deer dont have camo. do i really need it?
sorry if this is such a blatant newbie question but just wondering if anyone knows of good rain gear that is NOT camo but good for bow hunting. silent etc.
preferebaly something not too heavy and VENTILATED?
THANKS
I don't know about rain gear, but good on you for raising the challenge for yourself. I am trying to go in this direction, too.
Deer don't wear clothes, either, but that is a path that I do not care to go down at my advanced age, though it is probably safer now.
Killdeer
I killed a doe earlier this season while I was stillhunting and wearing a dark blue poncho. A poncho will hide your shape (which is what camo is all about anyway, isn't it) and won't cost you a fortune.
Killdeer - thanks for the laugh!
My theory for prefering cold weather to hot - "You can always put more clothes on, but you only dare take so many off!"
raindog-
As to camo raingear that fits your bill- don't know that one, but I don't know ANY raingear, camo or not, that is quiet, ventilated, not too heavy, and actually keeps the rain off.
And no, you don't need camo. Camo patterns are made to catch hunters (and their dollars), the deer don't care.
R
It is more important to move slowly and keep the wind in your face than wear camo. Lots of guys and gals just wear plaids or earth tones to blend in a bit and kill plenty. On the other hand a great pattern like ASAT or Predator - or a ghillie suit can make you virtually invisible to animals. It is really a personal choice.
There is lots of No camo clothing. black, brown, green
I wear a lot of black fleece and if you've ever seen a bear or moose walking through the woods you know its a mighty good hue (black is not a color) to have on.
'Course, I was thinking of buying scent bloc, scent sheild, scent spray, carbon arrows, fast flight string, a range finder, gps, a 200 dollar pack for every occasion (daypack. two day pack, fannie mae pack and a pack out meat pack) and lets not forget the binocs and gore-tex.
But I will NOT buy reading glasses. A mans got to draw the line somewhere...
Joshua, blind as a bat reading a menu.
plaid is the best camo ever..
I hunt during the rifle season because it's the only time I can. I wore hunter's orange, levi's, and a hoodie, and got within 10 yards of a 2 point. Of course a doe walked infront of it so I couldn't get a shot but it worked nonetheless.
I don't know, deer seem pretty darned camouflaged to me? No, you don't need camo patterned clothing, but the type of material you choose to wear can have a profound effect. Quiet, soft, breathable, non reflective, light absorbing, durable, warm, wind stopping, muted natural colors, comfortable and generously cut through the shoulders are a few attributes I would seek in good bow hunting clothing. Wool is definite standout!
thanks for all the good input!
lots of good advice on patterns. people mentioned plaid and solid earth tones. im hip to that unfortunately none of that is ever made in WATERPROOF. thats what im ultimately asking.
where is the ventilated waterproof NON camo?????
I killed a doe wearing a dark blue poncho.
I'll bet she was quite fetching in her dark blue poncho.
Sorry couldn't resist.
I don't know if you are planning on hunting in a down pour, but good wool is hard to beat, and will keep you warm when it is wet.
Ron LaClair has some, and so does G. Fred.
Quotebut I don't know ANY raingear, camo or not, that is quiet, ventilated, not too heavy, and actually keeps the rain off
and why IS that???? it seems like they make stuff that is quiet but not ventilated. they make stuff that is ventilated but not quiet. they also make stuff that is light and durable. they also make non camo jackets.....in fact it seems like you can find any combination of those factors so why not something that is all of them????
we can put a man on the moon......
oh and that also actually fits.
that rivers west lakota jacket comes very close to all these things....but its fits weird. too high int he front.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pepper:
I don't know if you are planning on hunting in a down pour, but good wool is hard to beat, and will keep you warm when it is wet.
Ron LaClair has some, and so does G. Fred.
i love wool. but i also live in the northwest where it has the tendency to rain a LOT. so, it would be nice to have something that wont get soggy and dripping.
QuoteOriginally posted by GingivitisKahn:
[QB] I killed a doe earlier this season while I was stillhunting and wearing a dark blue poncho
nice work! what kind of poncho? isnt a poncho going to be loud? obviously you made it work but i might not be that talented :)
I do a great deal of my hunting (mostly spot and stalk) wearing drab grey, brown, or green clothing. This year I shot my best muley ever wearing a pair of bluejeans. 5 different times one or another of the bucks stood and looked at me. It's getting caught moving that will bust you.
On snow, blaze orange is great camo.
When I shot the cover photo for the Feb/Mar issue of Traditional Bowhunter Magazine ("Old Kentucky Hunter's Cabin") I was not only thinking about "the good old days" but hoping to inspire a few hunters to reexamine what they think is essential. Wool plaids are still IN:^)
never worn camo...but the plaids i wear really are camo without the pricetag and advertising. move slowly and watch the wind is my " camo" .
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp200/benmaher3006/PICT0108.jpg)
You don't need it.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y275/420W/IM000298.jpg)
No, you don't need camoflauge patterened clothing. You do need to adhere to camoflauge techniques....and frankly, you can do that wearing a pink tuxedo.
No you don't need camo,but I like it.What you really need is the quality in the material their scent properties,some fabrics stink more than others,the warming and waterproofing qualities.Anything of good wool is hard to beat.
If I went au naturale there would be more sasquatch sightings...................
WHen I was a Navy corpsman with the Marines in the '70s we wet to a 2 day survival school in the Philipines. Our Instructor literally disapeared 15 yards in front of us in the woods wearing a red t shirt and blue gym shorts. He said camo was all about being still, getting low, and confidence. We felt preety silly standing there in our head to toe camo. I am not knocking guys who wear camo, I just dont worry about the pattern on whatever I happen to be wearing.
Gary, That was one of the best cover's I've ever seen on TBM. Excellant Job!! Jason
OH, plaid wool is all the camo one needs, as for quiet and ventilated raingear, I don't think they make such a thing! HA! Jason
This has been discussed many times before,but ALWAYS worth discussing again!!!
I brought some others to the top for everyone to check out.....
Killdeer, you kill me with your comments... ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by oneraindog:
where is the ventilated waterproof NON camo?????
Poncho, man. Poncho.
QuoteOriginally posted by Pepper:
I killed a doe wearing a dark blue poncho.
I'll bet she was quite fetching in her dark blue poncho.
Sorry couldn't resist.
Like the old Groucho bit (from Animal Crackers)...
"I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know."
:bigsmyl:
QuoteOriginally posted by oneraindog:
QuoteOriginally posted by GingivitisKahn:
[QB] I killed a doe earlier this season while I was stillhunting and wearing a dark blue poncho
nice work! what kind of poncho? isnt a poncho going to be loud? obviously you made it work but i might not be that talented :) [/b]
Not sure of the brand but it's a lightweight backpacking poncho. As to noise - yes, you can hear the rain pattering on the poncho, but you can hear it pattering on the trees, leaves, rocks, deer, etc. so I'm not to worried about that.
The bigger trick is to be able to flip the front over your shoulder (as in a Clint Eastwood cowboy flick) without bugging the deer. It helps (though it isn't strictly required) to squint your eyes menacingly while shifting your ragged little cigar to the other corner of your mouth while performing this maneuver.
QuoteOriginally posted by oneraindog:
i love wool. but i also live in the northwest where it has the tendency to rain a LOT. so, it would be nice to have something that wont get soggy and dripping.
Good point. But wool will keep one warm even when soggy and dripping, which is a real advantage in our Western Washington climate.
Like others here, I wear wool. But what I do in the conditions you describe is to carry one of those cheap ponchos in my pack. During downpours I put it on and seek shelter under a tree or whatever until the rain subsides or stops completely.
If real wet weather, I use a thin rain top under a wool sweater or cotton shirt depending upon how warm it is. My hat keeps rain off my neck.
thanks everyone for all the great input. lots of food for thought
I can see deer all the time, even from long distances in open areas and when standing still. Their "camouflage" doesn't work very well a lot of the time. I don't often see hunters in those situations when they are wearing good camo patterns. I understand that movement is the key element in being spotted by animals and other humans, but in my experience animals do not see us as well when we are properly camouflaged even when we move some. They seem to see us more when we don't blend into our environment even if we don't move. I won't argue that camo is needed all the time, especially with animals who are not often exposed to humans, but I think it is almost essential in some hunting conditions, especially around animals that get a lot of hunting pressure and learn what a human shape looks like where the hunter is sitting in the open. On the other hand, much of the camo on the market blobs up when looking at it from more than a few yards away and gives no significant advantage over solid colored clothing and may be worse than solid colors that are the same darkness as the surroundings. Good camo works well, which is why people have been using it in one form or another for millenia and is why some animals have developed camo patterns of their own, like the zebra, leopard, chameleon, insects, fish, etc.
Allan
Killie,
Come now, one of the few perks for us of advanced years is that you can go "sans accoutrements" and the authorities tend to consider you harmless and the locals just refer to you as eccentric (provided you are of sufficient means to make bail). Nobody wants to hassle a naked person in a deer stand!
Good post Allen! :thumbsup:
Gary; i really like the plaid jacket and hat on the cover of TBM, where can one purchase them???
Thank You
Stone Knife....you are wearing plaids...thats a form of camouflage. Any SOLID Color is not camouflaged. Your plaids blend well with your surroundings but your are "broken up".
Thanks Jason, I have more magazine covers slated for this year - one has some plaid thrown in for good measure:^) Sergio, to answer your question, that jacket and hat was made by Rob Tiberio of Classic Bowman Sporting Woolens of NJ. PM me and I'll see if I can put you in contact with him.
I guess I'm a little prejudice here, but there's something about that cover which over powers the other hunting mags this month at my local Barnes and Noble:^)
(http://brothersofthebow.com/FMTBM2.jpg)
Used with permission TBM,Inc.
I would agree Wool is top of the line in most colder wet weather conditions. And you can find it in many different patterns
Check out the web site of "Stony creek NZ" for hunting clothing that is designed by and for hunters in NZ conditions.
The prices are in NZ$,which means the exchange rates makes it quite cheap in the USA.
I wear their Sambar jacket that is about 95% water proof,100% wind proof,and breathes so you won't over heat when you climb that mountain.
I think most of their gear comes in both camo or plain browns and greens.
QuoteOriginally posted by joe skipp:
Stone Knife....you are wearing plaids...thats a form of camouflage. Any SOLID Color is not camouflaged. Your plaids blend well with your surroundings but your are "broken up".
Exactly Joe! :notworthy:
QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:
QuoteOriginally posted by joe skipp:
Stone Knife....you are wearing plaids...thats a form of camouflage. Any SOLID Color is not camouflaged. Your plaids blend well with your surroundings but your are "broken up".
Exactly Joe! :notworthy: [/b]
I'm nearly certain that when people talk about camo (or in this case, 'no camo') they are referring to commercially produced patterns recognized as such: woodland, mossy oak, ASAT, etc.
Plaids, solids, and some wild patterns can be 'camo' in the right setup, but the topic here is about camo patterns produced to be such.
This would probably blend in just fine for spring turkey hunting but I doubt you'll find it at the local Army surplus store:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff187/GingivitisKahn/benny-hill-240x300.jpg)
"You don't need it."
Jaaaaaames?
What's that stuff on your face?
Killdeer :saywhat:
And what is the problem with camo?
QuoteOriginally posted by Jesse Minish:
And what is the problem with camo?
:thumbsup:
Jesse, there's nothing at all wrong with camo if that is what you prefer. However, there are many others (including me)who believe that plaid patterns in earthtone colors are just as effective as many of today's camo patterns. The bonus is that plaid garments are generally less expensive than the camo products and can often be found at second hand stores.
But if you prefer camo, and especially if it makes you a more confident hunter, then by all means stick with it. Although I am a believer in plaids, I can tell you that I own some camo as well.
African professional hunters often see multiple animal kills every day and are involved in many more sightings and stalks of animals. They are in the field most of the year and are often hunting huge concessions where the game animals do not have much contact with humans. For rifle hunters in Africa camouflage is not much of an issue due to the distances from which game can be shot. The clients shooting rifles are told by the PHs to wear medium to darker greens and browns and they will do fine. That advice changes completely when the clients will be hunting with bows and arrows. The bowhunter clients are told to bring good full coverage camo because they will need it to get within shooting range of the game unless they are shooting from enclosed blinds. Those PHs know a thing or two about hunting, and they definitely do not encourage the use of camo where it is not needed. Plaids help a lot in breaking up your outline and I have good experiences wearing it. Among commercial camo, ASAT and Predator are two of the best overall patterns, with Mothwing, Optifade, Skyline, Cabela's Outfitter, Max 1, and some others being excellent patterns too, especially in the right surroundings.
There are way too many game animals killed by hunters (including bowhunters) who are not wearing camo to think that using particular clothing is the single answer to successful hunting. If you don't understand animals and their habits; if you can't find where the animals are located and traveling; if you don't stay downwind and engage in scent control; if your movements are not made infrequently, slowly and carefully; if you make a lot of noise or make noises that are not routinely heard in nature; and if you make other mistakes that alert the animals to your presence, then no camouflage is going to help. Good hunters can make kills without camo, and hunters who aren't good won't kill game when using the best camo. Camo is not the most important aspect of successful hunting, but it is a very useful tool that will increase our successes. The most successful hunters I know use camo, but so do the least successful. This is the same kind of discussion that takes place among flyfishermen when talking about "matching the hatch". Just putting the most natural looking fly in front of the fish won't ensure a catch, but it will increase your chances.
One other point. There are many ways that animals adapt to survive. Some do use camouflage as their primary means of protection. Deer don't. Deer are very high strung with good eyesight, great hearing and a fantastic sense of smell. They are very quick to react, can run like the wind and can leap over obstacles with ease. Except when they are born and have spots, deer do not use camouflage as one of their primary defenses to predation, and that is why we as hunters can see them fairly easily. It is not a very good idea to use deer as an example of a species that is camouflaged, because they aren't. We don't have all those other gifts that deer have, so we ought to use camo to help defeat the natural defenses of the animals we hunt, like deer.
Allan
QuoteOriginally posted by Jesse Minish:
And what is the problem with camo?
Absolutely nothing.I'm actually about to by some new camo for turkey season. Turkey's aside, however, I chuckle (and maybe rebel against) all of the marketing that goes into camo. I also have a couple compund shooting friends who are real nutty about the patterns, etc.....they will turn around and go back to the house if their gloves don't match thier coat. That makes me laugh.
Absolutely NOTHING against somebody who wants to wear camo though.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jesse Minish:
And what is the problem with camo?
there isnt anything wrong with it im just not a huge fan. just as you may really really like camo i really really dont.
i understand that camo can provide a distinct advantage and amar911 makes some EXELLENT points all valid and true. originally i was asking a semi-uneducated question. but i think it has some merit. befor the develpment of modern camo and silent suede and all of that, people still caught game. the example of african hunters is a good one because long before the arrival of modern technology and elaborately designed camo patterns african hunters were catching game. as where all other "primitive" cultures.
my intent truly was not to start a flame war of camo vs. no camo. wear what works for you by all means i wont think less of you or criticize in any way. hell ill be right next to you wearing it as well. i just wont be liking it.
im just curious about why the american made options these days for waterproof hunting gear is camo or nothing.
I never wore camo while hunting during the first 30 years of my life. There are still circumstances where I don't. But over the last quarter century I have become convinced that camo is very helpful in keeping animals from seeing me. It certainly doesn't bother me if someone else chooses not to wear it. The people shooting trad bows who on a regular basis can successfully hunt and kill game without camo are probably much better hunters than I am, and I am proud of them for their skills. I just need more help when I am hunting with a bow, and particularly with a trad bow. I also wish more clothing would be offered in solid colors like olive and medium brown as opposed to just camo. I guess it's primarily a matter of what sells.
Allan
I also am a fan of wool in plaids and if it gets raining so hard that it is dripping from my wool jacket I also know that following a blood trail is going to be next to impossible, so at this point I go in and get dry. Go back out when it lets up. Good luck in any case.
Don't know if anyone has mentioned the Rain gear that Bass Pro sells. It's called Frogg Toggs and they are lightweight and available in different colors including camo. Not too pricey either. They are windproof also. I use them while riding motorcyle in the rain and they work great!!!
Frogg Toggs are fine except noisy as all get-out! Maybe if I can live with that long enough to get them broken in better that won't be the case, but I have had them a while and they are still really crinkly. I suppose if you wear them as an under layer that would not be such a problem.
"I don't use camo" Just earth tone plaids and burnt cork on my face.
LOL
Find a USGI Gore Tex rain suit. It WILL keep you dry but sorry, it's camo.
Or get a USGI poncho. Use in conjunction with a chest protector and an arm guard. It WILL keep you dry but again sorry, it's camo.
camo gives you concealment in the trees etc,it breaks up your shape so the animal does not see you.imagine a deer with a predator coat on it.you'd never see it.you're not trying to hide the deer from you but you from it.wear what you will but imho camo is the right choice.
let me add also that i hunt totally differnt from lets say a guy whos out spot and stalking a bedded deer.i call the elk to me trying to get it to pass by me,if i had no camo on i can imagine getting picked off every time.i get picked off even wearing camo once in a while.they see the movement and boom...gone...to me camo is the only way to go.wear a tin suit thats your choice but camo was designed for concealment from game.
I'm brand new to bow hunting. Did some gun hunting when I was a kid out west, always at 100 yd+ distances.
Last week I had a buck walk to about 22 feet from me. I was pretty much out in the open, with just enough bare twigs between him & me to keep me from getting a good shot off. What stopped him was hearing my (too excited) breathing. I'd hold my breath and he'd go back to grazing, i'd breathe & he'd look right through me. This happened 3 times before he got uncomfortable enough with the mysterious breathing to turn around and walk back the way he came. Did I mention he was looking right through me?
I'm gonna keep wearing camo...
as some as my camo wears out i wont be buying anymore. but im not going to stop using what i have till its gone.