Trad Gang

Okie dokie

At the risk of making an @$$ out of myself, I thought I'd start something that might help out some of the new guys and even some of the not so new ones who have a mind to try something new.  I'd also like to have you all join in and give some personal insights to whichever you prefer and why.

Seems that there is always a thread asking which is better, tab or glove.  Always lots of opinions for both sides.  Personally, I'm a tab guy but I started with a glove as a kid and still have a couple laying around.  I thought I'd post a couple pictures of things that I feel make or break either option and some things that get overlooked.

First off, regardless of tab or glove, I feel there is nothing that beats cordovan leather.  Secondly, cordovan is NOT just a leather dye color.  Real cordovan is both a process and type.  It is made from horse hide and comes from the rear quarters only.  It is also a tanning process used on this hide and it results in a very durable, slick leather that exceeds all others for wear and shine.  The best leather shoes in the world are made from cordovan and so are the best tabs and gloves.

Other products like calf hair, plastic, vinyl or deer skin all have certain properties that make them special but in my opinion, none provide the across the board qualities that cordovan does.  Calf hair is slicker when new but does not last.  Plastic and vinyl are waterproof and slick but can be stiff and honestly, I just prefer the feel of leather over plastic.  Deerskin is the softest, most pliable but wears poorly, grooves easily and is not slick like cordovan.

So, for some pictures.

Here are two Bateman cordovan tabs and a cordovan glove.  Not certain but the glove may be by Bateman also.  The tab on the left has been shot only a little bit while the tab on the right was misplaced for a few days.  The tab on the right has been used for thousands of shots and is about 4 years old.  These things just get better and slicker with age.  Note also that while the well used tab is curled somewhat, there is not really any sign of a groove that is normal on other leathers.  

The glove has not been very heavily used compared to my tab.  I got it with the intent to use it and give the glove a fair try and have shot it a fair bit but in the end, went back to my tab for reasons I'll get to later.
   (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/IMG_3271.jpg)


Why do I like a tab????

Well, to me they feel more natural.  I like being able to wear one over a regular glove when hunting and I like having my fingers free for other things.  But mainly, I can feel my anchor better with a PROPERLY fitting tab than with a glove.  

I actually started this whole topic because on another thread currently going, one of the most common comments against a tab is that people say they can't feel their anchor as well and that is simply not my experience at all.  

The biggest reason is that people buy the wrong size tab to begin with.  Here is a picture of my hand and two tabs.  As you can see, I've got pretty good sized hands.

   (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/IMG_3268.jpg)

In all sorts of work gloves, dress gloves or whatever, I need at LEAST extra large size due to long fingers.  Know what size tab I shoot????  Medium.  I can use a large tab and that is what is on the left but I prefer the medium.

Here is a pic of what it looks like when I'm holding the string with a medium tab.

   (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/IMG_3269.jpg)

And here is with a large tab.

   (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/IMG_3270.jpg)

Now, look at them and think about what you would feel when shooting.  The medium tab would feel like you are shooting with bare fingers as far as how you feel your anchor.  Nothing but fingertips against your face.  With the large tab, you would feel the edge of the leather against your face and it might feel like your anchor is being forced away from your face.  So I can see how people say that but honestly, to me, all gloves do the same thing with the exception of a glove that has the tips of your fingers exposed and there doesn't seem to be many made that way.

Here is a picture of my cordovan glove.  Note the slight groove in each finger stall.  Note also that the grooves are not all in line with each other.  To me, this is one small advantage of a tab that helps provide a smoother release.  I will be fair and say that the groove is not so much a property of the leather as it is of the glove.  The leather is the same in the glove and the tab but in the glove it is formed to your finger and forced to bend in the crease of your knuckle.  I believe this is what causes the crease more so than the string.  Either way, it's not a big deal since your fingers line up on the string when you pull but I believe that for a guy like me who is not a crack shot that a tab provides just a little bit of forgiveness in my release that is lacking in a glove.  I think that sometimes, if you don't get your fingers aligned exactly right, you can get a bad release with the glove that wouldn't have happened with the tab.  I also expect that guys who shoot all the time with a glove and are good shots have simply learned to be more precise in their finger placement whether they realize it or not.

   (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/IMG_3273.jpg)

Well, this is already getting long so I'll post one more picture for now that shows something I feel is important in the design of a glove for good comfort.  That is that the seams of the glove should NOT be along the sides like a work glove but should be along the top where they are completely out of the way to avoid finger pinch.

   (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/IMG_3272.jpg)

This particular glove is very comfortable to shoot but to make it perfect (as far as a glove can get anyway...      :D    ) I'd have to cut the tips out so my finger tips stuck out just a little bit.  That way it would allow the same sense of feel I get with my tab.  But if I did that, I might have to admit that a glove is as good as a tab and I can't do that can I??

So, whadaya think?

Who wants to brag up their glove and show some pictures???  

How about some of you tab guys jumping in too???

Lets start the year off with a good honest debate and keep the swords sharp.  But remember, "play nice".

I like a glove IMO it feels like a controlled extension of my fingers.   :archer:

I have both ,I shoot with both,and both my gloves and tabs are cordavan. They seem to get better with age and use.

Tab here.  I have shot both, but the tab is more consistent and can be used over a wool glove.  It doesn't crease like a glove and you can flip it around your finger so it's out of the way to tie nock sets, etc.  I cut mine to where they are comfortable....don't like extra leather too far past the finger crease, just enough to cover the string and fingers.

I like a tab for all the reasons George stated above.  I've tried several different gloves and I couln't get as clean a release with them and I also had a lot of discomfort due to the tips squashing/pinching the sides of my finger tips against my nails.

I use a medium tab without gloves and a large when I'm wearing gloves.

I like the glove because I have forgot a tab in the past, but I have never forgot my fingers.

Thanks Dave that helped a lot and liked the visual aids. Can't wait to try my tab when it get here. May have to trim it like George does. Thanks again. Philip

I've shot both and prefer the glove. All gloves are not created equal. Mine has no seams and has cordura fingers which never crease and is very slick. I feel I have better control and feel with the glove and it is always where I want it.

I like a tab over a glove and a tab with a separator.

I am using the NEET "Pinch Free"

I seem to have a tendency to pinch arrows without the separator.

Looks like I am going to try to find a Cordovan tab with separator.

Thanks for the tip, Dave.

OK, now for one more advantage of the tab over the glove.

Even though I shoot a tab with a spacer, my spare tab that I carry for "emergencies" is a traditional tab with a finger hole in the leather.  Why carry a different tab for a backup?  Well because it fits in my wallet that's why!  By putting this type of tab in my wallet, I always have my spare on hand.  

Here's a pic of both the Bateman tab with elastic band and spacer and the Neet traditional style.  By the way, the Neet tab has shot even more arrows than the Bateman and is about 10 years or more old.  It's been shot so much that the suede backing layer is smooth and shiny.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/IMG_3275.jpg)

You can see in this last picture that the tab with the spacer would never store in my wallet.  I don't really feel going from a tab with a spacer to one without is an issue for me either.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/IMG_3276.jpg)

I shoot the tab, BUT I take out the rubber spacer....seems to feel better for me that way.
I like tabs because I like the way they feel on my fingertips.

Dave, excellent idea for a thread.

I started with a glove but switched to a tab a long time ago.  Now, if I ever try out a glove, I feel like I am anchoring 3" from my face.  I like the feeling of MY fingertip on my tooth, not a big thick hunk of leather I guess.

Bare fingers...
   Pro's- Cant forget them in the truck. Never have to be replaced.
   
   Con's- Occasionally the calouses fall off   and I have to burn them on the stove for a couple of days to get them back.

subjective stuff.

wanna know what works best for YOU?  try out both types.

i like tabs only - a more naturally soft feel on the string, better string release, easy to make.  i make mine outta 6 or 7 ounce latigo chromed leather.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/thetab.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/latigo-tab.jpg)

I'm a glove fan..  For me I can get off a much faster shot.  The string can  get between fingers and tab if your not watching.  Not so with a glove.

                           Jeff

I also vote for the tab purely due to the anchor point thing but I've always wondered why Howard Hill, Fred Bear, and Byron Fergueson all shoot a glove!

As Dennis Kamstra once wrote "you can't pick your nose with a glove". Tabs win hands down.

Okay, question.

All you guys who shoot a tab, do you size yours about the same as me or do you have more tab sticking out?

You guys who say you have tried a tab and didn't like it because it got in the way of your anchor, how big was your tab?  Would you be willing to try again with it trimmed down a bit?

i trim my tabs as small as possible.

I just use mine as is. Never thought about trimming it. Might give it a try.

I like the tab, but I am still trying gloves when I get a chance.  I have just short of a large size so I use a medium.  I may try a small.  My tab goes to about my first joint on an open hand and not to the end of the fingers on the string.  I like that I can fell my anchor flesh to flesh, and that gets me closer to my eye also with the string.

Tab advantage for me is they are cheap like me.  About $8-9 and you can get a cordovan tab that will last for years.

Dave,
I started out with a large. Plain cordovan (no spacer)tab from Screamin eagle. Fairly lare paws.
Went to a medium and never looked back.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j297/treeyelpr/cordovan-shooting-tab.jpg)

Dave,

I like this thread and agree with most of what you have said.  I love the feel of a small tab and use the same tab that you have in your wallet.  I'm pretty sure it is made by Neet.

The only things that I have to add is that while I prefer a tab and think I shoot better with i, I do have to admit the "old school" looking gloves score more cool points for style.
  :bigsmyl:

Chris Kinslow said

"  The only things that I have to add is that while I prefer a tab and think I shoot better with it, I do have to admit the "old school" looking gloves score more cool points for style."

Okay.... ya got me.      :readit:          :biglaugh:    And by the way, that old style tab in my picture IS a Neet brand tab.

I'll tell ya, the one type of glove I'd love to try would be something about like Howard Hill shows in his book "Hunting The Hard Way".  He shows individual finger stalls with a single seam down the back of the finger which was the common style back then.  That is, stalls made to fit each finger that were not connected to form a glove.  Next to those, he shows the finger stalls connected by three pieces of leather lace joined to a wrist strap which would in essence form what we today call a shooting glove but with more of a "skeleton" frame than the usual full back like the one in my earlier pictures.  Something like that with open finger tips would likely be the very best thing a glove can be without actually being a tab (HA! had to get one more dig in there for the tabs...)

Do any of you know of a glove made today that is real cordovan with a single seam down the back of each finger and open ends????

I have been using a smaller tab for a long time as well Dave.I trim the bigger ones down for a custom fit.My fingers do protrude as yours and it allows the feel you need to be precise in your anchor.I prefer the tooth as its the most precise and easy to feel spot being hard the way it is compared to skin.

I also like a ledge on mine for string allignment to be exact everytime.The string rests right in front of the ledge the full width of the tab so nothings cockeyed.Everthings alligned for a nice even pull.I like a finger spacer.I also like the tab to fit reasonably tight.I use a Cavalier Elite alot the last couple of years and it cinches down tight on the middle finger.

I like cordovan like most people.Eagles flight Archery has a new tab that uses unborn calf hair I believe?Its very slick and its said that the hair on these tabs does not fall out like other hair faced tabs.

I have used gloves alot and shot them exclusivly for years but have been using the tab only for about the last 7 years.I dont think I will be switching back.

When shooting gloves I used a slick shot that had the nylon overlays,kinda thick overlays.Also A Hill with the plastic inserts in the stalls.Those did not groove much at all.You cant feel the string much with those.I got a good release with the Hill and inserts.I also shot a thinner glove with cordovan tips over leather that was a good glove and allowed for good string feel and slick release and also very thin damascus glove.They certainly work and like stated above have the cool factor locked down.

Some guys I have talked to use a golf glove or batting glove on their lighter weight bows

Interesting thread and I think you bring up good and valid points for people to ponder and consider.

TTT for Gen273

Wow,talk about a blast from the past. I was googling cordovan tabs because I need a new one and got a hit on this practically ancient post.  I think I'm still using the same Bateman tab from this post and the leather is still just fine but the elastic is now shot.

Con of a glove- everything! Such as can't pick your nose, can't wear them over a glove, the list goes on and on!

Good points, I could never get on with a tab but after seeing this im going to try to make one out of some latigo scraps I have.

The last three or four years I have played with a tab in the off season.  I shoot weekly year round.

I have hunted with  a  tab, but often when I am struggling with my practice, I pick up my American Leather Glove and things straighten out.  I don't know why that works.

I have never trimmed my tabs the way some of you do, this winter I will have to give it a try.  Mainly because  I  often hunt in cold weather, and would like to wear a cotton or thin wool glove with a tab over it.

Thanks for reviving this tab, Dave.

I like both, but prefer my American Leathers Kangaroo crossover.  I've never tried another glove that I like.  One thing I prefer about tabs is that I carry a sidearm when in bear country, and the glove doesn't allow clean access to the trigger like a tab, which flies out of the way fast and easy.

I have used both and have always seemed to shoot equally well either way. I now use tabs, because I can wear my tab over my light weight gloves. This helps both with the camo effect and keeping my fingers warmer. This may not work for you northern guys due to the much colder weather you have.

I liked a tab for warm weather shooting and over a cotton work glove in cold weather hunting. I tried 3or4 different brands but settled on the Black Widow. When I was shooting 80+# I glued an extra piece of leather to the back.
A tab would still be a favorite if not for an old injury to my trigger finger really showing up with my senior years. The nock of the arrow sits agianst that side of my finger. Hurts like he.. when I release. So I went to "gloves" After a love/hate relationship with them I tried one of the first American Leathers Kangaroo Crossover gloves. I found "my" glove. After a year and a half it shows no signs of wear, cool enough in our summer heat and fits perfect. Costly yes but worth every penny to me.

I have always used a glove.   I guess I like the fact that its covering over my fingers and I don't have to 'apply' a tab to the string to shoot. But, maybe if I got used to a tab it wouldn't feel like an extra step.  I use the glove on a fingerless mitten and that works well for keeping warm.  Tab seems like a separate piece of equipment 'floating' out there someplace that has to be 'applied' to the string where as a glove is just a covering of your fingers you don't have to think about.  I bet I'll try a tab and like it at some point (LOL!!) based on how many seem to prefer it!

Dan

I never realized the impact the correct release aid had on your shooting accuracy. I had tried both tabs and shooting gloves over the years. I finally settled on a tab made of cordovan from a guy across the ocean by the name of Lazio Varga. I could not believe how much better I can shoot after obtaining the tab that he made. I bought four of them in case he ever quit making them. I don't even know who he is. I think I got his name off this forum. It was the best thing I did in a long time to make shooting fun again.

I ama tab guy. I started with a glove a loooooong time ago. I switched to a tab in the middle of a hunt up north where my glove got all wet and I could not get off the string good enough to make a decent shot. I've only shot 2 different tabs. I started out with a Super Archery Mitt. It is a great tab, with the exception of being very hard to break in. They are so bad when new, I don't know how they ever sold!!!!

I now shoot a Saunders Pak-Tab. This is by far my favorite of all time. The Pak-Tab is slicker than owl dung, impervious to water, will not soak up scent, and lasts forever!!! I would venture to guess the one I am currently using has over 10,000 shots thru it, and other than a little discoloring, looks just about like a brand new one.

One note about the Pak-Tab: A couple years ago, Saunders changed the way they are made. The newer ones are stiffer, and not nearly as good as the older ones IMHO.

Tab or glove is really a personal preference thing, but I am cettain that I get a cleaner release with a tab.

Bisch

I like gloves the best but shoot better with a tab.

I personally like a glove better. When it gets cold, I can trim a regular glove to keep my hands warm by cutting the tips down just below the stalls of my shooting glove and my entire shooting hand stays warm !

I use both but mostly a glove. As a bowhunter I find a good quality glove more convenient and foolproof.

I far prefer the glove.  Good arguments for the tab, but I got accustomed to the glove, and became reasonably skillful with it, so I don't want to change now.

Started with a glove. Shot that way for a long time, but every time I wanted to use my hand I had to take the glove off and on again... A couple years ago Dan Toelke sent me one of his tab kits to try. I shoot split finger and haven't gone back to any of my gloves. The tab has really worked for me: better release, much easier to adjust size and I can flip it over to the back of my hand when I need to use it for anything. It's the only tab I've tried but it works really well for me so I haven't needed to try others... yet.

I started with a tab and shot for a few years, also shot with sights good enough to a win the California state broadhead shoot in  August of 1970. In October I went home on leave for 40 days to hunt. One day I missed the same 8 pt buck 4 times! When I got back to Ca I took off the sights, picked up a new Glove and went out to Santa Cruz Island and proceed to shoot 3 sheep and 3 hogs in 3 days and have never switched back. Like Tradcat I trim back the first 3 fingers on my outside gloves when the weather requires. I have tried shooting tabs some since but always come back to the glove.