i've been thinking of purchasing an ilf metal riser and shooting with a rest. is this still traditional shooting/ hunting to you?
I think traditional means fair. If shooting the combo you mentioned above still requires you get within 20 yards of your prey, then yup your still traditional.
YES YES
go for it. those ilf bows are supposed to be pretty awesome shooters. Like everything in the world, everyone has their own way of interpreting things. If we all thought the same thing, life would be pretty boring.
Black Widow made Metal risers and shot elavated rests many, many years ago and they were'nt the only ones. Elavated rests have been around for along time, I have be doing this since 1966 or 67 and back then they were popular. I think if you like it ....go for it!!!
shoot what you like...no need to worry about what is trad. or not. all my recurves have metal risers. although i have wood bows, i dont ever think about if one is more trad than another. just have fun. everyone likes different things...like all my buddies that carry magnum bolt action rifles, me i like my old marlin, not because it more traditional...it just shoots well for me.
I shoot aluminum arrows. I don't see the problem with shooting a metal bow.
If there are no cams, it is traditional in my book.
no training wheels!
Go for it. We got this one guy in our camp at denton hill who shoots a DAS we rough him up a little bit but for the most part his bow out performs ours. An there is no sight or training wheels. Shoot whatever works best for you. Ya have got to be comfortable with your rig
What kind of bow is it?
Yes
I'm an archer who hunts with what works for me. I'll leave the definitions to those who think they need them.
We never used the term traditional bow, in our everyday language, until the compound came along. Think about that.
Now we seem to attach some ethereal component to the term traditional and make it into an ambiguous concept. It's just a bow with no wheels.
Now some history: Metal arrows were here in the 1930's and were used in the mid 30's National Target Tournament. If World War II hadn't happened, we would have seen aluminum arrows in the hunting field in the 1940's. The war put a ban on aluminum until it was over.
Metal risers? The first metal riser takedowns were introduced in 1952. That wasn't a typo! Grimes Archery and Par-X archery both had early 50's metal riser takedowns. Black Widown had them in the late 1960's with their HT and HF series. Black Widow didn't have a wood riser takedown until the 1980's.
It's always interesting seeing how people want to categorize things per their perspective on the sport. Traditional archery is utilizing bows and other equipment that was available before the compound device came along. So you can shoot an aluminum risered Golden Eagle from 1967, aluminum arrows and a Reynolds sight, and be as traditional as anyone else.
No wheels, it's traditional
Like George said Traditional, maybe, is a wrong world;I think that compound bows are mecanicals and altrough they cast a arrow they are something different for the different Physic in their design.
sans training wheels
SSSZZZnnnznznznnnnnn..(snoring sound ;) )
Go shoot what you like and enjoy archery!
You're a bowhunter my friend and well said George. Most all my hunting buds choose to use compounds. To each his own I say. I always include them under the same category as I do myself, as bowhunters. I don't try to categorize anyone and don't think we should.
The sport we love is under attack daily. We need to stick together. We do segregate ourselves somewhat by even belonging to sites as "Tradgang" but my hope is it's simply because we all choose to enjoy our sport of bowhunting in the same manner. I also know a lot of us came from, or have dabbled in compounds at some point in our time. Another thing I know is when I shot a compound I considered myself a bowhunter.
On the other hand, I've often debated the following:
A friend of mine - an older gentleman - is having shoulder problems to the point where he can't shoot more than a 30# bow and he is almost out of that.
He said he would rather quit shooting then shoot a compound.
I can't agree with that statement. I would have a hard time NOT being able to do something.
If one shot a stripped down compound with no sights, finger release, standard broadheads, feathered arrows, and still stalked game at 20 yards, wouldn't that be somewhat traditional?
Traditional with assistance maybe? :campfire:
A bow that demands total commitment and highly developed skill from an archery, to be nothing more than a bending stick and string.
Nothing that makes shooting a bow easy, aside from mental clarity and dedication to practice.
Beautiful equipment; wood, leather, skins, feather fletchings, and in our time the advantages that fiberglass and modern string materials provide.
The company of like minded friends.
Just remember (well, SOME of you can actually remember) - long before "Trad" came about as an add-on to archery or bowhunting, it was just "plain ol' archery or bowhunting. As I recall, I remember lots of folks adding sights of various sorts on their recurves. I could never force myself to put holes in my bow, so I never went "there". I would venture to guess you might still to this day find an old Bear hunting bow in an attic somewhere that has some sort of old sight mechanism mounted on the riser.
As for ILF, metal risers and rests, well, go for it. I doubt that it will increase your range much, but if it helps with accuracy and consistency AND it works for you....well.....You can't really say that it isn't traditional. Some folks may differ on the metal riser part, but it's not really giving you much of an advantage. I would say that most modern longbows and recurves are much more efficient that their older counterparts. I doubt that anyone would say it isn't traditional because it's more efficient. You're still dealing with a stick and string.
bent stick(s) + string = 'traditional'
Limbsaver, sorry for you. You don't agree with your friend because you don't understand.
Read Ghost Dog, that is what your friend feels.
Shoot with whatever you want, & don't worry about being "traditional".
Uh....I meant Limblover.
And yes Rutandstrut, imo, thats traditional.
i shoot all wood bows and aluminum arrows.my choice,your choice is yours.no training wheels pretty much says it all.i prefer wood and wont shoot metal handled bows but i use aluminum arrows.everyone has different taste.
Me thinks George shot a robin hood with his post!
No wheels = trad to me. What trad means to you is what really matters. Shoot what you want. I shoot wood bows with carbon and aluminum arrows.
No wheel's for me also. But myself, I would have a hard time hunting with an aluminum riser. I just love my wood longbows.
i shoot Hill style bows with wooden arrows and have hunted with nothing else for over ten years . i don't wear camo etc ... am i trad ? don't know and don't really care 'cause i also play with and shoot Ilf bows with metals risers and , heaven forbid , my new one has sight pins on it !!!
roll with what feels good and floats your boat and don't let anyone tell you different ...
ben
What's become traditional today is one of the major things that's made me what I am today.
It's what's set me apart from the crowd for the last 40 years.
It's been the single most constant thing in my life.
I used to say we were an elite,,but that words not very popular now days,I'm not suppoused to say it anymore,,,,so,,, I guess I won't.
But I think you get the idea,Trad means a whole lot to me that's not so much about the equipment,but a heck of a lot about the mind set and life style of shooting a real bow of any type.
QuoteOriginally posted by vermonster13:
I'm an archer who hunts with what works for me. I'll leave the definitions to those who think they need them.
+1!!!
Todd
I'd say any thing with out wheels, sights, stablizer and release. That's hard enough for me with out getting to picky.
Tradition, Knowledge or customs handed down through the generations. Traditional means following traditions. This site is making traditional hunters by passing down info. to the next generation.
I have to agree with earthdog, and everybody else as well. I made the switch to trad gear about five years ago and just the fact of having to close the gap and be able to put it in the spot with no wheels or sights makes feel like I accomplished more than with a wheelie bow.
Great stuff
What is traditional to me?
I've been around "traditional" as a concept for a long, long time. When I was a kid, muzzle loaders weren't traditional, they were just grandpa's guns, and all we kids were allowed to shoot. Later on, as a practical matter, I learned to sew, on a treadle sewing machine. It wasn't traditional, just grandma's sewing machine. As a boy, early 50's, archery was wood or alum. arrows and lemonwood longbows, or, if you were wealthy, fiberglass Hills or early Pearson and Bear recurves.
I've thought about it a lot, and, to an old phartt like me, most of you all have converted the concept of traditional from WHAT you shoot to HOW you shoot. To me, "traditional" means you're trying to use the SAME equipment that was in common use at a specific time and see if you can do as well with it as the people of that time did. Note I said "common use". That doesn't mean that maybe you can find an example of a developmental variation of that time, but what the bulk of folks really did use. The Ferguson rifle was a breech loader in the Revolutionary War, but it doesn't make breech loaders trational to the 1700's.
Most of the conversation on boards today consists of talk of things that are not traditional to me... RD bows being called longbows (which they ain't, rules aside), metal risers (a few of which existed back in the day, but weren't in common use, which is why they caused so much discussion, and were, in fact, about as detested as wheel bows are today), use of modern materials, etc.
These are developmental things, not traditional things... and God bless 'em for it. Where would we be without development? However, I hope there is still someone out there besides me who can see the ROTFLMAO humor in a recent thread title I came across on one of the "traditional" boards: "Carbon/foam vs. glass/foam vs. glass/wood". To me, that's funny enough, without even going into the use of tv cameras in the woods by "traditional" hunters.
I know I can't change the world, or even shift its direction any, but I sure can chuckle as it marches by.
Dick in Seattle
The Old Phartt
QuoteOriginally posted by Earthdog:
What's become traditional today is one of the major things that's made me what I am today.
It's what's set me apart from the crowd for the last 40 years.
It's been the single most constant thing in my life.
I used to say we were an elite,,but that words not very popular now days,I'm not suppoused to say it anymore,,,,so,,, I guess I won't.
But I think you get the idea,Trad means a whole lot to me that's not so much about the equipment,but a heck of a lot about the mind set and life style of shooting a real bow of any type.
I like that "ELITE" thing let's stick with that over traditional or primitive. We the ELITE shooters!! Elite man that kinda just flows.. Lol
QuoteLimbLover, sorry for you. You don't agree with your friend because you don't understand.
I don't really understand what you meant by that. I love to shoot traditional bows and bowhunt more than anything. I totally understand his pain but I would find a way to do something I wanted to continue doing and there are ways.
Traditional to me is buckskin underwear...LOL :biglaugh:
Just shooting an animal on its terms with no mechanical devices or high tech crap plain and simple wood bow and wood arrows and lots of patience.
In Norway, the tournament rules for traditional is basically none-very mild rd longbows only, no metal parts, just stick+string with no arrowshelf. Not even silencers are allowed!
Some horsebows are allowed, I think..
But to me, longbow/recurve/horsebow, all wood, no glass, external arrowshelf, no metal is what I personally define as traditional.
Basically, what a bow looked like 500 years ago and older..
I do not mind other stuff, but would not deem it as 'core' traditional!
So, I shoot a TD recurve with silencers and shelf, because I like it :)
No wheels, pulleys or mechanical advantage and your in...
For me a metal handled bow is just too close to a compound. I love the warmth and beauty of wood.
No wheels !!!
I guess to me it has to do with no wheels or sights.Just bending some type of limb with a string and placing and arrow where you want it with your own God given and practised ability.
I used to shoot takedowns with metal handles Bear and Black widow, the widow was very fast. I put goop on the grip so it would not be so cold, it became traditional when it stopped freezing my hand.
No let off when you reach full draw, that's traditional to me.
Wow this is funny. this thread is going on forever. Have fun
On the other hand I am thinking of what would be consider as non-traditional archery? Would it be shooting wooden recurve/longbow from a moving chariot or somthing? Or when shooting arrows while walking or running?
I just purchased from two different sources a half dozen unused large size Pearson Deadheads. To me they scream traditional. i can still see that big Deadhead floating through the air after it passed through the first large buck I ever shot many years ago. Should I use them or should I collect them? I wonder with my 52 pound at 26 robertson longbow, will it be enough for the big heads. It would in a way be a journey back through time for me. Is that enough of a traditional situation to justify sharpening them?
Something you do that someone meaningful to you, did before you. Archery is the tradition, not the objects you use to associate with it. I was schooled in the line of thought that if it wasnt a selfbow made of wood, then it wasnt traditional. I no longer feel that way and I have alot more fun. But hey thats just me. Never followed directions well, much less the rules. :rolleyes:
QuoteOriginally posted by vermonster13:
I'm an archer who hunts with what works for me. I'll leave the definitions to those who think they need them.
Hit it right on the head Dave. If it's traditional to you then that's all that matters. After all aren't we all hunting because we enjoy it. Nobody is hunting for someone elses enjoyment, don't worry about what anyone else thinks. :thumbsup:
i have been shooting a bow since the mid fifties. i believe it's a tradition on the internet to argue and the term "traditional bow" lets you do that.
mr. chessman made deflex/reflex t.d. longbow limbs for his extruded aluminum riser in the early fifties. he was also a champion target shooter at distances much longer than 20 yards.
poor guy just didn't know how untraditional that was.
I always thought "traditional" was shorthand for anything that isn't a compound.
When I meet another bowhunter who shoots a compound and he asks what I shoot I either say Recurve or Traditional, and don't bother with the details. Why would I? He has no idea about the various type of "traditional" bows. Matter of fact, until I started reading this forum, I didn't either.
Who cares who thinks it is or isn't traditional? If you want to shoot one, shoot it and enjoy it...if it bothers you or you just enjoy other types of bows more, then don't shoot them.
Do what you want to do - you can take trad to so many levels of hard!! I really admire those folks that build their own stuff, stone points and all - but I also know thta is not me - love my curves too much - fiberglass and all.
Everyone limits themselves the way they wish, whatever makes it fun to you!!
J
I think that for me "traditional" is largely a philosophy.
1) Shooting arrows is fun.
2) Ethical kills are the first consideration when hunting.
I have never made a bow and I've shot POC, laminated birch, hexpine, aluminum and carbon fiber arrows. All my bows right now have some fiberglass in them. I still own the compound I was given for my 14th birthday in 1986. I also own two longbows that I shoot often. The compound hasn't made it out of the case for a long time.
I never understood what traditional referred to, regarding equipment. Just how old is the "tradition" of carbon fiber and fiberglass, anyway? You can always move to older equipment, but does that make you a better archer?
For me, Traditional means what's in my head when I'm shooting.
Good friends having fun shooting.
Hunting and having to get REALLY CLOSE!
Accepting that I could always improve my shooting by falling back on some more technology and (for me) resisting the urge to do so. (But would that make you a better archer?)
Fun question. Thanks for posing it.
Kirk Billings
Shoot what you want and what works for you. It shouldn't matter what you shoot... just enjoy. :archer:
If it is trad to you then that is all that matters.
What is "traditional" to me?
A whole lot of fun, and pure class!
To me - Traditional archery means no sights, wood in a majority of the working part of the limbs, shooting off the shelf or off the hand.
Get the bow you like. Not the bow everyone else likes.
non-compond period.....Its not the riser that makes the diffrence,it the limbs.
You bet,if you like it go for it.But for me i like wood.
QuoteOriginally posted by craig1955:
No wheels, it's traditional
That pretty much sums it up nicely for me as well.
I liked Georges answer.
If it doesn't have wheels, it's what I would think of as a traditional bow.
Frankly, I'm not fond of the title "traditional bowhunter". I don't feel the need to seperate myself. I'm just a bowhunter, too dumb to run a compound
:) :) :) :bigsmyl:
Well, after a lot of thought (and I am by no means condemning anyone) my definition of traditional archery is:
No wheels, no mechanical release, no sights, off the shelf.
I agree that traditional bowhunting is a different story. Far too subjective to touch on here.
... its more a feeling and shooting style !!! than equipment to me !!!
QuoteOriginally posted by getstonedprimitivebowhunt:
... its more a feeling and shooting style !!! than equipment to me !!!
That is a pretty good way to say it.
QuoteOriginally posted by getstonedprimitivebowhunt:
... its more a feeling and shooting style !!! than equipment to me !!!
Very well said!
I own and have competed with compound bows; enjoy it. Shooting a wheel bow that can put the arrow in the same hole everytime as long as the archer does his job is an extreme personal challenge (burden) on the shooter.
Shooting a bent stick does not remove the personnal challenge or responsibility but it brings back the joy (fun) of seeing the arrow fly and knowing you sent it. My recurves and longbows are more like friends; the compound a technological tool. My longbows welcome the time I spend with them, they are never used....Maybe this is getting too deep (crazy)?
Traditional to me is a time in the past (think late 60's) when game was plentiful, hunter sightings were few and no one cared what your weapon of choice may be, as we were all hunters.
I miss those days.
Traditional has become a label that was not asked for, to distinguish the archery that led to compound bows. Although there is not much claim to anything "new" in traditional, it has never refrained to seek improvement, and always made use of the best of what was on hand.
Without compounds, archery would still look a bit different than it did prior to the 70's and there would still be some fussin' about anything "new"...but only where "competition" enters the equation. And, aside from competition there is simply no argument with people shooting the way they want to.
That said, when compounds came on the scene it was easy to see that more people who would have given up on shooting a bow within 2 weeks before, would now have a better chance of lasting longer...if the rewards were available without having to do the same work. I actually thought that was a good thing but somehow failed to guess at what the future held in store and how quickly I'd belong to a minority, viewed with some disregard by those who pump the most money into the sport (...not entirely a negative).
Metal risers and no longer shooting off my hand (...and digging feathers out of it) is not something archery wouldn't have seen otherwise. I enjoy shooting my Bear magnesium takedown as much as any other of my "traditional" bows, and aluminum arrows allow me to spare my woods for more serious business.
Where I can now get a bit more extra pleasure is seeing the bows I used before the 70's increase in value, where that's certainly not been the trend for even last year's compound models. And that might not make it into anyone else's definition of traditional...but "maintaining/increasing its original value" works for me. Rick.
I agree with George.
We shoot longbows, recurves and stickbows. No matter what's the material. No wheels.
I love traditional because:
1) how the arrow wood smells when your building arrows,
2)because of the different types of woods my bow is made of.
3)because my bow is custom and was made to my specs.
4)Because it takes my ability and practice to hit the target. (I'm not using sights)
5) I get to wear cool back quivers
6) I get to wear an cool arm quard.
7) I've meet the nicest people over the years and my closest friends shoot stickbows.
8) I use feathers, not a plastic vane.
Darren
Nothing except hickory, osage, and sinew. Maybe a little flint.
I forgot yew.