I was looking thru my new Kustom King catalog and I saw they have some new "German Mountain pine shafting" for arrow making. I tried a search here and didn't turn up anything. Has anybody tried them yet? If so, what did ya think? Is this the "chundoo" we used to get? Thanks for your time.
good question - who's gonna be the bold and daring tester to order out a dozen? :D
Not yet, but I might, the price is right. Cant be any weaker than cedar, if there good round shafts I'll try them, nothin' more irritating than a egg shaped shaft.
Nope its not Chundoo
Eric
aw geez, now i gotta go order out some :D test report forthcoming in a week or so ....
just got in a dozen braveheart surewood fir shafts that are REALLY REALLY NICE.
Shot the mountain pine, they are lightweight(about 10 % lighter than cedar)inconsistend in spine and weight and are not very durable.
Most european archers who shoot wood arrows buy in the US.
I saw the price to and you can't find to many prices that low.
not yet on the kk website, just in their print catalog.
I think this is the manufacturer/distributer...
https://www.bogensport-bodnik.de/cgi-bin/WebObjects/seat1WAWI.woa/2/wo/Cy2000kv600Xm30027/1.10.3.7.1.24.2.9
"Cant be any weaker than cedar,"
Cedar, my friend, is not weak...it is one of the strongest arrow shafts available, if you keep things relative...strength to weight for archery use. Cedar is still available and has been used over a hundred years, so I would suggest that it's still here for a good reason. I still have half a dozen, of a dozen I made up five years ago, and they still shoot well.
I don't know why the pine wouldn't work as long as it is consistent from shaft to shaft; resinous soft woods seem to make better shaft material than most hardwoods....at least easier to work with.
"Cedar, my friend, is not weak...it is one of the strongest arrow shafts available..."
Stronger than what?
Fir...Nope
Spruce...Nope
Lodgepole Pine...Nope
Yes, it does make a great arrow just not very durable. It is popular because forever thats all there was readily available in wood arrows. Cheap to process because its already dead, usually already down, so it doesnt have to be dried, goes straight from the forest to the shaft mill. Just happened to make a pretty good arrow too.
Eric
I can't understand where some say that cedar is not durable. What are you trying to do with them, knock down walls? I have shot cedar for over 15 years and have found that they are as durable as I would expect any wood to be when I do my part behind the arrow. Aluminum bends and/or snaps and carbonies crack and/or shatter. An arrow is meant to hit what you are aiming at, I think cedar does this as well as any. Keep shooting the other stuff, that will leave more cedar for me.
kk is already outta stock of the german pine, new shipment due in a month or so.
i agree with eric. i love everything about cedar shafts but their consistent lack of overall strength/durability, and lower weight (for a hunting arrow). perhaps that durability issue was why they were so often footed. i've found ash, birch, larch, fir, poplar, and other woods are just tougher for a hunting or roving arrow
It must be a wood that is foreign and that must reflect the price! I spotted this shaft in the catalog earlier this week and called em bout it! They will have them available in bout 4 weeks! I usually try a new type of shafting by making them into fluflu's, if they can survive my stump shooting sessions then they are worthy! I'll test em if the regime here wants me to!
The company that makes the shafts is Bearpaw. I had a friend pick me up some of their field points. I really like them. They screw into the point and theres no tapering. You just cut the shaft straight off and crimp the edge of the shaft and slide the shaft into the point. When the shaft gets down inside, turn the shaft and it locks in place.
Darren
I was just wondering if anybody has tried them now and what they think of them?
I don't have any trouble with my POC. Hap
True story, the first year I tried shooting trad, I of course shot cedars. I broke them on stumps, rocks, target frames, glancing shots on saplings, you name it. Looking for a stronger shaft I tried maples from Silent Pond and them things seemed about bullet proof but at my 32" draw weighed about 800 grains and past 20 yards really dropped. Shot them for about two or three seasons then tried cedars again and suddenly my cedars were just as strong as my maples for some reason. Shot all year and maybe broke one arrow. I couldn't figure it out. Plus, after shooting the heavy maples the cedars looked like they were wicked fast in comparison and of course cedar stays straight better than about anything I've tried to date especially the hardwoods like maple, ash and hickory. So
So what was the deal with the cedars being bad the first time and great the second? Eventually I figured it out... I was simply hitting the target instead of trees, rocks etc. like I did my first year. As for weight, at my long draw cedar gives me about exactly the weight I want but I understand that people with draws 28 and under often come up lighter than they want.
This year I'm trying some Douglas Fir and they are real nice but a lot heavier than cedar. Still lighter than maple so maybe they'll be reasonably fast AND hit like a freight train eh?
As for the German Pine shafts, I have no idea. My guess would be something like chundoo or norway pine but that's only a guess. The one time I tried chundoo I was VERY disappointed. Crooked as heck and grain runout all over the place but maybe I got a bad batch.
Let us know what you think if you try them out.
It's hard for me to complain about cedars, I have some shafts that are 15 years old and I still shoot them on a regular basis! I like Cedar!
I shoot wood only-about half Cedar and half Fir. Both are great and that German Pine would havta' be greater still to get my attention.
Personally I am only interested in top quality shafting and won't compromise for price, the arrow is as important as the bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by SuperK:
I was just wondering if anybody has tried them now and what they think of them?
X2. Noticed they're still $22.95/dz at Kustom King and was wondering if anyone has tried them yet and can give us a review.
I just ordered a doz 5/16 30-35 shafts for my Dad's old HH longbow. It will be my first attempt at arrow making.
Train wreck soon to follow ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by Dave Bulla:
So what was the deal with the cedars being bad the first time and great the second? Eventually I figured it out... I was simply hitting the target instead of trees, rocks etc. like I did my first year.
Bingo... :D I had similar experiences with cedar. Although I shoot Doug Fir now (wanted to bump up in weight), I think cedars a great shaft, and don't really break any more of them than I do anything else.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bud B.:
I just ordered a doz 5/16 30-35 shafts for my Dad's old HH longbow. It will be my first attempt at arrow making.
Train wreck soon to follow ;)
Lol. Yeah, I'm considerig them for my first attempt at arrow making also. Please let us know how it goes and how they shoot. And post pics when you finish makng them.
If you break cedars, you get to smell them! I am finding that bargain shafts are not always cost efficient. By the time you get the other components stuck on, you might as well pay the price for quality sticks.
Some great shafts out there-fir, cedar, etc.
Hello everybody,
please just be cautious with bear-paw products of Mr. Bodnik. He hasn't got the best reputation in germany. His way of advertising is much better then the products behind.
If you want to know more, you can pm me, I won't say more in public.
Didn't want to insult anybody, just personal experience.
Shoot straight,
Bernd
My order arrived today. Of the twelve shafts two were roll straight. Upon inspecting one of the more warped ones I reached to put pressure on it and it snapped. It appears to have a check crack/split possibly from the kiln process. There's no way the pressure I put on it would have broken the shaft unless it was compromised prior to handling. It appears a check crack along the grain of the wood was present. I can possibly make a youth arrow.
Will post more when I have time to deal with my first arrow making attempt. Work and a chest cold have me whooped.
So far I have nothing to compare my experience to except I have old wooden arrow shafts I've straightened and didn't even have this type of thing happen.
Thanks Bud....keep us posted.
I have a dozen German shafts in the garage that I ordered from KK earlier this summer. After reading this thread, I decided to take a closer look at them. They are 11/32" diameter. I checked the spine on my Ace tester and they spined at about 75# (which is ok for me), but they were the heaviest advertised at 65-70#. They are all very closely spined. What KK doesn't metnion in their description is whether they are weight matched. Apparently they are not because my full length (32-1/4") shafts have a large weight range, between 450 and 575 grains each. I will be lucky to match them in 3 or 4 to a group based on weight. I am not super picky with arrows but I definitely like to hunt with closely matched sets of a 1/2 dozen or so. Otherwise the grain was very straight in all but a couple of the shafts and the shafts were very straight as I sighted down them.
I will probably stain, seal, and fletch them on some cold day later this winter (although yesterday morning it was -13F) and try them out when the snow melts in the spring.
Mike
weight matters little vs spine at the ranges we shoot
You're always better off paying a little extra for good shafts. Why put in all that work and then have an arrow that is sub-par. Gary
Grain seems OK for all the shafts. Good and straight. I just need to work on straightening them.
I made up a 27 3/4" arrow last night out of the broken shaft. I have one of those twist type taper tools. These shafts may be slightly under 5/16. I was able to get good straight tapers.
Got the nock on with the grain and fletched it last night. Roll test after the break was perfect. Eyeballing it was good also. After fletching it (not the prettiest first attempt) I let it set all night. I just stepped out into the frigid air and shot it from my 66" #40 longbow. My draw is 29" I had to shorten it a bit due to the short arrow.
From porchlight I saw a flight path that was a blurr of white (fletching is all white) with no wobble whatsoever. Neither up/down or left/right. You hear the " flew like a dart" comment, well, I'll say it too. As light as that arrow is it did fly like a dart. I was very pleasantly surprised.
More to come later....
I arrived home from work about 30 minutes ago. I was able to shoot the single arrow several more times under a floodlight. Still good reports.
When I make up the others I'll post back but it'll be a while.
Off shopping now with the wife....my debit card is squealing.......
When they were still cutting POC the shafts were great- heavier than the dead wood we get today- consistent, straight grained etc.
I still have and treasure many dozen 70-75 Acme Premium dozens I have in my basement- bundled in bakers' dozens, rubber banded, kept dry...and striaghtened once a year.
I'm like Gollum with my Acme premiums...my preciouses!!!!!
You are a blessed man, Ray. Mine are pretty much gone, save a few. :(
Working on them now....
Here's the one that broke and I made a shorter arrow out of it.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/budsstuff001.jpg)
Cresting between the stain.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/budsstuff002.jpg)
Stained, sprayed, and sealed
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/budsstuff003.jpg)
10 yard group with three plus the shorty arrow.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Equismith/budsstuff.jpg)
I don't have a scale to weight them. The shafts are full length at 32". They will be used in a 1950s vintage Howard Hill style bow that pulls around 30# or so.
I have no issues with these shafts. The one that snapped on me was just one of those things. After staining them and clearcoating them they straightened up some. Only a few touch up straightenings here and there. We'll see how they hold up.