I have about talked myself into trying a ILF recurve. I can't deciede on limbs and a riser. Here is what I am thinking I want;
1. don't care if it is wood or metal, but want a medium recurve grip - made of wood.
2. I will try an elevated rest, but want to go back to a rug rest if I don't like it.
3. I want good limbs, and will go to great limbs if I like the bow setup. I don't want K Mart limbs and not give the bow a chance because I went cheap on limbs.
4. not at all interested in fancy woods.
5. I shoot recurves in the 56 to 58 inch range, thinking of staying in the range, but might go to 60".
6. I am not anti sight or stabilizer, but won't start with them.
7. bow will be tried on 3D and hunting, if I like it.
8. I don't want to invest big bucks to start, but want a good bow - if that makes sense.
OK, boys and girls, give me some recomendations.
One realization that I came to with plunger buttons is they are very acurate, but I couldn't switch between all my different arrows quickly without adjusting the plunger settings.
When I was up hunting this last season, I found that after I was up there for a while a started to tire and I shot arrows with a light spine better than the ones that I intended to use. Shooting off the shelf just makes things simpler, and I don't break anywhere near as many arrows shooting target. But I find using the BW system of having the parallax channel makes the shelf capable of impressive accuracy. And as long as the arrows are spined close, you can shoot all different arrows out of your quiver when hunting with stump arrows. Half the arrows I have with me when elk hunting are stump arrows for small game.
OK same song but a different verse. I wouldn't mind trying it in a longbow and I am positive I don't want anything in metal in my hands. Like you said, it doesn't need to be pretty but functional and strong.
I hope you don't mind if I'm tagging in on your thread. If it's a problem just say so and I can start somewhere else.
Thanks in advance!
For any who might be posting to help please be clear if you're speaking of a recurve or longbow so I won't confuse myself.
Thanks again.
God bless,Mudd
Jump in here Mudd!!! And I also can see me trying longbow limbs someday if I like the system. I just like the thought of changing draw weights and adjusting the bow to suite the situation. Another question, are you guys shooting flemish or endless loop strings on your ILFs?
I just bought a Tradtech Onyx this fall and really like it. I found a cheap pair of used KAP limbs from a Tradganger and they perform really well. They are mediums and make a 58" bow. I can't wait to see what some high performance limbs can do. It is a neat little set up and I really like how you can adjust tiller and center shot.
I'm making my own 10 strand padded to 20 8125 Flemish strings for most of all my bows.
Right now I just have three sets of ILF Carbon Foam Long Bow limbs. I do want to try some recurve limbs too. I'm getting stunning performance, to say the least. I have a set of 46@28lb long bow limbs that are gapping at 60 yards with a 12 grains per pound arrow. 31 1/4 340 with 300 grains up front. That is with a corner of the mouth split finger hold. About a 30 inch draw on that.
The best use of the adjustment bolts on ILF bows is not to adjust draw weight.You are only going to get about 5% up and 5% down anyway.The adjustment bolts are to set the preload of the limbs by adjusting the limb pocket angle.Adjusting the preload allows for the best performance at a certain draw length.
Even with the adjustments you still have to consider your draw length when selecting limbs.A guy drawing 30" or more still doesn't need to be shooting a 58" bow IMHO.Maby some of the ultra short and deflexed newer risers will allow that but still not the best situation IMHO.
The preload really shines for the 25"-27" draw guys.They can usually get more performance than from bows designed to handle a wider range of draw lengths.
Whatever you choose I suggest Winex limbs for all but the extreme long draw.My research suggests the Samick Masters may be a little better for the longer draw guys.
I don't think you will get the full benefit from these bows unless you go to a stiff metal riser.We are still only talking about small percentages and any cut in stiffness affects thoes very small percentages.
Even with a wood riser you still have the limb availibity options enjoyed by the ILF system so if pretty is tops just get something you like.
I have been shooting a Tradtech Pinnacle with the standard recurve 50# wood/glass limbs for a couple of years now, and have been very happy. I was exactly where you were. If you were to look at my wants in a bow it would have looked exactly like yours. I went with an ILF bow as well so I could upgrade the limbs or buy different # limbs on down the road. I am shooting off the shelf and getting good results. I drilled the riser to put on a kwikee quiver bracket, I never would have thought about doing that to a high $ custom bow. Take a look around there are plenty of ILF's on the market now. I mainly use flemish strings on my bow, probably because I enjoy making them more. Good luck in your search.
Eric
Number 2, the elevated rest option is the issue with me.
I have a Hoyt Excel that for all of the above requests it can handle it. You can shoot from an elevated rest, use whatever ILF limbs you want, use a Hoyt wood grip, BUT to shoot it off the shelf , because of the depth of the riser, you will need to build it up. It's the big reason for off the shelf ILF risers I would choose the Morrison. He did at one point have a metal riser that looked like a real winner. But unfortunately he does not seem to make it anymore. Dang it, I wanted one.
http://www.skyarchery.com/ Jim Belcher... (http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/mm337/smonte_2008/IMG_0217.jpg)
Shawn...
Since you like shorter bows, a 17" riser with short limbs will give you a 58" bow. I draw 29" and have no problems with that setup. While the ilf system does allow some weight adjustment, for me it is more of being able to find the correct tiller for my taste. Remember most ilf limbs are scaled for a 25" riser, you will gain 1 pound for every inch your riser is shorter. My favorite limb that won't break the bank is the Samick Universal Carbon wood. They run about $180 but they do have all the target graphics on them. The TT Black max limbs are the same ones from my understanding, just void of the graphics for $220.
I should add the TradTech limbs are scaled for 17 or 19 inch risers, depending on model.
Mel,
See if you can find a Morrison ILF. It can do anything you are talking about except perhaps meet your price objective. Maybe you can find a used one at a price that you like. One thing I can just about guarantee is that if you have ever shot any Morrison bow and like it, you will also like the ILF with similar limbs -- either longbow or recurve (or both).
Allan
I know you don't want to spend a lot of money but this the Border's new wood ILF riser. Cost a bit but is bombproof and by all reports the HEX 5 limbs are the "world's best" ILF hunting limbs.
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Arrowworks/Sidriser.jpg)
How about $498 for a bow/limbs!
Good stuff as well.
Trad Tech 15" Black Onyx Riser $279
Black Max CarbonWood Limbs $219
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58/genecharb/TradTechBlackOnyxRiser-15in279.gif)
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58/genecharb/TradTechBlackMaxCarbonLimbs219ea.gif)
Makes for a 56-60" bow with the short/med/long limbs
Riser is Black Phenolic with wood accents
Std ILF connections
Made to shoot of shelf (Or stick on rest, no burger button hole)
Limbs are all black, in color, and carbon over maple core
I just got this very same setup. It's in the mail.
Did a lot of research, best bang for buck, and both the riser and especially the limbs have a very high approval rating on the forums. Lot of folks are saying these limbs are as good as others costing twice the price.
For another $50 you can get basically the same riser, but with more wood.
The Recon $329
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58/genecharb/TradTechReconRiser-15in329.gif)
Gene, that is just the setup that I was thinking about. They are out of the Onyx riser in righthand, and won't be getting any more.
Mel
I was lucky enough to find a riser used from a fellow trad-ganger.
I haven't gotten a confirmation email back yet from Trad Tech on the limbs. I ordered yesterday. They are real popular right now. If they are back-ordered, I sure will wait.
Good luck in your search.
To get the most from it I would stick with a metal riser.They have more centershot,the grips are interchangable ect so you have more options.The wood risers look good are more like shooting a regular recurve.No holes for rest/plungers,not drilled for quivers,mounts ect and just not as ridged as the real thing.Unless you have a long draw mid priced limbs will get you very close in performance to the most costly limbs out there.If you shoot heavier arrows you can count on one hand the speed difference in a $150 set of limbs and a $700 set.There will be about two hands difference if you want to shoot light arrows however. :) jmho
Given what you're looking for, you may want to take a look at a TradTech Titan riser with short Black Max limbs. You can get the riser with a low-, medium-, or high-wrist wood grip.
Sky Archery, 3Rivers, Morrison and Dryad are all sponcers here who offer ILF setup's.
I wish it weren't so but for the most part I feel like the dog going to the vet. He hears, "Come Spot, blah, blah, blah good dog spot.
I hate being dyslexic, all I want is the words to make a picture for my mind to see and it just ain't happening.
God bless,Mudd
PS: Anybody care to translate for a dummy?
I am with you Mudd on this. My problem is spending the money, getting a riser and a set of limbs and realizing that all the adjustability and such are just not for me. I might have to keep my eyes out for a used riser.
Mudd
You can get either recurve or longbow ILF limbs now.
Not sure on what your not clear, but let me say this.
The whole ILF hunting style bow started with "hunter types" ;) wanting to try high performance ILF "target bow" style limbs on shorter less complex risers. Most target risers were 25"+/-a couple".
Recently some new ILF limbs seem to have been designed just for the new short risers, and some longbow limbs as well. I know Morrison, Trad Tech. Not sure, but I believe Dryad. Maybe some others make both recurve and lonbbow ILF limbs.
Another big plus is if you have 2-3 ILF risers, and a couple sets of limbs, they are all interchangeable. All kinds of possibilities. Plus there are lots of older and good ILF target limbs out there used for cheap. Just have to do something about the gaudy graphics on the target limbs.
Not sure if this is any help,or if I am on the right track of your questions.?
You DONT't have to mess with settings, If you dont want. There is not really much to set. You CAN adjust for tiller (say split shooter, or 3-under shooter). YOu can adjust weight (but very little). You can shoot off the shelf. If you like fooling around with setting you can, or just leave it set "stock".
These PSE's look like just the ticket..
http://www.pse-archery.com/cat.php?k=318325
I was in the same boat several years ago. I bought a metal DAS 17"riser and limbs when they came out and havent looked back. Once they are set up you just leave it alone. Its the way to go. I just use a bear weather rest on mine. I have the cheap limbs that I painted and they work very well. I havent found a better shooting recurve yet.If I was to do it now I would probably go with the other 17 inch riser with the ILF fitting.
SL
I love my morrison ILF and its one of my favorite bows, shoots hard and is super quite.
I think you are really going to like that setup Gene. I have the same limbs you ordered and I think you are going to be VERY pleasantly surprised.
A good friend of mine has the Black Max limbs in the wood core version and I gotta tell you that they are no slouches either. Not quite as smooth as the carbons but at only a buck thirty, it is a whale of a limb.
Mudd,
Maybe this will help. If you think it terms of a metal riser like "James on laptop" was saying, you can choose from a variety of risers from about 150 bucks to about 700 bucks or so. Pick a set of limbs that you want, in the length that you want, and in the weight that you want, from any maker that you want, in the price range that you want and snap them in. Thats the beauty of the ILF system. The all fit together.
I don't know about all places but at TradTech, they will set it up, specifically for you, before they even send it to you. If you want to shoot off the shelf, they will set it up for you. If you want to shoot off a rest, they will do the same. When you get it, snap the limbs in, string it up and you are ready to go. From that point on, any personal tweaking that you would want to do such as brace height, nock height, silencers, etc. is no different than any other bow that you may have.
Over time, you might want to change some things like maybe the grip. Decide which grip you want from the choices available and slide it on. Heavier limbs? Snap them in. Switch to longbow limbs? Snap them it. When you start changing limbs, you may have to adjust the tiller but it's no big deal. With the turn of a bolt and a ruler, it's not too tough. Maybe you want to shoot a couple pounds heavier. Crank both limb bolts in an equal amount and your set. Back to the original weight? Turn them back out the same amount.
Once you try it, it is so easy it isn't funny. Trust me, it's a LOT easier than taking your dog to the vet.
Thanks Lenny! For whatever reason your word picture worked for me this time. Eureka!! I got it!! Sounds like it could be a fun adventure but maybe a costly one, at least for the initial set-up.
I know price is all relative but I haven't felt free to get a new bow for a long time and doubt I'll be allowing myself to do it for some time to come.
But who knows maybe someone will need a brush pile or something that I can do some trading for one. Shoot, I'd even furnish the matches to burn said brush pile..lol
God bless,mudd
I have a 52" Morrison ILF and it is one heck of an impressive bow. As others have said, the possibilities are endless in terms of limbs, tiller, and other factors of adjustability. The ILF shoots and feels just like my Cheyenne...just gives me many more options based on the ILF design.
Claudia
3Rivers has a great deal on the 17" Dalaa Riser $330.00. That's close to $200.00 off the price from a few weeks ago.
I bought one from the classified adds, I plan on putting on some Black Max Carbon limbs. I have heard nothing but great things about the limbs.
Yes the possibilities are endless, and have been using these bows for some time now.
However, I just picked up my Anderson Skookum the the other day, and it was so light and so sweet with a muffled thud at at the shot that I feel myself being pulled back the other way.
I put a new set of beaver balls on my string and it was a whisper.
Having done both, I think there is some inherent beauty in a traditional longbow ... of course in my opinion.
For now, I am going back to my roots, but it is good to have both and switch back and forth.
Ghost I believe you and I could get along just fine..lol I've always loved shooting bows and I really don't turn down any opportunities to shoot whatever it happens to be. I do enjoy some more than others but in the end they're all sweethearts.
All I can say is that it's a good thing I changed that attitude when it came to the ladies...lol
God bless,Mudd
PS:Thanks folks for all of the information on ILF's
Mudd,
Yes all my bows are indeed sweethearts and they become more lovely over time. I am so glad that I can switch according to my moods.
Now with the ladies ... I have commitment issues, co-dependent problems, don't know what I want, I am sophomoric, emotionally immature. At least this is what my wife tells me ... if I could only switch them according to my moods as well.
When you really think about it, the ladies are pretty much ILF also. BUT, you might just as well get a one piece cuz once one you pick a setup, there really isn't much changing going to happen.
That is of course if you plan on keeping the same riser.
;)
The chronology of words rendered by my wife:
How interesting ... your perfect ... I love you ... I do ... NOW CHANGE!!!
I'll stick with bows.
Now back to ILF bows.
is the Dalaa 17inch riser an ILF riser? My catalog seems to say it isn't.
No it is not.
Greg
The 17" Dalaa does not have the dovetail ILF plates at the limb pad area.It will however accept any ILF limb by changing the ILF bushing on the limb to a threaded bushing.
The ILF plates are offered as an option on the 21" Dalaa.
I think the more I read the confusider I getz...lol
I saw some older risers like from Hoyt target bows, are those ILF type bows? I've tried looking thru take-down bows and can't tell what's what. Apparently not all bows are ILF system friendly. Is something like a pse sable take down one?
God bless,Mudd
Pretty simple really. Unless it accepts the ILF dovetail, it isn't an ILF riser. No different really that the Hoyt Gamemaster or Dorado. Yes, you can modify an ILF limb to fit, but that does not make them an ILF riser.
"International Limb Fitting" means that any ILF limb will fit on any ILF riser without modification. If the riser doesn't accept this type of bushing, it isn't ILF.
(http://www.tradtecharchery.com/Sources/GetImage.axd?own=LA&imageid=326193)
(http://www.tradtecharchery.com/Sources/GetImage.axd?own=LA&imageid=327013)