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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: wapous on March 28, 2010, 11:25:00 PM

Title: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: wapous on March 28, 2010, 11:25:00 PM
Heavy inserts or heavy points? The points are cheaper. So why expensive brass heavy inserts?
Thanks
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Mooseandbuck44 on March 28, 2010, 11:43:00 PM
I'm sorry wapous, I don't have an answer to your question, but I am also curious about another aspect of what you asked instead of just the cost of inserts and points (I hope this is considered to be the same topic).  

Does using heavier inserts, like the screw-in type on the back of the insert, affect the spine differently versus just using heavier points?  Seems to me using the screw-ins you are adding weight further and further back from the tip.  

Thanks.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: JimB on March 28, 2010, 11:44:00 PM
That depends which point you are talking about.Sometimes the heavy point isn't enough and heavy inserts are used in addition.Also,brass inserts are stronger than aluminum ones,if strength is an issue.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Soilarch on March 28, 2010, 11:46:00 PM
I assume everyone has their own reasons.

I use the inserts so I can still use 125gr. points and broadheads.  (the 150gr bh aren't too much of a difference either)

For me, it's cheaper to buy the inserts than to restock all of my broadheads and buy new points...besides, I have enough trouble keeping all the different point weights I have separated as it is.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Bowferd on March 28, 2010, 11:51:00 PM
Both. The insert especially if long enough stiffens and toughens the foreshaft where you will normally have breaks in the shaft.
Also increases front end wt which gives you higher FOC % and better penetration.
I normally shoot wood and bamboo.
I have had far less destruction to both by inserting added weight into the shaft at a depth of 2-3" before installing points.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: HATCHCHASER on March 28, 2010, 11:54:00 PM
You are correct moose.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Bill Kissner on March 28, 2010, 11:59:00 PM
I buy the long brass inserts because I have trouble with getting heavy enough shafts for the heavy points. By using the 100 grain inserts, they have the same effect as shortening the shaft the amount it is longer than a standard insert. My arrows will not fly with 250 grain points but will fly great with 100 grain inserts and 150 grain points. Hope this makes sense.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on March 29, 2010, 12:38:00 AM
It is half a dozen of one and six of another if you looking for a set weight up front.  They make the front of the shaft tougher, allow you to shoot lighter heads, etc...
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Michael Arnette on March 29, 2010, 01:18:00 AM
I use them both.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Earthdog on March 29, 2010, 03:54:00 AM
Because I want to shoot the same Bear Razorheads I've shot for the last 40 years,,,on all my arrows.

OK ?
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: SveinD on March 29, 2010, 04:46:00 AM
I always reckoned it was because It's easier to match broadheads, fieldpoints and blunts at lower weights.. Never seen a 225gn fieldpoint..?
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: LongStick64 on March 29, 2010, 05:34:00 AM
Why not both ?
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Rob DiStefano on March 29, 2010, 06:17:00 AM
it's cheaper to use alum inserts and bulk up on the point and adapter weights.  just depends on how heavy ya wanna go.  

with a typical 125gr broadhead, and a 125gr steel adapter, and a 25gr alum insert, thats a hefty 275gr up front.  replace the alum adapter for 100gr brass and now the front end is loaded to 350 grains.  just depends on what broadhead weight yer using ...
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: BigJim on March 29, 2010, 06:41:00 AM
SveinD- They now make fieldpoints in just about everything up to 300g.
We stock them in 100,125,145,175,200,225,250, and 300! wow what a lot of bagging!!!

All those weights and a small variety of insert choices just increase ones options.

BigJim
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: tawmio on March 29, 2010, 10:02:00 AM
i agree with Soilarch iserts might be alittle more but one can buy standard broadheads and fieldpoints. I use 100g inserts with my MFX realtree arrows.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Chris Shelton on March 29, 2010, 10:04:00 AM
I use heavy inserts because there is a bigger variety of 100 grain broadheads!
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: wapous on March 29, 2010, 10:06:00 AM
Thank you to all. Good answer, as usual.
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Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Rob DiStefano on March 29, 2010, 10:20:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Shelton:
... there is a bigger variety of 100 grain broadheads!
um, nope, don't think so - the larger variety is 125gr.

with a glue on point, and a myriad of adapter weights from 30-125gr, there's a lotta tweakin' can be done with just an alum insert.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: KentuckyTJ on March 29, 2010, 10:44:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by wapous:
Heavy inserts or heavy points? The points are cheaper. So why expensive brass heavy inserts?
Thanks
I personally spend the extra on the brass inserts because my bows all all around 50 pounds and that way I can use a thinner profile 100 grain broadhead which I truly believe gives me better penetration from less drag. If I shot 60 lbs or more I wouldn't spend the extra money on the brass.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: jrchambers on March 29, 2010, 12:18:00 PM
I kinda was wondering wich setup would be overall tougher, a 275 total with 100 brass and 175 bh or a 250 head with aluminum insert,  

for me to use my favorite bh in 175 i have to put in a aluminum adapter. but if i took out the brass i could use the same broadhead with a 100 grain steel adapter.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: EzArcher on March 29, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
an advantage of the inserts is you can use smaller field points that are less likely to stay stuck in 3d targets
i have lost several points and inserts in 3d targets using 250 grain fieldpoints

i think if i use smaller heads and the brass inserts that would minimize the problem
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: JC on March 29, 2010, 12:44:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by EzArcher:
an advantage of the inserts is you can use smaller field points that are less likely to stay stuck in 3d targets
i have lost several points and inserts in 3d targets using 250 grain fieldpoints

i think if i use smaller heads and the brass inserts that would minimize the problem
Sounds like you may be using the wrong glue.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: JimB on March 29, 2010, 01:24:00 PM
"I kinda was wondering wich setup would be overall tougher, a 275 total with 100 brass and 175 bh or a 250 head with aluminum insert,"

JR,I'm told that an aluminum adapter is more likely to fail than an aluminum insert and that if you had to choose between the two,aluminum insert and steel adapter,is stronger.Kind of makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Rob DiStefano on March 29, 2010, 02:04:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by EzArcher:
an advantage of the inserts is you can use smaller field points that are less likely to stay stuck in 3d targets
i have lost several points and inserts in 3d targets using 250 grain fieldpoints

i think if i use smaller heads and the brass inserts that would minimize the problem
inserts and adapters should be glued in with slow set epoxy.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: KentuckyWolf on March 29, 2010, 06:11:00 PM
I use 100gr brass inserts and 125gr points. Reasons: I have more options on broadheads, I can use an insert or adapter (both 100gr brass), judo points don't come in other weights, I can use my lifetime accumulated supply of broadheads that include razorheads, Magnus, Snuffers, Stingers, Zwickey, etc. (which seems to get larger much faster than it is ever depleted); and perhaps most important...my arrows fly great with them (100+125).
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Bowspirit on March 29, 2010, 06:18:00 PM
I prefer to use the heavy heads. The way I see it, a heavier head (of a certain model) is gonna be bigger and more built up, making it more durable. Not always true, just my 2 cents...
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on March 29, 2010, 07:41:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Shelton:
... there is a bigger variety of 100 grain broadheads!
um, nope, don't think so - the larger variety is 125gr.

[/b]
If I'm not mistaken, Chris was refering to screw-in heads -- Muzzys, Thunderheads and such -- since that's what he uses. With that type of head, 100 grains is pretty much the standard anymore.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on March 29, 2010, 07:42:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowspirit:
I prefer to use the heavy heads. The way I see it, a heavier head (of a certain model) is gonna be bigger and more built up, making it more durable. Not always true, just my 2 cents...
That's my take on it as well. I'd rather have the extra material in the head than just dead weight in the shaft.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Michael Golden on March 29, 2010, 08:04:00 PM
I use then both because I don't like that huge field point hanging out the front of my arrow.....
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Jerry Jeffer on March 30, 2010, 09:10:00 AM
I use both. Problem solved.    :)
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: HATCHCHASER on March 30, 2010, 09:23:00 AM
I have found that the heavy points tune differently than a brass insert and point.  If I use a 250 grain head then,I need a stiffer spine than if I use a 100 grain insert and a 150 grain head.  This is really noticeable on mfx and axis shafts because the insert is farther back.  It is a leverage thing.  Shoot what flys the best.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: JC on March 30, 2010, 10:46:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by HATCHCHASER:
I have found that the heavy points tune differently than a brass insert and point.  If I use a 250 grain head then,I need a stiffer spine than if I use a 100 grain insert and a 150 grain head.  This is really noticeable on mfx and axis shafts because the insert is farther back.  It is a leverage thing.  Shoot what flys the best.   :thumbsup:  
Good advice Wally, you are exactly right.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on March 30, 2010, 11:17:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by wapous:
Heavy inserts or heavy points? The points are cheaper. So why expensive brass heavy inserts?
Thanks
Because there are a wider choice of both broadheads and other points in lighter weights.
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: hefty hunter on March 30, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
i like to keep my big bd deltas up front and add weight by the insert. tackle bow was starting to overflow with all the different field points
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: DesertDude on March 30, 2010, 02:11:00 PM
So many "Options" ........ Use what best fits Your needs.......
Title: Re: Heavy inserts or heavy points?
Post by: jrchambers on March 30, 2010, 03:05:00 PM
just tried my setup two ways 100 grain brass with a 175 field point,  and a aluminum 25grain insert with a 250 broadhead, both shot the same.