Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: KSdan on January 05, 2010, 12:08:00 AM

Title: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: KSdan on January 05, 2010, 12:08:00 AM
Hey folks- VERY SERIOUS SITUATION HERE     :eek:      

I am a serious LW stand guy.  It is about all I have used for 14+ years.  One stand, sticks, and I am very portable/stealthy.

Had a dangerous thing occur tonight- FIRST TIME EVER!  VERY SERIOUS!!     :scared:      

I attached the stand as usual.  But when I stepped on the stand the strap SLIPPED.  It slipped through the buckle- NOT like it was greased- but enough that the stand gave way.  Fortunately I was in a cedar tree with many limbs that caught the stand and gave me limbs to stand on.     :pray:    

Upon inspection, what I found was that through literally hundreds of sets- the buckle binder (which has rough teeth for binding the strap) was actually dirty with embedded dirt and bark from all the use. (It was not readily noticeable.)  The buckle was unable to bind/grip the strap.
 
VERY DANGEROUS! When I got home (after shooting a doe I might add!) I pulled the strap out and cleaned the buckle with a wire brush.  It is now good as new!

BEWARE!  Nothing wrong with LW- they are GREAT stands- but even they need maintenance.

Dan in KS
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Bowmania on January 05, 2010, 12:33:00 AM
This year in WI we had a freezing rain.  Had my LW hung while it was going on.  After I wanted to move.  Took it down and up it up in the new spot.  Standing on the second stick I noticed that it wasn't as tight as when I put it up.  I dropped down to the first stick and found the buckle was frozen and would not grip the strap.  Upon examination I found all four buckles would not work the way they were intended.

Bowmania
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: JMartin on January 05, 2010, 12:47:00 AM
These kind of stories send chills down my spine. Very dangerous situation.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: KSdan on January 05, 2010, 01:15:00 AM
Bowmania- I even wondered about that as well- it is in the single digits here- I wonder if they lose some griping ability when it gets this cold and some moisture gets on the straps. . . no doubt though that my buckle was quite dirty.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: sdpeb1 on January 05, 2010, 02:33:00 AM
I always use a rachet strap on mine for extra saftey- Steve
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Bow man on January 05, 2010, 06:20:00 AM
Thanks for the warning. Glad you did not fall
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Mudd on January 05, 2010, 06:52:00 AM
I guess some would say that "I am just a fraidycat in my old age" because I won't climb trees any more. I felt the ole pucker factor go up just reading about your episode. I am so very grateful that you are ok. Thank you for passing on what you learned from experience to those who can and will take your advice to heart.

Any fall can spell disaster especially during this period of extreme cold temps brought on by all  this "global warming" we are experiencing.

Thanks for sharing!
God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Steve O on January 05, 2010, 07:23:00 AM
Dan,

I'm pretty sure the owners manual says to change the straps annually.  Nobody is going to do that, but the company has covered thier a$$...

Good idea to remind everyone to check their stands, straps, and safety harnesses.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: rraming on January 05, 2010, 07:24:00 AM
You may just want to buy a new strap set every few years and plan this in with your hunting budget
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: oneshot-onekill on January 05, 2010, 07:53:00 AM
I've never had an issue but....I inspect mine every yr and replace every 2 yrs....Thanks for sharing, very good info for us LW guys....glad you didnt fall!
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: SpikeMaster on January 05, 2010, 08:16:00 AM
No one should fall out of a tree or treestand if you're wearing your safety harness. Be connected to the tree all the way up, while sitting in the stand, and all the way down. I know it's more convenient not to use it but it could prevent serious injury or death.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: KSdan on January 05, 2010, 09:57:00 AM
Thanks for the thoughts. . . I realize buying new ones is for liability but I am not sure this situation is equipment failure (as in: the strap/buckle is broke) rather, it gathered dirt and debris over time.  

As far as attaching all the way up- that is impossible in most trees I go up.  I know IBEP teaches that and I hear guys say it, but I hunt KS where everything is crooked and full of limbs!(Try tying in at the ground in a cedar tree or Osage tree!) I would rather keep two arms/hands (3 point contact) on the tree than removing my grip by messing around with ropes. I do tie onto the tree using a climber's seat when setting the stand and before stepping on.  Funny though, I never see guys tie up when climbing on 8' ladders around the house. . .

Thanks for the input- stay safe

Dan in KS
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Dave Bulla on January 05, 2010, 10:29:00 AM
Glad you were in a situation where you had all the limbs to hold on to Dan.  

As for staying tied in, about the only way you can do it on a tree with lots of limbs is to have two separate tie ropes and when you get to a limb, you hook one above it before you disconnect the one below it as you go up.  My seat of the pants harness uses a heavy rope and prussic knot that would be a bit bulky to pack two of them around but my LW that I just got came with a harness that has a much smaller diameter rope.  I'd seriously consider buying another one just for the reasons we're talking about.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Tom Phillips on January 05, 2010, 10:32:00 AM
Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: luv2bowhunt on January 05, 2010, 10:34:00 AM
Replacing the straps every couple of years is a cheap insurance policy! Thanks for the insight though, I will definately be keeping an eye on mine and cleaning the buckle periodically!
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Paul/KS on January 05, 2010, 11:37:00 AM
Glad the tree caught you and that you are OK Dan.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: George D. Stout on January 05, 2010, 12:28:00 PM
I'm with Mudd.  There's no way this old butt is climbing a tree...ever.  Every year people die in treestand failures, or carelessness in their use.  Every year warnings are given, and every year someone doesn't check something, or whatever, and down they go.  And, everyone here probably knows someone who has fallen.

I wonder now why I ever used the darned things.  They are noisy, cold, and potentially dangerous, and I see as many deer while hunting from the ground.  No thanks to any tree stands for this guy.  Glad you were not hurt, by the way....warnings should be heeded.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: George D. Stout on January 05, 2010, 12:30:00 PM
Now I know someone here is going to tell me how silently they can climb a tree.  I will bet, however, that I can hear them from fifty yards away easily, and if I can, so can the critters.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: dragonheart on January 05, 2010, 12:31:00 PM
I would replace the strap with a racket strap for added insurance.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Morning Star on January 05, 2010, 01:30:00 PM
Not the first occurance with LW straps.  Had the same thing happen to myself and have heard of other incidents similar.  I couldn't tell why by looking at my strap.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: KSdan on January 05, 2010, 02:13:00 PM
The friction thing is the weak link. Maybe a good rope and knot is the answer.  Ratchets may work on the stand but that still does not deal with the sticks. I am going to research climber's equipment.

Tying in at the bottom is just not feasible or safe in most of the trees I hunt.  I would rather be in shape and hang on until I reach the 8-10' mark- then tie in my climber's seat harness for the final few feet and stand set.  Fiddling with ropes means you are not hanging on. . . I would rather keep three-point contact.

Thanks for all the input
Dan
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: NDTerminator on January 05, 2010, 05:25:00 PM
Man alive, did you soil your camo?
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: far rider on January 05, 2010, 05:31:00 PM
Boy that's good info there. Thanks for sharing, but thank you God it didn't turn out any worse, be careful bud! Glad your OK>  :pray:
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: joevan125 on January 05, 2010, 05:39:00 PM
I have had a ole man tree stand for 10 yrs and every time i climb a tree i get to thinking, i wonder if one of those bolts might be rusted bad enough for it to break.

You cant tell because it is inside the stand.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Lone archer on January 05, 2010, 06:16:00 PM
I actually had something similar happen to me. My LW Alpha was hanging in the same tree since last season. At the beginning of this season I checked everything out before climbing into it the first hunt. Actually I repositioned it alittle. I hunted at least twenty times out of the stand with no problems. After the first snow/freezing rain we had I was standing on stand with a nice buck out about fifty yards. When I positioned for the shot the stand just pitched forward about two inches. I was belted in with the old style waist belt and another around the tree so I did not fall forward but was pulled back towards the tree which I believe caused the stand to reset. If I was wearing my body harness I think I would have over reacted and feel out of the stand. I jumped on the stand at the end of the hunt and nothing happened. Some how the strap managed to slip thru the buckle every so slightly due to the fact the belt was frozen.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: reddogge on January 05, 2010, 06:44:00 PM
I use two lineman's belts and I'll hook one above the limb before unhooking the one below the limb.  I don't care how slow it is at least I know I'm not taking a fall with one slip up.  Use a prussik or slip knot so you can adjust the belt length to hang safely while you hook and unhook.  I'll be 66 soon so climbing isn't as easy as it used to be but falling is too easy now.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: NightHawk on January 05, 2010, 06:54:00 PM
I'm a professional climber and there's no way, I will use LW products, they just don't seem safe, to me.
I work as a lineman for a local power utility so I have some experience climbing things. Something that people don't realize is; if there's ice on the tree, you want to climb with your stand on the icy side and, if you use climbing sticks, always put them on the icy side
 Having two lineman belts in the same d-ring is a hazzard. Do not do that, you will fall, it's only a matter of time. It's also an osha rule not to have 2 belts in the same ring
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Morning Star on January 05, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
I'm gonna find a different strap system for next year. Getting to be to many "coincidences". It shouldn't be to hard to come up with something safer and just as easy to use.  The stand itself is a terrific design.

I use utility constrictor ropes on my LW sticks.  If ya want to get rid of the straps on them, that's a decent way to go.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: joe ashton on January 05, 2010, 09:27:00 PM
how scary.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: KSdan on January 05, 2010, 09:33:00 PM
Mike- after your posts you have me thinking as well.  I really thought it was the debris; and I am sure that was the main culprit, but after your and others posts, this has me thinking about the cold.

I want something I can do with one hand, as I never let go of the tree (3 pts contact).  I am curious about the constrictor ropes- but if I understand them correctly it takes two hands.

I am checking into rope and climbing knots of some sort. For the sticks I am thinking half hitches on a cleat like used on a boat.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: lpcjon2 on January 05, 2010, 09:42:00 PM
First thing I do on all my stands is put a brand new ratchet strap and throw away the manufacturers.and a safety rope does help.
KSdan I did a lot of rock climbing and there is no one hand knot that you can use unless you have a prussic and a safety rope.all you need is a climbing strap and a carabiner ( or one 6' rope with a loop and a carabiner) and do it like the loggers,put it around you and the tree before you go up and keep moving until you get to the set point and you can lean back on it and free up your hands.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: limbow on January 05, 2010, 09:44:00 PM
Check out this website.         www.gomuddy.com/shopping/Departments/Climbing-Sticks.aspx (http://www.gomuddy.com/shopping/Departments/Climbing-Sticks.aspx)                               I really like the way the sticks work. It is similar to climbing gear. I would think it is possible to convert a stand to this type of set up safely. I still prefer the good old fashion chain set up on my stands.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Bahrzoo on January 05, 2010, 10:11:00 PM
Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Earl E. Nov...mber on January 05, 2010, 10:32:00 PM
Anything mechanical can and will fail. It's not a matter of "If" it's a matter of "When" Just like anything else proper care and maintenance will keep everyone safe, warm and fuzzy feeling.

Muddy?  http://www.gomuddy.com/images/documents/061520094914583.pdf

8 pages of instructions.. 6 pages in warnings and special instructions.. I'll stick with my standard issue buckles and keep an eye on them.

A bigger problem to me is the strap getting twisted, and getting the "Twist" pulled into the buckle,, but that's just me..
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: KSdan on January 05, 2010, 11:05:00 PM
Lots of good thoughts/discussion here. . .

I rarely hunt telephone pole trees.  There would be no way to use a "linemans" line in most trees I hunt. And I rarely get in a tree larger than 18" dia.

I also hang everything one handed.  So, whether attaching a strap or tying half hitches- I can do that.

I always have three points of contact. I like hanging on.  I don't step on the third stick or hang the stand until my climber's seat has me attached to the tree (again all one handed).

I suppose staying in shape and having arms like a monkey (6' 4"- 36" arms) helps a bunch too.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: KSdan on January 05, 2010, 11:07:00 PM
I checked Muddy sticks. . . pretty cool.  Again depending on friction though.  Not so sure about icy/wet ropes??
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: 30coupe on January 05, 2010, 11:12:00 PM
I add an extra ratchet strap to mine so I have three straps: one with the hook, one on the top button, and the ratchet strap on the bottom button. I don't want anything moving when I step on the stand.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Brian Krebs on January 06, 2010, 12:39:00 AM
I really like replacing the strap systems with a chain. Not a dog chain; but a good strong link chain. It might mean a bit more work setting it up; but its not going to come apart - and I have gotten out of a tree to find that the strap had been chewed on by something. That is not a good feeling..always take a second and check your stand before climbing in.
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: Morning Star on January 06, 2010, 12:40:00 AM
QuoteMike- after your posts you have me thinking as well. I really thought it was the debris; and I am sure that was the main culprit, but after your and others posts, this has me thinking about the cold.

I want something I can do with one hand, as I never let go of the tree (3 pts contact). I am curious about the constrictor ropes- but if I understand them correctly it takes two hands.


Yes, somewhat depending on the size of the tree, but it's usually two hands for UCR's.  

I use the linemans rope on my Muddy Harness when setting sticks and stands.  After you get a good feel for using a lineman's rope, you can lean into it and two hands is no big deal.....very safe.  When climbing, the rope gives you that 3rd contact point.

Using the rope also helps you be able to use both hands for securing your tag line prior to climbing into your stand.   And that's the step that's gonna save a guys butt!
Title: Re: Treestand Users-BEWARE!
Post by: ziggy on January 06, 2010, 07:56:00 AM
Dan, Glad to here you are OK!!!!

Here are my 2 cents (as usual):
- using the linemans belt/strap/rope with two sets is a good idea even if you always use three points of contact.  Do I do this?  Not yet but it is on my list of things to get done before next season.  It sure beats spending the rest of your life in a wheel chair.
- I use a different type of sticks than you and can put them on the tree with one hand.  They tie on.  I try to replace the ropes every couple of years.  Again, another task on my list for this summer.
- The wife got me a chippewa wedge loc (Chief model) for Chirstmas.  I was hoping I wouldn't like it and could return it due to the expense.  I've used it twice and now you will need to take it from me by force (not that big of deal for most of you, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to put up a fight).  Setup is a dream and it is quiet and light.