My family just got a puupy dacshund golden retriever mix. wanted to know if any one can give me some advice for training her to recover deer. She is 7 weeks old. Thanks for your help.
PM Ryan Rotthar and he can give you some good pointers.
Thanks Leatherhead
LEATHERNECK!!!!!! not leatherhead. lol: :bigsmyl:
Get you the book "Tracking Dogs for finding Wounded Deer". Great book wrote by folks that have been doing this a long time with lots of good advice. I've been training my JacK Beagle mix and she's been doing great till lately we've had three feet of snow and neither of us venturing to far from the house!
QuoteOriginally posted by leatherneck:
LEATHERNECK!!!!!! not leatherhead. lol: :bigsmyl:
Same thing..........
Marty McMahon trained his beagle by dragging her back onto the bloodtrail everytime she got off of it. It only took him about 2 years that way but I wouldn't recommend it.
The puppy obviously had some very determined and creative parents and should be a good tracker! :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
Like LC recommended the book is a must read.
Also get lots of liver, hide, and blood for training.
I am no expert but if you have any questions feel free to PM me.
:goldtooth:
Semper FI
Bill
Exactly! Thank God for leatherheads
:notworthy:
Well my dad was a leatherneck and my son. So I guess I'll go with marine. Proud to be the son and the father of one.
BTW use blood and hides to get the dog going and make it fun with rewards. It will be good for both of you.
Mike (always a marine at heart)
Leatherheads played kiddie football us leathernecks belong to the worlds largest gunning club and we play for keeps.Semper Fi my brothers.Biggie and oh-bowhunter must have some army in the loins
Nothing wrong with Army personal.. I'm proud to have served in The Greatest Army on Earth... The U.S.Army, But I have Brother's & Sister's in all the other Services.
Now back to Our Show....
In the off season how do you train Your dog.. I mean if you use tree rats will the dog even go and look for deer or hogs? or would they only go trailing tree rats?
First off I am not a professional trainer. A blood tracking dog if trained properly tracks blood. The dog by training knows what the task at hand is by the collar, the command and if the dog is on lead or off lead. Can a dog that has not been bred to blood track find deer? I'm sure they could. If you are serious about purchasing a blood tracking dog do yourself a favor and do your homework. Before you spend the time and effort in trying to train a dog to blood track, you might as well start with a breed that has proven it self.
Al
I'm not a proffesional by any stretch of the imanination but one thing I have learned is get the book and when you start laying trails for training watch your dogs reactions and learn how he runs a trail. That way when your out on a bonfide trail for yourself or someone else you'll know what the dog is doing and not be persuaded into making the dog go where you or someone else thinks he should be going. You have to believe in the dog, after all if you could smell what he does he wouldn't be needed in the first place. When you put the dog down you have to know that he's on the trail of a wounded animal, if not you both need more training and practice. It's better explained in the book, that's why that guy writes books and I'm just another redneck from Texas.
I've used my Boykin 4 times over the years. She's 10. Never trained her at all, but she hunts anything that moves. I put her on the leash, showed her blood, and then about got a shoulder dislocated.
Some are naturals and she must be. I only do it as a last resort and this year she tracked one after 15 hours and light rain.
She does not trail healthy deer. (shock collar)
oh-bowhunter,
Biggest thing is just start the pup on some blood/liver even beef. Read the Jeanneney's book...but most importantly have fun & form a good bond with the dog. If pup has the tracking instinct, it will pick it up.
Training a tracking dog is kinda like traditional archery or fly fishing. The more you read or get advise, the more overwhelmed you get...just do it! Doc
GET THE BOOK!!!! It's worth every dime, not to mention a good read.
The problem I run into regularly is the dog wanting to go one way and I see the trail going another. Dog already knows where the deer is (smells body) why should he bother following the blood trail. TRUST THE DOG!
Bowmania
Bridger this year - 3 deer and 2 bear. Five years old 11 deer and 4 bear. Yellow lab.
my drathaar tracked 1 of my deer and my dads deer this year. we started him off by using pigs blood or chicken blood and letting him sniff that while he was a puppy. then when we cant find the deer we either let him sniff the arrow or put him on wat blood we could find. even if there is no blood he can just keep going where he smells the deer went and he finds it
Thank you guys for all the info. Sorry Leatherneck, my brother and stepdad are leathernecks. Veitnam and Iraq. No disrespect meant. Thanks to all servicemen for there sacrifices to keep us safe and free.
You will find tracking with a dog is as much fun as hunting. Plus if you ever thought you were a good tracker, you are in for a big surprise.
As strange as it seems, NOT finding a deer/bear is probably more important than recovery. A good dog can follow a non-mortally wounded animal a long way. You will learn a lot on the evasive tactics of that animal and also know that it will survive.
My dog Tilly has taught me a lot plus her pups have already tracked and found three deer before the age of four months...Doc
This is our first dog for blood tracking, so I am not an expert on the subject either. As most guys said, get John's book, it is a great resource. Look at their information on the web (borntotrack.com). If you look at Jolanta's blog she put up a post about our pup (a smooth haired dachshund) around the 1st week of Jan.
The big thing we learned very quickly was to progress the tracks as your dog progresses and don't let him get bored. We started by dragging a piece of deer meat (like the size of a tennis ball) on a string, wetting it occasionally with the diluted blood that comes off of thawing meat, and aging the track only a couple hours. This was great for him at 8-9 weeks, but he quickly got bored with these tracks. We progressed to dripping diluted blood (like 2-3 tablespoons of raw deer blood diluted to a quart with water) and making longer, more difficult tracks. By 12 weeks old he was doing tracks 300-400 yards long, with several 90 degree turns, that had been aged up to 12 h. Since about 15 weeks of age our tracks have gotten much more advanced. There is NO WAY we can use raw deer blood with Oskar without diluting it, because at this stage of his development he'll wind it at 50-100 yards ahead and try to cut the corner to get to it (like Bowmania said about carcass winding). This is OK for finding deer, but for training I want him to stay close to the line at this time, I'm sure he will mature out of this phase.
Oskar found his first deer at 12 weeks old, and found 12 deer this season (all by the time he was 5 months old). 2 of these tracks were 500 and 800 yards long. If your dog has the focus and drive you'll be surprised with his progress. Any dog has the nose (and more) to do it, that part is easy, it takes the focus and ability to concentrate, and a handler that can read what the dog is doing to make it work.
I think the hardest thing for many owners is getting the dog on enough real tracks. We made a dedicated effort to get Oskar on 10 recoveries his first year. I want him to average at least 15 recoveries a year going forward. This takes alot of work and dedication, but I don't know how a dog that tracks 2-3 deer a year can ever reach his full potential.
Ryan
Ryan,
Have had a number of good dogs that could do some special stuff over the years...and I agree with your understanding of dogs. They are FAST learners and can make quantum leaps of ability when they know what the task is, and the reward for success.
My biggest area of confusion comes from selecting a certain breed of dog. I'd like a dog that also makes an excellent take-along companion. I happen to prefer a breed that has some medium build (smaller than a big lab...bigger than the dachshunds) and a disposition that favors friendliness and manageability. Biters and cranks are unwelcome.
From what I've seen so far...it's anything goes when it comes to a "best breed" of tracking/recovery dog. I'd welcome anyone's thoughts on breeds.
Kevin Dill
"I happen to prefer a breed that has some medium build (smaller than a big lab...bigger than the dachshunds) and a disposition that favors friendliness and manageability. Biters and cranks are unwelcome.
From what I've seen so far...it's anything goes when it comes to a "best breed" of tracking/recovery dog. I'd welcome anyone's thoughts on breeds."
Kevin,
I did quite a bit of research while looking for a blood trailing dog. I complicated the issue by wanting a multi-purpose dog, who would also be gentle around my young daughters.
I settled on a Deutsch Drathaar puppy and haven't regretted it. She's 8 months old now...has recovered a couple deer...held point and retrieved too many pheasants, quail and chukars to count...and has now added rabbits to her bag of tricks. She squeal barks on sight and also if she's on a good track. Yesterday...she took a track on her own...worked it about 400 yards and circled the rabbit back to me. Every piece of small game shot by me or anyone with me was delivered to handw without any command to do so. Best result of my decision...my daughters think she's their sister and spend countless hours with her...including riding her down the hill on sleds!
My only negative with her so far has been her aggressiveness (speed) while blood trailing. She would sometimes go so hard, she would overshoot a turn in the trail. This was remedied by using a pinch collar and we now have no problems.
If you go that route...research your selected breeder options...these dogs vary greatly by breeder in their mannerisms around people.
Hope that helps,
Joe
Joe,
Thanks. I had just completed a quick search on the Drahthaar breed before you posted this. Very interesting dogs and they do appeal to me. Assuming you lived where there were no local breeders, how would you determine a suitable lineage and breeder?
Kevin
I've got a 6 month old lab pup and she's coming along really well. All I've done so far is make a decent blood trail with some deer blood I saved from this past season. She has taken to it without much help from me at all. I am gradually making the trails harder and harder.
Seems like I read somewhere that most dogs will pick it up pretty easily, but some more than others naturally.
Speaking of "leathernecks", (I'm a former sailor ;) ) you do know what "marine" stands for don't you?!!
Kevin,
Look for a breeder's history...mine has done over 600 DD's. Ask very pointed questions about the temperament of the parents...frequency and reason for any dogs in their litters biting. If they're vague or can't answer...look elsewhere. When I got mine...it was more like the breeder was screening ME to see if I was worthy of receiving one of his puppies! As for their hunting potential...that is easily viewable...as every DD's parents, grandparents, etc., is tracked. Every dog has to receive certain test scores in hunting scenarios, must meet certain coat and conformity (size, teeth, etc.) and "hardness tests" to be certified to breed within the organization. If you look at VDD-GNA.org, you can learn about the breed and there's a link to breeders with upcoming litters. If you want more info., PM me. These dogs have amazing brains and sense of balance and recognize most of what they're required to do at the time simply by which collar is placed on them and the simple command given at the time.
Joe
Even though I was a Marksmanship Instructor in the Corps, my arrows need some serious help sometimes. LOL. >>>>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>>
My hats off to all who make the serious commitment to serve this great country!
Now.. Back to the topic, I'm just finishing Johns book and it is GOLDEN for a would be blood tracking dog handler. I'm excited to be picking up my teckler in the very near future! I know it will be a fun and educational ride and hope I can live up to the task.
Once you get it started, BELIEVE THE DOG.
Friend had his dachschund take him 3/4 mile down the middle of a county road. No tracks. Couldn't believe the dog was still on trail, but stuck with it.
Eventually the dog passed and obvious trail, then cut in to the woods, took them a ways thru thick brush to the dead deer laying on the creek bank.
Is there a way to get the book other than going through amazon or some other such place? My nephew wants to train a dog to blood trail lost deer.
Well - I think my German Wirehaired Pointers are not only good bird dogs; but good trailers too. I have 15 of them; but 10 are ankle tall.
If your not into GWP - when a Drathaar is imported into the USA; it can be registered as a GWP with the AKC. Like the sire of my dam; and her dams sire; 'ken vospet' ( google it).
I find my dogs trail naturally. :)
Can't wait to get this pup started. When you take your dogs out to recover deer are you doing it for your friends and family or is this a side job to make extra money. Never realized how many times you take your dogs out. I was just going to do it for myself and help out some friends and family.
Some guys do it for extra cash, most just do it for the dog and the adventure.
This year we just tracked for myself, family, and other trusted folks. I wanted good tracks for Oskar his first year and a minimum of non-starters. That is a big part of why he was 12/12 on fatally hit deer with 1 non-fatal confirmed track and 1 non-starter (so 12/14 recoveries on all tracks). Guys that take run of the mill tracking calls from unknown hunters generally run more like 25-35% recoveries.
We are going to do tracking on-call within 50 miles or so of home next year to get Oskar exposed to more tracks. We won't charge, although donations for gas will be appreciated ;)
Ryan
b.glass,
Just go to The Born to Track site and get the book directly from John.
Brian
Why would someone want to register a Vdd registered Drathaar with the AKC? What would be the advantage? Most Drathaar's in the U.S. come from breeders in group North America. Some Drathaars are imported by breeders to assist in their breeding program. The Drathaar has been bred for 150 years to be a versatile hunting dog. Drathaars are tested on their ability to blood track by the Vdd. Some Drathaars with dedicated owners/handlers complete 40 hour blood tracking tests. The blood trail is 1000 meters long and only 8 ounces of blood is used on the track.
Al
I think Deer Search in New York state is a free service with the understanding that the handler gets travel expenses.
In Mass, it isn't legal to use a dog for hunting deer. So I will only go for a walk in the woods with friends who just might have wounded a deer. I've talked to the DNR about this and it isn't a problem since my dogs are leashed...30 foot leash :) Plus NO weapons can be carried...Doc
Thanks Bill!
I've got a FEIST- black mouth cur cross, and he's a born blood trailer.
Set out beef blood off of whole ribeyes..with cut off pieces as a reward at the end of the trail.
I wound them all around- even at the beginning- 30 to 50 yards and now he's doing 300-500 yard trails that I purposefully make difficult with backtrailing and sharp turns...he's not fooled in teh least.
His nose is so good, I can take his play tennis ball that squeaks and go all over the house hiding it.
In ten minutes, he's right there where I hid it- in a topmost drawer of a dresser, back of the kitchen pantry- wagging his head saying " its here, get it for me Dad"
Its a game we play but he has all the advantages!!!! What a nose!
When you start, use a very long canepole to drag the scent rag or your dog may simply end up trailing you.
Have a buddy make a trail while you go along parallel but off a ways. Good way to find out if the pup is really on trail.
This is my fifth deer season with a tracking dog. It has added a whole new element to my hunting experience - I would rather have Fred trail a deer than shoot one myself.
Initially I thought about taking calls but soon found out that it takes a lot more time than I had anticipated. Someone you don't know calls you and generally says they shot a big one and have tracked it for hours and want to know if we can drive 50 miles and find it. In most cases I would have to take off work or eat in to my own hunting limited hunting time so I don't take outside calls. He gets plenty of work just from my network of friends.
There's been a few times that I would have loved to have a trail dog. But for the most part, I LIKE tracking. I wouldn't want to get where I depended on it to find my stuff all the time.
deer tracking is typically not as problematical as hogs. I'm with you Big, I like tracking deer, as I usually don't have the blood trail difficulties I sometimes encounter with guest-shot piggies.
We'll see how well Shiloh does during the next 3 months or so.
QuoteOriginally posted by LKH:
When you start, use a very long canepole to drag the scent rag or your dog may simply end up trailing you.
The way our breeder told us to address this was to make the track while wearing rubber boots then let it age at least 6, and preferably 12 hours. This lets the relatively light scent trail you leave dissipate while the blood remains.
An old basset hound guy from out east told my wife to put a hunk of meat on the end of a fishing line, cast it out, then drag back in to lay a trail without walking it...never did that, but would probably work.
Very quickly in the pup's development you will want to lay tracks where other animals will cross them during the aging process - we use our pasture so the horses and cattle cross, and will cross the tracks ourselves at right angles to lay "seductive tracks" as the experts call them.
R
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
There's been a few times that I would have loved to have a trail dog. But for the most part, I LIKE tracking. I wouldn't want to get where I depended on it to find my stuff all the time.
Try my world - red/green color blindness. I have to crawl on my hands and knees (even for SNUFFER trails, sometimes! :) ). Blood only looks wet to me, not red, unless I pick it up on my fingers or a bit of TP or something. I've been depending on women (first Mom, then my wife) to blood track my animals for a long time - amazes me how women can see color. The great thing about the pup is he can make a 2-3 hour crawling session into a 15 minute track.
R
The local "Song Dogs" are the best trackers going! If I didn't pick up a deer the night it was hit, then I'd be lucky to find 1/2 a deer the next day. That's what convinced me to start using a tracking dog. Plus my Dachshunds just crack me up as family pets...Doc
It has probably been mentioned earlier, but I think the most positive thing about these animals is their ability to quickly confirm a non-lethal hit. We've all seen that "too good to be true" bloodtrail that "mysteriously" dwindles to a drop every 20 yards. Then we spend several days continuing the search and never being quite sure if we've missed something. For the most part...a good tracking dog will remove any questions.
Joe
Al
Drathaars are German Wirehairs that have been refined and tested and checked and re-checked; and all tuned up real nice. But genetically - they are German Wirehaired pointers.
If you cared to breed a Drathaar into your GWP breeding program- you can enter it into AKC...if it is DNA tested or not born in the USA- in the Drathaar club. However: if a Drathaar is registered with NAVDA - you have a chance to register it with the AKC.
To show a Drathaar - in the ring; or in the field; in an AKC event. You could have an international champion like Ken Vospet ( a Drathaar) win a FC ( field championship) with the AKC...but only if it is a registered GWP - same for a bench Championship.
My GWPs track birds - as chuckars and huns will run a long way after flying and landing. My dogs follow bears; and I have sold pups in the past to people that use them for Bears lions and bobcats; as they might 'yip' when they are on a cat- but they do not bray. Around here; braying brings in wolves.
Word of caution; when in wolf country trailing; if your dog of whatever breed is noisy- be prepared to defend your dog and yourself.
njstykbow : a friend in Michigan tried to get a particular huge buck known to the whole neighborhood; with his compound. After failing many times and a couple years- to get a shot; he shot it in gun season. He hit it in the rib cage with a 12 gauge slug. It ran off and the pursuit started. First; he followed the deer; then his neighbors did; for three days- with blood; but no dead deer. He hit it November 15th; and in March his neighbor called him to say the buck was on his property.
He showed up to see it; and was taken inside and told to look through a telescope. There in a back field was the buck feeding; with a big scar on its side.
Man - to have a dog that can tell a deer is non-lethally hit would have sold to this guy for a whole lot of money ( many many sleepless nights).
I've got two snausages (mini doxies)and when I shoot a deer I save the blood. Then get a treat make a blood trale down wind and have them follow it. They follow the blood they get the treat!
Dang Ryan, I figured everything you shot went down within sight anyway....
Thanks so much for the info. Can't wait to get her started. Got some backstaps defrosting in the fridge gonna use the blood from that to get her started. Will post some pics when my daughters free to help me. Another friend drives a tow truck and gonna save me hit deer so I can get some hides. Again thank you all.
Brian,
Sounds like those guys don't need a dog...or probably wouldn't have believed it anyway!
My DD just had it's second day on cottontails and now yips on sight and scent. I'm hoping to get her on a cat in ID next winter!
Joe
Ryan, I have the same problem. My ex wife used to do all the blood trailing- it was really frustrating for her to point out blood right under my feet. I had to learn to track by reading the other sign- fresh turned leaves, fast-moving tracks, etc., and by learning how deer move through the terrain when hit. It took me 8 hours to find one poorly-hit buck. I'm sure I've lost a couple for lack of color vision and lack of a tracking dog. I don't shoot enough deer these days to keep a dog, and unfortunately don't have a friend with one.
On the other hand, the lack of color vision forced me to become better at woodsmanship. I practice by following fresh deer sign every chance I get.