There are two look alikes that I know of. Bob Morrison sells one and the other is ???? Bob's are 300 gr and too expensive for my buddy who's had multiple Woodsman falures. The other comes in lighter weights and is non-vented as Bob's.
I think you are looking for VPA Terminators. Solid head. I think 3RA has the same thing under their name, too.
I heard the VPA and Woodmans are the same. Any truth?
Multple Woodsman failures? Can you specify the failures?
VPA Terminators sold by 3rivers are packaged and marketed as Woodsman Elites.....unless I have been lied to.
If I may ask, what kind of failures has your buddy had?
Exactly what Bill said!!
I shoot the non vented woodsman elites, and I am very happy with them They penetratre great, and shoot straight. do the terminators come non vented in all weights? I'd like to get a 145 non vented
I have just moved to the vented Woodsmans and have no complaints at all. I only shoot 40# and have awesome results!
The VPA terminators come in 125/150/175/200/250/300
non-vented screw-ons...160/190non-vented glue ons at this point :thumbsup: They are all sold bythe vendors listed on the VPA website...
http://www.vparchery.com/dealers.php
All are Trad Gang sponsors!!
I think he'll be leery of anything with the name Woodsman on it. Three bent over tips on doe ribs. And one $5000 trophy shot fee, with a bounce off of a rib. Admittedly not a 90 degree hit. Plus a bent over tip on a COUES DEER!!!!! That's probably smaller than the does. By the way, this is not out of one batch of BH's and probably over a 5 year period. None from when Wensels owned them. I would have dumbed them long ago.
Bowmania
The tips Will bend if you don't chisel them.I killed 2 javalina, a whitetail buck, a turkey, and 2 hogs with the same broadhead till the last hog tweeked a blade slightly off center.
In my experience, the non-vented Elites, or VPA Terminators, are more solid and tougher than the vented Woodsmans, plus the tip comes modified perfectly.
Craig
If I bent a certain head twice I would start tying to figure out why...I sure wouldn't wait till I bent the fifth one.
I've killed a pile of critters from bunnys to #2000 bison with the originals, and I haven't had one bend on a critter yet. I've buggered up a few on rocks. BUT!!! I have ALWAYS pyramided the tip. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot any north American game with the originals the way I have them set up.
I haven't tried the Elite yet or the VPAs...but I do like the way they both come. Better steel, level bevels, and tips already hunt ready.
If the VPA's bend over at the tip...I will buy a beverage of sorts...they will be around at K'zoo at the sponsors' booths!!
Terry,
Just for the sake of discussion, I used Woodsmans for two years and then switched back to Zwickeys before settling on Ace Standards. While I never messed up a Woodsman tip, I had a number of them come out the other side of deer with bent blades at the vents.
Thanks Jason....and to further the discussion...you know what a Zwickey fan I am....the WWs are now taking a back seat on hogs now that the No Mercy 4 blade is on the market. :thumbsup:
manyletters, I had a tip curl on a 200gr vpa terminator on this years whitetail hunt in Kansas. He was a decent size deer, 230# live weight. Arrow entered low third right behind leg on a quartering away shot, went thru and bounced off the top of the opposite side leg bone on its way thru. Tremendous blood trail on both sides and a short track, however I was somewhat discouraged to see the curled tip, I was able to file it out and use it only for practice now. But the broadhead had already done its job. I do still plan on using them.
no mercy 4 blade?!?!?!?
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
Thanks Jason....and to further the discussion...you know what a Zwickey fan I am....the WWs are now taking a back seat on hogs now that the No Mercy 4 blade is on the market. :thumbsup:
No doubt, Zwickeys are my favorite four-blade head. I always had great results with Eskimos and Deltas. How do the No Mercys compare to Deltas as far as price is concerned?
Yeah Rob....that's what I killed that Blockhead with down at Marty's.
After that kill....I done loaded up....fletching up a dozen arrows just like that one with the No Mercy 4 Blades for the St Judes back at Marty's next month.
Heck if I know Jason...soon as I saw they were out, I just ordered a dozen from BraveHeart and didn't even ask for a price. ;)
Heck if I can remember what I paid for them....but I done ordered another dozen as well, and didn't ask either. I'll have to go back and look at me CC statement.
I pounced on this post and...uggg...I'm still waiting for an original version in a heavier weight at an "original" price point. I've killed a bunch of deer and small game with the original 125 grn Woodsman and always recovered a perfect head, needle tip and all. I somewhat reluctantly switched to 190 Grizzly's, though, just to get more weight. I get that these are machined, but that just seems like overkill. I could probably buy machined washers, too, but...why? (Just sort of an economist-principle thing with me.)
I've read alot about Woodsman Elites and origional WW bending tips, (and I did file the needle point off) but the reason I quit shooting them was my 1st shot passed thru a doe then hit a small rock that literaly sheered the first 1/4in. off the point, as smooth as a band saw would have! 2nd shot hit buck high between shoulderblades on a 3yd. shot then lodged in sternum resulting in bent shaft where it screws in. No BH is perfect but I just "feel" more confident with a solid thick 4 blade. I killed 3 deer with the same Steelforce Phathead 190 after I switched back.
Man I've also killed a bunch of stuff with the originals since they came out and can only remember one that thr tip curled on a critter. But that was before I started to modify it a bit.
I do really like the non-vented heads that VPA is making now....I killed a coyote with a 1 1/4" 250 gr. non-vented screw on last fall. Also 4 hogs now with the 160 glue-on, non-vented mounted on 125gr steel adapters....
On this hog I shot a little high out of a tree stand and completely embedded the head in spinal vertebrae......
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/P1060157.JPG)
I needed the bh(didn't bring enough) so I carefully worked it out of the bone with some careful sawing...and it was unscathed!
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/P1060161.JPG)
Screwed it into another arrow and killed this hog with it the next day. Quartering away, hit the inside of the off shoulder....
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/P1060201.JPG)
Again it came out fine and is ready to kill more hogs next month. Like I said, I'm really impressed with the VPA's. But I still wouldn't hesitate a second to use an original WW on about anything that walks. They'll be in my quiver as well!
I too have had the originals collapse, and bend up even with the tip modified.
Hmmmmm, very interesting. I broke the tip plumb off a new Elite. Misse a turkey, hit a chunking size rock.
I snip the pointed tip with wire cutters and then file sharpen. Never had one bend. Always good blood trails. The new nonvented heads look good but I have a pile of the old ones, no complaints.
Oh Rob...here they are. The lean green penetration machine from Zwickey.
(http://images.imagelinky.com/1264166618.jpg) (http://images.imagelinky.com/1264166618.jpg)
I buried an Elite up to the shaft in a deers head this year, (the shaft hit a small limb on a quartering away shot and sailed high). Put a double lung pass thru with the second shot to finish him. The broadhead snapped off at the threads, but when I got the broadhead out of the skull it was completely unharmed other than the shaft being snapped off. Now I can't use it but for a head to be buried in a 200 lb deer's skull and be unharmed sold me. No broadhead would have not snapped off at the shaft with the arrow sticking out hitting trees. I will use the 250 grain elites untill they quit making them. Solid broadheads would have to be tougher than vented ones so there is no doubt in my mind that the solid elites or vpa terminators are tougher than the original vented woodsmans. Not to mention hasn't a broadhead done it's job when it kills an animal. I figure every kill I get after the first one is a bonus. We spend thousands on bows and go cheap on the business end. ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by SlowBowinMO:
Oh Rob...here they are. The lean green penetration machine from Zwickey.
(http://images.imagelinky.com/1264166618.jpg) (http://images.imagelinky.com/1264166618.jpg)
mmmmmm, looks killer good.
you got an incoming order! :wavey:
Zwickeys are hard to beat :)
I used the Elite this year to take my deer. Initial shot was high, burying into the spine. The follow-up, however, was a passthrough that double lunged him. That one struck a rock on his path out the other side; only minor tip damage.
I'm sold...
QuoteOriginally posted by HATCHCHASER:
We spend thousands on bows and go cheap on the business end. ;)
I've noticed that too, Hatch. Any stick do for bow; The arrow and broadhead are the important part.
I've been wondering since I first saw them in the 3R catalog: what's the difference between the new Zwickey and the old ones? What makes them so much better?
Hmm... I might need to get some of those new zwickey no mercy in the four bld. I still haven't quite gotten the handle on sharpening them. I like the way those zwickeys with the bleeders fly compared to most of the three blade broadheads I have used.
Having that bleeder sit farther forward in relation to the back edge of the blade looks like a killer.
Lost a 150" buck on what should have been a double lung shot at 18 steps with a bow setup that already had 5 complete pass-throughs. almost no penetration, almost certain a bent tip on near side rib. Original woodsman with needle tip. The only needle tip in the quiver. Never thought that would happen on a deer that would dress 130 #. I should have known better. un-needle the tip and it is a great head.
"Not to mention hasn't a broadhead done it's job when it kills an animal. I figure every kill I get after the first one is a bonus. We spend thousands on bows and go cheap on the business end."
I ditto what HATCHCHASER wrote above.
I love three blade heads like the older style WW, and now the new VPA's as well. But dang it Terry... a 4 blade Zwickey! I love the look of that head! Might have to foot up some green crested arras just for them!
ak.
I just wish STOS would make a 4 Blade like that as well. That would be a match made in heaven... or hell if your a critter down range!
ak.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin Bahr:
I've been wondering since I first saw them in the 3R catalog: what's the difference between the new Zwickey and the old ones? What makes them so much better?
If you're asking about the No Mercy versus the Eskimo or Delta, the difference is only geometry. The No Mercy is basically a slimmed version of the Delta (the original prototypes were exactly that).
I've killed a pile of critters with woodsmans and have never had a failure. Just snip the tip off a little before you shoot them. Sometimes I shoot them with the needle tip, and they will ocassionally bend a tad, but a little work with a file straightens them right out. I have not tried any of the new ones, but I love the originals. I also love the big snuffers.
From what I've read the No Mercy has harder steel than the previous Zwickeys.