Hi Gang:
I know this has been covered plenty of times, but here goes:
In looking over this topic, it seems most people are using footed carbons to stump shoot. I have never shot carbons, and frankly do not want to spend the money.
I hunt with aluminum, and it seems crazy to stump shoot those, they'd bend in a heartbeat.
So, I use cedar. The problem is, with steel blunts, I'm breaking EVERY shaft at the tip.
So I use Flu-Flus: not as many breaks, but the trajectory is different. I'd rather use the "standard" feathers, not flu-flus.
If I stay away from carbons, what works best for you? I'm thinking of trying those rubber blunts from Three-Rivers, thinking that might save some arrows, because this is crazy! I took one of the kids out for a while today, we had a blast, but I came home with a quiver full of kindling.
Or is time to bite the bullet and go to carbon?
Thanks,
Rich
I'll tell you what Rich, footed carbons are tough to beat for stumpshooting. If you're going through that many woodies stumpshooting, get yourself a half dozen carbons, foot them and see how long they last. I think you'll find that you will save money in the long run......or I can give you a couple to try out......
David
Hardwoods like hickory maple or birch are much tougher to break than cedar. Might also be a bit more selective in the stumps and other stuff you choose to shoot. Look for dead, rotted stumps, clumps of dirt without visible stones, etc.
for the price you spent replacing your broken arrows and the rubber blunt you are going to buy you could buy carbons and have money left over.
Go here and watch the video - that's what I am going to do once i tune my AD's to my new bows.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=083535
Jer Bear
If you buy the blems from Big Jim, the price of carbons aint too bad to start with, and then they don't break. Easy math.
I missed with a carbon at probably 6 stumps today. I shot through 2 stumps that I thought were thicker and bounced it off three other stumps that didn't have as flat of a surface as I thought. It's still in my quiver and will be lost next weekend at the JLMBH.
I have also a Douglas fir arrow in my quiver from a friend fixed with a JUDO point. That's one tough arrow!
i use the braveheart foot/weight jig that inserts a glued-in nail into the core of the shaft's front end = tough as nails, pun intended! i use judo points exclusively for roving and haven't busted a shaft behind the head yet. :thumbsup:
I used to stump shoot with aluminum arrows and had great success with Judo points. I tried to stay away from shooting at "new" stumps also. I also enjoyed shooting at tufts of grass, lone leaves at edges of woods, and plastic bottles. These items aren't as apt to ruin your arrows as are fresh stumps.
But now, I just use my Bemans and still only shoot at the aforementioned "stumps".
I have broken far fewer arrows using Ace Hex heads than any other point. I have broken ash shafts, but not as easily as I have broken cedars.
I will offer up this:
You straighten, sand and stain your cedars, seal them, taper them, put on nocks, feathers and points. Straighten them again.
How much time and money are in them?
Now, look into the low-end but good carbons, not the fancy wood-grained looking ones, but your basics that are built the same without all the make-up. Put on a wrap or spray-paint a cap. Fletch them and add nocks, inserts and points (I am still killing stumps with hex heads!).
Which cost more? Remember to pay yourself for your time. I betya the carbons are cheaper, especially when you figure that you are not having to replace them as often. The hard part will be finding the shaft that works for your setup.
Killdeer
One other target I found to be great today was Horse poop. Not fresh but a big pile of frozen poop. It was nice since there were plenty of targets that explode when hit. Since it was frozen it wasn't as messy as most think and the judo point hung up in the grass and quickly stopped arrows. I wasn't checking for broken nocks every shot! :thumbsup:
Rob took the words outta my mouth :) Except I use a 1/8" rod...I can get up to 5" of footing inside the shaft which weighs in at about 125 grains. My disproportionate barrel tapered shafts with these footings have great FOC, weight, and toughness.
Craig
I have good luck shooting judo points with wood shafts stump shooting. Although they are not cheap but the shaft and point seem to last for years. Unless you shoot at something that turns out to be a rock. I found out the hard way shooting the rubber blunts one day at about 15 yards at hard things be prepared to DUCK!!!!
also, with the braveheart jig, you can foot the front end without adding any significant weight by using 3" to 4" of 1/8" carbon or plastic fiber rod instead of an iron nail or tungsten rod.
because this type of footing runs from the tip of the point taper, not from behind the point itself, it really strengthens the entire front end of the arrow.
I stump with arrows made from shoots. Practically unbreakable.
Jawge
I just bought the rubber blunts from 3 Rivers. They work just fine. Just to see what would happen, I shot a stump from real close up (5 yds) with 60# bow. The blunt worked and the arrow was fine. Uh, but the ricochet sucked. Hit my son in the chest. Better think that one thru next time. Glad Momma wasn't watching.
Rich, I don't shoot stumps like a lot of guys. I shoot bright colored leaves, small tufts of grass, little stick ups, leaves that are sticking up and such. I never could convince myself to intentionally shoot an object that is hard with one of my arrows. Just me I guess. It seems self destructive. Kind of like driving 70 in a 55 and wondering why you get a ticket. Another thing is rove on ground that is not flat so your arrow will not skip. Doesn't matter what type point you shoot then. We don't have the snow to fight like you guys up North. So any day is good day to shoot leaves and such in Louisiana unless we are in one of our monsoons. A lot of guys stalk and shoot cans, trash and such. These are great targets, however, when you have the New England snow to contend with, I guess most the trash is buried until Spring.
You are not alone.
Billy
Can the Bravehart jig be used on a shaft that is already tapered?
Thanks-Hap
I stump shoot termite mounds which can be pretty hard at times. I use Douglas fir. Some of mine have had hundreds of launches. They usually break when I miss and hit one of the plentiful rocks that litter the ground in many places. Douglas fir and an Ace Hex blunt is my recommendation.
Yes, Hap, the jig can be used on a tapered shaft.
As always, this place is the best!
I have plenty to look at and think about, thanks for everybody's reply.
By the way, that Braveheart jig is no longer available through them, (I contacted Braveheart and Tim promptly responded) but Three Rivers has them.
Not to be a smartie, but 'stump shooting' doesn't necessarily mean you have to shoot at actual stumps. Those are hard on equipment, whereas I've flung many an aluminum arrow at a patch of grass, or leaf or discarded coffee cup or something with no damage at all.
Rather than spending more money / time replacing or avoiding broken arrows, maybe all you need to do is select softer targets.
I shoot stumps,clumps of grass, anything with my aluminum arrows (flu-flu) with the hammer head. I hardly ever bend one. I buy 1/2 dz. "Blues arrows for this job from Bowhunter supercenter and enjoy myself.
Yes, don't take the term "stump shooting" literally. I shoot anything else but a solid stump. I use either XX75 aluminum and judo heads or a couple of old fiberglass arrows.
I use hexpine shafts, which rarely break, if they do, its right at the back of the taper. You could cut your shafts a little longer so if you do bust one off, you can usually re-taper them a could times.
'stump shooting' is just a term that harks back to the old nfaa redlands days - even their logo is an arrow in a stump.
(http://www.nfaaarchery.org/webready/merchandise/200_205_NFAAEmbroideredPatch.jpg.jpg)
in reality, it's all just roving and more often than not the mark is anything but a tree stump. :D
for woodies i use hex pines almost exclusively - they're very durable and they spine pretty true 360 degrees around the shaft so i never bother looking for the sweet spine side,
what makes hex pines nearly fool proof for foiling those behind the head breaks is ...
yup, the braveheart woodie foot/weight jig - now only available at 3 rivers archery (http://www.3riversarchery.com/Arrow+Building+Footing++Internal+Point+Weight+and+Jig_c52_s224_p0_i5603X_product.html) .
(http://www.3riversarchery.com/images/medium/5603X.jpg)
The last thing I want to shoot is a stump. Judo points and random targets, and hardwood arrows. Cedar is just too soft and fragile. Any hardwood will last a long, long time if you don't shoot hard things like big rocks and fresh stumps. I have an arrow in my quiver now with a judo point that's been shot many hundreds, if not a thousand or more times. I've replace the fletching twice on it.
I stump shoot with 2117's with judo's and believe it or not I could count on one hand the arrows I've bent. The property I hunt has been forest managed. They came in and cut almost all the ceders and let me tell you them stumps are hard. 3 rivers are selling the black shaft's for 39 bucks a dozen. That's just about as cheap as I could build wood arrow's for and alot easier IMHO! Jason
Like others have said, shoot something other than cedars :) Ash is (nearly) unbreakable, but heavy. I switched over the lodgepole pine and still am not breaking too many shafts... I have hexpine shafts coming for the new bow, so I'm glad to hear of Rob's experience with them!
Not sure what aluminums you are shooting but you are on to something that is worth expanding on.....HTM Rubber Blunts! Now, I shoot Ramin wood arrow shafts but have a ton of cedar AND aluminum that I also shoot and here is what I have taken to using with them. Aluminum: I take one of the smaller HTM Rubber Blunts, around 58 grains, and inside of that I make a threaded steel blunt by cutting down a field point (threaded) to a weight that when combined with the blunt I have the point weight I normally shoot. This way the aluminum shaft doesn't come through the bottom of the blunt. Blunts are much better than judo's in my experience for two reasons: (1) cedar breaks easily with a judo point when you hit something hard, even hard packed earth, (2) my heavy Ramin shafts simply destroy Judo points (the tips bend and the wire arms break off in time). On wood arrows I have taken to using the larger Rubber Blunts and have found them superior to using a steel blunt or a judo for many reasons and the main one being "SOUND" in the woods. If you like to stump shoot while out scouting or hunting anything metalic, even hitting a wood surface, is not a normal forest sound and for this reason I don't like using them. A rubber blunt however makes a very natural sound that is more like wood-on-soft wood contact and therefor doesn't project your presence like a metallic tip would. I have also found them excellant shooting in grass as they cannot snake under and get lost (at least as good if not better than a judo). So, your instinct to use the good ole Rubber Blunt is a good one and you should stick with it I think.
Just don't shoot the stumps - i shoot a clump of grass - some leaves - bushes - cow pies (HARD ONES) - horse droppings...you name it. I don't shoot stumps very often unless I can see they are rotten.
Jer Bear
I can't emphasize enough what a few other posters have pointed out...shooting stumps is a catch all term that can be misleading. At one end of the spectrum you have stumps that just became stumps, meaning they were trees YESTERDAY! You know no to shoot those if you want your arrow back. :)
At the other end of the spectrum is the old, venerable stump. It has been a stump for years and it's starting to show it's age, rotting, mouldering away and waiting to turn back into dirt.
THAT'S the stump you want!
Cowpies -- pick the dry ones ;) -- anthills, pinecones and thistle tops are good, too.
And don't forget to check ANY arrow for damage after EVERY shot while out stumping -- you don't want a broken arrow in your hand!
Kirk
Oh, and I stump with woodies all the time!
Kirk
ps- isn't New Hampshire "the Granite State?" Watch the rocks in the background!