of the game bags!!!

I agree with an earlier post.  I once let a 6 X 7 bull elk walk because I was on foot 8 miles in with no help.  I had him dead to rights and just let him go.  I shot a spike 400 yards from the truck when I was hiking back just before dark.  It was early season and the temp was close to 90.  No way would I have gotten more than one quarter out in good condition.  That is still one of the biggest bulls I have ever been close to and it hurt to let him go.  That spike sure ate good though.

Like everyone has said, the quarters of an elk will hold a lot of heat and it is important to get them cooled as quickly as possible. Immediately after the kill and the pictures have been taken the real work begins. I always carry a saw and a hatchet in my pack to be able to quarter the animal once I have cleaned it out. Upon the completion of quartering the animal, cut branches and and lay the quarters on the branches. This helps the air to circulate and begin the cooling process.

Another thing that we do is put the quarters in game bags and throw them in a creek that runs next to our camp. It has the same affect as putting your animal on ice. Some may wonder if it taints the meat, but we have had excellent results.

One more bit of advice upon the cleaning out of your animal. When bulls are rutting strong they urinate all over their stomach. The hide that is tainted is dark, almost black. Be sure to cut this hide away and toss it aside. That way you wont get it on your hands and taint the meat.

Best of luck, but be aware that elk are addicting!

And watch for the bears!  We have more problems with bears then heat!

Absolutely great advice here. One thing I would emphasize is dealing with the flies. On my first elk I boned it and placed in Alaska game bags. We took what we could carry but by the time we got back for the second load a few hpurs later the bags were covered with fly eggs.

I now carry white vinegar and a small spray bottle with me at all times. I think I am going to try soaking the bags in citric acid as someone suggested earlier - that sounds like it should work great. Whatever you do, plan ahead and have everything you need with you at all times. Be prepared to deal with a dead elk immediately without having to go back to the truck for what you need. Heat is one issue, and flies and/or bees are the other. Be prepared for both and you will enjoy some of the finest eating of any wild game!

QuoteOriginally posted by gehrke145:
And watch for the bears!  We have more problems with bears then heat!

Thanks for all the great info guys..... As far as the above mentioned... Is it legal to carry a firearm back up in archery season?

Dave,
Lots of good info here.  To summarize,

1)Don't shoot anything you can't carry back to the road in a reasonable amount of time.  Nights will be cooler, but you need to move quick.
2)Skin it!  The hide will hold heat really well (almost like it was designed to do that... :)  )
3) Have a plan to deal with the flies.  Around here I know folks that use pepper, pillowcases and a couple of other ways that were mentioned earlier.  
4) Hang it in the shade.  Air circulation is key!
5) Hunt with a big pack and walk out with your first load of meat.  I actually carry an internal frame pack that's big enough (barely) to get half a spike in (ask me how I know).  I practice shooting with it on.

A couple things that nobody mentioned (I think)...
--The easiest way to cool down the meat is to hunt in shorts and a tank top and I will personally guarantee the weather will do whatever you aren't prepared for.  Typically my wife and I get snowed on when we're out in September...and two hours later we're complaining about how wet and hot it is.

--Don't forget to fuel yourself.  I carry a little jerky, a few energy bars and some iodine tablets (to treat water) that I reserve for a successful hunt.  Nothing like a little celebration to keep you moving.  And you'll be moving for a long time, likely at elevations you're not used to.

--You might think about the boneless method.  Some folks like it better, especially since you get to leave the bones behind.  Do a search on here; someone posted a pretty good video a while back.

Above all have fun (and thanks for a great question).

Kirk

Here is a way to keep flies off the meat.
Spray the quarters with Pam the cooking spray.
The flies will still buzz around but they will not land on the meat.

John

huh, pam cooking spray! cool

They can be killed !!???!!!

Sorry: I digressed.

One thing a meat processor will NOT want is stones stuck to the meat. Pine needles are an issue too; although you can burn them and hair off: with a torch.

What I do is carry a couple fold up 'emergency blankets' Those foil things that once you unfold- you cannot fit into air plane hanger.

If you lay the blankets on the ground you can lay the quarters on them after you skin the elk; and keep them clean.

You can then get your game bag ready and put the meat into the bags and not lose any to stones and such ( pebbles - tiny stones - can break the blades on a meat grinder).

I hang the meat up to cool; but if I don't have game bags on me; I will hang it up and let the wind hit it. When the meat surface dries; the fly eggs can't into the soft meat they need to be in.
You can scrape the eggs off with a knife blade - until the meat surface hardens up.  

I see lots of people start out with a back pack with everything in it for every emergency.
Then after a few days of hiking in 90 degree heat; they are down to water and an energy bar at best.
(like me often times)

The emergency blankets are light and fit into a pocket real easy. They are fantastic to have with you; not only for if you get an elk; but if you need to stay out a night or do get into an emergency situation.

My son shot an elk that we got out whole; he got real close to 400 pounds of ~meat~ out of it. Now divide that by 2 guys; and its 200 pounds a person - plus the bones.

I am good for about one quarter of an elk; about 70 pounds on average. You are better off taking two trips each than: to try and carry all the meat out in one trip.

If your alone; skin the elk; and hang it up if you can - you will need parachute cord or you can make a small branch coming off a tree into a spike; and hang the meat up on that.

If you have moving water nearby- you can lay some thick branches just over the water; and lay the meat on the top of that- not piled up- laid out so it can cool top and bottom.
Then take some spruce boughs and lay them over the meat. That is best done when it does not touch the meat; but does keep the sun off it.
You can also use the blankets to cover them top and bottom over the water.

While your carrying out a load of meat; the remaining meat can cool. But be prepared to spend the night.
Walking out in the dark with a heavy load on your back is asking for trouble- use your judgment - how far is camp or the truck; and can you get there in the dark?

If your alone; and you realize your going to make 4 or 5 or 6 trips- you might want to bring some plastic bags and some Mortons salt meat cure. You can mix it up in the plastic bag with water and the meat; and it will preserve it for while; a short while; but 'a while'.
( I ran into a camp where the hunters had boned deer meat in plastic bags -in holes dug in the ground; and they were curing the meat while hunting for elk).

Really - don't think you can get an elk out with one or two people in one trip. I have seen it done- but your talking really the top of your game to do it. Here in Idaho you will be in deep do-do if you leave any meat in the woods: its called 'waste of game'.

I like to carry a bone type saw with me; and a small knife for skinning; and a file to sharpen the knife as your skinning and cutting.

In any weather you have to skin the elk quickly.

You can carry one quarter over your shoulder; and still get over downed timber and other obstacles; but the heavier the load; the better the trail must be.

As mentioned pepper can keep the flies off too- and burger joints give them away in more likely to carry containers  :)  

A young bull or cow is one thing to deal with; but that big bull or cow 'of your life' - that is another thing.

A couple coolers in your vehicle or camp is a great help; but unless you have ice; you are often better off letting the meat hang in the shade. Until final transport.

When you get an elk down and you walk up to it; you will realize the difference between the average whitetail and an elk. Elk are huge.

I have pack animals; that I have used dozens of times to help get other peoples elk out; but it seems when I get an elk; it is pretty close to a road. I have twice backed my truck right up to elk my son has shot.

But- then there were elk way back in- and getting them out can be the challenge of your life. Be prepared !

How many coolers will an average elk fill?  Just mean, no bones.

I got a 120 qt. cooler that stays in the truck with four blocks of ice at all times when hunting elk. Then when I make it to the truck I don't have to worry about where to put the meat. It will hold a whole elk if boned out. I never hang an elk. Maybe after it is in bags but never the carcass. They are large and you would need a block and tackle to get it up. I skin one side and then bone it. Then roll it over and do the other side. You can get almost all the meat off before you even gut it. I gut it to get the meat along the backbone on the inside. It's the most tender part. I have carried out elk in two trips up to two miles. It's pretty hard on your body and probably not a good idea. I just put plastic garbage bags in my pack and fill it with meat. But I have it on ice within a couple hours. It has always been good. I also end up with very clean meat. No sticks or dirt. Gary

If I had to leave meat more than a few hours I would definitely use canvas game bags and hang the meat after cutting up. Have a tent maker make some bags for you out of canvas. I once bought some heavy bags that looked strong and when I went to pick them up full of meat the tops all ripped off. Most of the ones I have killed lately were in the evening. I have been able to get them out by the next morning with the use of headlamps and lots of batteries. I haven't been going in as far as I used to. I also carry two very sharp well made knives. I don't want to have to stop to sharpen part way through the job. My favorite is a Helle knife. It will do two elk before it starts losing the edge. Gary

Gary,
 How long does that ice last in the cooler?  Bill

The faster you break down an animal the better! The fastest way i know of is The Gutless Method! For sanity sake i wont describe it here! There is a very good 2 part clip on  www.bowsite.com (http://www.bowsite.com!)  I know its a flim flam website, but the video by ELK Inc is a good one! Just go to the website and do a search for "Gutless Video"!

Sage, I carry one of the Alaska Bowhunter carbide sharpeners.  A couple swipes and I am back in business.  

Also.  Try this if you wish.

They make a replaceable blade razor cutter, everybody has them.  A glorified box cutter.  There are two sizes of hook-shaped cutters available, to be used for shingles and maybe light carpet.  

The smaller of the two is the one I use.  I found a very lightweight handle and use this tool to cut the pelt and to skin the critter, instead of a knife.  I think I can guarantee you will find it two or three times quicker and easier than any knife I have seen.  It is like a zipper.  If you insert the point into the skin anywhere and pull it towards you, you will unzip the hide.  Legs, back, prepping for caping,  all of the above.  

I use it exclusively now for the entire cape and pelt removal.

I used to carry just the blade, wrapped in tape.  It works, but is hard on the hands.  The new lightweight handle is awesome and doesn't weigh much at all.

I also carry two smaller knives that are very sharp, and that carbide sharpener.  good to go

ChuckC

I have used a spray bottle with vinegar to lightly spray the meat down as you cutting up your animal. It is a disinfectant and it helps keep the bugs off.

Anyone bring an elk home on an airplane?  How'd you manage that??

Bill, how long the ice lasts depends on the temperature outside. I've seen it hot enough where I had to buy more every four days. Gary

Chuck, the zipper idea is a good one. Kinda like a hook letter opener. I buy utility knife blades by the hundred. I need to find one of those that they will fit in. Gary

First off guys, check my earlier post about The Gutless Method!!! It keeps the meat as clean as possible, and no field dressing is required! I would recommend making arrangements in advance in your chosen hunting area with a butcher! For a small fee he will put your meat in a refrigerated enclosure and hold it for you! Spoilage of meat, as long as it remains bug free, takes a while! In 40deg weather it takes an elk a long time to become unfit to eat(3-5 days)! in weather thats warmer, like 60deg+ it gets accelerated greatly, but not so fast that you couldnt get it out in time! Hang quarters in the shade, flyproof the game bags, return to camp to get pack frames, go back to site, the quarters begin to break down naturally in that time frame to where the muscle groups just pull of the bones, no need for a knife almost! Get your load cached and get the heck outta there! Ive had steaks off an elk that was shot in fairly hot weather, but the precautions that hunter took to get the meat out made for some of the best wild game ive ever had! Think of the time the quarters are hanging, and the time it takes to pack it out as an accelerated aging process, cause thats really all it is!!!

We use the gutless method in th camp I've hunted in. Its the way to go. Of course when you're all done stripping the quarters etc from teh carcass, you can then open it up to retrieve those tenderloins. But by using the gutless method, you're not having to slip around in pools of blood and guts while you cut your animal up.

The only elk we gutted was one we drove the truck right up to, dressed it out and 5 of us dragged it into the truck, hauled it to camp and hung it on the ellk pole with a tractor and chain to skin and butcher. Long night.

I've packed quarters ot several times, and if hunting solo, I can say that unless you're in the shape of an NFL running back, one person is not gonna make 4-5 trips inand out with 60-80# of meat on your back in one night and day. It will flat kick your hind end, and your legs will be rubber.

The rule in our camp was all hands turn out to pack an elk out. Most are killed in the evening, so when everyone strolls into camp, regardless how tired or hungry, everyone grabs a pack frame and heads for the kill site. This usually consists of 4-6 guys. Then its one trip, we eat good and the elk is taken care of.

Solo hunting or pairs obviously takes different planning. Lots of good info on this thread.

Sagebrush  I wish I could patent it.  I think it is that much easier than using a knife.  Also, it keeps your knives sharp for meat, not skin and hair.
ChuckC