Is a 400gr arrow at 165-170fps enough for deer out to 20-25yds from a well tuned set-up?
Absolutley, uncategorically not. :rolleyes:
Of course it is! :knothead:
Depends on your Bow weight at your draw length.As Fred Bear always specified at least 10 grns. of arrow weight per bow pound i.e. 50# draw wgt. = 500 grn arrow with broadhead.I preferr weight forward as in brass insert to bump up the arrow weight.You can also use a heavier brodhead instead of 125 grn.
Again,this is just my two cents!
Why does the bow weight matter?
Can a deer be killed with it,Yes.The question is should you?To get the best penatration from an arrow you should be shooting at least 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow weight.If you ad high front of center weight to the arrow you will get even better penatration.Alway shoot a good strong sharp broadhead.
I used to shoot 430grain arrows in that speed range and killed everything I shot with it(a few deer and a few HUGE pigs) exits or passthroughs on everything, ranges under 20yds
Why does bow weight matter?
It doesn't at all.
A 400gn arrow from a 50# bow is just as effective as a 400gn arrow from a 40# bow.
Every one seems hung up on the 10GPP thing. A 400gn arrow is a 400gn arrow. Out of a 50# bow it's relative weight is 8gpp, out of a 40# bow it's 10gpp. However, it's still a 400gn arrow!
QuoteOriginally posted by SPLITSHAFT:
Can a deer be killed with it,Yes.The question is should you?To get the best penatration from an arrow you should be shooting at least 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow weight.If you ad high front of center weight to the arrow you will get even better penatration.Alway shoot a good strong sharp broadhead.
So, your saying that if I shoot a 40# bow the arrow would be fine, but if I shoot a 50# bow it'd be ineffective????? Physics kinda passed you by didn't it?
Hit a bone and your shot will not penetrate very well. Ramp that weight up over 10 gpp or higher and put some weight up front. Lots of guys won't tell you about all the bad hits and lost animals they have in their hunting history. Light arrows can and will kill deer. If you form is bad, arrows don't fly perfectly, you hit a bone,.................................. You will have a wounded animal that is lost/ Totally not worth it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ragnarok Forge:
Ramp that weight up over 10 gpp or higher and put some weight up front..
If he's shootng a 40# bow, it already is ;)
"If you form is bad, arrows don't fly perfectly, you hit a bone,.................................. You will have a wounded animal that is lost/ Totally not worth it."
Getting to 10ggp won't fix any of that. If you hit them right your set up will kill deer. If you hit them bad, nothings ok.
:biglaugh:
..and if he's shooting 33# then his arrow is 12gpp...which is overkill, right? :biglaugh:
Seriously, it doesn't matter what the poundage is or what the gpp is....a 400 grain arrow traveling 170fps with a sharp bh will kill a deer when it's put in the goodies.
Mike
I since have increased my arrow weight to around 600grains for my 50# bow, for different reasons. Mostly because the High FOC helped accuracy and arrow flight with a bad release....BUT the 430grains worked just fine.
This set up would be for my daughter. These numbers are from her bow. Didn't give the bow weight as that causes all sorts of arguments. These are real world numbers, not hypotheticals.
Amazing how it gets back to draw weight.
Rob,
my physics agree w/ yours, hence, no draw weight listed,not applicable
Don't even worry about it :D Take her out & enjoy some time in the woods. If a deer presents itself & she feels comfortable & confident in the shot, it'll be an awesome memory for the both of you!
I'm pretty accurate with my 9 to 10 grains per pound, and the question is how far does the arrow need to go after it passes through the deer. I did notice the other day however that my arrow was striking 1/4" to the left at forty-five yards. I think it was a bow are issue.
Perfect arrow flight will trump weight in nearly every case, unless of course you are dropping a bowling ball on their heads from your tree stand.
Sharp broadhead....perfect arrow flight, and learn to use the search button.
When I was talking to the steel force rep at Denton Hill he said that one of his heads has set a record for lowest poundage deer kill I think it was in Mich. it was 22lbs I think he said. Thats even less than I would like to see anyone use I think 35lbs can work if done right that is my state PA limit. But lbs is not what you asked you asked about speed and that is what realy matters weight of the arrow and the speed it is traveling yes I think that is going to kill a deer. Widow
Greaseman...not that it matters but Bear used 9 grains per pound according to an interview that he gave which is covered in Dick Lattimer's book about him.
400 grains is plenty for deer.
400 gr. is plenty for deer and your grains per pound does equate to hunting but It's more important in assuring that your arrow absorbs all the bows energy. that way it's not like dry firing your bow. However a higher gpp will penetrate better to a point. Regardless of your gpp if you hit a bone you're gonna get poor penetration, period.
Sorry for the rant. In short, 400 gr. is fine.
George your post earlier today fits this thread to a "T".
"So, your saying that if I shoot a 40# bow the arrow would be fine, but if I shoot a 50# bow it'd be ineffective????? Physics kinda passed you by didn't it?"
I totally agree with what you are thinking here.
If there is such a thing as a "10 gpp" rule of thumb it should be as long as you are shooting a 55-60+ lb. bow.
George, you're a gem. Particularly like your reference to the search button. Since this question is posted weekly or more frequently, maybe it should be placed at the top of the thread along with Trad Gang Policies, Changing one's Avatar, etc. On the other hand, folks never seem to tire of beating this horse.
Original post by robtattoo,Quote...So, your saying that if I shoot a 40# bow the arrow would be fine, but if I shoot a 50# bow it'd be ineffective????? Physics kinda passed you by didn't it?
Sure it would be effective,but not as much.A 50# bow shooting a 400 grain arrow would put less of the bows energy into the arrow and you would get a little less penatration.The more of the bows energy that goes into the arrow will make the arrow more efficient.Thats why heavy arrows always penatrate better.This is just my opinion from my own experiences and testing.I never said a 400 grain arrow at 165-170 fps would not be ok to kill deer.It's all good!!
QuoteOriginally posted by Prairie Drifter:
Is a 400gr arrow at 165-170fps enough for deer out to 20-25yds from a well tuned set-up?
Those are the specs of the arrow....and it makes no difference what the bow weight its or the draw length that got it there. The arrow has a speed, and it has no clue about the bow or draw....it is what it is.
Yes, that is enough to kill a deer. I wish your daughter the best afield.
QuoteOriginally posted by SPLITSHAFT:
So, your saying that if I shoot a 40# bow the arrow would be fine, but if I shoot a 50# bow it'd be ineffective????? Physics kinda passed you by didn't it?
Sure it would be effective,but not as much.
Erm.....where to start.
Okay, back to basics.
If arrow of a given weight is flying at a given speed, it doesn't make a bit of difference what caused the arrow to get to that speed, be it a 10# bow or a 100# bow.
If however (You now, like in the REAL world) you shoot the exact same weight arrow out of 2 bows of different weights but identical design, it will always, always (seriously, always) travel faster out of the heavier weight bow. More speed equates to more energy. More energy equates to better penetration.
An example; My Morrison Cheyenne is 63# My Wife's Morrison Cheyenne is 34# My bow shoots a 688g arrow ar around 188fps (give or take) Now, how fast do you think Jules's bow shoots the same arrow? 188? Nearer 100fps
Therefore, a heavier bow will be more efficient with an arrow than a lighter bow.
Ergo, a 400gn arrow is a 400gn arrow & yes a 40# bow makes it 10gpp. A 50# bow makes it 8gpp & a hell of a lot faster/more effective.
See, every day's a schoolday! :goldtooth:
Yes, go hunting.
The only left is to make sure the arrows fly straight, group inside a pie plate at her maximum effective range, whatever that is, and put a good quality 2 blade, or one with a bleeder on the arrow, shaving sharp, and go have fun.
Having said that, some states have a minimum for draw weight, arrow weight or broadhead size, or restrictions on broadheads. Check it out.
Really funny--ignoring the facts presented in the first post to leap to the traditional arguments. Kind of says something about our culture.
How about if a sharp broadhead goes through both lungs will it kill whitetail?--Not unless it's at least 10 grains per pound from at least a 45 pound bow. :goldtooth:
Man that wore me out!! :biglaugh: Jason
Sometimes this is exaspirating, but slow down a minute and help the folks out.
There seems to be confusion, so get it un-confused.
Normally this question states the bow weight and arrow weight. But this time, a curveball was added. Bow weight was not mentioned... and for good reason ! We should all rejoice and take note of that.
From now on... maybe we should make that rule. No bow weight ! Why ? Cause sometimes a certain 55#, and a certain 50# and a certain 45# bow may actually launch an arrow, the same weight arrow... at the same speed.
As was said above.... the arrow don't know what bow pushed it, but it does know (??) how fast it is going.
It really isn't the bow weight we need to know, but rather the arrow speed that it will produce with the arrows you are planning to use.
Speed and weight are what is needed to calculate momentum or kinetic energy, which ever you use or believe in.
Aside from those calculations it is also used to just "look and figure out" if a given set-up is probably adequate to go thru a deer sized critter.
Did I make it worse ?
Remember speed and arrow weight are what's important to know.
ChuckC
Your set up is great. Don't forget the pics!
Yeah take the camera because if she shoots a deer in the side you will have pictures of two holes and a big smile to take. :thumbsup:
Here is one for you. Say I'm shooting a bow ?# and it shoots a 400gr arrow 180 f/s and a 600gr arrow 160 f/s. which is better?
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
Your set up is great. Don't forget the pics!
I 2nd that :campfire:
Gray,
I think you need a heavier bow.