When doing this method of tuning, do I cant my bow like always or do I shoot it straight up and down? Any other tips. I am going to try it in the morning.
Shoot like you would normally. make sure that your relase is consitent.
I usually cant the bow like I normally shoot and cant the results the same. Basically the bow tips define up and down for me. I shoot multiple groups before I make decisions, and when I am close to tuned I do multiple sessions. What I mean is, I always write down how the shooting is going one day, then if the next day or twos shooting results agree, I make the change. But I am a perfectionist or so I have been told.
OL says hold the bow straight up and down while tuning.
I do like Greg. If I try to hold my bow straight up, my draw length seems to change somewhat which screws up the results for me. Maybe not the best way, but i do manage to get my arrows flying straight this way.
Straight up and down-even if you don't normally shoot like that.
Can someone point me to where OL said the bow should be vertical? I just can't see the release being the same for someone who is used to canting the bow when they don't cant it. Thanks
Man I am ready to give up. It is hard to do this as a rookie who is just trying to hit the target in the same area. I am suppose to shoot groups, heck my groups with fletched arrows looks like a shotgun pattern. How close can I get to the target to make this tuning effective? I am comfortable shooting at 12-15 yards.
I group tune 3 arrows and two shaft at 10 yards--been doing it that way for years. You should easily find your nocking point, then the rest will fall in place quickly.
No cant. Straight up and down.
It makes no sense to me to tune while holding the bow differently. No sense at all, especially for a beginner. It can change your bow hand grip and your release. The dynamics are too different, and that can't be good. Shoot the way you're most comfortable holding the bow. For some it's vertical, for some it's not.
Wisconsinteacher, I suggest you try bareshafting at close range first, and look for nock left or right, high or low. I do it at under 10 yards, and don't worry about accuracy, just how the arrow hits. Shoot multiple shots to be sure you get a decent reading before changing anything. Your form and release have to have some consistency, and multiple shots will average out the flawed shots. OL's method is good for someone with more experience, I think, but for someone who can't group yet, closer is better. You can always do it OL's way later for finer tuning. You have to get your spine close before you can group.
Others may disagree, but it works for me, and has for decades.
Don't give up Wisconsinteacher. 10 yards is good enough to start. Even if your groupings aren't tight you can tell the trend. If 90% of the time your bareshafts are right of the fletched then you have a good indicator. Just take it slow and steady. With great form, someone might be able to tune in an hour or 2. With my form, I can take a week to a month. Actually. I never finish tuning. I always shoot a bareshaft with my fletched shafts and see if there is any indication of change needed. I even change which arrow is my bareshaft from time to time.
You should shoot like normal. If you cant the bow then tune that way. Shoot some broadheads and feild tips of the same weight and see how they fly. If broadheads fly good then you are good. Don't make it complicated and relax and just have fun. Shoot at 5 yards till you start busting nocks then back up. Get your form down first and the rest will come. :campfire:
Wisconsinteacher, As new as you are to the sport I wouldn't stress so much over tuning. Get some 40/45# woodies and just practice shooting to improve your form and accuracy. The only tuning I would do now if I were you is just to get my nock point set. Once you've developed consistent form and accuracy then you can worry about getting fine tuned.
Some of you are suggesting that if an archer shoots with a cant, he should do so while bare shaft group tuning. IMO, it ain't gonna work for a professed newbie. By group tuning you're wanting to first: find the correct nock height; second: the proper spine. Canting the bow will give false information. The vertical bow will give correct and immediate readings to tune without misleading variables for a newbie. You can always go back to canting after you're tuned.
I agree completely with Greg Owen. No matter how you shoot, at close range, over time, you will see a pattern develop, then tune to the pattern.
I might also suggest, while agreeing with Kenneth, that trying to bare shaft tune without the confidence in your shooting ability to pull it off may be an exercise in futility. You might be better served to work on your form and shooting for a while.
Im not a beginner but I dont see any difference in tuning my arrows with a little cant vs straight up and down. I guess if you cant or lean with incorrect form it could change your draw lenght a little, but if you want a bullet hole in paper they make compounds for that.
Gee Whiz! It never hurts for an arrow to stabilize quicker and fly true as it goes through the chest of deer. I never paper tune, but I do shoot through a lot of hide. It's all part of being a hunting archer, and it's all good.
I think Jim is giving VERY good advice. Get the bare shafts and the fletched shafts shooting together at 10 yards to start and move back to fine tune. When you think you are goo, shoot fletched field points and broadheads and fine tune with them. I think you'll find when that happens, you'll have a bullet hole if you shoot thru paper.
QuoteOriginally posted by Don Stokes:
It makes no sense to me to tune while holding the bow differently. No sense at all, especially for a beginner. It can change your bow hand grip and your release. The dynamics are too different, and that can't be good. Shoot the way you're most comfortable holding the bow. For some it's vertical, for some it's not.
Absolutely. Why would you tune your bow to a shooting style you don't use?
For you canting tuners... a question. A canting "newbie" is trying to bare shaft group tune. His bare shafts fly to the right and a bit high. What does that tell him?
For me, a right hander, that would mean raise the nocking point. I deal with the nocking point first. Also, it appears the arrow would be slightly weak. The indicators are the same, you just need to rotate the horizontal and vertical axises by the amount of the cant.
YOU don't count Greg. :^) I've read your posts and you're NOT a newbie.
Well to be honest if someone is new enough they have trouble hitting the targets any tuning is a waste of time. jmho
You can learn to shoot and even mismatched shafts of the wrong spine will group together at the close ranges most of us shoot.I say spend more time shooting whatever arrow you have for a while before worring about trying to really tune a bow.Chances are you are not going to read things right and get a good tune anyway.Wait untill you at least have some sense of consitancy before going farther.Sometimes it is just best not to put the horse in front of the cart. ;) jmho
QuoteOriginally posted by Jim Casto Jr:
For you canting tuners... a question. A canting "newbie" is trying to bare shaft group tune. His bare shafts fly to the right and a bit high. What does that tell him?
Exactly the same thing that high and right tells you if you aren't canting.
You tune the bow to match your equipment and your shooting style. Tuning to match a style you don't use will net you an untuned bow as soon as you go back to your normal shooting habits.
QuoteOriginally posted by James Wrenn:
Well to be honest if someone is new enough they have trouble hitting the targets any tuning is a waste of time. jmho
You can learn to shoot and even mismatched shafts of the wrong spine will group together at the close ranges most of us shoot.I say spend more time shooting whatever arrow you have for a while before worring about trying to really tune a bow.Chances are you are not going to read things right and get a good tune anyway.Wait untill you at least have some sense of consitancy before going farther.Sometimes it is just best not to put the horse in front of the cart. ;) jmho
Very good advice here.
Shoot the bow upside down if you want.
The point of this "method" as described by O.L. and on A&H Archery's web page is to study your groupings (field point bareshafts compared to fletched field points or fletched field points compared to fletched broadheads).
Yes, the more consistent you are in your shooting form, the smaller your grouping will be to read. Less consistent shooting (or less experienced shooter) will simply yield a larger group but A PATTERN WILL EMERGE none the less. That is the beauty of this method!
It is rather objective when you understand the process. And what better way for new shooters as well as (clearing throat here) experienced shooters to take our game to the next level than a well tuned arrow/bow?
Straight up and down was just part of the directions that I got. Don't know why, but since I was using his directions, that's what I did. That's what was asked and that is the answer.
I follow OL's tuning method as given here
http://bowmaker.net/index2.htm
I will re-read but I don't remember anything about not to cant the bow. I usually shoot for a while and when I notice a trend, I go look up the webpage and figure out what to try. It's all about trends. Sometimes a trend shows up in a few shots, sometimes its 100 shots over a few days. I find improving myself to be fun and challenging. Now if I only owned a bow I'd be set.
Get some advice on some arrows that are close to your set up. Shoot them and have fun. Grouping will come with practice.
Learn to walk before hyou run.
OL does say not to cant the bow while tuning.I have been using his method also and it has helped me a lot.
Can you point me to where he says it? Or was it in a post somewhere that you saw it? I am just surprised it is not on his tuning webpage.
Get some AD Trads and "fogetaboutit"!!
I cant as the hunting situation calls for or about enough to get the bow out of my site picture. Byron Ferguson's book "Become the Arrow" or something like that, uses cant for tuning to make the left/right adjustment to your shots. I would not want that going on while I was shooting differing cants so tuning with a vertical bows to get the left/right perfect sounds appropriate to me and seems to work well.
I cant the same amount all the time while tuning, and it doesn't make any difference in the left/right, up/down of the nock. I tune for a nearly straight-in nock at less than 10 yards, just the barest fudge nock high. After this process, my broadheads and field points shoot to the same point at all reasonable ranges, which is my objective. It's the method taught to me by Dan Quillian, and I've never found a need to alter it. It works, and I get clean, perfect arrow flight when I've done it right. In the field, if I need to make a shot with more or less cant, I compensate by aiming slightly left for more cant, and vice versa, shooting RH.
I have a full set of bare shafts set up with 125 grain points in various lengths that I made up when I was in the shaft business and regularly setting up customers at shoots. If I tune just slightly stiff with the 125's, 160's shoot perfectly. 190's will always require a full spine class increase, or a shaft an inch shorter. I don't shoot heads over 190 grains. My finished 28 1/4" arrows for my 50-60# bows are usually 600-650 grains, 10-12 grains/inch with 5" LW shield three-fletch, usually around 17% FOC. That's what shoots best for me, and penetration has never been a problem.
Within those limits, I tune my bows to shoot to the same point so I don't have to change my sight picture when I change bows and arrows. If a bow shoots differently from the others, I adjust spine and amount off-center until it shoots with the others and bare-shafts straight. I shoot the same length arrows regardless of my draw length, which varies by an inch or so depending on the bow handle design. It simplifies things, so I don't have to think when I shoot, no matter which bow I choose that day.
of course you can cant your bow. i can't see any point in tuning holding vertical if you don't normally hunt like that. all you have to realise is that you have to interpret your results according to your cant. if you cant your bow you just have to move the elevation and windage axis of your target to match your cant.
I can not find any mention of cant or not to cant in OL tuning paper. I never worried about it and his method works for me.
Wisconsinteacher,
Even for an experienced archer tuning and aiming can be overwhelming and intimidating. I converted from compounds about three years ago and struggled with what aiming method to use and how to tune arrows, etc. I bought every video I could find on technique, and one of them was by Rick Welch. I was intrigued by his method, and somehow my wife picked up on my frustration with the whole thing, and for my birthday arranged for me to attend Rick's shooting school in Arkansas (I have a wonderful wife!) Those two days of one-on-one instruction made all the difference. I two hours Rick had shooting better than I ever had! He teaches a simple, systematic, repeatable method of tuning your bow to shoot where you look. It removes all the mystery and gives you the tools to analyze and correct mistakes. I only wish I had known about it two years sooner!
Just put a cross on your target with the vertical axis of the cross at the same degree as your cant, then the horizontal axis at 90 degrees to that.
Group at the centre of the cross and interpret your tuning in relation to the cross and that will be in relation to your canted bow.
Newbie or not, it'll work.
I figured I would put my 2 cents in.
I've had limited success with bareshafting longbows mainly because of paradox and limited space.
I now paper tune with fletchings at 15' until I get a bullet hole-Once I get there I shoot at one inch targets on my target bag at 8 to 10 yds and
have no trouble hitting them 8 out of ten times.
My tuning holds up outdoors with broadheads.
This to me is alot more convenient than having to drive for miles to find a range or woods where I can tune my bows. I can run down the basement any time I like! The only cost is freezer paper for tuning.I will on occasion tweak it at 30 yds outdoors.Usually it's just a slight change in nock position. Good Hunting!
I've been using the method as described by O.L. Adcock for about a year and a half now with 5 different bows and I shoot with a cant all the time. To me, it's the simplest and quickest method of tuning my setup.
Stick with it and then take a break from it for a couple of days if it gets frustrating. You'd be surprised how much difference a little break can make as it allows you to be fresh and have more of a clear mind and be better focused.