Sorry for the repost i posted this in another forum but think it might get attention here. What kind of speed do hunting recurves get? and others for that matter. Im not interested in the speed of the bows they shoot at the olympics if thats any different. Obviously there are factors that affect speed but what do you thing a 40# bow will get for speed? Does the bow matter as much as it does in modern archery? (One brand new bow will have 340 ibo and another 300 ibo)Just curious i want to get an idea of the speeds that the bows produce to become more familiar with the basics of traditional archery
Around 180fps seems to be a pretty standard figure using hunting arrows. Some are lower, some are higher. It depends greatly on arrow weight. Any tradbow can shoot over 200fps with light arrows, but it might blow-up, and won't penetrate very well. Many people hunt very successfully with 160 to 180fps, and heavier arrows. I have never seen a chronograph, and am just telling you roughly what I've read on here.
Thanks that gives a little perspective. What makes a traditional recurve designed for speed? Hate to keep bringing up that modern stuff on here but with a compound different cams and brace hieght are an example of what affects arrow speeds.
You can find some scientific measurements at bowreports.com .
Ben has it right. There are a lot of variables that affect arrow speed. Draw weight, draw length, arrow weight, string type, etc.
Are you planning on using this 40# recurve to learn with?
QuoteOriginally posted by bdgerfn20:
Thanks that gives a little perspective. What makes a traditional recurve designed for speed? Hate to keep bringing up that modern stuff on here but with a compound different cams and brace hieght are an example of what affects arrow speeds.
Things like materials, limb design and overall geometry come into play when designing recurves for speed. However -- and this is a
big however -- just because a bow is fast doesn't mean it's forgiving. I've shot a number of traditional bows that touted high speed but, quite frankly, were about as stable as a ferral cat hopped up on Mountain Dew.
That's not to say you can't have speed
and stability in a recurve design, but there are some bows on the market that are more useful for shooting through a chornograph than at a target.
Well, pretty much the same things that affect arrow speed in compounds, affects them in traditional archery, minus the cams, of course.
The most important thing in traditional archery is to find a bow/arrow/point combination that works for your purpose, learn the correct shooting form, and shoot enough until you can consistently hit where you want to.
Chasing speed can be a fun, and expensive, pastime, but it's all for naught if you aren't consistent.
All recurves are gonna give you all the speed and energy you need to get the job done with hunting weight arrow out of a hunting weight bow with proper shot placement,a sharp broadhead and well tuned bow and arrow.
Thier might be a 15 to 20 Ft per second differnece between the so called slower ones and the faster ones that milk every bit of energy thats put into them.
I think most the higher performance ones are gonna be within 5-7 ft per second of each other on a chrono
With a hunting weight arrow of 9 to 12 grains or more I think you could expect somwhere between 165 to 190- 195 ft per second on a bow drawn 28 inches.High ends gonna be around 190 with 9 grains per pound shot with fingers.
Thier are some really high performance hybrid style longbows that shoot as fast or faster than recurves if you want to look into them as well.
I would concur that you want a bow that feels good in your hand and fits you well and just shoots well for you over speed.Thier are plenty of quiet, stable, and fast shooting bows out thier though.You need to find a shoot to try a few different ones out.
Thier is a big traditional gathering here in MI in late January if you can get away from WI for a day or 2 you could check out tons of different bows and meet with bowyers and really got some impressions of whats out thier.You can test shoot bows till your arms fall off.Thier are also shoots in WI in the summer and other surrounding states that you should check out that have alot of venders.Theirs a huge one in S.W. MI. in Barrien Springs in mid to late June you could get to that would be fairly close to WI.Its called Comptoms.Its a good one to attend believe me.
I have chornographed alot of trad bows and most of the bows I have seen shot over my cronograph go from 170 to 188 fps. That was with them shooting there bows and with there setups. My own bows have shot 176, 183, 183 and 188 fps. That was the speeds of the four bows I have owned with the way I set them up for me. I taylor the arrow weight to get the speed and trajectory I am looking for but you have to have your bow tuned with whatever arrow setup you are shooting if you want a good shooting well penatrating setup. Widow ps.Forgive any misspelling
Hi!
Interesting tread :)
One thing that would be interesting is to first agree about what a good hunting arrow/weight is and then tested that out with your own hunting trad.
What is a good hunting weight? 500 grains?, 650 grains? If for example the weight for testing a 40-45@draw length is 500 gn. And a good weight is 650 for a 55-60@draw length.
So If the ones with a chrono did test these things out with all the different bows we tradgangers own, I think we would get a good idea of low and high.
By the way: I have tested and own different bows and it seems for my way of shooting that the fastest bows sometimes is "nervous" in the way of small mistakes in the release/form when shooting gives much bigger consequences for the accuracy than an average fps performer! But of course that is my experience :archer:
Margly
Speed is not everything hunting;then it depends of the style and animal you want to hunt .As sayed before you can go from 160 fps to 200fps.You have to adapt your set up to your hunting quest.
200 is the holy grail in trad.Much as 300 is to wheels.Over 200 is considered smoking fast.
My old bear was shooting about 176,which is repectable for a vintage bow shooting hunting weight aluminums.
I usually only get around 160 with my bows some a little higher.
Mike Lee
Most any of the ones considered higher performance bows will shoot around 190 with a 28" draw using arrows weight 9gns per lb of bow weight.The fastest one will be 3 or 4fps over that and the slower ones a tad under.They are so close you will be better off picking a bow by the way it feels or sounds for you rather than worring about a very few fps that you will never notice after you start shooting.Your release ect will make a bigger difference in the speed you see than the bow brand if you stick to the better performers. jmo
hunting stickbow speed is secondary to high hunting arrow arrow mass weight.
arrow mass weight is secondary to broadhead design and sharpness.
the rest is subjective conjecture and personal aesthetics.
Not much to add. Depending on bow design, draw weight/length & arrow weight, you can expect around 180FPS to tickling 200.
All my recurves which are 51-55# at my 28.5 draw weight, shooting arrows weighing 500-530 grains, chronograph 180 to 188. Ironically, the fastest is also the quietest, but is #3 in the line up because it just doesn't fit my pistol quite as well as #1 & #2, and consequently I don't shoot it quite as well. The two I shoot best do low to mid 180s, which is plenty fast to pass through a deer at 20 yards or more.
Considering 4 or 5 lbs draw weight difference shooting the same arrow, only a 8FPS increase seemed somehow unfair. It was however, enlightening. I learned that with recurves the point of diminishing return is far more pronounced that with compounds, and that with a recurve shootability more important than speed.
Knowledge is power and learning something new is always good...
Just for the hell of it, I once shaded 190FPS pretty fair over the chrono with my fastest recurve and an unrealistically light arrow. Then I recalled the trip to the ER after I had an arrow blow up on release back in the 80s, and having to replace the destroyed bow to add insult to painful injury. My curiosity suddenly was sated...
Sometimes knowledge is painful, and learning something new not always good...
The fastest recurve I've seen was the guy who made the Dead On Trad DVD. He was shooting, if I recall correctly, an 80# Martin Hatfield with tiny little target carbons over a chronograph at 230FPS. To be fair, he was shooting a setup designed to win 3D tournys, at which he's highly successful. Still, all that energy has to go somewhere and whatever isn't absorbed by arrow weight on release is transferred back into the limbs. I wondered how many sets of limbs he goes through shooting those straws...
Never personally seen them in action, but I hear the ACS and Dhalla can launch an arrow pretty fair. For the price I would expect them to track the deer, too (insert rimshot here) :D ...
BTW, In my own defense I own the chrono for developing rifle loads, something I do a lot of. Shooting my recurves over it was purely a curiosity thing...
In the past I've owned a chronograph that was used primarily for evaluating rifle loads. Naturally, my curiousity got the best of me and I started checking all my bows along with everyone else's that I happened to be shooting with. Very seldom when using an identical draw weight or very similar,(+-2pounds), using the same arrow, same shooter, did I find more than a 6-10 FPS variation. It was usually closer that that. That includes comparing a '60s Bear w/ a B50 string to the latest Super Swizzle Stick FF custom.
I sold the chrono years ago and decided that if the bow shot well and looked pretty fast, that was good 'nough. :campfire:
quote:
Originally posted by myshootinstinks:
...
I sold the chrono years ago and decided that if the bow shot well and looked pretty fast, that was good 'nough. :thumbsup:
We use a chron to evaluate designs. But speed isn't the only factor. The efficency of the bow is much more important. That's what makes them smooth and quiet.
Need all three to have a good package.
I think chronos in the hands of the general public cause a lot more unhappy people then anything else. I watched a guy shoot a selfbow he was very pleased and proud of all day.
He stopped at a chrono at the end of the course and shot his arrow. 150 fps. He was disappointed and no longer happy with the bow he built.
Mike
QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:
We use a chron to evaluate designs. But speed isn't the only factor. The efficency of the bow is much more important. That's what makes them smooth and quiet.
Need all three to have a good package.
I think chronos in the hands of the general public cause a lot more unhappy people then anything else. I watched a guy shoot a selfbow he was very pleased and proud of all day.
He stopped at a chrono at the end of the course and shot his arrow. 150 fps. He was disappointed and no longer happy with the bow he built.
Mike
absolutely +1 :thumbsup:
The traditional bow that will shoot 200 FPS with 10 grains of arrow per pound is (I think still) the holy grail. As stated above, the best are 185-190-ish with reasonable hunting arrows.
Jason, my man, nicely played! "as stable as a ferral cat hopped up on Mountain Dew." I need to remember that...you're coming along nicely with the pithy sayings (considering you are from the Big City!)
R
I had an old Bear Kodiack Hunter that with a 30" 2216 and 125 gr tip, 55# @ 28" would shoot 175 fps. I shot it 3 time thru the crony and it was the same each time. I draw 29". From what I have read thats a pretty good hunting set up.....Should have kept that one...lol!
When it comes to selfbows it is best not to know sometimes. ;)
I use a crony a lot.Bought one when I built the first bow.A valuable tool but not one that is needed in picking a good bow.All you need to shoot one to decide if it will do the job you intend doing with it.The more you do this stuff the less numbers like bow weight,artrow weight and FPS will mean to you.It is a great passtime talking about them on the internet but when it comes to hunting we just reach for that bow that feels good and we can shoot best.It has little to do with much of anything else. :biglaugh:
I have owned several recurves and one longbow that topped the 200 mark shooting bear 308s with 125 grain points. I had a longer draw with the recurves than I should have been using. I looked like I was trying to fall over backwards just to reach 29 inches. With a shorter draw and slower arrow speeds to go with it my hunting success went way up. My wife gets around 150 to 155 fps with her shorter draw and just under 40 pounds of pull. Her arrows are around 435 grains, but she still gets the arrow completely through whitetail deer that weigh 150 pounds dressed, so it obviously is enough.
I agree with the idea that its better off not to know. Chronographs have sold a lot of Bows to guys that were perfectly happy with thier old bow until they found out it only shot 170 fps. Near perfect arrow flight and above all, scary sharp broadheads are more important than hitting 200 fps. I tend to pick my bows ( and guns) by what feels right in my hand. If you are comfortable you will be more confident and relaxed when you pick your spot
Not much has been said about fletching but it will affect speed as much as arrow weight and string material, maybe more. You can set a bow and arrows up for speed only with light arrow and small straight offset fletching but they won't stabilize a broadhead or penetrate. Most of us shoot 5"-5.5" x 1/2" helical 3 fletch or 4" x 1/2" helical 4 fletch for stability.
I've been involved with tradional archery since I was a boy in 1955 and have never tested a single bow for speed and never will.
I'm a bit confused...a lot of you are talking about reaching the 200fps with arrows that are 10grains per pound...now I shoot a 60lb and a 68lb bow both with 550grain arrows...is this going to hurt my bow...? Should I beef my arrows up a tad? Just out of curiousity I payed two dollars to have my bow chronographed and it was around 210 with those arrows...I'm not concerned about speed I just want to know if I should be shooting a heavier arrow?
You had a lot of no nosense replays,now give yourself the answer.
QuoteOriginally posted by HOWITZER:
I'm a bit confused...a lot of you are talking about reaching the 200fps with arrows that are 10grains per pound...now I shoot a 60lb and a 68lb bow both with 550grain arrows...is this going to hurt my bow...? Should I beef my arrows up a tad? Just out of curiousity I payed two dollars to have my bow chronographed and it was around 210 with those arrows...I'm not concerned about speed I just want to know if I should be shooting a heavier arrow?
As a generally accepted rule, 10GPP is the minimal weight for a safe, reasonably quiet, and stable trad arrow. At that, there are a lot of guys who consider 10GPP far too light.
That being said, I shoot 2213's that are just 500 grains with my 55# stuff and have no problem.
To the contrary, they shoot great...
gpp is just a guideline of sorts.
some bowyers will tell ya the lowest gpp to go with their bows, and in some cases to validate the warranty.
lower gpp for faster arras, and higher for slower arras with more punch/penetration. it all depends on what yer hunting and where, and what works best for you and not anyone else.
Excellent thread, and lots of good info,
my recurve goes thru the chrono at 161 fps its a 55# @ 28 and I shoot 525 gn arrows, very accurate and forgiving.
I figure it only needs to work for 17-20 yards when hunting.
Mike
Speed tests are very elightening for the bowyer. Comparing bows with the same grain per pound arrow, and same 28" release can tell you a lot. Most bows are not compared using the same criteria. My fastest longbow shoots 183.5 fps drawing 28", shooting 10 gpp, normal weight string, and finger release. That same bow requires that I drop to 9gpp and draw her to 29" to hit 201 fps. Draw length will get you the biggest gains!
I have a 41@28 Kodiak hunter I draw to 30" shooting full length 2016 with a 145 grain Razorhead, anyone know what that would chrono at?
QuoteOriginally posted by elbow:
I have a 41@28 Kodiak hunter I draw to 30" shooting full length 2016 with a 145 grain Razorhead, anyone know what that would chrono at?
impossible to know without any amount of accuracy. all your replies will be best guesses.
and what does any of this serve anyone? :confused: :rolleyes:
Good call Rob, just wondering, just got the bow from my kids wondering how the old bows compare to the Widow I shot last year, plus, although I realize the speed isnt what it is all about, it is fun to know more about your bows performance, anything with archery is fun.
QuoteOriginally posted by elbow:
Good call Rob, just wondering, just got the bow from my kids wondering how the old bows compare to the Widow I shot last year, plus, although I realize the speed isnt what it is all about, it is fun to know more about your bows performance, anything with archery is fun.
it's best to think of all bows as 'experiments of one' - they're all different and unique to some degree when it comes to performance, and that includes sticks crafted by the same bowyer, same model, too.
I just got a bear greenstripe T/D 60#/28" I'm using tapered hickory shafts w/ woody weights and 190gr tips- comes in around 1000gr! I have no idea what it chronos at but I'm guessing pretty slow, It shoots where I want it to at 20yds so thats all that matters- that and the fact I can hardly get the arrows out of the target! I have 65lb limbs coming for it, with those limbs and these arrows I think I'll be pretty happy
The only thing I like a chrono for is to test the consistency of my shot and set-up, nothing more.
It is enlightening to see your arrow speed from different positions.
Way to often the chrono is used to just sell product and folks are given numbers that don't mean anything in the real world.
In the old days we would use the AMO standard to measure bow speed and that was as I remember 60# @ 28" with a 500 gr. arrow. That rating was what I considered a good test of a bows preformance for both trad. and wheel bows as it was close to what a normal person would shoot.
Then came along the IBO test and every wheel guy out there thinks their new latest/greatest shoots at 320+ speed, but no one read the fine print.
IBO standard is a 300 gr. arrow with no fletching, bow set a 70# at a 30" draw with nothing on the string.
I have never seen a hunting bow in the woods or a target bow for that matter, that looked like that, shoot by 6' 5" guys with 30" draw.
I would think one would expect to drop at least 20 to 30 fps off of the IBO rated speed when the average Joe/Jolen rigs out their hunting bow with string puffs, 55 to 60# average weight at 27 to 29 inch draw, etc. but the sad thing is alot of folks are dupped into thinking they have something they don't.
I really hate to see the traditional archery community go down the same path as the wheel guys have and a lot of us don't, as we know what really counts when it come to what make a great shooting bow. But we have a lot of new folks coming onboard that came from that speed world that think you have to shoot over 200 fps to have a good trad. bow and there are some bow builders that are taking advantage of that.
It's up to all of us who have been around stickbows for awhile to educate the newcomers to what it means to have a great shooting bow and how to use it so they won't become sucked down that speed hole again.
My 2 Roy Hall recurves clock 197fps w/ 9.5gr per in arrows.
My Dan Toelke feels as fast w/ 10.5gr per inch, but haven't actually clocked it yet.
as has been typed numerous times by lotsa folks ...
speed don't kill - a well placed, well flying arra with a lethal broadhead does the killing. how many arrow fps more or less don't matter one dang bit for the very most part.
yeah, sure, ya can talk gpp and foc 'til the cows come home, and that sure is good stuff to chew on and contemplate and employ. now reread the preceding 2 sentences again. :)
that's the real world truth and that's all she wrote!
Check out Jim Belchers website, his new limbs look like they perform at the top of the charts for traditional something like 202 with fingers and 254 (IBO) with a shooting machine, I was told by a friend of his they shot the bow off the maching for more than 4hrs straight shot after shot.
Worth a look.