I have recently designed several broadhead with this general style. I'm thinking about making some and possibly selling in the future. All widths are from 1 1/2"-2" and all blades fit on the same ferrule. The plan is that all blade will be the same thickness (.06"-.07"), that way they are interchangeable. I'm shooting for a blade hardness of 50+ Rockwell. Hopefully weights will be from 145 gr-175 gr, depending on width. But that will be determined once I can make them. Sorry about the bad pic, can't remember how to export from AutoCAD.
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/ryanalstat/P3190039.jpg)
Maybe a little longer,but it looks good
I personally don't care for it. I like broadheads long and lean over short and fat. JMHO.
I like the concept but agree with the above. Wouldn't be interested unless it came closer to the 3-1 length-width ratio.
Looks like a WIDE silver flame....the exclusive run.
I'd shoot them all day at Deer and Black Bear, and Javies....matter of fact, I killed a black bear in October last season with the wide silver flame, and it made a VERY impressive hole.
Too wide too fast for really big game and big boar hogs though IMO.
Could this head fall into the "barbed" category?
A problem you begin to run into with short wide broadhead design is that if you take any other than a broadside shot (90 degree impact), you start running the risk of skipping that thing along the animals body cause the edge and not the point hits it. If it actually goes in, great. . maybe. Otherwise it could just cause a heck of a "flesh wound".
Don't know if I made that clear.
ChuckC
I like it.
The only issue I see is the profile on the back of the broadhead. In Wisconsin our laws prohibit the use of barbed broadheads. That profile would fall under that category. I'm not sure what other states have for rules concerning that but if you're going to market them a different profile would allow more people to use them.
Same in Jersey
I wanted to keep it semi short because I feel the shorter than normal aluminum ferrule is stronger than a long one. That's why I pushed blade back so the ferrule is stronger. It's the same type of concept that you can hold up more weight with your arm bent closer to your chest that if your arm is straight out. I like the width and design of the German Kinetic heads but don't like how long and expensive they are, if the ferrule is shorter it would be stronger. In theory anyway.
Anybody know how they define "barbed"?
How about this one. Still barbed?
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo297/ryanalstat/P3190040.jpg)
I would say that it is still barbed.
I don't know what each state's game laws would consider barbed/not-barbed, but to me if the angle where the blades meets the ferral is less than 90 degrees it's barbed. So I wouldn't use it just to make sure I'm legal.
Barbed is usually anything that is less than 90 degrees from ferrel across bottom edge of blade. Has to be a right angle or wider. Sorry in New York both those are barbed and illegal.
Now you've got my attention. But I like 3 blades or bleeders on two blades, But I like the the width ALOT.
Yeah, that also would be considered barbed here in Ill. (2nd profile). It's seem your after a modern/medieval profile....something different than whats out there....Personally, I prefer a 3 to 1 ratio....but...if you come up with a Deadhead type...ya just might have a pretty good market for 'em.
You need to do away with the barbs....jmo...Good Luck!
In Penna. anything less than 90degrees is considered barbed. I personally like the 3to 1 ratio type heads.
Yes, barbed, illegal in Wyoming also.
Thanks for the info everyone. I'll go back to the drawing board.
Anyone like the idea of interchangeable blades that can change the weight depending on the width?
Same in Oregon,that could be a concearn if you really want to sell them.
Strong, two edge heads in variable weights...very desireable.
The same ferrule, accepting different, replaceable blades, very desireable.
The diffuculty is going to be making them affordable.
Keep at it.
A tip of the hat to you.
oops double post about Oregon. didn't see the first one.
Very cool design! I like the wide cut and interchangable blades. If you take the barbed design away from the back I think you'd have a real winner. Maybe offer a 4blade option similar to the slick trick razor trick in a 175gr. to 200gr.
too short .....
The second one looks a little better to me but I'd still prefer a longer one. One other thing is with the shaft actually going up and into the head folks with shafts cut real close to the riser might not be able to get to full draw since they'd be giving up what looks like 1/2" or so.
shortstroke
On the second drawing the shaft is 3/8" past the end of the blades. I did that in order to make the ferrule shorter and stronger. Basically all of the trad guys I know have at least 1" of shaft beyond their riser at full draw.
I'll work on a few more designs and hopefully get them posted in the next few days.
I like the second design quite a bit, although to eliminate the problem with the "barbed" rear you could could always do what was done on the Simmons Land Shark broadhead where the blade extends backwards parallel and adjacent to the shaft. That would let you sweep the back edges of the blade slightly forward or at a 90 degree angle. Here is a link to a picture of a Land Shark for comparison. http://www.huntinfo.com/product/simmonssharks.php
I know there is the criticism that the effective length of the shaft is decreased, but that is easily solved by using slightly longer shafts, which is generally a good thing anyway because longer shafts tend to be more forgiving. Obviously, the folks who use Land Sharks don't have a problem with that.
Keep up the good work on your designs. I think you are onto something with pushing the ferrule forward for strength. It will be a tough road ahead of you to ever get a broadhead into production, but don't let hard work ever keep you from doing something that is worthwhile.
Allan
Illinois removed the non-barbed language from the code a few years back. Had to do with the Tecan mech head.
Jarhead, I prefer a longer edge and won't shoot much steeper than a Zwickey Delta. It takes a good deal more force to push a steep edge thru tissue compared to slicing. The Ashby tests pretty much bear this out. In my limited experience, generous blood trails are much more the result of shot placement, edge sharpness and luck than width or number of blades.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
Looks like a WIDE silver flame....the exclusive run.
That was my first thought, except for the length.
If you are making blades that are interchangable why not make some that are closer to 3:1 for those that prefer them?
Why not make the ferrule out of steel? I like the wide two blades, but prefer more length as well. The interchangeable blade idea is a good one.
..hand make a few and see what works !
I think Wisconsin removed the "non-barbed" terminology from the laws also. Lamont
Maybe take trailing edge of head straight across and have it extent with a groove down over shaft with a slight gap for different shaft sizes...just a crazy thought.That would keep ferrel short and heavy duty!
Never seen one taken down over shaft ..but it might work good.
A friend of mines brother is buying a broadhead company. I have had thoughts of getting together with members to design a head and submit it to him. The company sale has yet to go through just yet though.
looks like a great turkey head
Barbed in Washington and thus illegal here.
Kinda looks like this Broadhead, They were called "Super II" 1 1/2 wide.
(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/desertdude48/DSCN0450.jpg)
Bad mechanical advantage,worse shape for quartering shots and not legal in most states.
Might be good for turkeys.
well i think that there is alot of insight for your head here but i thinkh if you make the ferall outa steel you could flutte it like they do on gun baralls to help with the weight also
I concur with Bill, but I also like your original concept of width for thin-skinned game. Take away the barbs and you'll really be on to something. Keep up the good work man. It's a very cool plan!
Make it longer and with a steel ferrule, keep up the good work
First thing, why reinvent the wheel.
Take a look at the broadhead designs that have been doing the job for the last 30 to 40 years.
Proven performers.....not many short fat wide ones that have stood the test of time.
My idea of the perfect head is a 3:1 design, and Howard Hills book, Hunting the hard way, has a chapter about broadhead design, and why.
Also, I would read through Ed Ashbys work, about broadhead performance tests. and fast track your self to designs that work, and why it is so.
Your ferrule is the easy part, any good repetition engineering shop can churn them out by the thousands, it just takes money.
If your serious about making broadheads, the hardest part is bevel grinding the blades.
You need to consider being able to do at least 2000 blades per week. Unless you have some very good machinery, this is a job where the novelty wears off real quick.
A straight edge is easier to grind than a curved one..........
I also dont like ferrule designs with pins or screws fixing the blade, as the hole through the ferrule can create a weak point.
If you must use a screw or pin to affix the blades to the ferrule, try to design it into the ferrule towards the back where the ferrule is wider.
Also the blade designs, that are similar to the Bear heads, (not the old green glue ons) but the blue ones with the alloy ferrule, that have a fixing point at the front of the ferrule and then a big vent that sweeps around to meet the ferrule at the back, are not good design.
They are weak at the front and often bend where they are fixed at the ferrules front.
The other thing that is a problem, is heat treatment. Getting a good heat treater that doesnt warp the blades during the heat treating process is very difficult.
If you are serious about being a broadhead maker, and doing it well, I would expect an investment of between 50 to 100 thousand dollars to get you up and running........
Ryan,
Here in Wisconsin - this would be considered a barbed head, and illegal for hunting. As mentioned above - the back side of the blade has to be 90 degrees or more. Look at the old Bear Razorheads, or Bodkins, etc.
I think if you are intending to appeal to the tradbow guys (and gals) - you should add a bit more length. A lot of shooters are heading towards lighter draw weights, and I think penetration with lighter draw weights will be helped by a more streamligned profile. With your 1 5/8 & 1 3/4 widths - you may drive up the total weight of the heads by making longer. Of course there are many shooters in that market too.
Chinook