What's the most foolproof or strongest takedown system? I like the looks of the bow-bolt because it's simple and looks very sturdy, but it doesn't allow for a leather or beavertail grip wrap; at least I've never seen one with a grip wrap. How's the connexion hinge for ease of use and durability? Does the little area missing on the grip feel wierd or do you not even notice it?
thanks,
Ken
Shrew bows use leather with the bow bolt.
Here's a photo of one they had in stock... for a few minutes!
http://shrewbows.com/instockbows/
Notice the thin horizontal line in the center of the grip? That's all that shows.
Chad Holm makes some awesome take down long bows with a bow bolt system. He is a sponsor on this site and a great guy as well. Take a look.
www.holmmadetraditionalbows.com (http://www.holmmadetraditionalbows.com)
A simple forum search just octupled you answers ;)
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=056058
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=070343#000000
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=077422
-SveinD-
i've had connexion hinges on a few bows and its a great system . i have however returned to ordering my bows with the sleeve t/d . a great and sturdy system that feels rock solid in the hand . you will most likely be rather limited in handle shapes though.
thanks for the info guys.
I really like the look of this on a Big Jim Bow. Really nice, clean T/D....
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/Shallowergripthroat.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c210/coaster500/big_jims_bow_1.jpg)
i've used 2pc t/d longbows with the sleeve, bow bolt and connexion hinge.
i absolutely prefer the connexion because it's a fast, bank vault safe lockup that will not stick or fail to mate no matter the temperature. humidity or dust/dirt conditions.
i do like the mechanics and looks of big jim's t/d sleeve, though!
jack harrisons carbon sleeve system is the strongest ive seen so far and the coolest looking. we have had test bows 100@28 with this system and they are still going strong! plus they look really cool!
I like the fiberglass or carbon sleeves and the Connection hinge best myself.Both work well and are not effected as much by temp changes as the metal sleeves.You can also use both in a variety of riser wood types unlike the bow bolt or beveloc systems.
it's funny I was just looking at Big Jims takedown system. Rob, do you notice a difference in the grip feel with the connexion hinge? I'm thinking about a getting a takedown hawk and saw that's what Vince uses.
thanks,
Ken
I tend to think the one Fred Bear came out with in 1970 is the best, probably not what you had in mind though.
Slip fit is what I prefer. Feels rock solid in my hand.
I like the looks of the Bevel Lok that kustom king sells. It looks like it could be installed just under the leather wrap if one wanted too. Don't know of any bowyers using it ..............
I would like to see the BW Locket socket, I did the search got all the post but no picture, would like to see one. The connection hinge works fine......stabow
Best connection depends somewhat on the riser design. I still prefer the sleeve for a Hill style bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ceb:
I tend to think the one Fred Bear came out with in 1970 is the best, probably not what you had in mind though.
I agree, no muss, no fuss, no tools.
I have 2 shrews with the Bevel/Wedge lock and like the system. The bolt looks like a Welding Cable connection.
Back before I was building bows, I shot a takedown with a bow bolt at the Kalamazoo expo. Now it was built in a 62# bow with a solid wood riser. First mistake was a solid wood riser. I shot it 5 times and thought, I like this I think i'll buy it and then on the six shot, it flexed in my hand and then exploded into pieces.
There were many things that that boyer did wrong, and I think that the bow bolt might be fine as long as bows don't get above 50 #'s +- but didn't trust them enough to use that system when I started building my take downs.
Not one of my personal bows is under 86#'s and I draw a 64" bow to nearly 30"s. They are carbon fiberglass socket style td's and have never had a problem. You can't tell they are take downs ever until they are taken down. No difference in feel, no difference in shooting and maybe as much as 1-3 oz. different in weight but I doubt that much. Anyway it works for me.
Bigjim
where do we get the connexion hinges ?
Chuck
Robertson Archery makes and sells them, Kustom King had them too.
Ken, I built a bow with the hinge a long time ago and you can feel it but unless you have a death grip you wont notice it. Although it's not as pretty as some others it works well and I have only ever heard of one failure, and that was with bad screws.
I've done two with the Connexion and am quite sold on it, one from scratch and one conversion. I've had several other systems on bought bows, though not the Bow Bolt. It's probably just fine in most installations, but there have been a couple of incidents and for the slim longbows I build, it makes me nervous. I've had sleeves, excellent system for longbows, but not as convenient to take apart as the hinge, especially if you leave it for too long.
Thanks for all the info guys. Sounds like the connexion is a pretty good system.
Big Jim, I really like that takedown system you use. Would that limit my grip options (slimmer locator grip)? When you get my one pc finished I'll see how I like the grip and see if I can get the same grip in a take-down.
So....? on the Big Jim and Widow (lock it sock it). Do the two halfs just slide into each other or are they actually locked in somehow?
Kenneth I can make a smaller grip in the TD, but there are limitations.
Mrpike, there is no need in it locking together. It will not come apart unless you take it apart. It won't fall apart when unstrung. That is what I didn't care for about the conexion hinge. Other than that and feeling and seeing it, I had no qualms with the conexion hinge. I think it is a decent system.
With the socket, you get the best of all worlds. You can't see it, cant feel it, won't fall apart when untrung, it should also be very easy to take apart if you use the corect lubrican in the grip no matter how long it stays together.
BigJim
A friend of mine has a Mohawk with the connexion hing system. I placed my order with Vince last week.
i'm really gettin' intrigued with big jim's socket system .... !
QuoteOriginally posted by Kenneth:
it's funny I was just looking at Big Jims takedown system. Rob, do you notice a difference in the grip feel with the connexion hinge? I'm thinking about a getting a takedown hawk and saw that's what Vince uses.
thanks,
Ken
having owned and shot a gaggle of t/d and 1pc 'hawks, yer bow hand would be hard pressed to tell the difference 'tween the two bow types. vince's craftsmanship and design is second to none, imo.
roll down rubber grip ...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/M6-1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/M7.jpg)
leather grip ...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/td16.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/td14.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/td14.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/td12.jpg)
thanks for the pics Rob. That's a lot better view of it. Most of the pics I've seen it looks larger an kind of out of place, but now that I see it better it doesn't look that noticable and the roll down rubber completely conceals it.
Maybe I'll have Big Jim build me a take down and get a one pc Mohawk or maybe I'll order a take down from both.... Hmmmm... life is full of hard decisions. :D ;)
i just ordered my second t/d mohawk. :D
I need to try one with the standard grip. I found out the one I had was special made with the big blocky grip. I loved the way it shot but the grip was too big when I wore gloves.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kenneth:
I need to try one with the standard grip. I found out the one I had was special made with the big blocky grip. I loved the way it shot but the grip was too big when I wore gloves.
the grip on a 'hawk is Very Slim and torque-free.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/h4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/h5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/h3.jpg)
How about the type that Mike Treadway and Tomahawk use. It looks good to me, but I have never had a 2 pc. longbow......not that I wouldn't like to have one...lol!!!
Back in the very late 60's and early 70's , a bow named Magna Flye, used a very simple yet very effective take down system. The limbs were simply slipped into the riser until they snapped into place. Great simple procedure. I still have an old Magna Flyte..Came with Hard case , and it was a fast, durable bow .
The only reason this bow was discontinued was because of the compound revolution.I believe the bow was made in Illinois.
Rob, yeah that grip is A LOT smaller than the grip on the hawk I had. I need to get my hands on one of those and give it a try.
Two Black Widow's...PSRV recurve on top and a PLV longbow on the bottom.One's a T/D and the other is a 1-pc.Tell the differance?
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2itqyxk.jpg)
Here's the t/d compared to the 1-pc. Great system and both grips are pretty much identical in feel
(http://i46.tinypic.com/293apuq.jpg)
I really like the system Big Jim and Widow use, maybe Jim should do a Buildalong! (hint-hint)
This TimberHawk system works great and is rock solid. I'm putting gator on the grip.
please keep all posted images no wider tha 640 - thank you!
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m84/TJReceveur/BowSeparated.jpg[/IMG]
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m84/TJReceveur/Longbow.jpg[/IMG]
QuoteOriginally posted by IndianaBowman:
[QB] This TimberHawk system works great and is rock solid. I'm putting gator on the grip.
That is the Bow Bolt system on the TimberHawk. I have 5 bows with Bow Bolts, from about 50# up to almost 70#. All of them are rock solid. Four are Shrews and one is a Holm-Made -- all longbows. All of them are made with laminated materials, either phenolic or Dymondwood or a combination of phenolic and exotic hardwoods, so the risers are very strong compared to a solid piece of wood. There has only been one Shrew with a Bow Bolt that has ever come apart, and that one had a solid Gaboon Ebony riser. That choice proved to be a mistake, so now Gregg Coffey will not build risers like that which may not stand the stresses of the Bow Bolt. The Bow Bolt itself is very strong and should not ever be a problem if the risers are designed and constructed to handle the stress. I don't know if Chad Holm has ever had a failure of a bow with a Bow Bolt, but I do know that he also limits the materials he will use in a riser with a Bow Bolt. I love the function and simplicity of the Bow Bolt. Properly installed it is a great, reliable system.
The only other two piece system that appeals to me personally is the socket system that Big Jim and Black Widow use. I would not hesitate to purchase a bow with that form of takedown mechanism. It is one of the simplest and most rugged for the owner and has the advantage over the Bow Bolt of not having threads that can be damaged themselves or cause damage to the other end of the bow or adjacent objects. I do think there might be more flexibility in the design of the grip when using the Bow Bolt than the socket system, but I'm not sure of that. I do like the looks of Big Jim's and Black Widow bows with the socket system, especially Jim's bows. It sounds like the socket system may be the best two piece takedown option of any for really heavy poundage bows based on what Jim tells us.
Allan
How much weight does the socket system add to the riser? Thanks.
God bless,
José
Thunderhorn has an amazing 2 piece design that never gets much mention.Maybe because not many guys have had the oppurtunity to see one.It is expensive though to have done.You end up with a riser with all the wood showing in the grip area and it can be custom shaped to the buyers requests.Its hardly noticable that its a 2 piece.
Like others I have been very happy with the Widow and Big Jims style of TD.
The brass and metal sleeve done by Wallace and Fox are also very good and come with a locator style grip thats comfortable.That system adds more weight than the others that some archers may find desirable.I had the fox Breed and did like it alot as far as function,strength,durabilty and grip.
Jack Harrisons newer 2 piece looks superbly designed as well.
You certainly cant leave out the jacknife in a discusson of 2 piece bows by great Northern.It has stood the test of time.It can be made with a locator grip as well.Simple,strong and functional.
The carbon/fiberglass adds very little weight. I would say un noticeable since no one knows my 2 piece are two piece unless they are apart. heavy bows still weigh more and light bows are still light. weight is more dependent on type of wood and size of bow than the takedown.
I have never had anyone tell me that my bows were heavy no matter what design unless they were talking about my go to. What would you expect of a 86# bow with a bow quiver full of 800g arrows. lol
Bigjim
The only two piece takedown I have uses the Bevelok, I would not recommend it.
that big jim sleeve system is a-callin' me ....
I am glueing up a new bow now,64" with a little reflex to it with a zebrawood riser and two phenolic accent stripes in it. I want to try the fiberglass sleeve, is carbon necessary? Where can I get it.
Rob,
In one of your pics of the Mohawk with sure grip it looks like the connexion hinge is screwed on the back of the bow. In other pics, like the onesyou have wig the leather grip, it appears the long part of the hinge (the part that takes the screws) is recessed so it is flush with the back of the bow. Is this correct? If so, does it seem to be in the way at all when mounted outside the lams as in the sure grip pic?
I'm wondering as with a retrofit it seems relatively easy to install over the back lams but difficult to recess in the lams.
Thanks,
Che
I didn't read the whole thread, but I can vouch for the bow-bolt system and rubber grib. I use that system on my Toelke. Can't even tell it's a two piece. I'm a big fan!
I am very pleased and impressed with the system Abe at Cari-bow uses.The key slot on the sides is an added alignment .
(http://peteward.com/2009photos/Caribowwolverine/2pc2.JPG)
(http://peteward.com/2009photos/Caribowwolverine/2pc1.JPG)
Vince told me he uses overlays to smooth out the recessed part of the take down. The one with sure grip may not have the overlays. I like the looks of the connection hinge and Big Jim's system.