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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: shaneroe on March 20, 2010, 02:22:00 PM

Title: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: shaneroe on March 20, 2010, 02:22:00 PM
I always get confused on this.  My arrows are a touch stiff, not bad though.  Is it better to try and go up or down with my brace height?  Thanks.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: reddogge on March 20, 2010, 03:30:00 PM
I would think a lower height would give you a longer power stroke.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Earthdog on March 20, 2010, 04:56:00 PM
Reddogge is right.
You could also use a softer or more giving strike plate if that's possible.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: bshunter on March 20, 2010, 10:18:00 PM
actually you need to raise your brace height, it is complicated and seems to go against logic, but that is what the Easton guide says. Give it 4 twists and see what happens.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Old York on March 21, 2010, 10:41:00 AM
Easton has a very good discussion of it in their
tuning guide. You could note your current brace height,
make a substantial change to it in either direction, and
see for yourself what your results are. Being close in spine
but a tad stiff, you should see some cause & effect
when changing your brace height.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Smallwood on March 21, 2010, 02:03:00 PM
if you want to weaken your shafts, then you need to raise your brace height.
or add more point weight to weaken the shaft.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: ranger 3 on March 21, 2010, 03:57:00 PM
Smallwood is right on the money
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Shooty1 on March 21, 2010, 11:49:00 PM
Raise it.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Earthdog on March 22, 2010, 03:39:00 AM
Are you guys absolutely sure Easton was describing the power stroke of a stringbow,and not a compound ?.
Because to my understanding their not both the same,and a stringbow loses power as the string drops,while the compound increases power due to the cam action.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: ronp on March 22, 2010, 04:30:00 AM
In my Black Widow tuning DVD it says to increase your brace height if the shaft is a little stiff (with a Black Widow recurve).  Conversly, lower the brace height if the shaft is a little weak.  Like Old York said, try it both ways and see what your results are.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: xtrema312 on March 22, 2010, 07:01:00 AM
Raise it.  It will add draw weight and put more initial thrust into the arrow.  It is not how long it pushes, but how hard.  Seems to work for me.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: BenBow on March 22, 2010, 09:35:00 AM
Actually it's the angle of the arrow to the arrow plate. Raising the brace height is like moving the arrow plate in which requires a stiffer arrow and has a much greater effect than the small amount of power stroke or weight difference. Check Stu's calculator to see how much difference 1/16" makes in effective bow weight.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Old York on March 22, 2010, 10:48:00 AM
Earthdog, if you  read  Easton's tuning guide you will find the answer to your recurve vs. compound conundrum.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Orion on March 22, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
Benbow's got it.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Dale in Pa on March 22, 2010, 12:53:00 PM
Benbow's right. Viper does a great job of explaining it in his book, also has illustrations that help explain it.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Bjorn on March 22, 2010, 03:32:00 PM
Lowering the brace increases string time and adds a very small amount of power and guess what? Works for me anyway.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on March 22, 2010, 11:05:00 PM
Wow,  there seems to be a lot of confusion here on what is the proper step for this process.  

If you want to make a stiff arrow act weaker with your brace height you want to lower the brace height.  I have repeatedly proven this with multiple arrow set ups and tuning processes.

Lowering the brace height increases the length of string travel. This increases the time of energy release impulse on the power stroke.  That means more energy is imparted to the arrow making it weaker.  I am not sure why Easton is saying otherwise, but for longbows they are dead wrong.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Encino Man on March 23, 2010, 01:07:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Ragnarok Forge:
Wow,  there seems to be a lot of confusion here on what is the proper step for this process.  

If you want to make a stiff arrow act weaker with your brace height you want to lower the brace height.  I have repeatedly proven this with multiple arrow set ups and tuning processes.

Lowering the brace height increases the length of string travel. This increases the time of energy release impulse on the power stroke.  That means more energy is imparted to the arrow making it weaker.  I am not sure why Easton is saying otherwise, but for longbows they are dead wrong.
Ditto. That's what I've always been taught.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Shooty1 on March 23, 2010, 09:46:00 AM
The great schism continues.

When you lower brace height, you change the geometry of the shot in such a way that it makes it more difficult for the arrow to get around the riser, thus making it act stiffer. Yes, the lower bh arrow has more energy imparted to it, but not before the arrow actually clears the riser. The taller bh gets the arrow to arc around the riser, though the power stroke is cut short.  

There are experts and amateurs on both sides of this, and both sides observe what they expect.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on March 23, 2010, 11:14:00 AM
Hmmm, interesting observation.  I would have to see two arrows fired in slow motion at differing brace heights to see the difference. Not saying your wrong. 1/2 to 3/4 inch of extra brace height is not going to change how the arrow flexes around the riser very much.  

All the energy released into an arrow is released prior to it clearing the riser.  The energy stroke starts at string release and stops at nock release from the string.  All of which occur before the arrow clears the riser.  Perhaps I am not understanding what you meant.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: tukudu on March 23, 2010, 11:49:00 AM
Another way to look at it is that you are preloading the limbs by increasing the brace height.
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Old York on March 23, 2010, 12:09:00 PM
I'm not surprised to see some archers have an "opposite" result...I had one finicky recurve that was "opposite", don't know why but it was.

Now I just set BH to the quietest spot and adjust otherwise by changing spine or degree of centre-shot.

When reading through Easton's tuning guide and their BH tuning discussion, I do wonder at what distances they're refering to. I sense they're refering to say 90 meters and target recurve bows(?)
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Bjorn on March 23, 2010, 04:11:00 PM
Easton has not made a wood arrow in 70 years, it is no wonder the charts don't mean a lot for woodies.
The geometry thing that Shooty brings up is true, but only for that instant at the very end of the string time.
For my shooting dropping to a low brace is at most 1/4 inch, and that is enough to make a slightly 'stiff' arrow 'right on'. For me, it will amount to about 4" of correction in 25 yards.
So I am firmly in the lower brace weakens arrow camp. I wish Rod would chime in here!
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: Bowmania on March 23, 2010, 07:09:00 PM
Here's how I look at it (and remember).  If you had an arrow nocked and look at it with the string in the center of the limbs, you'd see the arrow off to the left (righty) somewhere.  If the string wasn't there and you moved the arrow  towards the bow in the same plane the tip would move further to the left.  Move it back or towards you in the same plane the tip would move to the right.

This says the same thing as BenBow in a much more complicated manner.

Bowmania
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: PastorSteveHill on March 23, 2010, 08:28:00 PM
So...  For a really confused guy..

Does raising mean going from a 6' Brace Height to an 8' Brace Height

Or Does Raising mean going from an 8' Brace to a 6'??  

In other words, is raising a brace mean...  Going up the ladder as in   7,6,5,4,3,2,1

or does rasing it mean going in chronological order from least to greatest as in  1,2,3,4,5,6,7 etc...

Now I've confused myself... hahah..
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: frank bullitt on March 23, 2010, 09:31:00 PM
Here's a thought, try both, lowering, and raising and see what works! No harm either way!

What size fletch are you shooing?
Title: Re: arrows a touch stiff, do I want a higher brace height?
Post by: SHOOTO8S on March 23, 2010, 10:44:00 PM
Both lowering brace height and raising brace height can correct right and left arrow impact.....now let me try to explain how.

With a finger release, even the best release will have a left to right oscillation( right hand shooter)and whether the arrow is pointed to the right or left at the moment the nock releases from the string, determines whether the brace needs to raised or lowered to change impact on the target....really doesn't change the spine of the arrow, only which way it pointed.

Both the increased draw weight from raising brace..and the increased power stroke from lowering brace effect dynamic arrow spine...but right and left impact is controlled by both dynamic spine and at which point the arrow nock release during the S-path the string travels.