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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Kyle Lancaster on February 25, 2010, 01:16:00 PM

Title: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Kyle Lancaster on February 25, 2010, 01:16:00 PM
What are your thoughts on supplemental feeding of deer in the winter? As many of you know, we've had record snowfalls in the Mid-Atlantic. 1 snowfall of 24" before Christmas and the second and third within a week dumped 42". At these times, I'm always worried about our local neighborhood deer herd. It's a record snowfall for them as well. Anyway, I've been putting out corn and some "deer protein pellets" at the rate of 5 gallons a day for the 6-16 deer that we've been seeing.  Should I?

Thanks,
Kyle
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: wvtradbow on February 25, 2010, 01:56:00 PM
Here's an interesting article that was in our local paper Sunday about this very thing...http://wvgazette.com/Outdoors/ScottShalaway/201002100727
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Kyle Lancaster on February 25, 2010, 02:24:00 PM
Thanks for forwarding that. I've heard that too, but I'm not sure that I agree. We live in the country near cornfields. As many know, a late picked or unpicked cornfield is a deer magnet in the winter. How would the author explain that?  Also, we feed beginning in Dec. when there are several cornfields still active. I've just begun to feed more since the heavy snows. Also, the deer seem to be staying in the 50 acres or so around the house. Oftentimes, they are bedding within view of the house. Also, there's available browse in the woods so I feel that we are supplementing and not substituting. Thanks,
Kyle
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Jack Denbow on February 25, 2010, 02:37:00 PM
Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries recommends not feeding deer. Here it is from their website.
http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/news/release.asp?id=186
Jack
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: BUFF on February 25, 2010, 03:02:00 PM
Being from Texas I cant understand why you wouldn"t feed them
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: mtnbow on February 25, 2010, 03:17:00 PM
I hunt in northern New Hampshire, and if it weren't for the locals feeding deer there wouldnt be any.Even with feeding a lot dont make it thru winter.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Kyle Lancaster on February 25, 2010, 03:19:00 PM
Jack,
PM sent.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: LKH on February 25, 2010, 03:58:00 PM
When you live in the north and get a bad winter, a lot of the deer are NOT supposed to make it through the winter.  It's part of what made them big to begin with.  

You run the risk of doing serious damage to the habitat within a mile or so of the feeding station.  

I was raised in Int'l Falls, MN and winterkill every 6-8 years was normal.  It's surprising, but within a few years they really bounce back.  It also gives the habitat a chance to recover.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: vermonster13 on February 25, 2010, 04:12:00 PM
There was a story on the news the other night about a town in NH near a deer yard. They had 50 car collisions with deer in January. Folks were putting food out for them and the deer were crossing the highway to get it. That is going to put a serious dent in the herd.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: on February 25, 2010, 04:26:00 PM
dont feed them corn, givem something good like hay, the best you can buy......
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: PhilNY on February 25, 2010, 05:03:00 PM
I know I will get his name wrong but Leonard LaRue III said the best way to feed a herd was to knock down some hemlocks or other evergreens so that they can feed naturally. I used to feed them myself but don't much anymore except to cut down some trees and they all get eaten up.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: LKH on February 25, 2010, 05:32:00 PM
Hay, good or bad, is a very poor idea.  It is just as likely to kill them as not.  It's one thing for them to get a little when they raid the stacks, it's another if that's all they are getting.  They're better off with nothing.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Orion on February 25, 2010, 05:34:00 PM
What are my thoughts on supplemental feeding in winter?  I don't do it.  I try to not interfere with the natural order of things.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: mjh on February 25, 2010, 05:37:00 PM
I agree with Orion on this one.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Matt Stuckey on February 25, 2010, 06:34:00 PM
Around here they will hardly touch a bale of hay.  They might pick a few leaves from the standing alfalfa, but they don't digest the well.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 25, 2010, 06:40:00 PM
corn will give them energy. at this time of year some places deer are just eating branches w/out any buds or leaves.

With out Us helping them thu the bad winters, We won't have that many around come the opening of deer season.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Hoser1268 on February 25, 2010, 06:46:00 PM
What about food plots? We put in 3 this year and I'm glad we did. We are getting pounded with snow and I think every deer in the county is eating our plots.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: wapitimike1 on February 25, 2010, 07:00:00 PM
Here's an issue with feeding deer. It takes several weeks for deer to build bacteria for digestion. They go from mast crop to brows and the bacteria changes for that food. Maple branches, pine, several barks etc. When you feed them it messes that up. If you don't continue to do it till spring. They can starve to death with a full stomach. They just don't have the time to change in the dead of winter.  That's the digs on that.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: razorback on February 25, 2010, 08:33:00 PM
Feed stations are also reported to transmit diseases within the herd more readily. When they have to look for food they are more spread out but when they come to a feed station they are concentraded and any disease will be passed around more of the animals.

Another report in the local paper, can't remember the author, stated that the area within 1/2 mile of a feed station could take upto 100years to recover properly from the pressure it recieves from deer browsing on it. The deer leave the feed station bed down, browse the local flora and then return to the feed station. they rarely leave the immediate area, thus putting much more pressure on it than is normal.

These along with what wapitimike said about the digestive ability of deer makes me think it is not a good idea. jm2cw
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: wvtradbow on February 25, 2010, 08:40:00 PM
That's what that article says,But that author got tons of mail about that and although they do know that corn hurts them this time of year  they just don't know how much corn it takes to be fatal...
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: BCWV on February 25, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
I've been feeding the same deer whole corn for 4 years on my place. Every year the same old doe and her little ones stay here and winter out. As the natural feed gets less more deer come with them. Now, the fawns from previous years are here with their young. We have 10 to 14 head every evening. The home deer will come to meet me when I go to feed them.
Then in the summer I growl about them eating my garden.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Killdeer on February 25, 2010, 09:27:00 PM
The heavy snows have done a number on the trees and shrubs here, breaking many and sending their tops to the ground. Free food, and the deer have been feeding on them. So, tough conditions bring their own relief to the creatures of the woods.

But if there is not enough food in the habitat for the number of deer, then there are too many deer for the habitat. We must remember that the deer have evolved to survive where they are, without reliance on humans to take care of them. That is the stark, beautiful reality that makes them WILD, and not cattle. They must be allowed to remain wild, to keep them strong and independent, and able to go on being what they were created to be when we have overpopulated ourselves into oblivion.

Artificially raising the deer population for our hunting pleasure is detrimental and demeaning, for the environment, the deer, and ourselves.

Killdeer
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: BCWV on February 25, 2010, 09:40:00 PM
Well, I don't feed the deer to be able to hunt them. I also have bird, squirrel and rabbit feeders.
My family and I like to watch the wildlife and my wife has named some of the deer and squirrels that we watch out the window while eating our breakfast on the weekends.
I bowhunt every chance I get, but not here. I'm not baiting.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Steve Kendrot on February 25, 2010, 10:45:00 PM
Yeah killdeer! You really captured what for me is the most compelling reason NOT to feed deer. Feeding deer reduces them to mere livestock.  Add to that the compelling biological reasons it is bad for deer and the environment and it makes no sence at all.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: George D. Stout on February 25, 2010, 11:18:00 PM
So what happens when they clean up the food plots and won't move on to natural browse.  In deep snow they can quickly overbrowse an area and can starve without moving on.  Unless you plan on feeding them until the snow is gone, you are better off to listen to the biologists....they know a heck of a lot more than we do about such things.

And, those of you who live in Texas aren't accustomed to big mountains and three feet of snow....or how deer react under such circumstances.  And, in Pennsylvania, we aren't allowed to hunt over feeders either....it's a whole nother' country up here boys.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Whip on February 25, 2010, 11:35:00 PM
Killy said it so eloquently (as usual) and expresses exactly my own feelings on feeding.  I know it is cool to have deer coming up in your backyard and to be able to see them close up.  But the reality is that is not natural.  I also do believe the biologists when they say that feeding can actually harm the deer because their systems aren't built to handle it if the feeding is suddenly cut off.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: smoke1953 on February 25, 2010, 11:45:00 PM
A good portion of there feeding is 4 ft. and higher above the ground.  Plenty of good browse.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Killdeer on February 26, 2010, 06:02:00 AM
BCWV, I was responding to Kyle's original question, and in no way was I casting judgment on you, nor anyone else's decisions regarding the subject.

An opinion was asked, and I gave mine. I understand the warm fuzzies associated with sharing wildlife viewing with one's family, and how happy it makes one to see their children discover the feeling of wonder that accompanies seeing the creatures of the wild.

Nuts and bolts are what they are, though, and they are not necessarily pretty.

I respect the way you run your household, it bespeaks a caring heart. Please do not take what I say as a condemnation of your decision.

Killdeer   :campfire:
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: BCWV on February 26, 2010, 07:09:00 AM
Killy, I missunderstood your post. Thanks for clearing it up. No worries at all.
I, also am stating my opinion and do not think that it's the only way. I agree in part with many post on this subject but only posted because it seemed that I was hearing that if I fed deer corn it would kill them. In some instances it may be so but wanted to show another result.
I agree that feeding wildlife can and sometime will cause problems. I think it's cruel to start feeding and then quit. We keep feed in all of our feeders until the animals quit coming in late spring to early summer.
We don't have a problem with chronic wasting here but this also can be a concern. At this time,I see no difference in my squirrel, bird,  rabbit or deer feeding.
I just wanted to try to make my post clear and will now keep my mouth shut on this topic.
We've had more snow last night and I need to fill my feeders before I go to work.
Brad
PS to Killy
I hope to look you up at ATAR this year.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Kyle Lancaster on February 26, 2010, 08:11:00 AM
I appreciate everyone's thoughts/facts on this subject.

Thank you,
Kyle
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Warden609 on February 26, 2010, 09:28:00 AM
Well said Killdeer.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Deadsmple on February 26, 2010, 10:17:00 AM
I personally believe in letting nature take it's course. If my local deer herd gets hit hard by a tough winter then so be it. For me, less deer in my area means a tougher season, and that's a good thing because I live for the challenge.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: TxAg on February 27, 2010, 12:46:00 AM
I realize things are done quite differently up north, and I don't disagree with it.

However, if it were me, I'd feed, feed, feed. That's just me being honest. Good luck whatever you decide.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Ssamac on February 27, 2010, 01:22:00 AM
I agree with Killdeer. I understand we are not talking about baiting here, but it somehow or other makes the deer less wild. I then I would not hunt them.

As far as touching nature especially for children, I like to take my boys (I only have boys but if I had girls I'd take them too) out to the woods to see nature where it lives. Kids spend too much time watching the TV and computer "window" and need that outside as much as possible.

IMHO
Sam
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: DIAMONDBACK on February 27, 2010, 07:43:00 AM
I live up north where where winter feeding has been going on for quite sometime.From what I have seen,the deer in my area benefit from it if done properly.By that I mean feed the deer grain that is made for them,once you start,you cant stop in a month,try too feed as far away from heavy traffic as possible.VT13 stated about a town in NH that the road kill is high,I live by it,people feed very close too town,the deer bounce from house to house,cross the main road.There are less people feeding now,a bag of feed is allmost $10.00,gets expensive.The deer that have been fed are in much better shape than the deer that are in a tradional deer yard,any body can see that,is it right or wrong too feed? tuff question
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: jr1959 on February 27, 2010, 08:53:00 AM
I agree with George, talk to the local wildlife biologist.  If you do feed them, keep feeding until things start to green up.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: painthorse on February 27, 2010, 10:09:00 AM
I have never thought about feeding deer because this part of the country is a natural food plot.
I would say if you feed them keep doing it until spring.
Personally I would not feed them.Deer have survived winters more harsh than this one and will continue to survive long after we are gone.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Sam McMichael on February 27, 2010, 10:14:00 AM
I have some questions about all this. With the unusually harsh winter being the perceived  cause for lack of food, this naturally seems to indicate that under more normal conditions there is enough food to support the herd, doesn't it? If so, does feeding the deer over the winter really tend to overpopulate the herd, or does it merely keep the tough conditions from under populating the herd? Perhaps, the potential for spread of disease through use of feeders is a just concern, but does not a food plot artificially congregate the deer and introduce this same threat? Yet there seems to be no great concern stated regarding this. I did like the idea of cutting some trees to provide a more natural food source.
 
In my personal situation, none of this is too serious, because Georgia winters are just not  devastating to the deer.I don't feed them, but do keep a small food plot. There are a lot of good posts on this thread with  better thought out conclusions than mine. I have often been concerned about how wildlife survives the northern winters, but since deer were thriving since before man arrived on this continent, I guess they have figured out a few of these problems. I have enjoyed hearing the various opinions stated here.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: aroflyte on February 27, 2010, 11:32:00 AM
Illegal to feed in Illinois. Possible spread of chronic wasting disease.
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Shawn Leonard on February 27, 2010, 01:05:00 PM
It is illegal in New York State to feed as well. This came about as CWD is and was being spread. I agree that if it gets real tough on the deer cut some natural browse in a few areas to help them  out but do establish food stations for a bunch of reasons already mentioned! Shawn
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Mojostick on February 27, 2010, 03:22:00 PM
Don't do it. You may think you're helping, but you are not.
Deer biologists almost universally suggest the public not feed deer in harsh winter conditions. Some DNR's occasionally will in select harsh northern climates, but that is done under controlled conditions by biologists.

Here's a link from the Northeast...

More Harm Than Good

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/Wildlife_PDFs/More_harm_deer_brochure.pdf
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Mojostick on February 27, 2010, 03:23:00 PM
From Maine...

http://www.maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/species/deer/feeding_deer.htm
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Mojostick on February 27, 2010, 03:26:00 PM
From Deer and Deer Hunting...

Do you feed deer in the winter?  

by D&DH Editor Dan Schmidt

Good Samaritans who think they're helping deer by putting out feed in the winter may actually be endangering the health of the herd, says New Hampshire Fish and Game Department wildlife biologist Kent Gustafson.

"People mean well, but don't realize the damage they're doing. Feeding wild white-tailed deer may actually reduce the animals' ability to survive a New England winter, making them more vulnerable to starvation, predation, disease and vehicle collisions," says Gustafson, who is the Deer Project Leader for Fish and Game. "Despite people's good intentions, supplemental feeding creates an artificial situation in which the deer, the habitat and the public may suffer."

Many people think of feeding deer like feeding the birds, but there are some critical differences that make feeding deer unhealthy for the deer population, for plants near the feed site and for passing motorists. One scientific study in Maine concluded that forest plant communities can be permanently altered within 1,000 yards of traditional feeding sites.

"Quality natural habitat provides the best insurance for deer survival in winter," says Gustafson. "If you care about deer, leave them alone -- let them be wild, and find natural foods and appropriate winter shelter on their own. The bottom line is, please don't feed the deer, and please discourage your neighbors, friends and relatives from engaging in this harmful activity."
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Mojostick on February 27, 2010, 03:30:00 PM
From Michigan DNR...

Feeding Wildlife Often Does More Harm Than Good


http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_46403_46404-227360--,00.html
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Mojostick on February 27, 2010, 03:32:00 PM
From Ontario...

The ministry asks people not to feed deer because:

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/258068.pdf
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Mojostick on February 27, 2010, 03:34:00 PM
Good Intentions Gone Bad
Feeding Deer in Winter Can Cause More Harm than Good

http://www.dec.ny.gov/pubs/49741.html
Title: Re: Winter Feeding Deer
Post by: Mojostick on February 27, 2010, 03:42:00 PM
Lastly, here's one concerning this winter...

http://www.wvgazette.com/Outdoors/201002100727?page=1&build=cache

February 13, 2010

Please don't feed the deer

Just days after 20 inches of snow blanketed the ridge, a second storm arrived. We could have another 8 inches by morning.


Such conditions bring out the softie in many of us. We make sure the bird feeders are filled even before we shovel out the driveway.


But what about feeding the deer? They need a little help too, don't they?


NO, no, no! Do not feed the deer.


So says Jerry Feaser of the Pennsylvania Game Commission; Jim Crum, deer biologist for the West Virginia Division of Natural Resources; and Dr. Anne Ballmann, veterinarian and wildlife disease specialist for the National Wildlife Health Center. In New York, it's actually "illegal to feed deer by putting out any material that attracts deer to feed."


It's unanimous among wildlife professionals. Feeding deer is a bad idea. In New York, it's criminal.


Corn is what most wildlife lovers offer deer, and even if it's labeled "deer corn," feeding corn to deer is about the worst thing you can do. Unless you're trying to kill the deer.


Feaser points to a PGC brochure titled "Please Don't Feed the Deer," available at  www.pgc.state.pa.us. (http://www.pgc.state.pa.us.)  (Click on the white-tailed deer icon, then "Living with Whitetails.")


"By late fall, deer instinctively reduce their food intake and continue to do so through most of the winter," Feaser says. "During that time deer rely heavily on fat reserves and their ability to conserve energy."


In fact, a 1984 Pennsylvania study found that deer could survive a least a month with no food at all. During winter, deer lose 20 percent or more of their body weight by burning fat reserves. They are well adapted to survive the many stresses that winter presents.

Crum understands that people mean well, but "I see too many deer on my necropsy table with bellies full of corn."


The problem is that deer digestion is a finely tuned physiological process -- just the right combination of microorganisms, enzymes, and pH enable deer to digest a normal winter diet of woody vegetation. When offered a sudden supply of corn, a deer's digestive system doesn't have time to adjust to a high carbohydrate diet. The result can be acute acidosis followed by death within 72 hours.


At the time of death these deer can appear normal and well fed. It's just that they cannot digest the corn. Within six hours, corn alters the environment in the rumen. It turns the rumen acidic and destroys the microbes needed for normal digestion.


Not all deer die immediately from acidosis. Its effects vary with the age and health of the individual. Some may simply slow down, get clumsy, and become easy prey to speeding traffic and hungry coyotes.


It takes deer two to four weeks of feeding on a new food source to establish populations of microbes necessary to digest the new food. It can't happen in just a few days during a snowstorm. And healthy individuals that might survive in the short term often succumb to complications weeks later.


Furthermore, Dr. Ballmann cautions that supplemental feeding "concentrates deer in small areas where a variety of infectious diseases can be spread." And in traveling to and from a supplemental source of food, deer, especially the young and the old, expend energy they can't afford to lose.


Feeding deer is never a good idea. I know this runs counter to what many people think, especially those who feed deer. But just because deer don't die in your back yard doesn't mean they aren't dying elsewhere in the woods or on the highway. The worst thing you can do for deer is feed them. Some will starve, and some will fall prey to coyotes, but that's how healthy populations stay healthy.


If you really want to help the local deer population, concentrate on habitat improvement. Plant mast-bearing trees and shrubs. Plant a stand of conifers to provide winter cover from wind and snow. And create forest openings to stimulate the growth of the woody browse that sustains deer herds all winter long.