Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: NDTerminator on January 20, 2010, 11:05:00 PM
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How much effort is involved and how difficult is it to build flemish twist strings? Been turning over giving it a try. Don't figure there will be any real savings as I usually only replace strings every other year, but learning another aspect of archery is always fun, and a little more self-reliance is a good thing these days...
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They are not hard to learn really.
Tom from RMSG put this out a while ago. Had to learn how to get my length right but can build them in under thiry mins now.
http://www.rmsgear.com/tutorial_string_2bundle.htm
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learning how to make the strings if a fun challenge. It actually is very simple and you can make several strings on 2 1/4 pound spools of thread. and a spool of serving thread.
I started making them cause I do not like Endless loops and seen Flemish all over a Auction site. I did my research and Built a string Jig that is posted in the How two section on here. A couple of You tube Video's later I was twisting strings up just for the fun of it.
2 spool of thread and a spool of serving roughly 21 dollars give or take a few bucks. Buying from someone else 8-12 dollars a piece. Knowing you built the string from Materials Price-less.
Go for it, it is Fairly easy to do.
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Remember to always twist away from yourself.
Jim
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If you’re going to learn I'd suggest a FF material like D-97. I started on Dacron and it's like trying to twist a sponge at times (of course I didn’t realize this until I twisted my first FF string). D-97 and 8125 just love to be twisted...loops come out nice...fades are even.
If you learn to twist with Dacron it will be cheaper, but if anyone is close to you they might want to plug their ears...good thing I make them in the basement after everyone is asleep.
It took me more than I care to admit to get good enough to sell them but I’ve made over 200 in the last 6 months so I guess I’m just gluten for punishment! I figure if a person is going to spend X amount on a bow (usually X = a lot of $$$$) then I don’t send bad strings out. If I wouldn’t shoot it on my bow or if it doesn’t look right (even if the person I’m selling it to wouldn’t notice) I won’t send it out. I made three Monday to get the two I needed and three last night to also get the two I needed for shipments. Sometimes I wonder…
Get the board marked out with numbers on every peg hole and keep detailed notes on what each peg hole produces with a certain combo…# of loop twists, number of strands, different materials all make a difference. Heck wax content from color to color of the same material can make a difference.
I could go on and on…
Josh
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It's not hard at all. Good instructions are the key, and a board marked for string length (not bow length). The "catch" is once your shooting buddies learn you are making strings, you'll be making a few. A good thing in a way--keeps you in practice.
Chad
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It's a fundamental skill, one that has done as much for mankind as any I can think of off hand, right up there with making fire and I'm not exaggerating. Think about it.
Making a string from stands is so simple it's darn near impossible to describe in words. I don't know if Chad (LBR) above will get in trouble, and he is evidently modest, but he makes a hell of a good string and made a dvd you might still be able to buy from him.
I second the notion you should invest in a spool of FastFlight, skimp on the serving material (nylon) if you must. 1 smallest spool is plenty to start, FF goes a long way as it's strong for it's weight (sold by weight) and it doesn't take much. 4200' of B50 costs $8, 8900' of FF $21 and being twice as strong you don't "need" as much FF to make a string.
Now, twisting up from natural fibers to make all sorts of stuff, string, rope, woven baskets, that's where the utility of the skill becomes obvious. I'm liable to bust me a test string impromptu outa most any kind of loose fiber at hand, just to see how it will work.
On bowstrings, I've made so many it's just a cotton pickin' hassle anymore.
Definately a skill an avid archer should endeavor to master. As with most skills, it takes some tries to get good at it, and there's more too it than it first seems.
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It's definitely worth learning. I always bring a spool of string when I go on a hunt in case I break a string and need one in a pinch.
If you made it to Fargo on a Tuesday evening we have our traditional league and I could certainly show you then, I'm sure others would be interested in watching. Plus we have a number of other archers who've made flemish strings before.
Jason
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Originally posted by LBR:
It's not hard at all. Good instructions are the key, and a board marked for string length (not bow length). The "catch" is once your shooting buddies learn you are making strings, you'll be making a few. A good thing in a way--keeps you in practice.
Chad
Good point about the friends...not that I mind at all. It does keep you on your toes and it will almost always put a smile on someone’s face.
Josh
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It is worth learning, and you are right about the fiscal benefits. By the time you serve them, it takes a fair amount of time.
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Not much worry on friends asking for strings, as I can count the trad bow guys in the Lake Region on one hand with a finger or two left over...
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It can be a little tricky to learn the flemish twist but you can usually take them apart and redo them if there is some problem. I have done that on several strings and I even took apart four 6 strand strings that I didn't want and made two 12 strand strings.
I obtained a jig off the web and made several strings with it. The AMO marks were off and the strings came out way too short at first. So I had to figure that out and make the adjustments. I also didn't like the length of the loops as I felt that the guy who designed it was a little too frugal with the string material. The loops didn't have enough overlap. So I changed the center nail setting again to compensate for a longer loop.
I also added a new row of nails so I could just wind on extra loop padding. When I make the "two" cuts now on each bundle, they are ready to twist. I think it is much quicker and easier and the padding strands are perfectly staggered on both ends. But I had to move the other end of the jig further down and again compensate the length with the center nail. This keeps the center nail from over lapping into the padding strands. Got to post pics of this jig soon.
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Jon, alot of good info here for sure! I always tell folks who want to try, if you have an old string, take it apart or untwist one loop. Kind of gives an idea of whats going on.
Even purchasing a spool of nylon serving and serving tool, small investment, and learn to serve your own. Practice, and unwind it and do it again.
Just like in fishing, learning to tie on your own lures.
Myself, today, if I was new to this, with all the array of servings and materials, a little daunting to say the least!
If intersted, give me a holler and I can send you some material for a string to try.
It is fun making your own! :)
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So to get started, a guy needs a jig, some string material, serving material & server (have both of these). Anything I'm missing?...
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You don't need a jig, I'm sure it helps but I've never used one. I just make them by measuring the strands using a tape measure.
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Yep--a jig isn't required, but helps--especially if you make many strings.
ND, I didn't think to offer earlier but if you can make it to a shoot down this way (TN Classic, Howard Hill, Jerry Pierce, etc.) I'll be happy to sit down with you and try to help.
Thanks for the good word DCM!
Chad
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save yerself time and frustration, and probably money too - go get chad's "doin' the twist" string video. all ya need to know is right there for ya to reflect on if and when ya need help. chad also covers endless strings real well, too.
http://www.recurves.com/dvds.html
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+1 on the "Doin' the twist" dvd. It explains the process very well.
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Once you do make your first string, you'll ask yourself why everyone doesn't. It's not difficult. It would be a good idea to have someone walk you thru the first one. Remember opposite twist is what holds it together. I tell everyone to be sure that if you start twisting with the right hand finish with the right hand.
Patrick
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NDT...
got beaten to the punch on "Doin' the Twist". Add me to the :thumbsup: crowd on it. Shows you everything you need to know - how to make a jig, twist the string, serve it, etc. I just recently started making flemish strings myself and it only took two attempts before I got the hang of it and can turn out a decent string. It's really not hard but there are some points ya need to know-such as putting in "back twist". That right there was worth the cost of the video.
Go for it, it's really not hard.
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Kinda figured to buy a how-to video and I've heard good things about LBRs for awhile.
Was watching the 3R how to on youtube yesterday and another question comes to mind, although I belive I'm looking for confirmation to what I think rather than a hard answer...
Looks to me like that with a jig, the demonstrator is building two bundles of one color per sitting. Then it follows to build the two color two bundle I normally buy, a guy has to do this process twice with a single color each time, and ends up building two strings rather than one? Or is each setup on the jig a single bundle so it's necessarry to make two for a two bundle string?
While I'm at it, would someone care to explain padding the string and how it's done?
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ndt - just get the dtt video. nothing on youtube can compare, and i've checked them all out.
padding is for string loops on marginal or skinny strings, where the strand count is low. for flemish, you just add in staggered lengths of separate, short strands to each loop bundle. with endless, it's adding strands around the loop end jig arms.
with a 6 strand skinny endless string i'll add 6 strands of the string fiber to each loop.
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I've never used a jig for the perhaps hundert strings I've made. I just pull off strand and hold it up against the braced bow, overlap what looks like enough on each end. Longer is better than shorter, then you can trim once the string is done if necessary. Made dozens before I ever bought a serving jig. 40# or 50# "Spiderwire" or other braided fishing line (Dyneema) works perty good for serving material if you can find it cheap (Walmart closeouts at the end of fishing season). Just volunteering.
On a two color, two ply you first measure and cut one color, staggering the ends if you don't use a jig. Then just build another ply (same number of strands 1/2 the total count obviously) the same way. Then you twist these two different colored plys together. Same with a 3 ply for that matter, just 1/3 total strand count for each ply.
Padding loops is when you cut some strands perhaps 8" to 10" long, again staggering the ends. I do this by starting with equal lenght strands, then just offset some of them. Then you wax these into your primary bundles, where the loops will be, before you start twisting each loop.
For "skinny" strings I find padding the center to be a pain, so I just either double wrap serving, use enough primary strands in the main string, or a fat enough serving material to fit my nocks. There's a recipe for each string material, serving material and nock size. I find 15 strand FF, single wrap Nylon fits the Bohning 5/16" index nocks I prefer.
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I have Chad's video and it really helps a lot. It confirmed some things for me. I watched it in the beginning (nov 09) and I just watched again and it is kind of funny how you develop your own style. My method is very different from what I saw a couple of months ago.
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A string jig will definately make it easier.
My jig is made from a 2 x 4 and finishing nails with a dowel for different lengths. There is nothing that is going to beat experience. The more you make, the better they will be.
And by the way. You don't have to twist away from you. I do it by twisting toward me, and it works just fine.
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Personally, I enjoy many if not all aspects of working on my gear, if for no other reason than to have a better understanding and appreciation of what it takes to get things right.
My first Flemish string, or two, took in the vicinity of an hour and a half and it wasn’t long ‘til I was down to about 25 minutes. For a jig I just banged a few nails in a board which has definitely proven worthwhile with having my strings come out to a predictable length (after making adjustments to my original markings).
Where this doesn’t end is not just having backup strings for my bows, or providing strings for friends, but all the bows out there that are dust collectors without them. It really makes my day to pick up an old bow, clean ‘er up and outfit it with a new string from my own hands…it truly becomes a bow again. Rick.