Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Don Batten on March 04, 2010, 08:40:00 PM
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Ive shot and hunted trad since 1990. I know the deal about heavy arrows. I fell off a house in 89 and broke my shoulder. the doc say's i got some artheristas in it now. Ive hunted with 60lbs for ever. I shot 3D with 40 to 50 but always went back up to 60 before hunting season. Now 60lbs hurts to shoot.I did shoot 3 deer this year with my 46lb bow(420 gn arrows) got pass throughs on all and recovered in 50 yds or less. I atribute this to learning how sharp is sharp. My ? is i'm getting ready to go back hog hunting.I always shot hogs with my heavy bow and had great luck. I got some arrows that weigh 675gns and shoot great out of the 46lb bow. I do notice that past 20yds they fall off quickley. They fly good and straight(bare shaft, paper tune) I have heard of super heavy per lb not as good as 8 to 10 gns.
I'd like to just hear from folks who have some real life experiences with this. I'm not interested in the math and what not. I know the pingpong vs the golf ball stuff. Please don't think I'm being gruff, It's just that I'm kinda po'd that my body is getting wore out to the point that I gotta ask this ? thanks Don
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I know how you feel "batman", got most of the same problem. Shot a hog a couple of years ago with arrow weight about 625, shooting a B.L. L.B. 47# @ 27" but my draw is 25 1/2". Blew right through with a 2 blade, hog went about 25 yr. They do drop alot past 20.
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The Ashby forums on enhanced penetration arrows deal with a wealth of testing info for light bows and heavy arrows.
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Go for it!!! You put the point where it belongs and you'll be good.
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Before starting my own business I worked in archery shops for over 16 years I have taught thousands of peaple to shoot and have guided for over a hundred bowhunters from deer to hogs. Real heavey arrows are great at close range but I have always found that 8 - 10 grains per inch offered the best in quieting the bow, speed, and penatration with any bow.
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If it'll harvest a deer it'll harvest a hog!!! Its not ideal as far as trajectory goes but a heavy arrow will keep its momentum longer than a lighter one will and that will increase penetration! I have friends that shoot wheel bows and when we do penetration tests i get better penetration than they do 9/10 times! Go for it!!! Good luck!!!
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I shoot 610g from a 50lb bow with no issues.
With pigs on the ground it's not likely your going to be shooting past 20 yards anyway,so so long as those arrows are flying well,I think your good to go.
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Well I feel like anything over a 500gn arrow is a waste of good trajectory myself.Unless you find something a lot bigger than I usually shoot the extra arrow weight means very little because 500 grains will shoot through them much farther that you can hit them. jmo Of course if you like those logs have at it. :D ;)
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Batman,since having some shoulder problems,I started playing with some lighter weight bows and heavier arrows with higher FOC.Dropping bow weights from 60-66lbs.,To 50-55 lbs and increasing FOC,I have been able to double my penetration.
I was playing around recently with a chronograph and after checking speed of a 714 gr arrow,I tried a 619 gr arrow from the same bow.I gained 10 FPS from the lighter,619 gr arrow.95 grs lighter arrow weight gained 10 FPS.
That surprised me,so I tried a 530 gr arrow from the same bow.That drop in arrow weight gained me another 10 FPS.That all figures out to: dropping 15 % arrow weight gains 6% in speed.That is just on my bows but I checked it over and over again.
Losing 10 % speed can't mean much in terms of trajectory.I have no interest in measuring all that but I know,the adjustment from 500 to 700 gr arrows was not nearly as big a deal as I expected.
The bottom line is,I wouldn't take anyone's word for any of this.It is very easy to assume what may or may not happen,but it is a very simple matter to try a few different setups and see what results you get.
I have had no problem adjusting to the heavier arrow weights out to 30 yds.I cannot,in good conscience,shoot farther than that at big game.If you can shoot accurately at further distances at game,the heavier arrows may be problematic.
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Shoot an efficient bow and as much foc in the arrow as possible. 45# is more than enough. Get some carbons and cut them down as far as you can go. Add point weight till they tune. If they're too heavy drop down in spine weight and repeat. If they're too light go up. This way you can get the maximum foc in your arrow. I'd try to keep the arrow weight between 370 and 500 grains.
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I would say 12grains per pound is max I would go because of speed drop off. 10-12 gpp is really a sweet spot when you are looking for penetration. A Caveat, past 20 yards and you are going to see the some steep drop off on the high end of the spectrum listed. If you are hunting out of a tree primarily heavier isn't a problem as gravity has less effect. If not the old 10 gpp rule is great. I shoot 640grain arrows out of a 53lbs bow and they are freight trains. I am completely confident and have had pass through consistenly on whitetails out of a treestand. The drop is negated by the elevation change when considering weight. Off of the ground I am more of a 10gpp guy, where drop off matters more. I would speculate for whitetail this is overkill, the good kind, but it is repeated to death for a reason, quiet bows and dead animals. Also 45# is adequate horsepower, I'd shoot a 450-550gpp arrow and never give it a second thought with a 2 blade and a 45 lb bow on a whitetail. Don't worry go hunt, have confidence.
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Just go out and shoot some hogs with them arrows then invite us down for some delicious North Carolina BBQ! :thumbsup:
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Just take a look at the bow poundages and the total arrow weights in grains in my signature. They're light arrows per inch, but with my long 30" draw length and the light bow poundages, those light arrows become heavy arrows. They're all very flat shooting out to 20 yards out of my 66" recurves and 68" longbow. My 42# recurve bow with a 32" long 555 grain 2213 shoots 13.21 gpp, my 37# recurve bow with a 32" long 526 grain 2212 shoots 14.21 gpp and my 41# hybrid longbow with a 32" long 526 grain 2212 shoots 12.82 gpp. During the last 45 years of bowhunting and I've taken bullfrogs, rabbits, javelina, feral hogs (250 pounds and under) and whitetail deer; I don't think I've ever taken a shot past 20 yards so I don't know and don't care how much an arrow drops in trajectory past 20 yards. If you like your arrow setup and it works for you, stay with it.
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I'm shooting a black swan hybrid that is 45@30". I had some 620 grain arrows made up for a 62 lb. longbow and they just so happen to work for the swan. I was suprised to see how little they drop out to 30". Less than the 62lb. longbow. It depends on your bows efficiency. I wouldn't worry about a hog with your setup having taken deer with it. I'd stay away from that armour plate on a big boar.
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I used 840 gr arrows on a pig out of a 42 lb bow I draw 30 so I get more like 48 from the bow . I got dirt on the other side of the pig and couldn't be happier with the results. if they shoot good go for it , this is a close range sport and don't worry about arrow drop. Practice and know your equiptment . Drew
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If your read Asbys reports, on this site, examining FOC and arrow weights I think you will have the answer you are looking for. H
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Lots of good stuff here! Id say bow weight is such an overrated factor! Ive been at deer camp with guys shooting bows from 45#-70#! Had passthroughs with the 45# and had arrows stay in the deer with the 70#! Tons of factors there i know but dead is dead, so id worry more about shot placement! Get yourself some hardwood shafts like ash and tip them with a solid streamlined point like a Grizzly or a Stos and you my friend have more than just a pig gigger, you have a solid elk setup!
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I have a friend in the same boat as you! He was a pitcher his whole life and has issues with his shoulder after surgery! He shoots a 48# longbow and i believe 650-700gr arrows! He has killed elk with it as well as deer, bear, turkey, and small game! The heavier arrows make the bow whisper quiet and once you get used to the arc you will become very accurate with it if you are an instinctive shooter! He shoots very good scores at 3D shoots!
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I'm shooting cane and hardwood shoot arrows that run between 600grs to over 700gr and my bow(yew selfbow) pulls 47#@26". Both cane and hardwood shoot arrows have heavy FOC just because of their natural shape(tapered)and at hunting distances they shoot right where I'm looking.
Knowing the trajectory of your arrows at hunting distances is important with any set-up no matter what the arrow weight.
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Inside the distance of what most animals are taken at(20 yds), the difference between a 500gr arrow and a 700gr arrow is negligable! In my experience most people arent honest with themselves when it comes to their max effective range! Ive seen and heard alot of guys say its 35-40yds, and when you shoot with em its more like 15yds! Its not the case with everyone i know, there are some really good archers and there are some really good bowhunters, people that know their limitations and stick to them! If you shoot heavy arrows you are a bowhunter, and thats what you want! My personal cutoff is bout 25yds! Shoot the heavier arrows and you will have hunting success, period...
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What James Wrenn said :D plus or minus 20 grains
As far as your shoulder...tell Tommy to put you on "Light Duty" (LOL)
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I have noticed a 50percent increase in speed when I took my bow quiver off. It's a Kanati. LOL. Just like we have talked about before John, Old James Wrenn is spot on with his info. I think I'll be OK. Got some axis with 213gns on the front for a total of 510 gns. shoot good out of the tradtech and the heavies shoot great out of the addiction. (a bow near and dear to my heart) I shot it with the 675gns today out to 40 yds. aint nothing but a thang. I kinda like getting to watch the arrow while it's getting there and when it does, it knocks my turkey target over every time. Don
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Don - A few years ago I had a Crow Creek longbow that was about 43 - 44 lbs at my draw. My arrows were about 550 grain carbons. Shot an 80 lb. hog with it and a STOS broadhead. The arrow zipped through that hog so fast I was not sure of the hit. It completely shattered the front leg bone when it exited the hog - and that is a big bone even on an 80 pound hog....James Wrenn was with me when it happened - he was on one side of a bushy spot and me on the other and the hog chose to come out on my side :) ...Everything else I've shot has been with 50# plus bows...Now whats gonna be interesting is if you get a hold of one of those gnarly 200# plus boar hogs with that lighter bow....
Another time I was hunting with James when he shot a gnarly boar that was 175+ pounds - if I remember right he was shooting about a 45 pound bow or so and he broke the back leg with one shot and shot clean through it quartering away with the second arrow - he was using a Simmons two blade on that one.
I personally think the broadhead is just as important as the bow weight...I'd probably shoot me a two blade or a low profile 3 blade like the Woodsman or VPA Terminators with that weight bow..
I personally like a little heaver bow for hunting but knowing how good a hunter you are I know the lighter bow will work fine for you...
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Thanks Wally, I got the broadhead figured out. I shot the Abowyer Brown bears this year. Not a wide head like you and james's simmons, but I can get them babies so sharp you would not believe it. I shot 3 deer and they all bled out really quick. the longest trail was about 50yds and that one was shot almost straight down out of the stand. got one lung and the liver. the other two died in sight. All three just kinda bounded away like they had no clue what had happend. I think the sharpness and the two blade had alot to do with it. Tell Joyce I said hey.
I guess James did'nt lead that hog far enough if he hit it in the back leg? LOL Don
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Batman
Hey...speaking of products....when you gonna fix that leaky shop addition you built at my place.(LOL)
Stick with the Addiction or any lighter bow under 50 pounds. I think you'll be ok. I know my bones don't cooperate well with 55 plus pounds.
Wally
I've read most of the book you sent me. Great read! Thanks
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With your accuracy, and the attention to details and practice that are an intragral part of your shooting/hunting ethics, Don, I can't imagine you'll have any problems putting anything you hunt down to stay, with whatever setup you settle on. Having said that, however it has made for an interesting thread with lots of comments from other folks whose opinions I have also learned to respect. (Just be careful with "My" Addiction, knocking around after those hogs, will ya? :D )
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Last year I went pig hunting in West Texas, and one of the bowhunters (Brent Hill) killed a 225# boar with a mid-40's Bob Lee and an unweighted carbon arrow. Back at camp, he set the hog up on a sand hill and took another test shot. The arrow, tipped with a 1964 Bear Razorhead, went through both shields.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/wesbrock/IMG_5299-small.jpg)
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Don, I'm sure with your accurate shooting and that sharp broadhead you will do just fine. Getting older and old injuries can be tough. Feeling a little of that myself.
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Don reguardless of what you might hear some hogs can jump the string just like a deer. :D
Either way at 30yds a 45lb bow put a big simmons through both hams,broke the big leg bone all the way into on the far side with a 480gn arrow.The follow up shot at 35yds put the treeshark out the far shoulder on the quartering shot.Have also shot through both shoulder blades and never found the arrow on a 150 lber from the more reasonable 20 and under shots.You got plenty of bow and with small broadhead you can shoot through most hogs you see length wise if things don't wotk out. ;) I would be a lot more concerned about what kind of boots I was wearing if the snakes are out than the bow you are useing. jmo ;)
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Thanks to all for the help. I think I got a good handle on it . Did right much shooting today from 10 to 40+ yards with my broadhead of choice. Abowyer brown bear. confidence in very high on this end. thanks again, Don
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i have played around with heavy arrows some. i also shoot 45-48# bows because of shoulder problems. i think that when you get past 12gpp you start to loose. not saying that a 10 yard shot with a 700 grain arrow would not be good, but what about a 25 yard shot? i think that with the rainbow tradgectory at longer distances the best all around arrow weight is around 10-12 gpp.
benji
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One thing many seem to forget about with heavy arrows is the higher arch.Sure out in an open lane or yard you soon adapt to the extra arch in the heavier arrow.However in the woods where lanes are not cut and particularly chasing hogs in the swamps there will be shots that the extra arch will keep you from making.There will be places a flatter shooting arrow will get under limbs instead of hitting them.Granted hunting hogs usually means you can get a few steps closer when needed,but not always.Since the lighter arrow will kill them just as dead I honestly see no reason in adding arch that need not be there. ;)
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I would vote for the heavier arrows. I have shot elk with lighter (450-500gr.) and heavier (590-650gr.) arrows and light bows and have always gotten significantly better penetration from the heavier arrows-all with 2 blade heads. You just have to limit your shot distance and get "stickbow close".