Powerpoint viewer.
www.armyrotc.vt.edu/Classes/Powerpoint/Land%20Navigation.ppt (http://www.armyrotc.vt.edu/Classes/Powerpoint/Land%20Navigation.ppt)
I just noticed the popularity of the last thread and thought it would be fun to do some learnin, too.
http://www.wilderness-survival-skills.com/finding-direction.html
This is a good link, it goes in to how to do some basic celestial nav. Your watch is a good nav tool.
Jeff, Good beginner tutorial! For someone that is trying to learn to use a compass and map this is very helpful. Do you have the next tutorial site? Ben
Yeah, I'm searching for it as we speak. It has been a while, but I used to teach this stuff a bit in the Navy--but they consider it a perishable skill, it needs to be practiced regularly in order for it to stay with you.
I'll check it out. Been wanting to learn more about compass navigation...
Thanks- I was thinking that about the last thread. . . I want to learn more too!
Dan in KS
great thread, this is something Ive always wanted to know more about.
Orienting your map is one of the most commonly overlooked steps in the whole thing. I like to keep a red pencil in my pocket for keeping track as I go.
http://www.4orienteering.com/terrain_association/51/
A small notebook is also very handy, as you can make note of particulars as you log your waypoints. Logging as you go is something one really oughta do if going very far from the beaten path.
I will usually make a waypoint number on the map, then write in the notebook something like "#1-direction 050 streambed w/eddy and quakies approx 200 yds." This will help re reference you if there is any confusion going back out. Redundancy seems redundand, but its very helpful in case of confusion. Only need to make notes and waypoints at noteable places--the mouth of a stream, the entrance to a draw, your honey hole, etc. Making landmark/direction references will help loads if(God forbid)you break or lose the ol' compass. At least with a reference, you can "remember" direction.
Your watch is not only a great tool for celestial navigation, but it also is awesome for timing stuff!
It is a good idea to have some sort of an idea how fast you walk--when your hiking in/out and at least something close to your standard "hunting pace".
This way you can use Dead Reckoning to get from point A to point B.
You should get your pack on and "hike" a known mile(preferably one that isn't too straight or flat like the road) and time yourself. Write the time down in your handy little notebook, right on the inside cover. Now turn around and "stroll" back. Write this time down, too.
These times will be really important to you as you start to use your compass and map as your primary nav tools.
Thanks all for posting these sources.
RonP
Spectre I am glad I went in the Marines,I was a forward observer and land nav. was one of the greatest things I have learned.I have taught most of my friends.Its a must have.Technology can fail but a map and compass will save your a$$.Great links and good thinking :thumbsup:
HooYah! lpcjon2!
Now that you know how to orient your map and you know your speed, it can be a great idea to go to a known spot(maybe your favorite little hunting hike), a couple of miles walking oughta be good for a learning experience.
Starting from a known spot, orient your map then locate that spot on your topo map and mark it with your little red pencil. Look at the magnetic direction to where you want to go(a familiar area works great on account of familiarity--you will see)and take note of the distance to that spot. If there are legs(different directions to take)your first magnetic direction should be at the first "waypoint" or end of that leg. Now just hike to it, stop being "familiar" as you go, just rely on the compass for direction---now the kicker. TIME yourself, you know how fast(approx) that you hike, so you should stop every ten minutes and reference your map. Look at your topo and reference landmarks, this is where you gain confidence in your orienteering because you will see how easy it really is and with familiar territory, it will all "click" for you.
I am not a writer, maybe I oughta just stick to the manuals links. However, this is how I taught my guys.
Looking at the distances on your map, you have a pretty good idea where you should be at a given pace in a given time. 10 minute intervals aren't at all necessary, but its great for learning and getting familiar. I use 30 minute or hour intervals ar a norm---I reference the compass all the time, though, kind of a habit that you should get in to. Without regular direction references, the average person will walk in a great big circle every time. One leg is shorter than the other.
If you lose or break your compass and don't have A spare one here's A tip on haw to use your watch.
Hold your watch in your left hand and hold it with the face up.
Face toward the sun and take A twig or A blade of grass or anything about 3 or 4 inches long and thin and hold it up next to the watch so that it casts A shadow along the hour hand and across the center of the watch.
Now look at the shortest distance between the hour hand and the 12.
All you do to find north is imagine A line starting from the edge of your watch half way between the hour hand and the 12 and going threw the center of the watch to the other side.
The point between the hour hand and the 12 will give you the direction of south if you are in the northern hemisphere and north if you are in the southern hemisphere.
In exactly the opposite direction is true north in the northern hemisphere and south in the southern hemisphere.
Will you go over the section resection to show position?Shooting two azimuth's to two visually know points on the map and drawing a line on your map the point they intersect is your position.
If only I knew how to post a picture here...
You make a great point! That is easy as pie, and works.
Standby..
Thanks Spectre. It's been awhile since I've taken survival classes. Good brush up. Thanks.
Also known as "triangulation". Again, this will work only if you are properly oriented as magnetic north and true north are completely different things---we are working with magnetic north here.
Anyone who knows how to read a topo map can easily find prominent landmarks---a sharp peak is best. Pick two landmarks that are at least 45 degrees from each other. Now shoot an azimuth to the tippy-top of your first landmark and make note of the bearing. Now turn and shoot the tippy-top of your next landmark, make a note of the bearing.
Now on your oriented map(and assuming you have a handy straight-edge, my compass is one)draw a line through the tippy-top of the first landmark at the noted bearing, go ahead and make it a long line.
Now do exactly likewise with your second landmark bearing. The compass doesn't lie, the intersecting lines is within a few yards of where you are actually standing. Now you have a brand-new "known" waypoint. Make a note of it in your little notebook.
I'm probably about as clear as mud, right Marine?
If you use your grid lines(grid north), you can now find your lat/long using the scale along the edge of the map. Pretty handy stuff in an emergency. You oughta make notes of this in your little notebook, too.
You got it,you know ware your at :thumbsup:
And don't forget the back azimuth add 180 and subtract 180.It's great that your doing all the work
If i'm not mistaken each grid square is 1000 meters I may be wrong it's bin a while
QuoteOriginally posted by lpcjon2:
And don't forget the back azimuth add 180 and subtract 180.It's great that your doing all the work
If a guy writes his known bearings down(I am a NUT for writing stuff down), it is a simple thing to look at your compass and see the opposite bearing.
OR, you could do what the jarhead says and add/subtract 180! :smileystooges:
QuoteOriginally posted by lpcjon2:
If i'm not mistaken each grid square is 1000 meters I may be wrong it's bin a while
Depends on the map-----the good ones from BLM are 1000 meters. It says the scale in the map legend in the bottom corner...
NOW we can start learning in metric. Metric is actually easier than Imperial, anyway.
Jeff,I think you just increased the sale of compasses and maps with this post...LOL
QuoteOriginally posted by lpcjon2:
Jeff,I think you just increased the sale of compasses and maps with this post...LOL
While we are on that subject, I really like the Suunto Tandem. Its a pricey setup, but it gives a clinometer, too. VERY accurate and resistant to interference.
I go old school and get topo's from my geological dept of my state and carry a lensatic compass(military surplus).And as you stated a notebook also.
If timing yourself isn't your cup of tea, you should do a pace count for yourself.
If you have a trip odometer on your car, zero it out by a landmark like a street corner - be as accurate as you can. Then drive until your odometer hits .1 mile and stop immediately, note a good landmark at that spot for your end point.
Now that you have done this, you need to walk from your start point to the end point. Start off on your left foot and count every time your right foot hits the ground. You could count when every foot hits the ground, but imagine trying to keep up with a count like 132 when you could as easily count to only 66. Do this 4 times, start to end, end to start, start to end, then back one more time doing counting your pace each time. At the end, add them up then average it out. The result is your pace count. My pace count for 100 meters is 62, and for 1/10th of a mile is 100, but yours could be a lot more or less depending on your stride.
QuoteOriginally posted by lpcjon2:
I go old school and get topo's from my geological dept of my state and carry a lensatic compass(military surplus).And as you stated a notebook also.
Just so people know that a CrackerJack compass isn't the one to choose. I can't stress enough the importance of getting a REALLY good quality compass.
http://trainingnco.pbworks.com/f/071-329-1003+Determine+a+Magnetic+Azimuth+Using+a+Lensatic+Compass.pdf
Shooting an azimuth with a lensatic compass. The Suunto is much the same, 'cept it uses an eyepiece because it is a totally encased dial.
I was in the Marines long before "GPS" LOL,and we used to say "The most dangerous thing in the world was a Boot Brown Bar(2nd Lt.) with a map and compass!!!!!"
Lots of good stuff here!!!!! It's AMAZING how many people can't use a map and compass..... I always carry a compass. Even without a map basic North,South,East,and West will get you out of the woods if you get "turned around"!!!!!
Way to go Guys!!!!! :thumbsup:
quote:
Originally posted by woodchucker:
I was in the Marines long before "GPS" LOL,and we used to say "The most dangerous thing in the world was a Boot Brown Bar(2nd Lt.) with a map and compass!!!!!"
Lots of good stuff here!!!!! It's AMAZING how many people can't use a map and compass..... I always carry a compass. Even without a map basic North,South,East,and West will get you out of the woods if you get "turned around"!!!!!
Way to go Guys!!!!! :bigsmyl:
Kinda like riding a bike!!!!! Once ya learn,ya never forget!!!!!
(Hmmmmm, Come to think of it..... Last time I got on my kids bike,I dam near broke my neck)
Kinda like shooting a bow!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:
Hey guy's this is interesting i never thought about having a compass and map. Figured my Garmin is all id need. i used to install satellite tv and had a suunto clinometer setup like youre talking about, but sold it! anyway what is a decent compass to get and map? i havent read all three pages in depth so if this is already been covered....you can yell at me..lol! i wouldnt mind saving this post in the how too or as a stcky up top for future refrence.
Jason
Spectre, great thread! :clapper:
QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:
I'll check it out. Been wanting to learn more about compass navigation...
Same here Curt. Spectre ..Thanks alot for the links :thumbsup: :clapper:
Good stuff here. I get lost in my cellar.
I'm not trying to hjack this thread, but may I add this link? I have watched it several times..
I hope this helps also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4SKU20vVL0&feature=related
If you et a map of your local area from the state geo. then you can practice at home.
Good link frassettor. I love this stuff.
I'm no bowyer, and my arrow building skills are basic, at best. So I like to share what I can. I think it would be cool if everyone took time once in a while to share what they are good at with the folks who might want to know how.
Everything we learn makes us better bowhunters.
another great site - for all your survival and compass training skills
http://www.wildernessoutfittersarchery.com/
Jer bear
Reply With Quote I'm no bowyer, and my arrow building skills are basic, at best. So I like to share what I can. I think it would be cool if everyone took time once in a while to share what they are good at with the folks who might want to know how.
Everything we learn makes us better bowhunters.
Amen to that Jeff
Found a great price on a great compass IMHO.
http://www.knifecenter.com/
SKU: BN8097
Description: Brunton Eclipse GPS Compass With Base
Unit Price: 22.95
This is like a third of the price of most places I checked out..I bought two cause I was getting killed on the shipping once again - 25 bucks just for shipping, but they are 78 bucks in canada then you have to add shipping so i got a two for one.
Jer BEar
This is kinda like arm chair quarter backing. it is easy at home. :) take a flat land Texas boy and drop him on a river in Idaho, throw in a few squealing elk, couple of hours chasing of chasing 'em...it is not like I am keeping tabs on where I am.....adernaline is off the chart.
now what if you close the deal. start tracking your elk and the sun is setting????
I could not tell you which way camp was. It is hard to back trail yourself with a flashlight......i better have a gps with the camp marked. yep i got a compass and a map. mpa on the gps too. it is that gps that is gonna get me back to dinner. I use the compass to make sure the gps is updated. i get the direction from the gps and follow the compass.
know how to use a map and compass is a plus but it might not get ya home for dinner.
I have used both my gps in many different situations. getting practice with them and understanding under what condtions they may not update correctly is important. if you in a deep narrow valley with lots of canopy ya may have to hike up to get good updating on the gps. You can get you bearings from there.
i am a gps type guy :) .
rusty
QuoteOriginally posted by trashwood:
This is kinda like arm chair quarter backing. it is easy at home. :) take a flat land Texas boy and drop him on a river in Idaho, throw in a few squealing elk, couple of hours chasing of chasing 'em...it is not like I am keeping tabs on where I am.....adernaline is off the chart.
now what if you close the deal. start tracking your elk and the sun is setting????
I could not tell you which way camp was. It is hard to back trail yourself with a flashlight......i better have a gps with the camp marked. yep i got a compass and a map. mpa on the gps too. it is that gps that is gonna get me back to dinner. I use the compass to make sure the gps is updated. i get the direction from the gps and follow the compass.
know how to use a map and compass is a plus but it might not get ya home for dinner.
I have used both my gps in many different situations. getting practice with them and understanding under what condtions they may not update correctly is important. if you in a deep narrow valley with lots of canopy ya may have to hike up to get good updating on the gps. You can get you bearings from there.
i am a gps type guy :) .
rusty
So, I wonder how they ever did all that before handheld GPS?
I will do a celestial nav thread, I think.
I wouldn't rely on that GPS like that, but thats just me. The Military teaches that a GPS is secondary nav for a reason.
Well as far as getting turned around and it's getting late etc.....all I can say is that have the compass..watch..map...something to eat...a small space blanket...something to make a fire with and stay the night if you have too.
I always take a day pack hunting and my fanny pack.....some extra socks and the stuff listed above and a first aid kit.
Trail mix and a few chocolate bars and some water.
find a good spot and stay put...build a fire (first) then make a leanto or something to get you out of the weather if it's not a nice stary sky....
Then pick it up in the morning...someone said before me..DON'T PANIC....people in your camp will be worried but you should be able to make it overnight anytime you go out or you shouldn't go out.
GPS - is a secondary device for me - but I carry one and some extra batteries and always mark camp before I head out..but i do the map stuff first.
I think the worst places are places that don't have good landmarks.
Jer Bear
"I think the worst places are places that don't have good landmarks."
Places like that(flat), just remember roughly what direction you were drifting when you went in.
Please lets not get this thread closed by rehashing the same arguments. There is some good stuff here.
RonP
werd.
I'll throw together some celestial stuff and post it up tomorrow.
Great thread. Way over my head. Expect I might consider a Nebraska whitetail hunt in exchange for someone willing to properly teach me how to use my old Silva.
Might want a reciprocle turkey hunt thrown in.
Very informative Mr. Spectre
I don't see your point portugeejn . I think we are keeping to the thread.
We are just digussing some differences in getting around in the wilderness...pro's cons'
I think it's been very informative. i think ppl need to know that GPS and all they are cracked up to be are great when they work and joe six pack should be atleast aware that there could be some draw backs.
I think there has been some great info shared here.
JB
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowferd:
Great thread. Way over my head. Expect I might consider a Nebraska whitetail hunt in exchange for someone willing to properly teach me how to use my old Silva.
Might want a reciprocle turkey hunt thrown in.
Very informative Mr. Spectre
Its a deal.
As Emily Litella said, "Nevermind!" I was up too late and probably seeing things that weren't there. Thanks for an informative thread!
RonP
Navigation by the sun
The simplest and the most fundamental method for the map and compassless natural navigator is to use the sun. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west - roughly speaking. The only place it rises and sets due east and west is at the equator. When it reaches its highest point at noon, its direction will be either south (northern hemisphere) or north (southern hemisphere). In winter, the sun is lower in the sky so you will notice shadows are long.
Using a pocket watch
A method of finding north and south commonly used and trusted is by means of a pocket watch. Unfortunately, the apparent simplicity of this method may give a very wrong impression as to its accuracy. Finding a direction with a watch is a rough method of estimation. The pocket watch method can result in up to a 20 degree in error. To get good accuracy you need to have access to a table of the sun's direction. As a wilderness traveler, you probably don't carry this information, otherwise you are a devoted natural navigator.
However, there are times and places where finding direction with a watch will be reasonably correct. The most important things to remember when using this method are:
· Only to be used in latitudes between 40 and 60 degrees north or south of the equator, see the picture to the right. The nearer the Equator you are, the less accurate this method is.
· The most accurate result wills occur at noon on any day.
· Your watch has to be running on accurate local time.
Point the hour hand directly at the sun and then bisect the angle between the hour hand and twelve o'clock. This imaginary line will run north/south. If you are not sure which end of the line is south, remember that the sun rises in the east, sets in the west and is due south at noon for the northern hemisphere.
If you are in the southern hemisphere you instead point the twelve o'clock mark on the watch towards the sun and then bisect the angle between the hour hand and twelve o'clock. Remember, in the southern hemisphere the sun is due north at noon.
Learn celestial navigation, it's vital knowledge for the map and compassless natural navigator.
That was a bit of a recap of a previous post--however, I feel that it is very important stuff to know.
This method doesn't translate very well to a topo map, but, it is handy to know in case of getting in a tough spot.
The Moon
The moon is advocated by some references as being suitable for improvised navigation. It is, but only in a similar way to the sun. It is a better "sense of direction" indicator than a reliably accurate direction indicator.
The methods generally described for navigation by the moon are the directions of rise and set; and direction indicated by the phase of the moon. The shadow method used to navigate by the sun can also be adapted.
The moon's orbit is tilted about 5 degrees from the ecliptic (the orbit of the earth around the sun, or more correctly the apparent path of the sun across the sky). This means the rise and set directions for the moon can be up to 28.5 degrees either side of true East/West (compared with 23.5 degrees for the sun). Of course, the error due to latitude is not included in that! (Because of precession, the angle of the moon's orbit to the earth's equator actually changes from about 18.5 degrees to 28.5 degrees over a period of several years).
So, you see the moon is actually a pretty inaccurate indicator of direction.
The one improvised method, that is accurate for navigation by the moon is the shadow stick method. However, as the moon is at its zenith (highest point in the sky) at different times from day to day, it is important to plot the points when the shadow is the same length each side of the zenith. A line from the first point to the second point indicates East. This method is most practical on clear moon lit nights in order to get a distinguishable shadow. The stick used to generate the shadow must be vertical for this method to be valid.
Normally the moon is most useful as a rough "sense of direction" indicator. It rises nominally in the East, and sets roughly in the West. If the moon is following the sun across the sky (ie visible early evening) the illuminated side of the moon is very roughly West. Likewise, if the moon leads the sun across the sky (ie doesn't rise till after sunset), then the illuminated side is roughly East. At least one reference I have seen suggests this navigation by the phase of the moon is accurate, but it is not. It is subject to errors due to the seasons, the inclination of the moon's orbit, and the observer's latitude.
No two ways about it dark is a task. you can walk into brush so heavy it can take the stuffing out of you to get thru. In the day time you'd have gone around. You can get into dead fall hell. I have got a 30" inseam and every dead fall in Idaho is at least 34" off the ground.
If I was lost or real unsure how to find camp, I would considered over nighting it as opposed to tring to bust out in the dark. I go prepared for that case. The worst part would be that your hunting buddies might be worried enough to start after you. we all have gps, compass maps and radios. you likely know the problems with radios and mountain hunting.
I think the best thing you can do is study your maps, per hunt. someting I have found helpful in the past is an altimeter, if you don't have your gps to get you altitude.
LOL - lost is not fun for me. I know I am going get back to camp, I just may have to waste a lot of hunting/sleeping/eating time to get there.
rusty
Idaho is a bit rough, I only recently moved here from there. At least there is always something you can use for a landmark----on a LARGE scale! :bigsmyl:
Spectra, I didn't mean to pick on Idaho. It is just the only mountains that I have hunted DIY.
Idaho was a bit rough but the most exciting place I have hunted. Mule deer, b, bear, elk and GROUSE. I love grouse :) . I'd drive all the way to hunt them in good grouse year. IN in good grouse year ya might get lost but ya'd not strave :)
rusty
I didn't think you were picking on Idaho at all, I was agreeing with you.
I miss that place a lot....I'll be back for elk, though.
Virginia certainly has its perks, too.
Well, hunting season is here. Maybe its time to revive an old thread.
Be careful out there.
first link gave me a 404 error. pity. :(
No worries, the next ones all work.
Lot's of compass interest so soon to the season in most states. I tried the link also w/o luck. If you have any further connections & links I'd like to see them. I've used a compass for years but raggedly at best. Thanks in advance.
Here is a good one.
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/land_navigation_map_reading/index.shtml
Read on into this thread, there is some pretty decent stuff here. I was flu-bugged and bored, so I put a bunch of stuff up.
Mucho Bueno! I'll study it. Just want to orient myself in the wild. To put me at the head of the parade would be a mistake. Thanks, b
TTT for those who need a little training. :campfire:
Well I remembered this thread and thought it would serve some well to learn something in the off season.Tim
Good stuff here.
I liked it the first time I read it and still do. Spectre you out there?
Some really good info and help...thank you
Recommend we practice in the winter. Read the terrain now and without foliage you can see and understand what the map says.
I have a GPS but have a compass at all times. USMC taught me that a compass is a key to survival
Good thread
:campfire:
I've navigated hundred of miles in the desert using nothing more than a map and compass and when I ran out of map just the compass by itself.
Here's the thing. So much of land nav is being able to remain aware of your major landmarks and keeping your map oriented to those landmarks.
What if you don't have any landmarks? Well, then it comes down to being able to maintain a bearing and know your pace count (if you are walking) or make note of your odometer if you are mounted.
As a former Cavalryman I can tell you we needed to read a map in the turret of our tank as we maneuvered over the wooded hills and valleys of Germany or the vast deserts of the Arabian Peninsula. This was in the days before GPS.
But you always needed to know where you were. ALWAYS. No excuses. If I called you on the radio and asked for your location you better call me back and give it to me within 100 meters (6 digit military grid coordinate) and it better not take you 2 minutes to figure it out.
So you navigate by paying attention and not losing your reference points.
True north, magnetic north, grid north are fine. But the map is the tool you use. The compass really only tells you which way to go or to get a better idea of where you are if you are unclear. But if you are paying attention you should never get into a position where you don't know where you are.
ttt
almost forgot about this thread thanks for bringing to the top.
Join the Marines, you WILL know how to navigate, day or night
Seriously find some military manuals and read them. and the best thing then is have someone demonstrate the basics
Compass, Map, protractor, parachute cord, ahh the memories of navigation in desert's,jungle's, wood's, calling for fire. Yes Land Navigation is a great skill and one that once mastered like shooting a bow will stay with you forever. I served as an 03 in the Marine Corps for 9 years. And tried some of the first GPS's, and to double check used my Lensetic compass. In Desert Storm had one and after batteries did slid it in my cargo pocket and used the compass and map (only thing I trust). some basic rules, one a good compass is never wrong, plenty of young LT's and attest to this. Two, Orientate your map and use declination diagram, then get a resection. Three a ten digit grid will get you anywhere. Four, one often overlooked, know your pace count and keep tract (parachute cord for knots every 100 meters/yards).
TTT this is a great thread that everyone should check out.
And once you get used to looking at a topo map and using it for orienteering, you will be familiar enough with it to also begin using them for scouting pieces of property you have never set foot on...just a thought.
Remember to always orient the map...sometimes features or roads can look right, but if the map isn't oriented properly you can walk off in the wrong direction..
"A GPS with a Bullet through it is a Brick, a Map with a Bullet through it is still a Map."
Truer words were never spoken when it comes to Land Nav. Myself, I am worried about the younger guys who have grown up on Smart Phones and GPS. Land Nav is a perishable skill and must be practiced. I was in the Army long before GPS, nothing sharpens the Land Nav mind more, than being at the head of a Scout Squad at night in Indian Territory. Just my 2 Cents Guys..... I am a Map and Compass man , I own a GPS, but usually it holds down one corner of my Map :)
Ex Cav Trooper, Sutty
This is an old thread that every one should look over and spend some time learning a few new things.
ttt
good stuff! tagged for later
up for the new guys to read 6 yrs later...lol
I'm glad ya'll bumped this up. I've grown up and hunted here in the same area of Texas all my life. When I was a kid I wandered the woods around my house at all hours of the day and night and never got turned around. Never had a compass, gps or anything and never gave it a second thought. When I was in my early 20's I shot a deer on a new piece of property and got lost tracking it. Late evening and getting dark quick. I followed a creek for about an hour or so and finally started hearing highway noise, and was able to walk out. It almost ruined me!! For a few years after that I wouldn't get 30 yards off the road because I'd start to panic. I got a good compass and learned to use it and followed that up with a GPS just recently that I'm still tinkering with. I use a compass all the time now on property I'm not familiar with just to make sure I'm staying in the right general direction. Ton of good info on this thread that everybody who hunts can use.
Every time I see these threads...I am reminded of an encounter I had in college. A friend of mine was busying himself learning a slide-rule. I asked him why...he said my calculator could run out of batteries this never will.
True enough, but haven't seen another slide-rule since that day 30 years ago.
Nothing wrong with learning interesting and challenging things. Heck that is why I shoot trad. But arguing that it is necessary or important - not so much.
In the event, I need something besides my GPS, I will take out my compass, pick a good cardinal direction and go.
I haven't looked back through this thread completely, but if you are ex-military then you will understand the UTM system and it's basics. This is the system that I use and am wondering how many others use it? Thanks.
Grouse