Terry's topic of Animal Shot Placements has some excellent pictures. However, in looking at the picture I got a few weeks ago of a rut worn buck to me the shoulder blade appears to be placed somewhat differently.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt296/normanparks/afterseaso096-1.jpg)differently.
Any thoughts
IMHO it's a reference point. And all deer can vary from size or muscle mass (as with many animals)and not to leave out birth defects or the animal could have been hit by a car(or another injury) at a young age and it healed in off position.I can't see the pic from my work computer so I'm going buy what you wrote.
Nothing different there but the wrong shot angle. DON'T SHOOT until he opens up a little then drill him!
QuoteOriginally posted by bama:
to me the shoulder blade appears to be placed somewhat differently.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt296/normanparks/afterseaso096-1.jpg)differently.
Any thoughts
Where do you think it is????
What Biggie said, let him take a step to open up and let her rip!!!
Please... follow thru with Guru's question. Let's make this a classroom for all of us.
ChuckC
Ok. First, I am not a novice. Killed my first recurve deer in 1979. If you examine the first few skeleton pictures on Terry's Animal Placement Shots it would appear that if you shot the deer straight up from the leg there would be nothing but vitals and that the shoulder bone would be higher and to the right. It has been my experience and also appears on the picture I posted that you are generally better off shooting further back on a standing broadside shot. Letting him take a step would work but my point is that if you shot where the skeleton picture indicated you would probably nail the shoulder blade. Next year I plan to dissect one and take a look.
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Nothing different there but the wrong shot angle.
He's not broadside...he's quartering toward and "curled" in the pic. That's why it appears that an arrow further back would be best to get behind the shoulder structure.
But an arrow behind the shoulder at this angle has very, very little margin for error and will more than likely put your arrow behind the "good stuff".
That's what I see anyway...
i wouldnt take that shot put if forced i would shoot for that little light colored triangle stright up from his leg put it there and all is good in imo
Guru, you might be right that he is quartering slightly to the hunter. Shows how 2D pictures can be a little misleading. But it still looks to me like the shoulder blade is positioned substantially different than the skeleton picture in the post.
Whether or not I took the shot in the picture would depend on how far away the buck was. At 10 or 12 yards I would not hesitate.
Courtesy of the Wisconsin DNR
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/BiteMyButtski/100_0360.jpg)
ChuckC
By the way, this is the extent of the rib cage. This is a 1.5 year old Wisconsin buck, pretty big body size.
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/BiteMyButtski/100_0436.jpg)
ChuckC
If they are like a horse..there scapula will move back a bit when they move their front legs forward.
I think the bulge your seeing in the pic is the muscle.....he is turned towards the person taking the pic for sure, but if you could hit that tuft of hair behind the front leg just above the rough hair there..he's a goner.
Again i would want a close shot to do that and I would wait until he wasn't looking my way....that being said if he turned his head you would probably see that spot open up more.
If I can I like ANY ANIMAL to be quartering away so I can get that arrow tucked in there and heading forward.
I shot a 19-10/16's blackbear with a 45# target bow a fella lent me when I was in between bows at 43 paces. He was quartering away and it went in the third to last rib and came out his shoulder socket about 12"
He turned and bit off the arrow and ran right at me (he didn't know I was there and I was behind a little clump of tiny immature willows".
He went around 30 yards total and died on the run.
Scared the crap out of me when he started my way,but the arrow had done the damage by then.
jer bear
That animal is turned slightly in and his legs are pretty much square,that will lift the shoulder blade.
If he straightens up and steps forward with the near side leg,the shoudler blade will actualy drop,,,it won't lift until the far side leg goes forward and begins to cross the near side.
Similar things happen if he lifts or drops his head,,,,drops it to graze and the SB goes up,lifts it high and the shoulder blade goes down.
The range of movement is not a lot,and the area of the shoulder blade we're talking about is not going to slow down a good arrow much.On any deer my own choice will always be to shoot for just above the elbow,I just don't worry about the shoulder blade because IMHO you have to hit it pretty high for it to become a problem.
QuoteOriginally posted by bowmaster12:
i wouldnt take that shot put if forced i would shoot for that little light colored triangle stright up from his leg put it there and all is good in imo
I don't understand the part about "being forced to" take the shot? Can you explain for me?
Exellent picture of the real picture of the skeleton. Pretty well confirms Terry's skeletel picture. Very interesting.
I would like to recommend Deer and Deer Hunting's "Vital Information" It is a CD-rom that will put to rest a lot of myths out there about shot placement. It is very informative
I agree that the shot I want is not in that picture.Sure I could kill that deer but it is not the shot to do it with.Glad I don't have anyone making me take shots I don't want. ;)
If he is that close I can wait for one or two more steps to get in a good postion for a shot.I can also let him walk away if he don't give me what I want.No biggie and it happens if you bowhunt.I prefer to kill them on my terms,not just kill them. jmo
the "shoulder blade" is actually up high on a broadside deer... if you're in the shoulder blade you're too high and too far forward. The shoulder joint (or whatever you want to call it... where the shoulder blade meets the upper leg bone) is awfully tough to get through too. Lots of muscle directly above the leg behind this joint, but a tuned and sharp arrow should go through that no problem. If you want only a few ribs between your arrow and the good stuff, then back behind the leg is good, but then you're looking at a lung shot only, as the heart is tucked up closer to the front.
Contrary to what is being tauted by some as of late, the shot and vitals of a whitetail are BEHIND the shoulder area on the chest cavity....not 'under the shoulder' area.
If the perfect center of the vitals were shot with an arrow, the ENTIRE front leg/shoulder could be removed with the arrow still in the center of the vitals.
There is NO reason, I repeat NO reason to AIM at the shoulder no matter what you read or hear.
When an animal is "curled" like the one in the picture, not only does big bone block the preferred entrance, but the hide will move when he straightens out and the hole(s) in the hide will not match with the hole(s) in the body cavity...no blood on the ground.
Put an arrow right above the elbow in the triangulated muscle in your pic- dead deer!
come straight up tight behind the front leg and then drag him to the truck.
I stay as close to the front leg as possible. I prefer quartering away. The vitals of deer are more forward than many believe. I have close to 200 deer and always examine where I hit them and what I actually hit. On a broadside deer I would not want to hit more than just a few inches behind the crease, the closer to it the better.
I took this deer this season with a Snuffer. This deers vitals seemed to be a bit farther forward than even i expected, (possibly because he was so full of acorns that his diaphram was pushed forward?) But it shows why "textbook shots" are sometimes not recovered. All I hit was guts the liver and 1 lung. The deer didn't go far and left a huge bloodtrail but was still alive hours later
The entrance
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g167/skipmaster1/IMG_1332.jpg
The exit
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g167/skipmaster1/IMG_1326.jpg
The liver
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g167/skipmaster1/IMG_1336.jpg
The lung
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g167/skipmaster1/IMG_1337.jpg