How big are your groups at 6yards, 12yards, 18 yards, 24 yards, and 30 yards. For this poll groups will be measured by the distance from the point you are aiming at*2. So a 6in group means the farthest arrow is 3in away from the point you're aiming at. Measure to the middle of the arrow.
For those with 1" groups at 30 yards :scared: , keep in mind you need to shoot more than one arrow. :bigsmyl:
Crap, there goes MY average then.
ChuckC
Yeah-why practice shooting more than one arrow at a time unless you are bareshafting?
I shoot instinctivly and based mine off of 3 shot groups. Out to 30 I'm pretty accurate since I mostly shoot 40 and beyond. Stretching out to 40 and the groups open up to around 12"...out to 60 and we're talking 30", but at least I'm still on the bail.
-Mack
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
Yeah-why practice shooting more than one arrow at a time unless you are bareshafting?
I concur. I may shoot multiple times at the same target before pulling, but not from the same distance after my bow is tuned. One counts.
Depends on how big the barn is
You might want to shoot groups to work on form. If you're constantly changing distance you won't be able to detect changes in form so easily. Now shooting from different distances is good but it's better when used in combination with a consistent distance. Also it's just nice to see how close you can get a group of arrows from a set distance. Stump shooting is really good for the randomized shooting.
Bout this big......
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w43/silvertip70/P1030003.jpg)
I am new but at 6 yards and 12 yards I feel pretty good 20 plus got a lot of work to do!
How many times then, in a hunting situation, can you use your "form".
Me thinks you should change angles and stance each and every shot. Groups are good for field archery but not much use for bowhunters.
I'm with Biggie! I've pulled off more shots in "out of form" positions than being able to stand perfect with good form. just dosen't happen very often for me.
When thinking about it my worst range is probably 20 yd. I think that is about my max gap or something. I typically shoot as well or better some days at 25.
I very rarely shoot groups under 15 yd., and rarely shoot more than two or three at the same spot even at 15yd. It is way too hard on arrows. When I do it I still shoot more open groups because I think I flinch off the group for fear of breaking stuff.
This morning before work I was shooting real well. I was doing about 4" at 20 and 25 yd. with 6" at 30 for the one group I shot at 30, and I had 3 arrows in less than 2" in that group. I had one four arrow group at about 20 yd. that was the equivalent of what you would get if you took four shafts and put a rubber band around them. That is the best group I have shot in a long time. That cost me a nock. If only I could shoot like that all the time. Most days it is more like 6"@20 and 25 with 12" at 30.
I find I shoot my first arrow the best most times if I get the range right. For some reason I have more of a tendency to get lazy shooting a lot of arrows from the same distance to the same spot if I am on with the first one.
Groups are just an easy measure of accuracy. Now 3d courses and things are nice, but not everyone can get access to the same course. I just wanted to see where I am in terms of accuracy with the rest of the traditional archery community. You can use form in a hunting situation. Form doesn't mean target archery. There are types of form where you can adjust. For example keep back tension, your shoulders pointed at the target, don't drop your bow arm, keep a consistent anchor point, but move hips, lean, bend legs, whatever else to adjust to the situation. Now I'm not saying don't shoot at randomized distances, but I am saying that a combination of things is better. Stance isn't an aspect of form for bowhunters. Stance changes but those things I listed before don't.
neat poll!
I stand at the target and throw 5 or 6 arrows to different locations. I then walk to them and shoot frome where they land. You have to be carefull about cutting the arrows in half from different angles. I sit down, squat, one knee, lean on the tree, put your right foot in.......You get the piture. I also like to shoot at tennis balls thrown all over the yard.
The key, for a bowhunter, is to put the first arrow into the vitals every time.
Groups don't help that in my opinion when it comes to confidence in the woods.
Back in my wheelie days I would set a "bar" for shooting groups. Say 2" from the quarter sized spot at 30 yds. Total 50 arrows that session and I would shoot at different spots each time. Whenever I did not hit within whatever my determined goal was I pulled and didn't count the last arrow.
Then my measure of accuracy is how few times I pull the arrows in that 50 arrow session.
Whats form? I shoot lots of grond squirrels and most shots are at 20-40 even 50 . If you wait till you have that perfect 10-15 yard shot your never going to shoot at one. I should say. (I try to shoot lots of ground squirrels) Why shoot at six yards ? Good poll.
To me form is how you draw, anchor, and release an arrow. This should be consistent and not change from shot to shot regardless of angle or stance. Shoot left, right, high, low, close, or far, your form should remain the same.
I seldom shoot two arrows from the same spot so I have no idea about what kind of groups I shoot. Probably wouldn't be good. :)
I have been pretty self concious about my groups and wondered how far below par my shooting really was.And actually thought about posting a verry similar question,but didn't know exactly how to phrase it to get the info I wanted without making it more discouraging for others in the same boat.
I have shot instinctively for a while and with no reference or aiming point,it leaves alot of variables that can mess me over.If something shakes my confidence,I'm done.
A good group for me at about twenty yards is
about six inches and gets bigger the more arrows I shoot at 40 yards,I might get the first shot or maybe two pretty close(I have hit a McDonalds cup)but if I were to shoot six arrows the group would measure about 28 inches or even more.
The responses so far have made me feel a little better as it seems like something no one really wants to talk about.
Hope that helps.
Robert
I pretty much shoot where I'm looking but avoid looking at anything much over fifteen yards if there's any pressure on the string:^)
Jesse lots of us have a different way of thinking about that. I am thinking one arrow in the spot I wanted to put it is also a pretty good measure of accuracy.
One arrow shooting between trees while bending way over to get under the branches and leaves yet still get to the target, and hitting it where you were wanting to, is a good measure of accuracy.
Three arrows or twelve arrows shows repeatability, but I typically only get to shoot one anyway.
Just another point of view.
ChuckC
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
How many times then, in a hunting situation, can you use your "form".
Me thinks you should change angles and stance each and every shot. Groups are good for field archery but not much use for bowhunters.
Bingo Biggister hit it right on the head :clapper:
I haven't been to a lot of shoots, but I don't think many of those 2" group guys were there. At least I didn't see them.
Reparrow man
You might get what Biggie calls a "deflection", if you don't alter your form when needed.
QuoteWhats form? I shoot lots of grond squirrels and most shots are at 20-40 even 50 . If you wait till you have that perfect 10-15 yard shot your never going to shoot at one. I should say. (I try to shoot lots of ground squirrels) Why shoot at six yards ? Good poll.
I shoot a 4 feet out to 35 yds for practice. just because i missed a turkey at about 6 feet.
If only my hunting partner hadn't seen the shot.
Well somtimes i get 3 or 4 in a group. But i only shoot one deer out of the goup. :biglaugh:
Depends on how many arrows I shoot...lol I have more fun and less accuracy shooting out at 60 yds.
God bless
I don't shoot groups and don't care. I just want 1 good arrow that is red from end to end, with a matching trail on the ground!
QuoteOriginally posted by Zbearclaw:
The key, for a bowhunter, is to put the first arrow into the vitals every time.
Groups don't help that in my opinion when it comes to confidence in the woods.
Actually, it helps my confidence immensely. Yes, as a bowhunter it's the first shot that counts. But if I can put the first arrow into the mark, followed by the second, third, fourth, and fifth, then I know that the first was skill instead of luck. There are a lot of times in bowhunting where I don't mind relying on luck—whether or not an animal will show up, what trail it will use—but making a shot isn't one of them. Shooting groups gives me the confidence I need; other people find different ways of getting there. Whatever works, do it.
The questions was groups size at given range, not how do you practice for hunting or what do you think of groups. I agree the best hunting practice is one arrow shots at all different ranges and conditions, but that was not the nature of the post.
He is looking to set some measure of accuracy that can be commonly used as a basis to gauge his progress. So all the post about one arrow and all kinds of positions and distances are really not helping answer his question.
So for those with an aversion to shooting groups, how about listing what your average 5-6 shots tends to be for a group if you kept track of them as you shoot at those different ranges? You don't have to shoot all your arrows at one time to figure out what your group would be if you kept track of where you arrow hits.
Well then I tend to shoot one hole groups.
ChuckC
I am a big fan of shooting groups in fact I panic if I dont shoot great groups out to 40yards . Whats great? depends on the shooter. I work on group shooting about 10 hours a week and shoot one arrow field rounds from hunting like positions 2-3 hrs a week, and shoot as many 3ds as I can
Accuracy (distance from target a shot falls) and precision (how close shots are together with no respect to target) are two different measures. I think a clear understanding of them is critical in this discussion. How they relate to effectiveness is open for debate, personally They are peas in a pod to me but I don't get worked up about groups. Mostly I pay attention to them when limiting my range in the woods. Do I practice to shoot groups, nope. I just listen to what they tell me I can morally try on game a have deep respect for.
just as well i voted. it keeps the average from getting to high. :saywhat:
my hat is off to the one voter who can robinhood at 30 yards. :notworthy: :notworthy:
At 35 yards my arrows are within 4 inches (left, right, above or under) from the centerkill
Well at 30 yards, hmmm... i trying to get closer :goldtooth:
You talking about my INTERNET groups.....or my ACTUAL groups?
lol....
I'd say I'm BELOW average.
My grouping is 2"-3" out to about 18 yards. After that, I tend to gain an inch or so with every couple yards. I shot 3 arrow groups as many of you others. I also find that my first arrow of the day at 30 yards or closer almost always hits real close to home.
It's a hunter thing!
You talking about my INTERNET groups.....or my ACTUAL groups?
:biglaugh: :biglaugh:
group size depends on how many arrows are in the group.Most folks here don't shoot the 300 round where ALL 60 arrows count.More arrows means there's more chance of an oop's and many folks don't count that even though it'd count on game
How often do ya use form when hunting??come on biggie you use it every single time if ya expect to hit what your shooting at with any kind of confidence.Even bent over backwards requires a fella to reach full draw anchor and execute a consitant release.
short draw or anchoring 2" away from your face or under you chin vs what ya normally do will only lead to disaster sooner or later...form is still required to shoot under a low hanging branch or around the back side of a tree same as standing on the line shootin paper
oddly the best shots on paper tend to be the best shots on game too go figure :thumbsup: :campfire:
I'm new so my groups get fairly brutal after 12 yards.
Swampbuck...NOPE (big NOPE) I've killed scores of animals at 3/4 draw and never come near my anchor point. For me it's instinctive. Trying to turn your self into a shooting machine is for target archers.
Biggie, if the plan is to consistently hit what you're shooting at we're all target archers. It's immaterial whether the target is a 1" spot on a target face, a pie plate on a bale, a leaf on the ground, or a deer or pig. They're all "targets". Consistency from shot to shot will always yield the best results and that requires repeatable form. Consistent form (draw, anchor, release) should not hinder what you can do on unorthodox shots presented while hunting.
I lack consistency and as such miss more than I should, but it is something I strive for. I don't do it by shooting groups on a target face but by doing a lot of roving, shooting a single arrow at different size targets, at different ranges, in varying terrain.
Glad it's works out for ya Big :bigsmyl: I guess from 5' a fella could get away with 3/4 draw I'm just not that lucky and try hard to hit a consitant anchor reguardless if I,m standing straight up or hunched over and yea I've tried the bent over backwards shot it isn,t to hard but I still hit full draw...hopefully :biglaugh:
Yeah, Tom I guess it's what works for each of us. I know Mussato is a good shot even though he won't admit it.
I prolly should try to hit anchor every time, but if I'm thinking about that, my natural instinctive ability is compromised. Repetition can't make me do what is physically impossible either. Leaning around a tree makes it immpossible to reach anchor. If it screws up your "form" what happens to the arrow then?
"If it screws up your "form" what happens to the arrow then?"
Then you pull a Mussatto and miss. No big deal, just go find another target. :)
"Repetition can't make me do what is physically impossible either."
Biggie, the older I get the more things I find physically impossible. Still fun in the trying though.
What I lack in consistency, I make up for with a poor release and a floating anchor.
I recall taking a shot while standing on my Rt foot 10' up a pine tree,my lft legt wrapped around the trunk and my foot hooked so I could lean out and clear a tree in front...
My bow arm is still extended pushing into the target,my shoulders still squared up and at anchor my elbow is behind the arrow all lined up AKA proper form ,at least up top
after a few thousand times ya don,t even think about it but it should still be there
Now if only I could make mine as consitant as I'd like :biglaugh: Have FUN guys !! ;)
"Biggie, the older I get the more things I find physically impossible. Still fun in the trying though."
HahahaHaah...yup!
At 24 i start doing a scatter shot effect. inside that i do pretty decent 5 _ 6 in.
What Jason said, pretty well sums it up.
I saw a similar question on another site. By the time I got to page 3, I had put boots on and get a shovel just to get out. I've been to a lot of shoots and shot with some fantastic shooters, and what is written online just doesn't jive with what I see in the real world.