Like many, I have a conflict. No drama here - just a discussion.
My conflict is my desire to hunt a goat/sheep v. my bank account.
I've always been (and it grows stronger, each year) a "manner of taking" guy in lieu of an "end result" guy. But, I can't sit here and tell you I wouldn't like to take a goat/sheep.
As most of you know.....it's tough to find a fair chase hunt of this nature that isn't VERY expensive.
Does anyone else have a similar, inner conflict?
I can afford to chase 'em. I'm just not sure I wanna chase 'em in an enclosure. I know guys who go to Africa that hunt inside huge enclosures. They seem to endure it, just fine!....lol
Just fodder for discussion.
The three of us argue about it CONSTANTLY!
Me say "lets hunt goats this year", myself then says "but you've shot several goats concentrate on sheep this year", then I says "try and work it all in, don't be such as pansy".....
Johnnie Laird (Muskeg Excursions out of Ketchikan) would probably consider a drastically reduced rate for an early August goat hunt out of Hyder, Alaska because it can be done off the road system and his expenses are greatly reduced.
Johnnie and his partner know goats and some of the biggest ones anywhere are in that area and you should have the best weather.
Steve:
Thanks. If you (and anyone else wishing to promote a particular state/outfitter/etc...) could give me a "rough" est. at cost....that would be appreciated.
Thanks!
I think so.. sorta any way but I'd have substitute elk for sheep and pigs for goats or maybe goat for pronghorn or sheep for moose.
The rich Uncle needs to stop in for a hunt or I need to hunt for a rich Uncle.
It's way too confusing so I'll just stay home this year and hunt turkey and whitetails.
God bless,Mudd
I wouldn't even consider it for something I can afford to hunt free-range. I'm hopefully hunting hogs, soon. Elk on public land, this fall.
I turned down (2X) a whitetail hunt in a fence....when I was told I could take a 150" "mgmt" buck. No thanks.
Not saying I'll do this. Just thinking out loud.
I myself would love a CO elk hunt.My buddy and I dream about it.His GF's sister and her Husband live there so we have a free place to stay.Just have to look into the details.But that would mine.I can afford my hunt as well,it's the time/logistics that are the hurdle.
High fence isn't my thing either.No offense to those that like it,just not for me.
I want to go moose hunting again so bad i can taste it! But the average outfitters hunt in Canada is a minimum of 5k. Right now I just cant justify it. So I'll be home hunting turkeys and whitetails . Perhaps next year or the year after!
You're talking about mountain goats, right? Has someone figured out a way to put a fence around them? Regardless. There's hunting and there's killing. A fence provides the definition between the two.
Orion....I take it you're not a fan of African hunts?
I'm not asking what THE definition of anything is. I'm asking for opinions.
Right now, with CT DOUBLING THE HUNTING LICENSE, I am hoping to be able to get out for the spring gobblers as it is!! That said I know what you mean GMMAT. I'd love to scale the mountains for goat or sheep!! I mean, I am always a do-it-all-the-way-kinda-guy, so its not surprising that I work hard at learning to spot and stalk while others perfect the treestand methods (which I also use I might add ;) .
So, if I win the lotto, I going to Canada for Moose, CO for Elk, and the Yukon for Rams!!! Until then, I can be found in the Autumn leaves of CT skulking around for whitetails and turkeys (and someday maybe moose and black bears!).
GMMAT:
If you are talking about spending 10K+ to shoot a real free range sheep/goat and whatever ($2K??) to hunt a penned one, I'm guessing by reading your posts and passion for hunting you'd probably find it anti-climatic for yourself.
I'm guessing for myself, it would be fun to shoot one that was not free ranging especially if the guys in camp were good company, but it wouldn't be any where near the "accomplishment" of doing a free range hunt.
My problem, and I'm sure many here is that $10K+ is just out of the question. So, like others, until some windfall comes in, I'm hunting what I can hunt - deer, turkey, and small game. I hope to get to hunt some hogs within a year or two, and still get a nice elk hunt in some time in the next 5 years or so.
Tim
Jeff, that's why they call it a "Dream Hunt"
Three kids and a wife in school,No conflict the answer is no I can't afford it.Sucks for me for a few years till she's done school and gets the good job then she's my sugar momma and I travel...LOL
If you are hunting sheep or goat in a place that is not their environment are you really hunting a sheep or a goat?
I think I'd keep packing away the cash and putting in to draw a tag. If it was important to me, I'd be waiting until the real opportunity arrived.
QuoteI'm guessing for myself, it would be fun to shoot one that was not free ranging especially if the guys in camp were good company, but it wouldn't be any where near the "accomplishment" of doing a free range hunt.
I agree 100% (not the accomplishment of a free-range hunt). No contest (for ME, personally). I'd feel more of an accomplishment for the 7-pointer I shot last year (little over 91")...than I would a 150", shot at an outfitter.
But....I'd still enjoy the 150"! :)
I'm just discussing this, guys. The fact of the matter is.....my wife and I fly, fairly frequently. So, we usually fly - free. I've researched and found a place I can do a hunt like this for under $1K.
So....my interest is somewhat piqued. I don't want to (and wouldn't) sit in a stand over a feeder and kill one. I wanna do it from the ground, without a ground blind.
Plus....I'd get to see some more country. Never a bad thing.
Not sure if this helps, but
I think Tom said it best....it's a dream hunt. I'm a blue collar state worker in law enforcement, which means I ain't getting rich anytime soon, especially with the state of the economy in this country. I would love to bowhunt moose, bears, and elk, but my really big dream is bighorn sheep. They are such a majestic animal in my book. I could afford a hunt every couple of years as long as nothing out of the ordinary happens. For now I will be content with whitetails and an occasional pig hunt on my budget. Hope you find the answer you're looking for. Mark
I'd make it happen for 1K! Our family spends that much just going on vacation for a few days - only 7 hours from home (and could easily spend more). At the very least you will have an opportunity to see some beautiful country, challenge yourself, and make lifetime memories.
Some things are just out of reach due to price and everyone's limit is different. But if you can get it in under-budget - do it!
Sorry, bumped the wrong key.....
I did a CO bighorn ewe bowhunt for less than $4000 several years ago. I loved it and wish I had cleared my schedule to hunt the entire sheep season - I also had a MT elk/deer combo tag and split my available vacation time but that was a mistake. I got a little greedy, trying to cram as much hunting into one trip as possible, and picked up a mule deer tag too and that further distracted me from my goal of arrowing a bighorn sheep (but I almost got a whopper mulie in velvet).
Of course you have to draw the tag but a ewe tag is much easier to draw in CO than a ram tag. MT ewe is worth looking into also.
Thanks, Jeff. I have a dear friend in CO, who I'll be chasing mulies and elk with in Sept.. Either-sex elk.....mulie tag (either-sex...if I draw the tag)...and I'm not going to spend over $1,200 on the entire trip. We'll be hunting unit 45 (OTC elk tag) and camping on his land.
His sister finally got a ram tag on her NINETEENTH attempt, last year. I didn't ask how much the tag was....and she's a RESIDENT!....lol.
Would it mean "as much" to me to take one non fair-chase? Heck no. But....is it better than not going, at all?
That's the question.
Thanks SO MUCH for your responses - all.
G:
The situation I mentioned is the sole mtn goat hunt that doesn't require a drawing tag that I know of that a working man can reasonably afford. That said, I don't know if Johnnie would still consider that or not.
GMMAT,
You can hunt bighorn sheep over-the-counter in Montana. I believe the tag is about $700 bucks. Its a quota hunt which means when the quota is met, you have something like 24 hours till the season ends.
I've read that it is the toughest hunt in the lower 48 states. Big time grizz country and deep in the backcountry.
So there you go. You can do the homework and hunt DIY bighorn sheep in Montana for probably less than $1500 bucks!
Let me know if you get serious about doing it!
I need to look it up. I can't believe that an out of state tag for ANYTHING in Montana or Wyoming is only $700, much less a bighorn sheep.
Wyoming for certain has gotten to be a serious rip off on non-residents.
My opinion
ChuckC
Last year I had the opertunity to go on a hunt I'd dreamed about for years,,,but the $$$$,,wow.
I'm still paying for that one,but I did it an I'm never going to regret it.
You only live once,let us know how you do :)
ChuckC,
I believe its the only OTC Bighorn Sheep hunt. The disticts are somthing like 300, 301, 500 and 501.
A lot of guys consider it a sucker tag. MT makes some money but thats about it. I believe its an any weapon tag as well. If you see a sheep outfitter in MT that "guarantees" a tag, they are hunting these districts. A guy named Jack Atcheson made a name for himself hunting this area...
All of the odds are stacked against you; HOWEVER, you can hunt sheep in the lower 48 if you want to.
In West Texas/the Panhandle we can hunt free range Aoudad along the Caprock anytime because they are exotics. They have got to be one of the toughest things to bring down in the states. They are big sheep and have large horns. I don't know their whole range in the states but I wouldn't imagine it to cost near as much as a Bighorn to hunt and they are just as big and you don't have to draw a tag. You can hunt them free with a Texas hunting licenses on public land in South Texas near Lake Amistad certain times of the year.
Title Pawn
I think "fence" is a relative term when used in a hunting context. An elk or sheep in a pen that consists of 5 acres or so is alot different than a critter living inside of a 5000 acre "pen". But it's still a slippery slope I guess.
rapp:
If it's the zones/areas I'm thinking about (like I said...I checked Montana's site), they clearly tell you on the website that the OTC areas DO NOT guarantee you that you will be able to access those areas. It's a land-lock issue.
I guess it just boils down to what you want.If mainly wanting an animal to put on the wall I would just go to game preserve and shoot one.If you are looking the chance to hunt them in the wild then you neede to save more pennys. :D
I read somewhere that even with the best guides taking a sheep or goat with any bow was very low percentage.So just because you save the money for the very best hunt chances are you probably won't get an animal.Just something to think about.
I would take the cheaper route myself if I wanted such an animal in the first place.They are not really something I would want to hunt in the wild so I would have no problem going to a preserve and whacking one. :D
QuoteOriginally posted by GMMAT:
Like many, I have a conflict. No drama here - just a discussion.
My conflict is my desire to hunt a goat/sheep v. my bank account.
I've always been (and it grows stronger, each year) a "manner of taking" guy in lieu of an "end result" guy. But, I can't sit here and tell you I wouldn't like to take a goat/sheep.
If the above is
really the way you feel, go and hunt them with your camera. If you get within bow range, you will no doubt get some AWESOME pictures. Do everything just like you would with your bow, and do it for the price of a camping trip. At the end of the day, the only difference is the possession of a carcass. Let's face it, unless it's a controlled hunt, most goat/sheep hunts with traditional equipment end with just pictures anyway.
I've always wanted to moose hunt. My problem is that if I'm going to spend thousands of dollars on something fun I'd just as soon take my wife. Since she doesn't hunt we end up going hiking somewhere in the US and I can still have my dream. It all depends on how much you feel you "need" your hunt vs other things in life.
I couldn't agree more. A good camera hunt requires all of the woodcraft and hunting skills that any other kind of hunt does and unless you're carrying the kind of lenses that cost more than the actual hunt would, you need to get to damn near bow range to get a good shot.
The other upside of camera hunting, of course, is you don't have to pack out anymore than you packed in.
First off, if you find a penned Mt. Goat or other wild sheep harvest. It will be more exspensive than the real deal. These are generally taken buy people with money that cannot physically do a true wild sheep/goat hunt.There tends to be an extremely high $$$ attached to this ability. Most likely the penned sheep hunts you have seen are for corsican type sheep.
As mentioned above the free ranging sheep in Texas can be one of toughest hunts out there. Well worth considering.
G,
They can't guarantee you access b/c you might get ate by a Grizz on your way in. :)
You have to go about 8 miles before accessing the unit. But the 8 miles is through Wilderness...at least to one of the units.
Sent you a PM.
Why not just put it on a credit card and pay it off when your done? not the smartest thing to do but guys do it!
Only place I know of where you can hunt a Mountain Goat is in the West/North. Do not know of any in enclousers, same with true wild sheep like bighorns,Dall and Stone. Now, you can hunt regular goats and exotic rams in an enclouser and some free range. for me I would love to hunt mountain goat and the mountain sheep but am too old and too fat to handle the mountains like that, plus the expense cannot be justified by me, same with the yukon/canadian moose, I just do not have 15,000 to spend on a hunt. I will stick to whitetails,hogs in Texas and the sambar deer and hogs here on Guam and planning a trip to Australia in a couple of years though.
Danny
There are several high fence operations that offer big horns and mt.goats but as I stated prior, you will pay more for these hunts than wild/free range hunts. Last I read goat was $10,000.00 - $15,000.00 and big horn $25,000.00 - $50,000.00 pending size. Many a good goat hunt and sheep hunts for less than those $$$.
To me I just can't justify the expense for going after sheep with the success ratio being what it is. I wouldn't shoot past 25 yards. However I have a lot of animals of my list for less that I would be more than happy to go after like pronghorn, javelina, elk, mule deer, black bear etc.
I try and do whatever I can to make my dreams come true. I'd love to bag a sheep but if it meant that I'd be looking at my trophy and thinking that all I did was "buy" it I'd feel disappointed with myself. Sometimes dreams are what keep us going and if we try to take a shortcut to attain the dream we've cheated ourselves.
As I get older I've attained a lot of my "want list." It's been a small list and doesn't include a ferrari or big ticket items. I've noticed that once I've agotten the thing I've lusted after,it loses some of its allure. So a couple things on my list go unfulfilled on purpost.....just so I can keep dreaming.
the chef
Check out Alaska or BC for Mountain Goats. Stone and Dall Sheep can also be hunted there. You will need a guide and it won't be cheap but it is free range. Another option for regular goats it to hunt Kauii in the State of Hawaii. If you willing to hike there are feral goats to hunt. Several posts exist here from sucessful hunters who have done it. Otherwise start putting in and trying to draw and expect to be close to dead when you draw.
I'm like a few of the other responders in that I was totally unaware that anyone had high fence operations for mountain goats or wild sheep. Ya learn something everyday.
As for the one recommendation about photographing them, I have to agree. When I lived in Colorado and religiously applied every year for that coveted sheep tag, I appeased my cravings with a little self-medication.......I would take weekend trips to the sheep unit (archery unit) in the mountains behind the Air Force Academy. The goal was simply to "get" one on camera from bow range. While I was successful on legal rams on several occasions, I knew it certainly was not any kind of indication that, if I did eventually draw that tag (I didn't), that I would be successful. But it certainly gave me a lot of confidence and had to be the next best thing to actually carrying a bow for them. Great country and great animals.
BTW - ALL the REALLY LARGE full curl rams will challenge your stalking abilities to the nth degree :notworthy:
I still believe that this Colorado archery unit is the best area for sheep for the non-resident DIY trad guy. Drawing that tag is an entirely different story.
Oh yea.....I envy you Canadians who live near the Alberta Canmore zone!
Camera or not.......just being near them in a unit where they are hunted is a thrill. They are not the sheep you see waiting for handouts in Rocky Mt. NP or Yellowstone. From my point of view, if you have the time or can afford the vacation, it's the closest thing to actually getting your sheep hunting fix. One thing is for sure.....it will give you a "taste" of what it will be like (if the moon and stars align and you draw that tag).
Huntit,for that price it would be cheaper to get an apartment in the state you want to hunt and wait six months and get a resident license.Heck for 50g's you could buy some land and hunt on your own property.
The cost of an airline ticket to Maui or Kauai. You can backpack for free.
I'm saving my pennies.
Guys....This is an actual price list......
QuotePRICE LIST
Boar Trophy 600.00
List Of Hybrid Barbedoe Rams
Ram Barbedoe 600.00
Ram Merino 600.00
Ram Texas Doll 650.00 & up
Ram Corsican 600.00
Ram 4 Horn 650.00
Ram Black Hiwon 650.00 & up
Ram Muflon 800.00 & up
Goat Spanish 600.00
Goat Angoria 600.00
Record Book Rams Available 1000.00 & up
I know but guys with $$$ pay it every year or these places would not be offering. I think for the handicapped person who has a dream - why not. I just cannot see any able bodied real hunter going on one of these. But every year guys from all over the world come to Saskatchewan and Quebec to bag monster elk for $20,000.00 + and I guarantee when they go home there is no mention of fences!
Hey GMMAT i sent you a PM
There is a ranch here in Oregon that offers similar prices with some higher. It is about 3 square miles in area which is plenty of property to hunt if I wanted the animals they offer. To me that is free range enough to count. If you spook the animals, you are not likely to see them again in couple of weeks of hunting.
There are lots of big ranches in the US where you can hunt on large properties. If the property was less than 2 square miles, I wouldn't want to hunt it. For me there has to be a chance for the animal to escape from me for good. I would not find pleasure in chasing a sheep or goat around a small area until I wore it out and got a shot.
If you want to hunt a small area to get an experience and you go in knowing what you are going to get, more power to you. If it is legal then you can do it without any prejudice on my part against you. If you are looking for something you can call a trophy and be proud of the in my book, look to the larger properties and hunt hard. Hard earned sucess is far sweeter than an easy kill.
GMMATT:
For a grand, if you are just looking for fun, and it isn't a "prescious" grand as it would be for me with soon-to-be three kids in college - I'd say go for it and report back to us on your experience.
i.e. "it was worth every penny," "it was worth it, but I wouldn't do it over again," OR "yikes, what a waste of time"
I know I'd be interested to know how a hunt like this goes.
Tim
HI is a great spot where for a few days you could hunt axis, turkeys, goats, and pigs while the wife is at the spa, and get home round trip for less than a caged ram that in no way lives like the animals you say you want to hunt.
High fenced operations have their place and I am not knocking them, but a fenced critter that makes it's day avoiding blinds and chasing feeders going off is not very similar to a wild sheep or mtn goat.
I would do a HI family trip with bowhunting, or a free range aoudad hunt if I were you.
Luckily I am not, I have been told many times that one of me is almost too many...
Good luck and have fun.
This is a touchy subject for me. I was so content when I was hunting coyotes this morning,it was a warm beautiful day. But in the back of my mind I was thinking "I will be in vancouver in april" on business but can't afford to go hunting bear. I might stay an extra day and get a day with the fly rod but guide costs just to much for bear this year. Not even with a free plane ride. This year I put in for a harder unit here on my mt.goat tag vs putting in for one I would have a great chance at drawing. I could ramble on with more like; in New Zealand 2011,wyoimg/colorado deer/elk pionts I have ready to burn,cow moose pionts max out,might have an inside line on mexico sheep hunt. I think most of us go through this every year to some degree,it a compormise. I am very lucky were I live here because of all the differnt animals I can hunt localy but I will not be able to hunt them all(draw systems/money). But I guess that ok. It's all about time and money. Don't get me wrong I am very happy any day in the field,thats the problem. I just want to experiecince more,as much as I can. I might not ever get the slam done but I guess I can have fun trying. But I won't lie I will be lucky if I can even hunt a whitetail deer in my life time. :campfire:
What about a fair-chase aoudad hunt in West Texas or New Mexico? That looks like it would be an inexpensive hunt and might be the toughest animal you ever hunted? It can be done on public land and might satisfy you sheep need?
ill second the auodad hunt in texas. these are considered the "poor mans sheep hunt". these sheep would probably be the hardest animal to harvest with archery tackle next to free range ibex in new mexico. both hunts cost an average of about $3500 guided. aoudad could be done for half of that diy or trespass fee hunt. beautiful animal in true sheep country.
Here I thought you were asking about noble and majestic animals and how to possibly make a trip happen for real.
Now we're talking about barnyard goats and sheep in pens.....
LOL....
I've never heard anyone come back from Africa.....citing they hunted "barnyard" animals in "pens".
You could fly to New Zealand and hunt for Himalayan Thar and\\or Chamois. Not to mention red deer, and several other big game species. Their fall is our off season so you don't even have to sacrifice hunting at home to go. No hunting license and no bag limits either. And the mountains are spectacular...
QuoteOriginally posted by GMMAT:
LOL....
I've never heard anyone come back from Africa.....citing they hunted "barnyard" animals in "pens".
I don't know one guy that has gone that didn't have fun, but also most wish they had gone to someplace more wild.
Seems like your mind is made up, have a great trip.