Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: PeteA on February 18, 2010, 11:49:00 AM
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How many out there are shooting cock feather in? This goes against my 30 years of compound shooting.
I am relatively new to trad and for some reason I find this the most accurate way to shoot for me. It gives me two anchor reference points, corner of the mouth with my middle finger and feather to the tip of my nose.
When I shoot cock feather out I go through bouts of string contact with my nose. I can't seem to get my head in the proper position.
Any advise welcome. Is this just bad tuning, bad form or both.
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I have shot both ways, I use it as a tuning aid. You know to check clearences.
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I have traditionaly shot with cock feather out, but sometimes when I have an arrow that flies screwy, I turn cockfeather in and it corrects the problem.
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In works best for me.
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I have shot cock feather in with vanes, it shot the same as my feathers w cock feather out.
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I have done it with vanes off the shelf,also have had an arrow with a broadhead not fly well....cock feather in and it flew like a dart. Whatever works!!!
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I've shot cock feather in ever since Kelly of Arrows by Kelly recommended it in his archery tips. My arrows tune with a lower nocking point that way.
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If you have to draw and nock quickly to get a shot off, it is not a problem. Unless the bow is center shot and the arrow is bending around the rest when the feather clears. The best reason for shooting with it out is to minimize wear on the feather. If you put some Talc or baby powder on the rest, you can see where the arrow or feathers touch.
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I have tried both methods because I wanted to feel comfortable to go either way in a hunting situation. I like the cock feather in because the arrow seems to recover faster with the other two feathers facing out!
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Like Spikemaster says. I believe it gives me the best clearance and allows a lower nocking point. Some powder or chalk like Hud says make the mystery of straight arrow flight a lot less frustrating. Having carbon arrows that you can easily turn the arrow nock helps to find the best option.
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every time
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I know Mike Palmer recomended this to me when I was having problems with the feather getting caught on the shelf.
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FWIW
I switched to carbons a while back and once I got the tune figured out it doesn't matter any more for me. In or out I can't tell the difference.
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Ok, I've got the talk on my rest and side plate. Now what?
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Cock feather UP works best for me!! Hen goes between rest and side plate (if it touches at all).
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Very interesting thread. I shot a friends bow where he recommended that the cock feather be turned in, he said the arrow just flew better. I'm going to try this on my set up, like others have said "whatever works".
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I intend to try shooting cock feathers in tonight. I've never shot an arrow this way before. Lets see what happens.
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Most of my bows work best with cock feather out. A few are beter with the cock feather in. I will also shoot cock feather in, when shooting off the shelf, if I want to use arrows with vanes instead of feathers.
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I was told last year to try cock feather in to see if that helped my arrow flight and it did help for some reason, I bare shaft tune my arrows before placing fletching on them, so it kinda funny how things work with archery. Now my mind set has changed to try everything to see what works best for each set up.
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Thanks guys, so maybe I am not crazy after all.
The biggest advantage I see is that I have 2 anchor reference points with cock feather in, middle finger in the side of the mouth and a hen feather to the tip of the nose. My groups have tighten up dramatically. I often times have 2-3 arrows out of 6 touch in a 5 inch circle at 17 yards. Too much snow here in NY to get my 20 yard shot in. Will be heading to a range this weekend to see what i get.
PeteA
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Cock feather in works best for me. I use the feather on my nose as another anchor point.
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Thanks guys, so maybe I am not crazy after all.
Well.. You still might be crazy, but your feathers will be ok. :D :smileystooges:
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The only thing important is good arrow flight. I am shooting some 2016 with soft vanes and getting excellent flight,not supposed to happen.
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I generally shoot cf inn when shooting vertical, and if i cant the bow, i use cf out..
don't think it makes to much of a difference though, just a habit..
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With a correctly tunned arrow as a rule it wont make a differance but we are all different so some will get better clearnce with cock feather in. I my self shoot cock feather in with the back knuckle of thumb on ear lobe and hen feather (now at 11:00) on the tip of my nose.
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I have better arrow flight cock feather in as well.
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If these are wood arrows it would be a good idea to have the rift of the arrows pointed in the correct position. I shoot cock feather in.
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I'm with SS Snuffer, I prefer to shoot with my cock feather up.
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I was watching a video - Maters of the barebow one or two...can't remember.
Fred Ichler was talking about his setup...the pretty pink feathers and all (he is funny).
Anyway he was showing why he shoots CF in cause he feels his bow bend enough to go around the riser anyway so he has lots of clearance.
He only shoots 4" feathers too and so the height of the feathers are less too (less bulk).
ANYWAY...he says he can shoot vanes off the shelf the same way cause of the archers paradox. He said if he tries it cock feather out the quill hits his rest and cock feather in it has a natural clearance.
All of that being said if your not getting enough paradox to go by the riser without making contact then you will have to play with is and tune the feathers and the nocks so it does have the clearance.
Kinda cool that you could shoot vanes if it was pouring rain though...but mine fly good even if the feathers are drenched
Jer
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My arrow flight is the same in or out....but I shoot with it in only because I get zero feather wear that way.
When I shot with it out, the bottom hen would wear after a while.
With a well tuned set-up in or out shouldn't make a difference....
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In for me! I started that way since one of the gentlemen on Masters of the Barebow recommended it. Better clearence
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I shoot left handed. I use right wing fletched arrows. If i use helical left wing fletched arrows i need to turn the cock feather in to get good flight.
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Cock feather inl ets you shoot with a lower nock point,as Spikemaster points out. It also seems to compensate a little for a nock point that is too low. I shoot both ways, but cock feather in seems to be a little more forgiving of nock point location regardless of where it is.
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It depends upon what bow i'm shooting. Which ever way gets better arrow flight.
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I see no differance! I use my cock feather for another anchor, that's the only reason I have mine out! Jason
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I shoot the cock feather up which allows the hen feather to ride the slit in the shelf strike plate just like SS Snuffer described earlier. RJ
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Cock feather in for me. The late, great, Jack Howard was a proponent of shooting cock feather in based upon his early use of high speed photography to test his equipment.
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I definitely get better arrow flight w/cock in with may longbows. Recurves either way seems to work as well.
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Absolutely!
Except mine's just a hen feather,
then I can see the cock feather easily.
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I always considered it part of the tuning process. Each bow/arrow combo ultimately has that "sweet spot", where all the stars and planets align.
Once I'm almost to that point, I will play around with CF in or out (or up - gotta love tunable nocks) till I'm happy with one or the other.
I usually end up with CF out.
However, my favorite go-to bow, a Dale Dye TE, happens to have a preference for CF in. I get distinct fletching rub on the very edge of the shelf when shooting CF out. While this rubbing never seemed to have a negative impact on arrow flight, it had a negative affect on my mind....I knew it was happening! A bit of testing with CF in and powder...no more rub.
Hard to say that one way or the other is correct....many folks just shoot that way because someone told them to or "that's how I've always done it!". I seen a lot of BW shooters shoot CF up, because someone at BW recommended that way. Many of us "ol timers" probably shoot CF out by default, because that was the way we were taught.
Bottom line....don't shoot one way or the other because someone tells you to.....experiment on your own. We aren't talking some drastic change here. Ya never know.....one little change like that may make the stars and planets align!
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The only thing that scares me about shooting with cock feather in is the rift on wood arrows. The way I set up my arrows I set them to break away from my hand versus into my hand as TJ Conrads illistrates in his book.
As I said earlier I use cock feather in when I have an arrow that won't fly
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It's true that you'll get less wear on feathers if you don't crowd one down in the corner.
Larry
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Wow I would have never thought of even doing it. But I get the same wear as Guru, I know what I am going to try today.
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In 'PeteA's' first thread, he says that it helps him with string contact on his nose. This is a big problem for me. Can someone explain how shooting cock feather in will help alleviate string to nose contact?
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Kat,
PeteA here. When I shoot CFI the 2 hen feather are facing out away from the the side plate. When I come to full draw and anchor (middle finger to corner of mouth-I shoot split finger) the top hen feather touches the very tip of my nose. That touch gives me a second anchor reference point. That feeling is also just enough to keep my head aligned and not turning in that fraction of an inch to get the string contact with my nose. I can duplicate the touch on every shot. It gives me one less thing to worry about. It seems that it helps everything align better for me. I see a noticeable difference in my group sizes at 17 yards. Going to shoot at 20 at a range tomorrow.
Give it a shot.
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I shoot cock feather up I rotate my knock .I use velcro for my shelf and my side plate and leave a channel for the feather quill to clear I have found this to be easier on the feathers and obstuuction.
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Can someone explain how to do the talk test on the side plate?
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I will let you know after I try it.
God bless,Mudd
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I try to use cock feather up, but shoot predominately woodies and bamboo, so no chance of adjusting arrow nock for clearance after glue up. With a couple of my bows I find consistency with cock feather in. I don't use the fletching for anchor so don't have a problem with changing from up to in when need be.
At first CFI seemed a bit unorthodox to me, but it has worked, so I use it. If my hens look to be riding the rest upon release, I'm shooting cock feather in.
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I've always shot cfo, but I'm going to try cfi next saturday at the indoor range.
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I have always shot cock feather in. I was getting to much contact on the lower hen feather when the cock feather was out.
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I shoot cock feather in. My bows shoot the same both ways, but I have less wear on my feathers with this style.
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I bare shaft tuned my bow to shoot like darts. After fletching the shaft I shot the arrow CFO and it porpoised badly. I turned the shaft CFI and it flew great. I raised the nock and the the arrow flew great CFO. This was also reported by another archer here on TradGang.
Ken
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cock feather in since 1970 when using RW feathers. Using LW, my bitz is setup that the one hen feather is already in the 12 position. Got the cock feather in advice when I spoke to the late Jack Howard...
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I'm pretty new to traditional archery, and my first recurve had a NAP flipper center rest on it. I shot vanes and feathers just like I used to shoot on my compunds, cock feater out. When I changed bows and started shooting off the shelf, I noticed after about 15 or 20 shots my bottom hen feather was really starting to wear. Read about shooting cock feather in, no more feather wear. I have not noticed any difference in accuracy. Wouldn't shoot any other way now.
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On most of my bows it doesn't seem to matter much unles it's a broadhead arrow. Then for some reason on some of my longbows the flight is better with the cock feather in.
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One feather goning across the bow gets better flight than one hitting the shelf and side plate at the same time.I turn my nock so only one feather touchs where shot.
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I'm a lefty, I shoot mostly right wing feathers, but also have some arrows with LW. Most of my arrows are 4 fletch, but also have a lot with 3. I shoot em CF in, CF out. Doesnt matter in most cases, but some seem to shoot better CF in on certain bows. If I shoot one and it fly's a little wierd, I spin it around and shoot it CF in.
I do remember when I first started shooting, I tried CF in, and it did tighten my groups up considerably. More often than not when shooting a 3 fltch arrow, shoot CF in. I think bow tuning has a lot to do with it. If your bow and arrows are matched well, they shouls shoot good either way.
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I also shoot left-handed with 5.5 inch right wing helical feathers.
I have shot cock feather in and out but prefer shooting cock feather out with the nock rotated slightly for better clearance.
I have been using the feather to the nose as a second anchor point for years and that is the best position for me. We are all built differently.
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Don't really see a difference with my centershot recurve, but get better flight and a lower nock point with my non-centershot longbows with cock feather in; less hen feather wear, also.
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I have found cock feather up works best for me .
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I have done it for years, and I prefer it over "cock feather" in.
Seems to recover faster,and less wear and tear on feathers.
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I was taught cock feather in as a child, and through time and trials including trying cock feather out, i have come to shoot a varaiation of cock feather in. I shoot cock feather in the corner, that being the corner of the shelf and the riser. Works great the knocking point is lower and keeps the arrow more in line for me.
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Originally posted by BOWMARKS:
I have found cock feather up works best for me .
Me too. That way only one feather is making contact and it is in the corner where the strike plate meets the leather shelf pad. Seems to recover faster at close range.
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Originally posted by rightminded:
I shoot left handed. I use right wing fletched arrows. If i use helical left wing fletched arrows i need to turn the cock feather in to get good flight.
The best point in my opinion - I'm right handed and shoot RW feathers, I would get better clearance using LW feathers (I'll switch once I use up my stuff) anyway, recurves seem to show this edge of shelf feather contact using RW, cock feather in with a shelf which will show it - like velcro, it will burn the outside edge- it doesn't happen on my longbows - using the opposite helical and cock feather in allows more clearance. Whoever mentioned Fred in MBB I reviewed that last week and he is shooting left helical as well. I have no comment on the pink feathers though. :eek:
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I shoot my SJR with the cock feather in just seems to work for me