http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=085091;p=1
Not sure how I missed this thread. Hallalouya T!
Reminds me of a conversation Doug Campbell and I had on our recent Kauai trip. We started adding up how many different broadheads we had in our collective quivers all the way from 125 grains to 190 grains; we both realized the outcome wouldn't be different regardless of which arrow we nocked for any given shot.
Matt "Shoeman" Schuster and I did the same trip a few years earlier and we had the same approximately dozen different broadheads in our quivers and three types of shaft materials (Matt).
I had two other trips to Kauai with the same hodgepodge of arrows.
None of the two dozen animals cared which arrow we grabbed prior to the shot.....
Come on Steve. You know everything has to be matched. Couldn't possibly have more than 3 grains difference in arrow weight. Everybody knows that! different type arrows always shoot differently too. :bigsmyl: :clapper:
I have a friend I shoot 3d with, and he carries wood, alum. and carbon. Some are lighter/longer then others but they all shoot great for him.
You know how your bow works so that's all that matters.
Awful lot of critters sent to the table long before grain scales and spine meters were invented. Practical matching and practice account for a whole lot of success. I could have the best matched arrows to bow set up going and would probably only shoot marginally better than I do already. I need lots of practice :)
The way I shoot, its not gonna matter either...lol
God bless,Mudd
BTW Thanks Steve for sharing your hunt with us.
Thanks for this post!!! I really like looking at the physics involved in archery. From flight to cut. But WWWWWAAAAYYYYYY more people need to realize that most of this stuff comes down to awfully nit-picky bologna. I'm all for a great forgiving setup, but on a practical note most of these "improvements" that can be made just give more confidence and won't take game any quicker. I feel more people need to get confidence in THEMSELVES rather than their equipment. Get a decent shooting setup and shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, ......
I'm changing my signature... Close enough to kill is close enough for me.
Funny you mention this. One of the first trad hunters I knew was an outfitter in Ontario. He was also an extrememly successful hunter with many big game trophies to his credit. He told me that since he shot instinctively it really didn't matter what arrow and broadhead combo he chose and his quiver was full of different arrow and broadhead combos. He had some wooden shafts, carbons and aluminums with a bunch of different heads on. I always thought that the simplicity of his setup was so appealing.
Well I am pretty type A and want EVERYTHING to be the same. It has more to do with me than how the equipment performs. Case-n-point: at my last 3D shoot I screwed in the wrong weight tip on my my #1 arrow(150gr instead of 200) and shot the best round of my life. I realized later that it wasn't my perfect set up. Yep me thinks we doth think too much :)
I am obsessive about my arrows keeping them down to 1 grain weight difference, etc.... Just my engineering nature. I have three sets of arrows one wood, one carbon and one fmj's. They all weight different weights and the heads are different weights. I carry all three in my quiver and shoot them randomly at 3D shoots now. Despite the differences, out to 3o yards, I can't tell the difference in arrow impact on a 3D target. I hit the same with each type of arrow.
Yes, I still plan to be obsessive over my arrows. It gives me confidence in my set up and that confidence helps with my accuracy. I know if I miss it is me and not the equipment.
Once about 15+ years ago I was doing a geodetic survey at an Air Force base in Japan. The dude in charged was visting with a "customer" and asked what order of survey they wanted. Of course they wanted "the best".
So what is the point of having surveyed to .00001 cm accuracy if the equipment they were using is only capable of 10 cm accuracy?
BTW even thou that was a rhetorical question it has a common sense answer -- NONE.
I here ya loud and clear, Steve! But I can't see Russia from my house! :biglaugh:
I recall reading how Howard would shoot others arrows, short, long, underspined, with accuracy! Fred said he would rather shoot 100 grains difference, but did like close spine weight.
I saw my friend, Gary Davis, shoot the Big Bear at Cloverdale, many years over, with his selfbow, and others arrows, or their bows, with his or their arrow, with great accuracy!
I'm guilty as charged, I carry and shoot various arrows from my quiver! I'm still having fun!
But wouldn't that be like putting money in my wallet without arranging them in numerical order with all the presidents facing the same direction?
Like loading the refrigerator full of beer without the labels all facing out?
Like mixing the tall books with the short books on the bookshelf?
Like shooting a big whitetail with a big drop tine on only one side?
These things matter!! Without order there is chaos!! ;)
I suppose if they were all fletched and crested the same color I could give it a try. :biglaugh:
I can shoot matched arrows into the dirt just as well as unmatched arrows. So I go with the mixed arrangement.
Jack
I needed to see this after alot of the tech talk .THANK YOU THANK YOU.
A good flying arrow is a good arrow no mater how it is set-up. So if they are all good flying arrows what would be the difference? If they are truly a mixed matched pile of stuff thrown together I think I would pass on shooting at animals with them.
When I shoot targets I shoot all the arrows I have that dont have broadheads on them,if I do my job well,the cedar hits a little higher and ash hits a little lower and theres chundoo and some poplar and?? that are somewhere in the middle.Some have 160grn points,some 125s,judos,whistlers,But out to twenty even that isnt too much of a spread and if you read the posts about "ethical shots"nobody shoots at animals past twenty,right?
Steve, forgot to add Happy 47th birthday, Sir! Always enjoy reading your adventures!
Well after about 30 years of shooting bows, my thing is I always have that 1 favorite arrow, in the quiver. The go too arrow! It's a special as the bow I'm shootin.
"If they are truly a mixed matched pile of stuff thrown together I think I would pass on shooting at animals with them."
I would have leaned this way at one time too but the results of many of us over years has indicated that most of us can't out shoot a reasonable spread of differences in arrows and the results aren't any different between 30# of spine difference and 100 or more grains weight difference between arrows.
Bottom line is if you want to match to 1 grain and 1 # spine that is fine BUT don't conclude that it therfore matters and don't put that false "knowledge" forward as necessary.
To do so, especially to the new generation that probably only has c-pound experience is a disservice.
Got a buddy who can shoot any...and I mean ANY arrow with good results. I've seen him do it with 35lb. spine woodies and my overspined carbons.
Me, my results go to he!! in a hurry if I allow much variation in arrows. You can call it a mental or a gear issue, the nitty gritty is I need my equipment matched to get good results.
Isn't this an equipment thread with camo on?
:-)
But seriously.
Come to think of it, I seem to recall hanging up the wheels for something simpler. Bottom line if we all put the max effort into our shooting form, a lot of this other stuff is of less consequence.
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve H.:
"If they are truly a mixed matched pile of stuff thrown together I think I would pass on shooting at animals with them."
I would have leaned this way at one time too but the results of many of us over years has indicated that most of us can't out shoot a reasonable spread of differences in arrows and the results aren't any different between 30# of spine difference and 100 or more grains weight difference between arrows.
Bottom line is if you want to match to 1 grain and 1 # spine that is fine BUT don't conclude that it therfore matters and don't put that false "knowledge" forward as necessary.
To do so, especially to the new generation that probably only has c-pound experience is a disservice.
Steve please note I said "I", because "I" can't shoot arrows with spine 30# different and have my broad heads fly to the same point at 20 yards.
I assumed that the arrows in question were different, but each reasonably matched to the bow. Maybe I was mistaken on that.
I shoot the same arrows and broadheads for everything.
Don't mix anything up.
Sorry but I'm like that,,,just common sence to use the best you feel.
Steve and others, I believe you're right to a certain extent.
But a #30 spine difference? No way for me bud....
100grs. of weight at 20yds, may not be a big deal...but 30#'s of spine and not being able to tell the difference...not any bow I've ever shot a bh out of.
For me, for hunting critters with BH's on my arrows...I want them matched very close...but that's just me.
Now just messin' around stumpin'...not a real big deal...but you still won't see me mixing things up too much...
Again, this is just me...
I don't do too much mixing either. Once I find an arrow that a bow likes, I stick with it, keeping broadheads and blunts / fieldpoints the same.
I don't use a wide range of spine but close tolerance physical weight I don't think twice about. I don't get all freaked out because not all woodies weigh the same when I open a pack of 100.
Most of MY hunting is super-close range stuff and sometimes I go a long time in between anything shot over 15 yards (and no I'm not a strict treestand guy, quite contra-ire)
Whip. . . tell me you don't REALLY do the beer(label) thing......
ChuckC
Some great discussion guys.
So bottom line is having a reasonably matched set of arrows is great BUT if you are matching arrows orders of magnitude beyond your shooting capabilities, then please don't do others (new listening ears) a disservice and portray this as critical/necessary -- that is my real point(and T's point in the 'Its Not Popular Mechanics' thread).
Oh, I understand your point Steve and by all means Terry's on the other thread. Terry and I have talked a lot about this kind thing.
But I also believe that shooting matched equipment helps a lot of people(anyone for that matter) shoot up to their "potential", mis-matched stuff will only make it worse...
My point on that thread was a 'MENTALITY' issue and basicaly with a certain 'group' of posters.
Thanks Steve.....gonna close this one up now....