Hello folks,
I would like some sage advice please.
What Easton spine would you use for a 65# (62")recurve? I have been experimenting with 2117s and 2219s and both seem to perform fine. With the 2219s I cannot help but feel that the spine may be too stiff. With a centre-shot bow, it is really hard to tell. There is a little stenciled note on my 2219 legacys that states: "Longbow 70 - 75#".
I know, I know a lot of you guys are going to say: "if it works, then just be happy". But I would be interested to know what spine YOU would use.
Also, how hard and fast is the 9-10 grain per pound of draw weight rule? How much wiggle room on either side does one have in this regard?
Finally, I have been trying to up the FOC (I have fallen into this latest thing) but increasing the FOC with the addition of weights, also pushes my arrow weight beyong the 650 grain maximum.
Every time I think I have the details of this racket figured out, I don't.
I love details folks so don't be shy!
Thanks
Robert
"longbow" on the Legacys doesn't mean a thing, don't let it confuse you. I have some too with the imitation wood grain pattern. With a center shot or past center and the right weight point I suppose you could make the 2219 work. Believe its to heavy though. Tinker with stu millers dynamic spine calculator, it will get you very close.
Rusty
2216 maybe :rolleyes:
I agree that you should try 2216's. 9-10 gpp is a good hunting range. I assume you're not target shooting with a 65# bow? If you were, you might want to drop down into the 8 gpp range to get a flatter shooting arrow. Some folks like to go more than 9-10 gpp for hunting to get more penetration. Not me, though, I like to keep the arrow weight down so I can place the arrow where I want it to go.
Trying the 2216's is good advice, but if you really want EFOC without a super heavy arrow, you'll probably have to go to carbons. I never can achieve it in aluminum arrows without a 650-700 grain arrow. Mark
Friends don't let friends shoot alumninum. Just Kidding! You are going to end up with carbons if you want efoc and under 650 grains. And it will still be tough to get.
for all practical and efficient purposes, carbons are the way to go.
alums are mid 20th century nostalgia, but no where as durable and consistent as carbons.
and of course, woodies and cane are, well, the shaft of choice since the beginning of neolithic archery times many eons ago .... :)
With a 65 lb draw weight, fifty grains of arrow weight either way will be difficult to notice in most situations. 600 to 700 grains of arrow @65lbs is great.
A 2219 will work fine if you leave it a tad long.
A 2216 will work as well. Nine or ten grains per pound is very common, but not set in stone.
My experience has always been, when you get into heavier draw weights (60+ lbs) an arrow in 10 grain per pound range works best. It is able to absorb the energy the bow has to offer. A little more doesn`t hurt either.
You will find, that your 65 lb bow will be happy to bend your aluminum arrows at every opportunity. Carbons are not totally indestructible, but they WILL withstand a pounding better than the heaviest aluminum out there.
If you try carbons, don`t be afraid to put some weight on the front of them.
Don`t worry so much about crossing the 650 grain mark. I would stick with the 2219`s, and play with the length until they can shoot straight with a big unvented two blade broadhead. If you end up with an arrow at or above 700 grains, enjoy the horsepower. :D
I love and dig that mid 20th century aluminum arrow nostalgia. ;) It's all I've ever used during the last 45+ years. :D
You guys are da best!
First a few comments then more questions:
3 votes for 2216s. Worth looking into.
McDave: I am stump shooting with these Lincoln logs using a bunny-buster over a steel blunt. The idea being to duplicate, as close as possible, the weight and balance of a broadhead. This seems to work fine for practice for the real thing.
A lot of you hit the nail on the head about FOC, aluminum arrows and total weight. I think I will have a very hard time getting all three lined up. Carbons seem to be the way to go but I am reluctant to make that crossover for a number of reasons which I won't go into here.
Rob: I love mid-century nostalgia in all of it's glorious forms. I am typing this note out from a genuine USAF battleship-grey steel "tanker desk" that was manufactured in the 50's. I picked it up for 5 bucks at a government surplus sale. Took four men to move it into my house. They don't make furniture like that anymore!!
Bonebuster: right now I am using 30" inch arrows. My draw length is 28". In theory, my arrow is too long but I like to keep a bit of distance between flesh and sharp edges. How long do you reckon the 2219s should be to obtain that magic spot? As it is, the 2219s seem to fly straight and true. Maybe I am getting too wound around the axle about theory and should just stick to what seems to work. Still, one has to start in the ballpark.
Keep the comments coming gents. This is all higher education for me and I appreciate the advice.
Robert
What about a 2018?
QuoteOriginally posted by Baffinland Archer:
... Carbons seem to be the way to go but I am reluctant to make that crossover for a number of reasons which I won't go into here....
since you mentioned roving, that's where carbons can really shine. after spending way too much time and money on carbon shaft selection, i realized the answer was to drop down lots in spine. that's pretty much the key. carbons will be VERY easy to adjust mass weight (gpp) and balance (foc). and they don't dent or bend like those 50's nostalgia alums. :D
for a 65# stikbow, ad trads (one size fits all! yes!) or those cheap beman ics bowhunters in 400 size, are a good carb selections.
Just for kicks, if you're using aluminum arrows and haven't used Stu Miller's Dynamic Spine Calculator program, try it. Just plug in all the variables for the different arrow spines you're playing around with such as 2117, 2216, 2219, etc; and it should give you a very tunable arrow. You just need Excel or Open Office to automatically open the DSC program.
http://heilakka.com/stumiller/
Well, I love 'em all! Well that is 2117, 2216, and 2219! I would lean towards 2216, also.
Now, are you for sure your pulling 65lbs? Not questioning your Manhood, just things to make sure of.
Just put a 2219 on my Adams scale, about 96-97 spine.
Well, I too love nostalgia. And as far as arrow materials go, if I had them at my disposal, River cane! Carbon, not for me.
Folks don't seem to give God enough credit for creating a natural "Tapered shaft".
If you like the flight of the 2219, I would try some heavier point weight like the other gentlemen stated. Keep us informed!
Carbons not only shine during roving, they also glance sideways, pop nocks, and mushroom on the end.
:saywhat: :campfire:
Yes, and when they glance sideways they usually get wiped out :rolleyes:
I shoot 2020's out of 60+@30" recurves and they work great.
I always felt the 2216's and 19's a bit stiff and too heavy..
So far I have avoided spending "Way too much" on shaft selection with the new breed of shafts.
I guess I am old school and feel if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Plus I still have about 5 dozen AO shafts just waiting to take wing and fly.
I have shot a lot of 2117's, 2216's, and 2219's. You omitted it from your choices, but 2216's fall in the middle and I shoot them a lot in similar bow weights...IMO you should give 'em a try.
Typically, I advocate aluminum for a number of reasons...but I really think they offer the best training medium for learning how to hand straighten a shaft...which becomes a must with woods. Enjoy, Rick.
quote:
Originally posted by George D. Stout:
Carbons not only shine during roving, they also glance sideways, pop nocks, and mushroom on the end.
:readit:
there is NO WAY that any 'normal' shaft material can be guaranteed to survive the rigors of roving.
that said, and understanding the physical property differences between wood, aluminum and carbon, my money-in-the-bank bet is on carbons for going the longest distance. if you think otherwise, you need to either stop drinking the curmudgeon kool aid or do yer own testing.
now tonkin cane, on the other hand ......
You did not give your draw length, I shoot 65# with 29.5+ draw length shoot 30.5in aluminun arrows maybe nostalgia but some of these arrows are over 20 years old and have taken more than 3 deer and are daily shooters!I tried 2216,2219 both were weak.A 2317 is the only arrow I can get to bare shaft perfectly out of my bw bow and with dozens of them I don't see any reason to switch to carbons.Charts may give good suggestions, thats a start but trial and error with different broadheads, fleching clearance ,length. I happen to like heavy arrows 10 grns per # of bow weight I am not a target archer I practice at ranges I plan to shoot at then I hunt.but I am new at trad archery only 40 years.And I am still learning. Good luck on finding your ideal arrow and when you do try and wear them out I havent but I will keep on trying!
Since Robert asked about which aluminum arrow to use, I think I'll just do something crazy and answer his question, as have a few others. ;)
I'd go with a 2216.
I have a Jerry Hill 65# longbow and I am using the Legacy Easton shafts 2018. 28" and using 5 1/2" feathers with a 125 grain field point. They fly stupendous, great, lovely, etc. I can't get over how nice these arrows are.
Joshua
P.S When you crest them they are beautiful!
Gents,
The suggestions keep pouring in and I keep absorbing and processing. Many thanks.
To answer a few questions, I am drawing about 28" or 27 3/4, based on my high tech draw length indicator: a clothespin and a measuring tape.
Now I should explain that my choice of draw weight is not based on any macho man stuff. It is purely practical. I hunt on foot (well, with my usual luck, mostly rove on foot) in country where it is quite possible to run into large hungry bears. Given Canada's asinine gun laws, having a handgun in my pack is not an option so my only weapon, unless I want to lug a shotgun around -- which I do not -- is my bow. Hence I wanted to have as much punch as I can comfortably pull. I hasten to add I am not out hunting bears (illegal up here for non-natives) but simply preparing in case I run into one and he takes an interest in me.
Night Wing, I downloaded and am playing with that program you suggested. That is cool stuff! Anyway, I plugged in some values and according to that program, 2219s are underspined; I should be using 2317s which agrees with what DG has suggested. Still, 2317 strikes me as way too heavy, but numbers don't lie.
I spent a good part of the afternoon and evening playing with my equipment. For example I switched broadhead inserts from 125 to 100 grain and removed the added PDP weights I had on the arrow insert. This got my total arrow weight at 710 grains with a 3% sacrifice in FOC. So I am down to 18% FOC, which is still pretty good. I was doing the same for my hammerheads, blunts and judo points: trying to get some balance between FOC and weight. I can't wait to get out and test this mess that I so carefully recorded on an excel spreadsheet.
And now I am sounding like a geek, so had best stop embarassing myself and shut up.
Robert
PS. Joshua: what kind of paint are you using to crest your aluminum arrows? Do you have to strip the existing paint?