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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Mr.Magoo on January 21, 2010, 05:18:00 PM

Title: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: Mr.Magoo on January 21, 2010, 05:18:00 PM
I'm fiddling with the 'dynamic spine calculator' and am a bit surprised by the results I'm getting.  

I'm plugging in the specs for my Bob Lee Hunter TD (55@29 and 3/16 past center, at least I think it's 3/16 past center) and I'm getting a dynamic spine of 78.1.  Sounds a bit high to me.

I know 2018's will fly fine from this bow, but on the calculator they're not even close ...
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: mmgrode on January 21, 2010, 05:35:00 PM
Is your bow a longbow or recurve?
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: Mr.Magoo on January 21, 2010, 05:36:00 PM
recurve ....
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: soopernate on January 21, 2010, 05:37:00 PM
The calculator's 3/16 is FROM centershot not PAST centershot....could that be your issue?
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: wtpops on January 21, 2010, 05:41:00 PM
If the bow is cut to 3/16 past center then you need to subtract the strike plate thickness. If it is 1/16 then you put on -1/8 if it 1/8 thick then you put in -1/16. Their is always the human factor also
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: saumensch on January 21, 2010, 06:06:00 PM
Now im interested!
does that mean if i have a bow that is 1/16 thicker build than the center, i substract the 1/16 of the strike plate and get to pu 0,0 in to the calc?
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: xtrema312 on January 21, 2010, 06:51:00 PM
Forget the riser cut.  It doesn't matter unless you don't have anything on the riser.  If the strike plate material face is 1/16" outside the string center or that much farther away from the riser then the center of the string it is +1/16.  If it is 1/16" inside the center of the string or closer to the riser than the center of the string it is -1/16".  I don't know anything about Bob Lee bows, but -3/16" sounds like a lot cut past center to a strike plate.
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: NDTerminator on January 21, 2010, 08:56:00 PM
From using the calculator, IMO it's darned accurate.

I use a piece of rug rest rather than a leather strike plate  on my Lee TD Hunter, and it's -1/16".  It's 52#@28", I draw 28.8", use FF string, and it has a calculated dynamic draw weight of 69.6.  I built several test arrows based on that draw weight to a calculated spine within 1#, and they shoot beautifully.

Based on that, and assuming you draw at least 28" & use FF, you might well be in the mid 70's, but I agree 78 & change seems high...


The calculator drop down box has both +/- center cut settings, BTW.


Hope that helps...
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: wtpops on January 21, 2010, 09:11:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by saumensch:
Now im interested!
does that mean if i have a bow that is 1/16 thicker build than the center, i substract the 1/16 of the strike plate and get to pu 0,0 in to the calc?
If your bow is cut past center you subtract side plate thickness if it is cut to center or thicker then you add side plate thickness.

If you bow is cut 1/16' before center and you have a 1/16" side plate you put in 1/8. The main thing is to put in actual center mesurement, dont forget to add or subtract side plate thinkness
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: Mr.Magoo on January 21, 2010, 09:37:00 PM
Thx guys.  I have a weatherest on the bow I'm monkeying with so I probably have the wrong center shot variable plugged-in.
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: hayslope on January 22, 2010, 10:23:00 AM
Overall, I think it is a very accurate tool to use.  I tried it out a few months ago on some new CE carbons for one specific bow. Fletched arrows were spot on.  Bare shafts grouped spot on as well, but were nock right, indicating stiff.  Had some folks tell me to ignore the nock right since they grouped tightly with the fletched shafts.  Fletched up the bare shafts and never looked back.

I've also recommended the calc to another guy and provided my own suggestions.  This guy had been having fits trying to match carbons to his very short draw BW.  He used it and had a bow shop put the arrows together to the calc's specs.  Spot on right out of the box.......another convert!
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: screamin on January 22, 2010, 09:17:00 PM
I was playing with it the other day and put in all the specs including the arrow I found flies best out of my bow. It nailed it, and the amazing thing is it hit the speed to within 3fps!
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: xtrema312 on January 23, 2010, 11:26:00 AM
I think it is more accurate than my form.  It needs a few bad form boxes for me.
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: daveycrockett on January 23, 2010, 11:53:00 AM
Just finished tuning a new to me bow. After deciding on my shaft and point weight went and plugged all the info in. My arrow combo was within .1 of requred spine. Pretty dang close!! 66.4 required and 66.5 the arrow I put together.    :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: daveycrockett on January 23, 2010, 04:00:00 PM
up
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: Possum2 on January 23, 2010, 04:10:00 PM
I shot a indoor tournament last night and tried a specific arrow and had the best scores ever never shot the arrows before  :banghead:  Went home plugged in the # and I was .5 difference in spine deflection can't get much better than that!
I like thae calc. just so I can play around and fine the best set up with enough FOC to my likeing.
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: Tyke on January 23, 2010, 04:27:00 PM
Where can a guy find this calculator?
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: zmeister on January 23, 2010, 04:36:00 PM
Here's the link to Stu's page where you can download it.  http://heilakka.com/stumiller/
I, too, think it is pretty darned accurate.
-Z
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: Tyke on January 23, 2010, 04:43:00 PM
Thanks alot "z".
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: daveycrockett on January 23, 2010, 06:22:00 PM
Just weighed my components, my is dead nuts.
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 23, 2010, 07:40:00 PM
imho, all spine charts - whether static printed or dynamic interactive - are helpful, but real world testing is always best.
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: ranger 3 on January 23, 2010, 07:46:00 PM
Is there any other way to open it besides Excel, I don't have it
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 23, 2010, 08:05:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by ranger 3:
Is there any other way to open it besides Excel, I don't have it
get and use the free 'openoffice' ...

http://www.openoffice.org/
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: TxAg on January 23, 2010, 08:25:00 PM
This thread peaked my interest so I went back and took a look at my inputs.  Since the last time I calculated (maybe 6 months ago) I've revamped my form just a bit so my drawlength is about 1/2" longer now. To acommodate, I recently bought arrows 1" longer just to be safe.  With the new data, I'm within 0.1, while I was within 5.0 before that.
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: daveycrockett on January 23, 2010, 08:39:00 PM
I really think it is fairly accurate if fed the right info. You know the old saying, garbage in garbage out.
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: ranger 3 on January 23, 2010, 10:23:00 PM
Thanks Rob, works like a charm
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: wingnut on January 24, 2010, 06:49:00 AM
I've been using and distributing Stu's calculator since it first came out.  What I find is you can be real close before you start testing.  Too many times I've wasted hours with combos that weren't close enough to adjust from.  With this I usually can take my points and go to work.  Set it up as designed and adjust point weight to weaken or strengthen spine as requires.

Had a customer the other day stop in and we designed an arrow.  He called Big Jim from the shop and ordered the shafts.
Fast forward a week and he had his shafts and fletched them up.  We again checked his drawlength and cut one arrow as designed in the program.

Took it out and it flew like a well arrow.

Set up number two for BAB (big a$$ broadhead)testing and started shooting two shot groups.  Made the nock point adjustment to move them together up and down.  They were hitting 4 inches left at 20 yds.  I went up 25 gr in point weight and they moved too center.  Added 25 grains more and they started stacking in the center every time.

What we found was that when he shoots, he ends up about 1/2" shorter on drawlength then when we tested him.  The additional weight makes the shafts slightly weak and thats exactly where we wanted them.

Took less then an hour and he walked away with the best shooting bow and arrow combo he's ever had.

Mike
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: ishoot4thrills on January 24, 2010, 09:18:00 AM
I like Stu's calculator. I think one of the most important entries is the one for the center-shot variation. If you're gonna enter something wrong, that's probably where it's gonna be. I think it's the most difficult one to get correct also. It's so important because it has so much influence on the final results and on arrow flight/spine.
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: NDTerminator on January 24, 2010, 09:46:00 AM
I don't know Stu but if I ever run across him I'm buying him a beverage of his choice.  Heck, I'll buy him a bunch.  At the cost of shafts nowdays, the money a guy will save in no longer flying more or less blind when trying/switching to something new is going to be substantial...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: hkmp5 on January 27, 2010, 12:12:00 AM
You guys are the best!  To hear that this DSC is helping others and that you find value in it makes all of the long hours it took to define the equations it uses all worth while.  My intent for it always has been to provide a simple tool that would get most shooters very quickly into the ballpark from which they could "fine tune" with actual shooting.  I totally agree with Rob that actual shooting by comparing fletched and bareshafts will always be the end-all decision maker for whether things are tuned correctly.  That said and based on the mass amount of feedback I have recieved from all over the world, I am very please on the accuracy that it is providing to the majority of shooter who take the time to check the inputs carefully.  Finally, thank you all also for the help you have provided along the way with real world shooting experience and feedback...I appreciate all the experience and good data out there!  I will continue to add features and improve it as best I can.  I also promise that it will forever remain a free gift to our fine trad achery community.
God bless,
-Stu
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: hayslope on January 27, 2010, 12:01:00 PM
Stu,

I am only one of the "grateful" souls out there that thank you for developing this tool.

I am also one that can appreciate the amount of time that it must have taken to work out the formulas (having much experience at doing exactly that when Excel's "canned" formulas don't quite fit the bill).

Your "calculator" has certainly lived up to expectations.  At my age, I can think of many things to do in the amount of time I've saved using this tool.  My hat's off to you sir!
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: lucky strike on February 01, 2010, 07:08:00 AM
This might help some guys that are confused about
the shelf cut on Stu's calculator as to +and -.
For right handers:( Lefties do the oposite)
1-Hold the bow looking at the belly(side facing you when you shoot)and center the string to the middle of the upper limb.
2-if you see a space between the string and the shelf to your right hand side that is a minus figure.IF you see no space it is center cut. And if you see the shelf going past the string to your left hand side that is a plus figure.
3- now take a piece of masking tape and put it acoss the upper limb at widest point-measure the with of the limb and put an ink mark on the tape at the center point-From there make a series of 1/8" lines on the tape left and right of center.Mark the center line on the tape as zero.
4- put an arrow on the shelf,and eyeball down the shaft and put the string directly on the inside edge of the arrow shaft-without moving look up and see what line the string is on your tape marks.then subtract or add it to the mark you made for limb center-This will give you almost perfect + or - measurement for the cut # to place in Stu's calculator.( if your getting say a 3/16 figure it's probably the shelf material-just subtract it-almost all bowyers work in1/8ths.

By the way -we should commend Stu for the work he put into it-If done correctly it is extremely accurate!
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: metsastaja on February 01, 2010, 11:39:00 AM
Kind of what lucky was saying
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/CenterCut_Measurement.jpg)
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: hkmp5 on February 02, 2010, 09:05:00 PM
Hello Hayslope,
Thank you sir for the kind words.  It is appreciation like yours that makes all the time and effort well worth while!
-Stu
Title: Re: How accurate is the 'dynamic spine calc.' ?
Post by: Freeze on February 02, 2010, 09:53:00 PM
hkmp5,

Just used it (again) the other day to help a buddy change shafts.

Thanks for the great contribution.

-Freeze