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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Ryan Rothhaar on January 03, 2010, 04:50:00 PM

Title: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Ryan Rothhaar on January 03, 2010, 04:50:00 PM
Had an interesting hunt the other day.  I shot a good sized doe - hit looked good, maybe just a tad back, but a solid passthrough shot in the ribs with a big 160 Snuffer on a 7 yard broadside deer.  Gave her a couple hours to be sure then went back with a couple of helpers and our Dachshund pup Oskar that we've been training to blood track.  Figured this would be a simple 75-100 yard track in the snow and load her up and bring her home.

We started the track about 3h after the hit and tracking went well with moderate blood for the first 75 yards then got into a CRP field and things became interesting.  2 hours later we had found 6-8 wound beds with decreasing blood and covered around 450 yards of trail in the CRP field before the dog took me across a county road.  After the first 150 yards or so in the CRP grass the blood was very spotty, even in the snow.  After crossing the road I heard the deer jump and go off - keep in mind I had watched the (shaving sharp) Snuffer tipped arrow go through her ribs several hours before this.  Oskar started tracking hot at this point and we took her another 200 yards or so and came upon her bedded down 10 yards away, still alive.  We are not allowed to carry a weapon when tracking with a dog so at this point things were at a dead end.  After 20-30 min the doe jumped up and ran into the timber.  Assessment of the wound bed showed only a couple of spots of blood and no visible blood on the flight path.  I decided to back out at that point, and my helpers convinced me that I had a non-fatal hit (shoulder or back) and that the deer would live.

That night I kept thinking about the situation and I was convinced that this deer was mortally wounded - I knew what I saw at the hit.  I went back in the morning with Oskar and put him in the deer's last bed.  There was an additional 1-1.5 inches of new snow, so there was no visible trail, but he tracked directly to the dead deer approx 75-100 yards further into the timber.  The coyotes got one hind quarter, but I salvaged the rest of the deer and got closure for myself (and Oskar) on the track.

This is a virtually unbelievable situation to me - the deer was hit 3-4 inches forward of the diaphragm through the chest and there was a visible Snuffer hole through the back lobe of both lungs.  I can only attribute this deer living so long (around 5h) and travelling so far (approx 800 yards) to very bad luck in evidently not striking a major vessel/artery in the back of the lungs.

The deer may have been found the next morning closer to the hit site, but I would not generally give a chest shot deer more than 4 hours before tracking regardless.

This is the strangest thing I've personally ever witnessed on probably 80-100 blood trails, and certainly would have never found this deer without the dog.  

This is my first year tracking with a dog, and Oskar (5 months old) is 12 for 12 on mortally hit deer this fall.  I'll never be without access to a blood tracking dog from now on if I can help it.  

Ryan


The top picture is the entry wound, and the bottom is the exit wound.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/Dec29Doe2EntryWound.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/Dec29Doe2ExitWound.jpg)
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Stone Knife on January 03, 2010, 04:55:00 PM
Nice follow up   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: L82HUNT on January 03, 2010, 04:56:00 PM
Dogs are truly amazing.  Good job keeping with it.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Kenkel on January 03, 2010, 04:57:00 PM
Awesome!!  I just got a little 5 month old Dachsund and am very interested in these types of posts.  Any help training him would be very much appreciated!  Great job on stickin with it!
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: owlbait on January 03, 2010, 04:58:00 PM
Ryan, do you think the cold weather helped slow down the bleeding? I saw a neck shot doe lay with its neck pressed into the snow get up from its bed and leave a minimal blood trail. The trail to that bed was, however, impressive.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Tom on January 03, 2010, 04:59:00 PM
Thats amazing that the doe lived that long with that hit, thanks goodness for Oskar also, what a good little tracker.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Guss on January 03, 2010, 05:04:00 PM
Great story and pics! I've got a Jack Russell I've been training this year. Looks like Oskar's gonna be a good one!
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: wingnut on January 03, 2010, 05:04:00 PM
If the wound seals at all and the lungs do not deflate.  You are only dealing with bleeding and back and up doesn't bleed as well as down and forward in cavity.

How much blood was in the cavity when you openned her up.

Mike
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: jacobsladder on January 03, 2010, 05:08:00 PM
Nice doe.... Its amazing how some deer will leave blood a blind man can follow and then others leave pin drops...even when they are hit good.... My guess is that you clipped a lung and she was going down, but got pushed a tad...a little extra adrenaline kept her going..... Way to stick with it and congrats on your trophy.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Covey on January 03, 2010, 05:10:00 PM
I'd like to find me one of them wiener dog's! I've heard good thing's about them. Jason
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: dpowers311 on January 03, 2010, 05:13:00 PM
Do you think the coyotes got to her before she died? I am also curious about how much blood was in the chest when you opened her.

Way to keep at it.
Dave
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Bonebuster on January 03, 2010, 07:02:00 PM
How does Oskar take the cold?

We have a couple mini wieners at our house, and they absolutely hate the cold. A few minutes outside to do their business is all they can stand.

No chance the broadhead could have gotten confused with one that was not sharp? A practice arrow perhaps?

The location of the hit would be what we would all figure as a good one.

I remember many lessons tracking deer with my late, great, Basset named Bart.

Great job done by all!

Oskar looks great...soon to be a muscle bound, tracking machine. A true athelete.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: maxwell on January 03, 2010, 07:37:00 PM
Great job Oskar-  did  he worry the deer a lot when he found the doe?  I had a wiener dog (easier to spell) and when he found dead deer he was crazed and would attack the tail and butt area,  eyes rolled in the back of his head and ready to kill anyone who touched his deer.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: DEATHMASTER on January 03, 2010, 07:57:00 PM
The dog gets a Scooby snack. Great job.

Tim
DEATHMASTER
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Ryan Rothhaar on January 03, 2010, 09:16:00 PM
To answer a few of the questions:

Certainly the cold could have slowed things down - it was around 10F that night.  The chest cavity was pretty full of clotted blood, but the Snuffer holes through the lungs did not have the red/slimy/clotty appearence that they usually do - more of a pink, bloodshot appearance - due, I guess, to not hitting a major artery.  There was an obvious 3-blade hole through both lungs.  The broadhead was definitely sharp - I only carry 3 sharp heads and a judo in my quiver, and I touched up the heads that day.  The entry hole was definitely sealed off (the hole through the fat layer was offset to the hole through the meat layer, and there was an inch or more of fat over the ribs) and the arrow zipped right through.  Having the hole through the fat and muscle layers offset is pretty unusual with a large 3 blade head, in my experience.  I didn't skin out the exit hole.  I think the doe died on the run after I jumped her or shortly after as there was no bed nearby, I think if the coyotes had killed her they would have run her farther.

The pup loves to pull hair out of the rear end of deer he finds, he started on the faces, but we got him broke from that.  I have jumped 2 wounded deer with him when tracking and he goes nuts then - doesn't bark while blood tracking or on a jumped deer (which is proper according to the breed standard) but pulls HARD and whines.  As far as cold goes, so far, so good.  He has tracked up to 4 hours in a night at below 20F temps without problems.  The breeder said that temperature tolerance will have more to do with prey drive in a tracking dog than size or coat type.  We had to search around quite a while to find a hunting bred Dachshund, and it was worth the trouble.

R
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: oneshot-onekill on January 03, 2010, 09:25:00 PM
Ryan....great story...congrats on finding the deer...oskar looks like a real good investment...plus having had bird dogs, I enjoyed watching the dogs work more than the shooting....mind telling where you were able to find oskar? enquiring minds would like to know...
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: FerretWYO on January 03, 2010, 11:34:00 PM
I have had the oppertunity to use a tracking dog for blood trailing one time. It was last year at solana. I made a double lung hit and that deer went almost three hundred yards. A deer running that fast on the texas dirt makes it hard to see blood. The dogs those guys had there were awesome. It is a good investment where leagal that is for sure.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Bill Kissner on January 03, 2010, 11:48:00 PM
Great job Ryan! Tracking will certainly get in your blood. Looks like you have a great dog in the making. They only get better and better with age.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: yamaharider on January 04, 2010, 02:26:00 AM
Thanks for sharing a great story.  Great dog you have there.  I like how you stuck to it inspite of others giving up. Have to follow our gut feelings sometimes. And I agree, that shot looked like she should have gone down much sooner. But, great ending anyway!!
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: americanhunter7 on January 04, 2010, 02:58:00 AM
Congrats Ryan on your deer! What part of IN are you from? Just curious in case I need a tracker down south....Give your pup an extra treat for enduring the cold and helping you find a beautiful trophy!
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Ryan Rothhaar on January 04, 2010, 08:06:00 AM
OS-OK - I'll drop you a PM with breeder info.

Americanhunter - I'm in Reelsville (near Cloverdale) and my wife and I will be doing tracking on-call next year for West/Southwest Indiana and possibly IL in the Terre Haute area.  Send me a PM with your Email address and I'll forward contact information to you.

R
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: BUFF on January 04, 2010, 09:29:00 AM
congrats on finding her.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: straitera on January 04, 2010, 09:51:00 AM
Good story. Way to hang in there. Great dog!
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Morning Star on January 04, 2010, 11:45:00 AM
QuoteI can only attribute this deer living so long (around 5h) and travelling so far (approx 800 yards) to very bad luck in evidently not striking a major vessel/artery in the back of the lungs.
 
The chest wall wounds must have sealed over pretty well. Which is pretty suprising with that Snuffer.   If the blood loss wasn't enough, the sucking chest wounds should have collapsed her lungs and finished her quicker than that.   Definitely some bad luck Ryan.  Nice job with the dog!
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: IndianaBowman on January 04, 2010, 12:01:00 PM
Congrats Ryan on sticking with the trail. Sounds like Oskar is a great dog!

We unfortunately lost our little beagle Buddy and are thinking of getting a new dog. How is Oskar as a house pet?

Guys, let me tell you that when Ryan sharpens a Rothhaar Snuffer it is SHARP! He has plenty of testosterone and can grow arm hair, he doesn't have any for good reason!
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: KentuckyTJ on January 04, 2010, 12:18:00 PM
Awesome stuff way to go Oskar.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: riivioristo on January 04, 2010, 02:17:00 PM
Those little fellows (Dachshunds) have a great big ego and lots of character ! Big dog in compressed pakage! Congratulations for fine job for both of you !
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Ryan Rothhaar on January 04, 2010, 08:46:00 PM
Yep, Terry, makes a dandy housedog (except he DEMANDS to sleep in the bed!)

R
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Joe D on January 04, 2010, 09:42:00 PM
Ryan
Love those weiner dogs! That one appears to be a smooth coat. I've been researching the possibility of buying one. Where did you get Oskar from?
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: scbowhnter on January 04, 2010, 09:54:00 PM
Great story, especially with the happy ending. A buddy of mine used to have a yellow lab that was just great. Unfortunately we lost her a couple of years ago and miss her in the worst way. She just took to it naturally without any specific training.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Steve O on January 04, 2010, 10:03:00 PM
Thanks Ryan, that is very interesting and great information.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: WVeer on January 04, 2010, 10:12:00 PM
It's a nice feeling when you recover a animal after a hard blood trail.  You did a great job and have a good looking dachshund.  My Dad has a black and tan that looks like Oskar. His is named Oliver but was almost named Oscar.  We have a wire hair dachshund named Fletcher.  They're great dogs with keen noses.  Our's likes to dumpster dive in the kitchen trash when he thinks no one is around. I need to get him started on more nobel tasks like blood trailing.  Congrats again.
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: Robert Honaker on January 04, 2010, 11:03:00 PM
You ay have already stated this, if so sorry I missed it..but were you on the ground or in a tree stand?
Thanks
Robert
Title: Re: Tracking Education - a lesson from a wiener dog (with pics)
Post by: fishone on January 05, 2010, 08:13:00 AM
Ryan,

I'll board your dog for you this coming year from Oct. thru.  Jan. I'll bring him back to you when ever you need him to track. Great looking dog plus a great tracker. Thanks for the photos and the story. Some mature deer just have a will to live.

Craig